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    S-300V Army SAM System

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    rambo54

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    Re: S-300V Army SAM System

    Post  rambo54 on Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:50 am

    As I said, I'm not able to read russian language.
    Does someone know why we find a 48N6E drawing on a S-300V4 schematic?



    Maybe 48N6E in fact is this mysterious 400km missile which is also used in S-300V4 (9A83!) now?
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    max steel

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    Re: S-300V Army SAM System

    Post  max steel on Mon Mar 30, 2015 1:29 pm

    Even I can't read russian . Embarassed
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    Stealthflanker

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    Re: S-300V Army SAM System

    Post  Stealthflanker on Mon Mar 30, 2015 1:42 pm

    I can't read Russian either but i'm pretty sure S-300V doesn't use 48N6 missile family.
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    GarryB

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    Re: S-300V Army SAM System

    Post  GarryB on Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:30 am

    Whoever put that infographic together screwed up.

    The S-300V series is the Russian Army family of long range SAMs, which is not related to the S-300P missiles used by the Russian Air Force and Air Defence Forces, or the related S-300F used by the Russian Navy.

    That is to say the Navy and Air Force missiles (S-300F and S-300P) are related and externally look the same, but the S-300V looks totally different and has a completely separate family tree.

    Likely the person making this infographic found out the latest model S-300V4 has a range of 400km and assumed that was because it uses the 400km S-300 missile.

    It does not.

    Note in cyrillic C is S and B is V in English so C-300B4 is S-300V4.


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    Viktor

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    Re: S-300V Army SAM System

    Post  Viktor on Fri Apr 03, 2015 4:09 pm

    rambo54 wrote:Does someone has an idea where the new S-300V4 garrison has been established? (Sochi area?)

    Only this ....


    Firing drills featuring hypersonic S-300V4 missile system to be held in Russia’s south

    At the end of last year, the S-300V4 air defense missile system entered service in the Southern Military District force grouping

    rambo54

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    Re: S-300V Army SAM System

    Post  rambo54 on Sun Apr 12, 2015 10:56 am

    George1 wrote:

    Almaz-Antei Air Defense Concern has delivered three batteries of the new S-300V4 system to the Russian military, which expects to deploy the new system in the Western Military District, according to a source in the Ministry of Defense.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20150305/1019089902.html#ixzz3TVtnoAv6

    I always thought it would be a "southern military district" - now it is a "western district" which makes more sense to me.
    So it could be 202nd AD BGD Naro-Fominsk or 43rd AD BGD Znamensk.

    A S-400 Unit is usually organized in an AirDefence RGT consisting of 2 or 3 Battalions (Batteries) with 8 launchers each.

    May I asked whow a S-300V unit is organized?
    Here sometimes we speak about "Divison" or "Brigade" and sometimes "Battery".
    What is the basic structure (e.g. one BGD with 3 Batteries?)?
    And how many launchers of 9A83/9A83 do we have in a Battery?

    Thanks for any Info
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    Viktor

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    Re: S-300V Army SAM System

    Post  Viktor on Sun Apr 12, 2015 4:22 pm

    rambo54 wrote:A S-400 Unit is usually organized in an AirDefence RGT consisting of 2 or 3 Battalions (Batteries) with 8 launchers each.


    S-300P


    S-400 battery: shooting radar with its command post (92N6), up to 12 TEL units + search radar (usually 96L6)) -  can be strengthen accodring to evaluations + decoys + cammo nets
    S-400 regiment: (up to 8 S-400 batteries) + regimental command post (55K6) + regimental search radar (91N6) + ECM + Passive systems of detection + SHORADs + decoys + etc
    S-400 brigade: (2 S-400 regiments) + brigade level command post (Baikal-1M) + SHORADs + decoys + ECM units + cammo nets + passive detection systems .. etc

    now these are only units but they are highly developed and integrated within all other units forming integrated air defense


    rambo54 wrote:May I asked whow a S-300V unit is organized?
    Here sometimes we speak about "Divison" or "Brigade" and sometimes "Battery".
    What is the basic structure (e.g. one BGD with 3 Batteries?)?
    And how many launchers of 9A83/9A83 do we have in a Battery?

    Thanks for any Info

    S-300V

    S-300V4 battery: (non-existant military unit ): consists of shooting radar + 2x9A82 + 4x9A83 + 1x9A84 + 2x9A85 + up to 48 missile reload
    S-300V4 regiment: 4 x S-300V4 battery + regimental command post + search radar + sector radar
    S-300V4 brigade: 3 x S-300V4 regiment + brigade level command post + ECM + passive detection + decoys + cammo nets + SHORAD + additional radar troops + etc

    Now this info is for a max capacity of batteries/regiments/brigades

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    Re: S-300V Army SAM System

    Post  rambo54 on Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:34 pm

    Viktor wrote:
    rambo54 wrote:A S-400 Unit is usually organized in an AirDefence RGT consisting of 2 or 3 Battalions (Batteries) with 8 launchers each.


    S-300P


    S-400 battery: shooting radar with its command post (92N6), up to 12 TEL units + search radar (usually 96L6)) -  can be strengthen accodring to evaluations + decoys + cammo nets
    S-400 regiment: (up to 8 S-400 batteries) + regimental command post (55K6) + regimental search radar (91N6) + ECM + Passive systems of detection + SHORADs + decoys + etc
    S-400 brigade: (2 S-400 regiments) + brigade level command post (Baikal-1M) + SHORADs + decoys + ECM units + cammo nets + passive detection systems .. etc

    now these are only units but they are highly developed and integrated within all other units forming integrated air defense


    rambo54 wrote:May I asked whow a S-300V unit is organized?
    Here sometimes we speak about "Divison" or "Brigade" and sometimes "Battery".
    What is the basic structure (e.g. one BGD with 3 Batteries?)?
    And how many launchers of 9A83/9A83 do we have in a Battery?

    Thanks for any Info

    S-300V

    S-300V4 battery: (non-existant military unit ): consists of shooting radar + 2x9A82 + 4x9A83 + 1x9A84 + 2x9A85 + up to 48 missile reload
    S-300V4 regiment: 4 x S-300V4 battery + regimental command post + search radar + sector radar
    S-300V4 brigade: 3 x S-300V4 regiment + brigade level command post + ECM + passive detection + decoys + cammo nets + SHORAD + additional radar troops + etc

    Now this info is for a max capacity of batteries/regiments/brigades

    Thank you very much!
    So in the last posts of this thread we got the info that either "two divisional sets" or "three batteries" got S-300V4 in the "western military district".
    A single regiment would have 4 batteries - not just three. And what do they mean by "divisional sets"?
    Any ideas?
    Thanks in advance
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    Viktor

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    Re: S-300V Army SAM System

    Post  Viktor on Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:05 pm

    rambo54 wrote:Thank you very much!
    So in the last posts of this thread we got the info that either "two divisional sets" or "three batteries" got S-300V4 in the "western military district".
    A single regiment would have 4 batteries - not just three. And what do they mean by "divisional sets"?
    Any ideas?
    Thanks in advance


    And in this regard I made a mistake. I should have said "up to 4 batteries" in regards to S-300V4 regiment.

    Nowdays when the S-400 is just starting to come out in decent numbers and S-300V4 delivery is at its begginings it makes more sense to make a mix of new and

    old (modernized) system forming regiments and brigades because new systems will significantly increase combat efficiencies of the older systems too.

    In this regard I have been told that Russia actually produced higher number of 92N6 shooting radars/command post than the number of S-400 batteries exists today distributing them

    to an older defense systems but I could never verify such claim.

    On the other question. Divisional set can be regarded as a smallest functional unit in a PVO sense. Because of what you have situation where

    S-300PMU/400 battery divisional set equals battery but S-300V divisional set equals regimental streingth because smaller operational S-300V unit is a regiment not battery although

    journalist tend to call them battalions also. S-300P/400 battalion equals regimental set and the brigade is the same in both cases.

    Now strength of each S-300 PVO unit is subjected to change in relation to the emerging threats thus making even brigade level sets consisting from just 4 batteries possible.

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    Re: S-300V Army SAM System

    Post  rambo54 on Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:42 pm

    So "two divisional sets" could mean they re-equipped two regiments? And the statement in the other source "three batteries" could mean that they re-equipped one regiment (with 3 Batts) - right?
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    Viktor

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    Re: S-300V Army SAM System

    Post  Viktor on Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:48 pm

    rambo54 wrote:So "two divisional sets" could mean they re-equipped two regiments? And the statement in the other source "three batteries" could mean that they re-equipped one regiment (with 3 Batts) - right?

    Yes and no. With 3 batteries you can equip a newly formed regiment (consisting of two batteries) and with the one left you can add to some of the existing formation and still be able

    to said you have re-equipped another regiment with the new S-300V4 which would not be entirely true but still not entirely untrue Very Happy ... and than comes uneducated journalists

    with their writings like they are reporting from some street market so only by comparing lots of different sources on the same matter and using logic (which is your strongest weapon

    in this chaos) you will be able to come to some reasonable conclusions. Also there is a question of intelligence and counter-intelligence besides standard Russian practice to complicate

    things for any observer.

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    Re: S-300V Army SAM System

    Post  rambo54 on Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:55 pm

    Thanks Victor!


    Last edited by rambo54 on Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:23 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: S-300V Army SAM System

    Post  rambo54 on Wed Apr 15, 2015 5:28 pm

    I’ve two sources now which indicate that the S-300V4 deployment in the “western district” is in fact the elite unit 202 AD BGD at Naro-Fominsk

    Frst source: “warfare.be”.



    Second source: Information from an eyewhitness who observed the new 9S32M (the only equipment which differs externaly from the original one) at the perimeter of this garrison this spring.



    Last edited by rambo54 on Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Cyberspec

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    Re: S-300V Army SAM System

    Post  Cyberspec on Sun Apr 26, 2015 7:50 am

    Unsuccessful test of a modernised missile for the Antey-2500 at Plesetsk

    Missile fell shortly after launch from the Plesetsk cosmodrome on Wednesday , April 22, reports "Interfax" referring to the press service of the Almaz Antey concern. During the start-up the anti-aircraft missiles deviated from the desired path and activated the self destruct mechanism. The test cycle will continue in the future.

    http://rbase.new-factoria.ru/news/neudachnyy-zapusk-modernizirovannoy-rakety-sistemy-antey-2500
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    George1

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    Re: S-300V Army SAM System

    Post  George1 on Fri Jun 05, 2015 11:48 pm

    2 contracts till now 22 chassis of S-300V are under construction for the Egyptian armed forces and 40 for Russian army. 80-90 more from a third contract according to this article

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1329244.html
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    Re: S-300V Army SAM System

    Post  George1 on Thu Jul 02, 2015 1:11 pm

    "Almaz - Antey" Defense Ministry handed divisional set of S-300V4


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    rambo54

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    Re: S-300V Army SAM System

    Post  rambo54 on Fri Jul 03, 2015 11:41 am

    George1 wrote:"Almaz - Antey" Defense Ministry handed divisional set of S-300V4

    seems to be 48N6 or 40N6 and not S-300V stuff
    http://cdn11.img22.ria.ru/images/100335/53/1003355397.jpg
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    franco

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    Re: S-300V Army SAM System

    Post  franco on Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:18 pm

    rambo54 wrote:
    I’ve two sources now which indicate that the S-300V4 deployment in the “western district” is in fact the elite unit 202 AD BGD at Naro-Fominsk

    Frst source: “warfare.be”.



    Second source: Information from an eyewhitness who observed the new 9S32M (the only equipment which differs externaly from the original one) at the perimeter of this garrison this spring.

    Here are the known deployment sites

    Deployment

    6 Deployment sites 2015:
    --Yushno-Sachalinsk (Sachalin): 31st AD BGD?   (46.880575° 142.787908°)
    --Birobidzhan (Jewish Autonomous Oblast): 1724th AD RGT (ex 203rd AD BGD) (garrison 48.725628° 132.971802° - launch site 48.719151° 132,973342°)
    --Chebarkul (Tscheljabinsk): 28th AD BGD (1722nd AD RGT?) (55.002911° 60.371375°)
    --Naro-Fominsk (Moscow): 202nd AD BGD: since 2015 S-300V4 (55.408483° 36.741270°)
    --Znamensk (Kaliningrad): 43rd AD BGD (1545th AD RGT?) (garrison 54.602107° 21.233617° - launch site 54.601038° 21.238220°)
    --Gyumri (Armenia): 988th AD RGT (40.761287° 43.956965°)

    Previous locations (use History Layer in google earth):
    --Strugi Krasnye / Vladimirskyy Lager (Pskov):1544th AD RGT (58.206718° 29.061801°)
    --Tavrichanka (Primorskij): 8th AD BGD? (43.358464° 131.863060°)
    -- Pervomayskiy (Orenburg): 1722nd AD BGD (51.597513° 55.013695°) – changed location to Chebarkul and became 28th AD BGD

    It seems to be pointless to discuss Brigade or Regiment structure. This differs in the past for some S-300V units.
    The essential thing is that there are “Big Units” (you may call them Brigade or Regiment level) which consist of “smaller units” (you may call them Battalion or Battery level).
    The most garrisons (in google earth) do not suggest a full 4 Batt contingent. Many of them obviously have only 2 firing units (much like S-400 units)

    S-300V unit (= Brigade or Regiment level = big unit)

    Target detection unit:
    9S457 command post
    9S15 all-round surveillance radar
    9S19 sector surveillance radar

    Missile & technical support unit:
    -maintenance and repair equipment for all system components, as well as a missile integrated computer assisted functional testing unit
    -missile TLC (transport launch container) short term storage and transportation facilities , as well as a rigging equipment set for missiles loading/unloading
    -training aids

    S-300V firing unit (= Battalion or Battery  level  = sub unit)

    Up to 4 SAM firing units – (Russian Army often use only 2 firing units in each of the big units)
    Each firing unit has usually 6 TELs: This can be 9A83 or 9A82 only, or might be a mix of 9A83/9A82 TELs and
    3-6 LLVs 9A85 or 9A84, or a mix of 9A85/9A84 LLVs –
    Typical mix:
    4 TEL 9A83 with four 9M83 missile tubes each
    2 corresponding launcher-loader vehicles 9A85 with four 9M83 missile tubes each
    2 TEL 9A82 with two 9M82 missile tubes each
    1 corresponding launcher-loader vehicle 9A84 with two 9M82 missile tubes each
    Each launcher has at least the same amount of missles as reload

    P.S.: If someone has more information about the correct unit designations please let me know

    1. Have seen this as the 312th     Yushno-Sachalinsk (Sachalin): 31st AD BGD?   (46.880575° 142.787908°)
    2. Firing unit org is correct in regards to launch vehicles. This unit western equivalent would be a battery but is a battalion in Russian terminology. Usual translation calls it a division.
    3. My understanding is that there will be 20 of these spread amongst 10 Brigades or Regiments upon modernization. Probably some mixing with Buk-2 to form AD Brigades.
    4. A brigade used to represent 4 subunits while a regiment represented 2-3. It also can represent whither or not the unit is a mixed equipment or only of one type.
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    Viktor

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    Re: S-300V Army SAM System

    Post  Viktor on Fri Jul 03, 2015 8:59 pm

    Nice thumbsup


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    Re: S-300V Army SAM System

    Post  nastle77 on Sat Aug 01, 2015 8:00 pm

    How many of the S-300 family launchers were operational by the end of the cold war in 1990 ?
    DOes anybody have a source for it ?
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    Re: S-300V Army SAM System

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sat Aug 01, 2015 8:25 pm

    nastle77 wrote:How many of the S-300 family launchers were operational by the end of the cold war in 1990 ?
    DOes anybody have a source for it ?

    Franco might know.
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    Viktor

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    Re: S-300V Army SAM System

    Post  Viktor on Sat Aug 01, 2015 11:05 pm

    5 brigades where introduced prior to SU breakup. Now Russia plans to form 9 S-300V4 brigades by 2020.

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    Re: S-300V Army SAM System

    Post  nastle77 on Sun Aug 02, 2015 12:03 am

    Viktor wrote:5 brigades where introduced prior to SU breakup. Now Russia plans to form 9 S-300V4 brigades by 2020.

    Thanks how many launchers will be in 5 brigades ?
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    Viktor

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    Re: S-300V Army SAM System

    Post  Viktor on Sun Aug 02, 2015 12:20 am

    nastle77 wrote:
    Viktor wrote:5 brigades where introduced prior to SU breakup. Now Russia plans to form 9 S-300V4 brigades by 2020.

    Thanks how many launchers will be in 5 brigades ?

    Up to 250 ready to fire launchers + up to 120 reload nearby.
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    franco

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    Re: S-300V Army SAM System

    Post  franco on Sun Aug 02, 2015 12:42 am

    nastle77 wrote:
    Viktor wrote:5 brigades where introduced prior to SU breakup. Now Russia plans to form 9 S-300V4 brigades by 2020.

    Thanks how many launchers will be in 5 brigades ?

    As per usual, Victor and I agree to disagree Wink

    36 including the load launchers per brigade.

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