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    Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

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    Russian Patriot
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    Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  Russian Patriot on Tue Jul 21, 2009 7:36 pm

    Project 1164  Atlant
    Krasina/Slava class
    Guided Missile Cruiser
    The Slava class was designed as a surface strike ship with some anti-air and ASW capability. Falling midway between the massive 'Kirov' battle-cruiser and 'Sovremenny' class destroyers, this smaller contemporary of the Kirov may have been intended as a less-expensive complement to the larger ships. Slavas were built at the same yard that built the 'Kara' Class cruisers, and the hull appears to be a stretched version of the earlier design.

    The sixteen SS-N-12 Sandbox anti-ship missiles are mounted in four pairs on either side of the superstructure, giving the ship a distinctive appearance. Many sources credit the Slava with the ability to carry nuclear armed SA-N-6 surface-to-air missiles, and 21-inch nuclear torpedoes, in addition to the SS-N-12. Soviet sources denied that the SA-N-6 missiles on the ship was even nuclear capable. They also indicated that the crane aboard the ship was used for handling boats, and not for loading or reloading SA-N-6 missiles, a procedure accomplished only at portside.

    Initially designated Black Com1 by Western intelligence and subsequently the Krasina class , the first Slava class cruiser became operational in 1983, and by 1990 three were in the fleet, with the third beginning sea trials in August 1989. Some sources suggest that the Soviet Navy intended to build as many as 21 units of this class, which would have enabled the Soviets to replace the Kynda and Kresta classes as they retired in the 1990s. But such plans were not evident in actual Cold War era building activity. The low priority attached to this class was evident from the unusually long construction period of the units completed by the end of the Cold War, and the fact that only four units were laid down. The design is said to be marred by large quantities of flammable material and poor damage-control capabilities. As of 2004 there were only 3 ships of this type available in the Russian Navy.

    Moskva (ex-Slava)
    The Moskva (ex-Slava), which had been in refit at the Nikolayev yard since December 1990, remained undelivered to the Russian Black Sea Fleet through the end of the millenium. The Moskva (ex-Slava), which had been in refit at the Nikolayev yard since 1990-91, remained undelivered to the Russian Black Sea Fleet through the end of 1998. The Moskva was expected to return to service to replace the Admiral Golokov as the flagship of the Black Sea fleet. No projected date for completion of this much-delayed work was known. The Moskva was finally returned to service in April 2000, replacing the Admiral Golokov as the flagship of the Black Sea fleet. The "Moskva" was finally re-commissioned with hull number "121" after its overhaul in 2000.

    In mid-2008 the official newspaper of the Russian Black Sea Fleet (BSF) reported that the large anti-submarine ship (BPK) “Ochakov”, which has just finished repairs, could become the flagship of the BSF instead of the cruiser “Moskva”. “This project 1134B BPK (Kara class), designed more than 40 years ago, had entered the 21st Century with a millennial overhaul with the aim of extending its service life 15-20 years. This is an unprecedented event for the fleet…” Intermediate repairs began at the end of the 1980s, however, with the breakup of the Soviet Union, they were never finished. Additionally a serious fire in 1993 significantly complicated the technical condition of the “Ochakov”.

    Marshal Ustinov [ex-Lobov]
    The second unit, the Marshal Ustinov, was commissioned with the Northern Fleet in 1986 - initially with hull number "070", later number "088" and finally number "055". The Marshal Ustinov may also be laid up in refit, though sources are in disagreement on this point. Ustinov was in overhaul in the Baltic since 1994; she was previously assigned to the Northern Fleet but may not return there.

    Under a December 1996 agreement China purchased two Russian Sovremenny-class destroyers. With the Russian Navy's consent, Severnaya Verf used some of the money to repair the Large ASW ship Admiral Levchenko ($98 million), Large ASW ship Severomorsk ($33 million), and cruiser Marshal Ustinov ($54 million) for the Northern Fleet. As of 2004 the latter had completed its repairs and became operational once again.

    Varyag (ex-Chervona Ukraina)
    The third unit was commissioned to the Pacific Fleet in 1989 under the name "Chervona Ukraina" - in 199x it was renamed 011 Varyag, when this name formerly given to the Pr 1143.6 heavy aviation cruiser(sister ship to the "Kuznetsov") was released after the cancellation of further aviation cruiser development. As of 2002 it was reported that the Varyag was in "Reduced Manning" status, and entered the Dalzavod Shipyard the same year for repairs. Varyag had been in reduced operating status with a caretaker crew since her arrival in the Pacific in 1990.

    Ukrayina (ex-Admiral Flota Lobov, ex-Lobov)
    The fourth unit was initially expected to be launched in 1990, though in practice this vessel remained incomplete as of late 1999, having transferred to the Ukrainian Navy. On 21 February 1998 the government of Ukraine announced plans to complete the fourth Slava-class cruiser [ordered for Russia as the Admiral Flota Lobov] as its new fleet flagship, the Ukrayina. The ship was to have been completed for the Ukraine Navy in November 2000, but lack of funds slowed work to the point that by early 2001 a new completion date was projected.

    Oktyabrskskaya Revolutsia (ex-Rossiya)
    Oktyabrskskaya Revolutsia was originally named Rossiya, but renamed on 30th December 1987. Work was apparantly never started and the ship was cancelled on 4th October 1990. Some sources suggested that as many as two additional units began construction before the end of the Cold War, but the status of these hulls is unclear, and there is no indication of plans to complete them [should they in fact remain in existence].

    Admiral Gorshkov
    Work on Admiral Gorshkov was apparantly never started and the ship was cancelled on 4th October 1990.


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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  Russian Patriot on Fri Jul 24, 2009 1:37 am

    Slava class pictures:







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    Russian Navy denies reports of damage to Black Sea Fleet flagship

    Post  Russian Patriot on Sun Sep 13, 2009 7:22 pm

    Russian Navy denies reports of damage to Black Sea Fleet flagship
    RIA Novosti

    11/09/200900:21

    MOSCOW, September 11 (RIA Novosti) - The Russian Navy has denied media speculation that the Moskva missile cruiser, the flagship of the Black Sea Fleet, needed repairs at a shipyard after a recent incident on board.

    The Navy earlier acknowledged that smoke filled one of the auxiliary compartments of the warship on September 7, but said its source was quickly found and contained. No one was hurt in the incident.

    "Several media sources speculated, citing different sources, that the Moskva missile cruiser of the Black Sea Fleet will be sent from Sevastopol to a shipyard in Nikolayev [Ukraine] for repairs after the alleged damage. This information is untrue. The Moskva cruiser remains ready for combat," the Navy's press service said late on Thursday.

    "The crew of the warship will fix the faulty systems at its current location at a berth [in the Sevastopol naval base] within a few days," the press service said in a statement.

    The Moskva is a Slava-class missile cruiser designed as a surface strike ship with some anti-aircraft and ASW capability.

    The ship has 16 SS-N-12 Sandbox nuclear-capable supersonic anti-ship missiles, mounted in four pairs on each side.

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2009/russia-090911-rianovosti05.htm

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    Ukraine's ex-PM proposes finishing missile cruiser with Russia!

    Post  Russian Patriot on Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:57 pm

    Ukraine's ex-PM proposes finishing missile cruiser with Russia

    RIA Novosti

    17:59 19/09/2009 KIEV, September 19 (RIA Novosti) - Ukraine's former premier, Viktor Yanukovych, who now heads an opposition party, proposed on Saturday finishing the construction of a missile cruiser stalled for almost 15 years now jointly with Russia.

    Construction of the Slava-class Admiral Lobov cruiser (Project 1164) was launched in 1984 at the Nikolayev shipyard in Ukraine but stalled at the final stage, when it was more than 90 % ready, in late 1980s due to a sharp reduction in military expenditures. The cruiser was renamed the Ukraina in 1992.

    "There is a possibility to finish the [Ukraina missile] cruiser jointly with Russia... Provided there is a relevant political decision between Ukraine and Russia this issue will be solved," Yanukovych said when visiting the shipyard.

    Yanukovych and the ex-Soviet state's incumbent prime minister, Yulia Tymoshenko, lead the opinion polls ahead of presidential elections scheduled for January 17.

    Oleksandr Kuzmuk, a former Ukrainian defense minister and member of the Yanukovych-led Party of Regions, said most of the vessel's systems currently need modernization.

    According to data from last October, about $30 million is needed to complete its construction.

    Slava-class cruisers were designed as surface strike ships with some anti-aircraft and ASW capability. They carry 16 SS-N-12 Sandbox nuclear-capable supersonic anti-ship missiles, with launches mounted in four pairs on either side of the superstructure.

    In addition, the cruiser is reportedly armed with 64 SA-N-6 Grumble long-range surface-to-air missiles (SAM) and 40 SA-N-4 Gecko short-range SAMs.

    Russia has three Slava-class cruisers in service with its Navy.



    http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2009/09/mil-090919-rianovosti03.htm

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  Vladimir79 on Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:29 pm

    Uh, the thing has been rusting there for the last 25 years. Scrap the piece of junk.

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    Russian missile cruiser arrives in Vladivostok

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Dec 02, 2009 8:10 am

    A task force from the Russian Pacific Fleet led by the missile cruiser Varyag has returned to Russia's Far Eastern port of Vladivostok after a visit to Singapore.

    The group, which set out from the Russian Far East port on October 27 on a month-long tour-of-duty, also includes the Fotiy Krylov salvage tug and the Pechenga tanker. It arrived in Singapore on November 11 and left a week later.

    A Pacific fleet spokesman said no incidents were reported during the journey.

    "All the seamen are in good health, the equipment and mechanisms operated smoothly," the source said.

    Varyag is a Slava-class missile cruiser, which entered service with the Pacific Fleet in 1990. In April this year the warship led a group of 21 foreign naval vessels participating in a parade to mark the 60th anniversary of China's Navy off the coast of the Chinese city of Qingdao.

    VLADIVOSTOK, December 2 (RIA Novosti)

    RIAN

    Good news. Cannot wait for the procurement of the other cruisers as well.

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    Russia will get Ukraine cruiser for FREE

    Post  Vladimir79 on Fri Jan 21, 2011 4:37 am

    Russia will get Ukraine cruiser for FREE

    Russian leadership has at last made up in one of the most protracted negotiation of weapons processes. , Told "Academy" a senior Ministry of Defense has already decided that Moscow would not buy from Kiev unfinished missile cruiser "Ukraine" at any price. The only option - his donation of Russia.

    Missile cruiser "Ukraine" (the former Admiral Lobov, "Project 1164" Atlas ") was founded in 1984. In 1996, its completion has been discontinued due to lack of funding, then the Ukrainians tried to resume it, but in 2001, finally abandoned. Willingness cruiser "Ukraine" - 95%. The content of the unfinished ship costs about $ 1 million a year. All in all, he, according to various estimates, "pulls" on the $ 1 billion.

    Negotiating the sale of an unfinished missile cruiser Russia has been going on for several years. His wanted to buy the former mayor of Moscow Yury Luzhkov and called "St. Petersburg"; it would pay for the "gas debts"; develop various projects for the establishment of joint consortia on completion of the ship. But the achievement of any arrangement prevented the bitter political confrontation between the two countries when President Viktor Yushchenko. In addition, the Ukrainians kept trying to take Moscow for the ship to the max.

    With the arrival of Viktor Yanukovych has changed drastically. Already in May last year, he said that Russia may finish the Ukrainian cruiser at his own expense. And in July, Parliament annulled the decision on conferring titles cruiser "Ukraine", as the ship will not be included in the Naval Forces of Ukraine. After that the commander in chief of the Russian Navy Admiral Vladimir Vysotsky said that command of the fleet is exploring the possibility of purchase of an unfinished missile cruiser "Ukraine".

    All this time negotiations on the fate of "Ukraine" took place behind closed doors, there were fierce disputes about the price. But as stated by the "Academy" a senior official, now everything is settled, and the Ukrainian side informed. Russia will take "Ukraine" just for nothing, not even at the price of scrap metal. And only after that would be considered different options for participation of Ukrainian companies in the completion of the ship.

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  Hoof on Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:12 am

    Nice article Vlad ! It's nice seeing a weapon getting a second chance, and not ended up being scrapped for metal... They should name it Cruiser "Kireev" - after me Wink

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  Vladimir79 on Fri Jan 21, 2011 3:24 pm

    Hoof wrote:Nice article Vlad ! It's nice seeing a weapon getting a second chance, and not ended up being scrapped for metal... They should name it Cruiser "Kireev" - after me Wink

    It will likely be renamed St. Petersburg as the Mayor of Moskva wants.

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  Viktor on Fri Jan 21, 2011 4:22 pm

    With 3 modernized Kirov class, 4 modernized Slava class and modernized Kuznjecov Russia is back to restore former SSSR glory. Very Happy

    I dont think its bad idea to spend money on its modernization given the time Russia will take until next ship of that class is designed and still with few replacement

    it is still one of the Worlds most powerfull.

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  Vladimir79 on Fri Jan 21, 2011 4:57 pm

    They say it will cost $1 billion to restore... it will be quite a bit more than that.

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  Viktor on Fri Jan 21, 2011 5:35 pm

    Is it posible to redesign Slava class using existing blueprints if they even exist?

    Think it would be cheaper than to start all over again from scratch.

    Btw I think its more expensive to refurbish old one.

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  GarryB on Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:08 am

    If that billion is spend on Russian parts and Russian Labour who cares?

    It means the Russian Navy gets a big ship and if they made it from scratch they would make it as small as they could to make it as cheap as they could.

    This way they will get a much better ship and the money spent will go to the shipyards so they can improve their skills on an old boat.

    Any major improvements they make could be applied to other in service boats of that type.

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  Viktor on Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:52 am

    And besides modernizing Slava class with new equpment with VLS S-400 / P-1000 would make this combat unit one of worlds most powerful.

    Who knows when will Russia design stealth version of 13 000 ship, so why not in the meantime have one non-stealthy but with powerful armaments.

    Someone needs to protect those Mistrals and modernized Slava would be best suited.

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    Missile cruiser Marshal Ustinov may reinforce Russian Pacific Fleet in 2013 -Navy

    Post  Russian Patriot on Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:08 am

    Missile cruiser Marshal Ustinov may reinforce Russian Pacific Fleet in 2013 -Navy

    The Russian missile cruiser Marshal Ustinov may reinforce Russia's Pacific Fleet in 2013 after repairs, a high-placed official of the Russian Navy said on Sunday.

    "In two years, the cruiser may be transferred from Severomorsk to Vladivostok to reinforce the grouping of the Pacific Fleet's surface ships," the admiral said, adding that the Navy's main headquarters was considering this possibility, although a final decision had not yet been made.

    The Marshal Ustinov, a Slava-class missile cruiser, was launched in 1982 and commissioned with the Russian Northern Fleet in 1986.

    "Now the cruiser is preparing for medium repairs in the Northern Fleet," the admiral said, adding that the cruiser's transfer to the Russian Far East was due to the quick ageing of the Pacific Fleet's warships and the need for this kind of ships to support the combat stability of the grouping of the fleet's strategic and multipurpose nuclear submarines.

    The Marshal Ustinov cruiser has been designed as a surface strike ship with some anti-air and ASW capability. It is fitted with sixteen SS-N-12 Sandbox nuclear-capable supersonic anti-ship missiles, which are mounted in four pairs on either side of the superstructure.

    In addition, the cruiser reportedly carries 64 SA-N-6 Grumble long-range surface-to-air missiles (SAM) and 40 SA-N-4 Gecko short-range SAMs.

    NATO experts had dubbed Russian combat ships of this class "the killer of aircraft carriers," as it can carry 1,000 kg of high-explosives, or a tactical nuclear warhead, out to a range of 300 nautical miles.

    MOSCOW, March 27 (RIA Novosti)

    http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20110327/163230100.html

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  George1 on Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:35 pm

    Any news about admiral lobov slava class crusiser fate?

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  TR1 on Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:48 pm

    Yep. Still rusting in dock. Looks ok inside actually, there was some photos in 2011, but it ain't gonna be completed anytime soon. Or ever.

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  George1 on Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:10 pm

    What kind of new systems could involve a future modernization of slava class cruisers?

    Current armament:
    Anti-ship Missiles: 16(8x2) P-1000
    Long Range SAM: 64(8x8) S-300F
    Point Defense: 40(2x20) Osa-M
    Artillery Guns: 1x2 AK-130 130mm
    CIWS: 6x AK-630
    Torpedoes: 10(2x5) 533mm


    Redut SAM could be fitted?
    And Naval Pantsir to replace Osa-M


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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  TR1 on Mon Feb 13, 2012 12:01 am

    Everything could be modernized, if the will is there. No news on radical upgrades to weapons complexes though.

    However I spotted new laser-range finders and optical aiming systems on the Ak-630 radar and manual-firing installation.
    http://balancer.ru/forum/punbb/attachment.php?item=256546&download=1

    You can see both here.

    http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/elberet545/view/470219/?page=1
    http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/elberet545/view/470222/?page=1
    http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/elberet545/view/470220/?page=1


    Photos are from here:
    http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/elberet545/album/170991/?

    Album of Twower's visit to the Varyag.

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  GarryB on Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:19 am

    What kind of new systems could involve a future modernization of slava class cruisers?

    Current armament:
    Anti-ship Missiles: 16(8x2) P-1000
    Long Range SAM: 64(8x8) S-300F
    Point Defense: 40(2x20) Osa-M
    Artillery Guns: 1x2 AK-130 130mm
    CIWS: 6x AK-630
    Torpedoes: 10(2x5) 533mm


    Redut SAM could be fitted?
    And Naval Pantsir to replace Osa-M

    The standard armament for future Russian vessels is UKSK launchers for anti ship, anti sub, and land attack missiles, so UKSK launchers would replace P-1000. Redut is currently the SAM option, though there is a possibility that UKSK could be adapted to SAMs as well.
    In terms of artillery they have 130mm guns in a stealthy lightened turret called A-192M, or the new 152mm guns being based on the joint Coalition programme.

    It all depends on how much they want to spend and when they want to do it. Do it now and they could do a cheap and simple upgrade. Wait 5 years and do a more expensive and more thorough upgrade.
    Personally I think the best solution is to do both a simple and cheap upgrade now with new electronics, and in 5-10 years time apply a more thorough upgrade with new technologies that will be cheaper then.

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  George1 on Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:32 am

    GarryB wrote:
    What kind of new systems could involve a future modernization of slava class cruisers?

    Current armament:
    Anti-ship Missiles: 16(8x2) P-1000
    Long Range SAM: 64(8x8) S-300F
    Point Defense: 40(2x20) Osa-M
    Artillery Guns: 1x2 AK-130 130mm
    CIWS: 6x AK-630
    Torpedoes: 10(2x5) 533mm


    Redut SAM could be fitted?
    And Naval Pantsir to replace Osa-M

    The standard armament for future Russian vessels is UKSK launchers for anti ship, anti sub, and land attack missiles, so UKSK launchers would replace P-1000.

    P-1000 missiles are not vertical. If they replace them that means they must rebuild the ships

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  GarryB on Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:35 am

    Quite true, but the Vulkan is a Russian missile so they might just keep producing them for the remaining Slavas.

    Of course at the end of the day the Slava had a lot of electronics in her and was intended as the cheap option if the Kirovs failed as a flagship. This suggests a lot of internal space could be freed up simply by removing the old obsolete electronics and extra crew and make a deep upgrade possible.

    They could just keep the Vulkans as it is an impressive missile, but fitting UKSK should reduce the top weight of the ship and improve performance dramatically. Just replacing the myriad of radars and sensors with a main AESA will simplify and modernise the design dramatically.

    Of course in a deep modernisation they would need to replace the propulsion with a nuclear unit... there is no point in operating conventional powered Slavas in carrier groups where even the destroyers are nukes.

    A carrier group moves as far and as fast as its slowest shortest range element, so the point of going nuke is to increase speed and make range unlimited.

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  George1 on Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:54 am

    GarryB wrote:Quite true, but the Vulkan is a Russian missile so they might just keep producing them for the remaining Slavas.

    Of course at the end of the day the Slava had a lot of electronics in her and was intended as the cheap option if the Kirovs failed as a flagship. This suggests a lot of internal space could be freed up simply by removing the old obsolete electronics and extra crew and make a deep upgrade possible.

    They could just keep the Vulkans as it is an impressive missile, but fitting UKSK should reduce the top weight of the ship and improve performance dramatically. Just replacing the myriad of radars and sensors with a main AESA will simplify and modernise the design dramatically.

    Of course in a deep modernisation they would need to replace the propulsion with a nuclear unit... there is no point in operating conventional powered Slavas in carrier groups where even the destroyers are nukes.

    A carrier group moves as far and as fast as its slowest shortest range element, so the point of going nuke is to increase speed and make range unlimited.

    Is it worthy such a radical and costly modernization for 3 ships?
    It is more preferable to get start with the new cruiser with such money which will have much more strike capability

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  GarryB on Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:05 am

    The thing is that they are working hard on Destroyers right now and they likely wont complete that design till this year or next year let alone lay down a hull and start serial production.

    A new, from scratch design needs to be built and tested thoroughly before you can start cranking them out in the numbers you need.

    They need lots of Corvettes, several dozen Frigates, and 20-30 destroyers pretty soon to replace retiring and obsolete vessels. What with carriers and of course all the support ships and infrastructure needed to operate them I doubt they will be building cruisers till after 2025, and they will have Mistral class carriers in 5 years or less that will need large ships to support its operations.

    The short term solution is a minor upgrade of Kirov and Slava class vessels.

    Nothing radical, but get rid of stuff you can't support like Granit from the Kirovs and give them an electronics suite that will allow them to communicate with other Russian navy assets.
    For Slava replacing the Vulkans with UKSK launcher bins is a bit radical because the Vulkans are obviously external and the UKSK is internal.

    In the short term moderate upgrades will make both vessel classes more useful than they already are without costing so much that they can't afford other things they need like the smaller ships or the carriers they need the big ships for.

    In the longer term the obsolete weapons and equipment on the moderately upgraded large ships will become more and more expensive to support, so a more intensive upgrade will be warranted.

    They will need a new compact and powerful nuclear propulsion system for their new carriers and the Kuznetsov, so by 2020 they will have perfected its design and already put it in the K and tested it, so if it works then putting it in the new carriers as well as the Kirovs and Slavas should make a unified fleet with unified weapons and sensors and propulsion... the benefits of commmonality outweigh the initial costs of doing it.

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    Re: Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

    Post  TR1 on Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:13 am

    The new destroyers being nuclear powered is....very unlikely IMO. Cost would be prohibitive, admiral was talking out of his rear end. However supposedly the design of the new ocean going destroyer is to be finished soon, so we will know for sure.
    Putting a nuclear reactor into the 1164s, might as well build new cruiser from scratch Smile.

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