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    Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #10

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    eehnie
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #10

    Post  eehnie on Thu Aug 04, 2016 9:05 am

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    eehnie wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    eehnie wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:The Russians knew the risks. They are fighting a conflict that is difficult all around, with very incompetent ally and enemies with lots of weapons.  Yet, in the entirety of this conflict, they lost few (21 now?) and as much as it is sad, they knew that casualties will happen and always do. Happened for US, France, Canada, etc everywhere.  Sad but realities of a war.  If it was just planes, doubt any would face issue besides the Su-24 incident.  But when helicopters and guys on the ground appear, then it is bound to happen.

    Yes, unfortunately, you are right. Most of the human loses are from helicopters in military campaigns like this.

    And this is still a war, where the islamic side has very low level of antiaircraft weapons (because their allies fear to give them the guns to avoid loses in their own aircrafts).

    But still helicopters are fragile. This is why I talk about a review of the entire concept of helicopter.

    There is a way to avoid these casualties in helicopters in the future, and it is to make the helicopters unmanned, avoiding also, of course, the transport of people in contested areas, except maybe for wounded soldiers. Russia (and surely the rest of the countries) will go for it, for their next generation of helicopters. Today makes not sense to begin a new project of helicopter that tries not to be unmanned. The first unmanned helicopters should come around 2030.

    Out of this, Russia has been following a very good strategy with the use of aircrafts. They are using the right tactics and the best type of aircrafts to avoid casualties today in these circumstances.

    Overexposure in such a campaign is alas unavoidable. They just can't get the right manpower.

    I tend to think that Russia is working in Syria like they want. I do not think they want big manpower on the ground. They are going to a minimum risk but effective aid to the Syrian government.

    But still the helicopters are emerging (and it also happened to other countries) as a type of warfare where it is more difficult to keep the risks under control all the time. It makes as example the transition to unmanned technologies more urgent on helicopters than for other manned aircrafts.

    By manpower I was aiming at Syrian troops. They aren't ready to be a supporting force for many reasons. Risk adverse militaries I know, but the Russian one isn't. The problem is that Russia is trying to overcome the manpower issue with a combination on fast CAS and helicopters. This tragedy here isn't due to CAS, but to something else. So let the inquiry find out why this CSAR Mil found its way on Idlib airspace and how it was shot.

    I see. Yes, maybe right. In some way it is understandable if the Syrian soldiers are risk averse. There is not other way to survive to a 5 years war of this intensity, only being very risk averse and being lucky enough. Surely only risk averse soldiers survived until now.

    Resistance
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #10

    Post  Resistance on Fri Aug 05, 2016 4:20 pm

    Russia is not serious about defeating terrorists in Syria. Russian air strikes in the Aleppo city area are sporadic at best, less than 10% the intensity prior to the February 27 peace deal. All Russia cares about is sending humanitarian aid to Aleppo city according to the February 27 peace deal, with no regards to the safety of Russian service members. Thousands of jihadists are grouping in plain sight without being attacked by planes. Russia let Syrian people down man, BIG time. Go big, or go home.

    If Russians don't want to fight, fine, go back to Russia and give the MiG-29M2 and Yak-130 planes Syria bought before 2011 and let Syrians fight.

    zorobabel
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #10

    Post  zorobabel on Fri Aug 05, 2016 7:36 pm

    The Syrian military leadership must know something I don't. They have militias fighting to take parts of Handarat Camp in north Aleppo and others trying to retake Kinsabba in Latakia, meanwhile their supply lines in south Aleppo are a few hundred meters from being severed, which would besiege a million residents in West Aleppo.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #10

    Post  Resistance on Fri Aug 05, 2016 7:46 pm

    zorobabel wrote:The Syrian military leadership must know something I don't. They have militias fighting to take parts of Handarat Camp in north Aleppo and others trying to retake Kinsabba in Latakia, meanwhile their supply lines in south Aleppo are a few hundred meters from being severed, which would besiege a million residents in West Aleppo.

    Both Syrians and Russians are incompetent. Russia lost Ukraine from under its grasp all because of Olympics in 2014. Intervened too late and snatched Crimea. Had Russians intervened in Syria in 2012, none of this has to happen today. Also, Russians are wasting their men away in Syria doing humanitarian aid instead of hitting jihadists.

    KoTeMoRe
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #10

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Fri Aug 05, 2016 11:51 pm

    This thread needs moderation. There's a cancer in here.

    Solncepek
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #10

    Post  Solncepek on Sat Aug 06, 2016 7:39 am



    WHERE ARE THE RUSSIAN HELICOPTERS ???
    WHERE ARE THE RUSSIAN JET-FIGHTERS ???

    WHERE ARE THE RUSSIAN AIR FORCES ???

    Werewolf
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #10

    Post  Werewolf on Sat Aug 06, 2016 7:45 am

    KoTeMoRe wrote:This thread needs moderation. There's a cancer in here.

    Lost cause, my friend!

    Vann7
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #10

    Post  Vann7 on Sat Aug 06, 2016 7:54 am

    Solncepek wrote:

    WHERE ARE THE RUSSIAN HELICOPTERS ???
    WHERE ARE THE RUSSIAN JET-FIGHTERS ???

    WHERE ARE THE RUSSIAN AIR FORCES ???


    Russia airforce is seriously limited by the small force deployed in Latakkia .
    My Bet is NATO RADARs in Turkey and in Cyprus with their satellite observation, warns
    before hand ,the terrorist ,any time the Russian airforce is moving in their direction
    so they seek cover or camouflage their trucks whenever Russia airforce close. Aside the Syrian
    Army is not properly armed to deal with very fast moving targets , in kamikazi suicide attacks full of explosives.

    Solncepek
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #10

    Post  Solncepek on Sat Aug 06, 2016 8:56 am

    Российский Ми-8 в Сирии сбили из новейшего «Стингера»: будем ждать «обратку»

    4.08.2016 · В мире
    Ми-8

    Сбитый 1 августа около посёлка Телль-Тукан у границы сирийских провинций Идлиб и Алеппо Ми-8АМТШ (бортовой номер RF-95585) выполнял спецзадание в интересах военной разведки. Навести на него могли только американские спецслужбы.

    Сама машина была приписана к 562-й авиационной базе армейской авиации (г. Новосибирск, аэродром Толмачёво), а погибшие российские лётчики служили на военном аэродроме «Клин-5» в 92-й инструкторско-исследовательской вертолётной эскадрилье (ИИВЭ). Структурно она входит в состав 344-го Центра боевой подготовки и переучивания лётного состава армейской авиации.

    В Минобороны назвали имена погибших лётчиков. Командиром экипажа был 33-летний капитан Роман Павлов, лётчиком-штурманом – 29-летний Олег Шеламов, 41-летний капитан Алексей Шорохов – бортовым техником. Вместе с экипажем погибли и два офицера, как говорится в официальных сообщениях, из «центра примирения сторон». Также, по официальной версии, борт RF-95585 возвращался на авиабазу Хмеймим после доставки гуманитарного груза в Алеппо.

    Эксперты сразу обратили внимание, что «восьмёрка» шла по достаточно безопасному воздушному коридору на высоте 3500 метров, но без сопровождения боевыми вертолетами Ми-24 или Ми-28. Как пояснил военный источник, «ребята из «Клина» часто выполняют вылеты в интересах Главного управления Генштаба (так теперь называется ГРУ ГШ). И в целях недопущения утечки информации такие вылеты, особенно по заброске или эвакуации разведчиков «из поля», проводятся без привлечения боевого охранения».

    Зато за этими машинами внимательно следят «большие космические уши» из Агентства национальной безопасности (АНБ). Ответственность за гибель российских военных взяли на себя террористы из проамериканского «Фронта Фатх аш-Шам». Сбить вертолёт на такой высоте могут только новейшие модели FIM-92 «Стингер». В результате складывается трагический пазл – России передали кровавый привет из Вашингтона.

    Будем ждать «обратку». В афганском небе с безопасной высоты вполне может рухнуть подбитый Boeing CH-47 Chinook с подразделением морской пехоты на борту.

    http://k-politika.ru/rossijskij-mi-8-v-sirii-sbili-iz-novejshego-stingera-budem-zhdat-obratku/

    eehnie
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #10

    Post  eehnie on Sat Aug 06, 2016 10:08 am

    I tend to think that in the case of use of antiaircraft manpads, if some of the countries that support the islamic forces would want its use against the Russian aircrafts in Syria, would not need to give them to the islamic forces and put in risk the aircrafts of their own coalition. Of course talking about the countries that can provide them in the area.

    Instead of taking these risks, these countries can easily to send irregularly groups of their own forces, to operate in Syria with these weapons.

    Solncepek
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #10

    Post  Solncepek on Sat Aug 06, 2016 11:17 am

    РОССИЯ, ЧТО С ТОБОЙ ???

    JohninMK
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #10

    Post  JohninMK on Sat Aug 06, 2016 11:21 am

    Solncepek wrote:РОССИЯ, ЧТО С ТОБОЙ ???
    Re this and your previous post.

    WTF

    Is this a private discussion you have started or can all us English speakers on here join in without each of us using Yandex?

    Solncepek
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #10

    Post  Solncepek on Sat Aug 06, 2016 11:31 am

    ПУТИН ВВЕДИ ВОЙСКА!!!!! НЕМЕДЛЕННО !!!!!

    George1
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #10

    Post  George1 on Sat Aug 06, 2016 11:32 am

    Solncepek wrote:ПУТИН ВВЕДИ ВОЙСКА!!!!! НЕМЕДЛЕННО !!!!!

    pls write in english


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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #10

    Post  GarryB on Sat Aug 06, 2016 11:34 am

    This thread needs moderation. There's a cancer in here.

    Not cancer... stupidity.

    Also, Russians are wasting their men away in Syria doing humanitarian aid instead of hitting jihadists.

    If you didn't learn it from Vietnam or Afghanistan, you will perhaps never learn it Resistance, but killing them all as a policy never actually works.

    These actions for hearts and minds of the civilian population is what will decide who the population supports and that is what wins these types of war.


    @Solncepek

    You have been repeatedly warned that this is an English language forum and that any posts in any other languages need translations into English.

    You get a 4 day ban.

    If you do it again then the ban will be a month or possibly permanent.

    If you have any problems with this please feel free to send me a private message.




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    KoTeMoRe
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #10

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Sat Aug 06, 2016 11:56 am

    Solncepek wrote:

    WHERE ARE THE RUSSIAN HELICOPTERS ???
    WHERE ARE THE RUSSIAN JET-FIGHTERS ???

    WHERE ARE THE RUSSIAN AIR FORCES ???

    that's from 1st August. They're all dead now.

    After Cancer I present you Ebola.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #10

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Sat Aug 06, 2016 12:08 pm

    Solncepek wrote:Российский Ми-8 в Сирии сбили из новейшего «Стингера»: будем ждать «обратку»

    4.08.2016 · В мире
    Ми-8



    http://k-politika.ru/rossijskij-mi-8-v-sirii-sbili-iz-novejshego-stingera-budem-zhdat-obratku/


    What a bunch of nonsense.

    So the chopper alone goes among Jihadi territory for "Intelligence mission" with a CSAR helicopter. Simply put for whatever reason the chopper went astray from corridor. Also the helicopter had a 6000m ceiling assuming that they could have flown at 5000, however, the hulk was rather intact and presented no sign of forceful entry or peppering on the tail (which was detached clean from ground contact). The helicopter could have been brought down by anything AA, and unfortunately the black boxes can't be recovered.

    This indicates that the Mil was to close for comfort from something and IMO it wasn't Stinger but different medium range system.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #10

    Post  Project Canada on Sat Aug 06, 2016 12:29 pm


    Is Solncepek even Russian? I suspect he is a NATO troll who pretends to be Russian to piss everyone and hope to make people hate Russians. Me thinks he is an American buttkisser CIA troll agent Rolling Eyes

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #10

    Post  Resistance on Sat Aug 06, 2016 12:32 pm

    Solncepek wrote:

    WHERE ARE THE RUSSIAN HELICOPTERS ???
    WHERE ARE THE RUSSIAN JET-FIGHTERS ???

    WHERE ARE THE RUSSIAN AIR FORCES ???

    I thought Putin pulled Russian air force back to Russia when he signed the February 27 peace deal with Kerry?

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #10

    Post  Resistance on Sat Aug 06, 2016 12:34 pm

    Vann7 wrote:
    Solncepek wrote:

    WHERE ARE THE RUSSIAN HELICOPTERS ???
    WHERE ARE THE RUSSIAN JET-FIGHTERS ???

    WHERE ARE THE RUSSIAN AIR FORCES ???


    Russia airforce is seriously limited by the small force deployed in Latakkia .
    My Bet is NATO RADARs in Turkey and in Cyprus with their satellite observation, warns
    before hand ,the terrorist ,any time the Russian airforce is moving in their direction
    so they seek cover or camouflage their trucks whenever Russia airforce close. Aside the Syrian
    Army is not properly armed to deal with very fast moving targets , in kamikazi suicide attacks full of explosives.

    Bad excuse. Buildings don't move. Even if they are warned, which I doubt, it does not help.

    Besides, even if there are warnings, where's the super duper Tu-214R and Il-20M planes that can intercept such warnings? Don't tell me the super duper Tu-214R and Il-20M planes are only for show and Russians never use them.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #10

    Post  Resistance on Sat Aug 06, 2016 12:42 pm

    Where on earth are Smerchs? Dozens of these things should be positioned at the Aleppo airport and the Kuweiris airbase pounding bad people 24 7.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #10

    Post  Resistance on Sat Aug 06, 2016 6:01 pm

    Russia must deploy a battalion of ASVK snipers and hunt down jihadists from distances of about a kilometer. A few hundred ASVK snipers will devastate a few thousand jihadists.

    If Russia does not deploy ground forces now, Russia will have to deploy ground forces in the near future.

    Russia cannot hold its border if jihadists overrun Syria and turn every Syrian into a jihadist.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #10

    Post  Vann7 on Sat Aug 06, 2016 10:10 pm

    SNipers cannot defeat armored trucks with full of bombs while staying at safe distance from
    the destruction zone. Even if they manage to kill the driver , the truck explosives will wipe or wound any sniper withing ~1k of the place.

    just one terrorist humvee with TNT look what it can do.






    any sniper there will be killed with one truck bomb.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #10

    Post  Project Canada on Sat Aug 06, 2016 10:28 pm


    Why not bomb Jihadist staging areas where they prep their bomb trucks? Because of civilian human shields? Thats too bad cause US is immune to such strategy, look at Manjib where 40 civs were reportedly killed after US bombing. I dont know whats holding Russia back but I wish they know what they're doing, i mean if forumers like us can see whats wrong and what needs to be done, they should know too right??

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #10

    Post  Resistance on Sat Aug 06, 2016 10:35 pm

    Project Canada wrote:
    Why not bomb Jihadist staging areas where they prep their bomb trucks? Because of civilian human shields? Thats too bad cause US is immune to such strategy, look at Manjib where 40 civs were reportedly killed after US bombing. I dont know whats holding Russia back but I wish they know what they're doing, i mean if forumers like us can see whats wrong and what needs to be done, they should know too right??

    Russia signed a peace deal with Kerry on February 27. Russians always keep their word. Russia signed peace deal with Hitler and didn't do anything until Hitler reached Moscow and massacred millions of civilians. Russia signed deal with Reagan and broke up USSR. Russia signed deal with Ukraine and allows Ukrainians to shell Donbas every ding dong day and kill civilians. Russia deals always kill Russians in the end yet Russians always keep their word even if it means getting killed.

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