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    Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #10

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    JohninMK
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #10

    Post  JohninMK on Mon Oct 17, 2016 8:43 pm

    eehnie wrote:

    While I'm very cold with the behaviour of the EU political leaders, to put the words of a UK minister as supposed spokesperson of the EU is a bad joke... The UK is out...
    Sadly not out yet, still in that blood sucking organisation for another couple of years at least.

    eehnie
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #10

    Post  eehnie on Mon Oct 17, 2016 8:48 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    eehnie wrote:

    While I'm very cold with the behaviour of the EU political leaders, to put the words of a UK minister as supposed spokesperson of the EU is a bad joke... The UK is out...
    Sadly not out yet, still in that blood sucking organisation for another couple of years at least.

    They are out enough to be not in condition to act as spokesperson of the EU. In this case they are out for the good of the EU.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #10

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:01 pm

    Talking about war crimes lol! lol! lol!

    UK troops to be protected from 'spurious legal claims'


    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-37544280


    Legal measures to protect UK troops from "spurious" claims of misconduct have been unveiled by the government.
    The change in policy, announced at the Conservative conference, would mean parts of the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) could be suspended during future conflicts.
    Defence Secretary Michael Fallon said the legal system had been abused "to falsely accuse our armed forces".
    The MoD has spent more than £100m on Iraq-related claims since 2004.
    Speaking at the Tory conference in Birmingham, Mr Fallon said: "This is not about putting our armed forces above the law, they wouldn't want that. They have to comply with the criminal law of this country and, of course, with the Geneva conventions.
    "Serious claims must be investigated, but spurious claims will be stopped and our armed forces will now be able to do their job fighting the enemy and not the lawyers."

    Follow text and video updates from the Conservative Party conference
    Two separate inquiries are currently examining about 2,000 allegations against troops who served in Iraq and Afghanistan.
    Much of the litigation comes from claims under the ECHR, the government said.
    The changes would mean that in future conflicts, subject to a vote of both Houses of Parliament, the UK would "derogate" from Article Two (right to life) and Article Five (right to liberty) of the ECHR.
    Troops would still be subject to other articles of the convention, including a prohibition on torture, and the changes would not affect retrospective cases.

    Media captionThe defence secretary explains how troops will be protected from "vexatious" legal claims
    Prime Minister Theresa May told BBC Breakfast: "What we've seen is a whole industry of lawyers chasing after our troops and trying to bring claims against them, many of which are vexatious claims, and we want to put an end to that."
    The former Conservative Attorney General Dominic Grieve welcomed the proposal, but said it was not a "magic formula" which would suddenly ensure British military personnel would not face claims in future.
    'Absurd'

    Conservative MP and former Army officer Thomas Tugendhat told Radio 4's Today programme the government was "restoring the appropriate law".
    "To do otherwise would be to equate the beaches of Normandy to downtown Brighton and that would be absurd," he said.
    But human rights lawyer Jocelyn Cockburn disagreed, telling Today she didn't think the government's decision would "protect soldiers from allegations of abuse".
    She said the ability to suspend certain parts of the ECHR was "not a new or novel thing", and reiterated certain elements of the convention would still apply.

    One example, she said, enabled lawyers to continue to pursue ongoing cases against the MoD in which it was accused of "failing to protect the right to life of soldiers by supplying inadequate equipment".
    'Undermining soldiers'
    There has been criticism of the scale of claims lodged using legal aid with the Iraq Historic Allegations Team (IHAT), which was set up to examine serious accusations following the 2003 invasion.
    The team, headed up by former senior civilian police officer Mark Warwick, has considered at least 1,514 possible victims - of whom 280 are alleged to have been unlawfully killed.
    The claims range from ill-treatment during detention to assault and death by shooting.
    One of the most famous cases to be disproved was based on accusations that up to 20 Iraqis were killed and mutilated after a 2004 battle.
    This led to the £34m Al-Sweady inquiry in 2014, which ruled the allegations were "deliberate lies" based on "reckless speculation".
    But a number of cases have also been found to have merit - and in September, a judge condemned four UK soldiers who "forced" an Iraqi boy into a canal and let him drown.

    The planned crackdown has been criticised by Lt Col Nicholas Mercer, the former chief legal adviser for the Army in Iraq, who said it was wrong "simply to polarise it as money-grabbing lawyers".
    "There are plenty of us who have raised our concerns without any financial motive at all, if indeed the other lawyers have got a financial motive," he said in January.
    "The government have paid out £20m for 326 cases to date. Anyone who has fought the MoD knows that they don't pay out for nothing."
    It was also recently revealed that an independent policing unit set up to investigate alleged war crimes by British troops in Afghanistan had received around 600 complaints.
    The cases being probed are said to include that of a Taliban bombmaker who claims his arrest and detention was illegal.
    The move was welcomed by Reg Keys, whose 20-year-old son Tom was killed while guarding a police station in Iraq in 2003.
    He has been involved in a campaign against the legal cases, and said: "I would like to think that those already under threat of prosecution will be looked at again".
    For Labour, shadow defence secretary Clive Lewis said: "Michael Fallon's speech was a smokescreen, designed to deflect from the Tories legacy of failure on defence.
    "The reality is their devastating cuts since 2010 have weakened and demoralised our Armed Forces, leaving them poorly-equipped, over-stretched, under-paid and too often living in squalid conditions."
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    PapaDragon
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #10

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:56 pm


    Actually passable article by BBC:

    Russia and the West: Where did it all go wrong?

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-37658286

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #10

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:41 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Actually passable article by BBC:

    Russia and the West: Where did it all go wrong?

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-37658286

    to me very much western BS. Russia is main block to build world govt. Too many nukes to take Russia down by force. Since collapse of USSR all sudden Chechnya insurgency, Iraq till Syria wars wa sone and same- let US to live on behalf of other nations.

    As VVP recently said: Russia was good when Yeltsin capitulated and was giving one by one all from Russia away. But during aggression against Serbia Primakov turned plane over Atlantic was first signal to start new war against Russia.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #10

    Post  franco on Tue Oct 18, 2016 1:14 am

    We do not beat on weddings and funeral processions. Each stroke is recorded flight recorder and unmanned aircraft - said the head of the Main Operations Directorate of the General Staff of the Russian Armed Forces, Lieutenant-General Sergey Rudskoy.

    The statement was made at a press briefing in response to numerous reports in the West that the Russian Aerospace forces during anti-terrorist operations in Syria allegedly used outdated munitions have indiscriminate effects. And this leads to numerous victims among the civilian population, including in Aleppo Syria.

    Aircraft aerospace Russian forces applied to single point strikes exclusively on pre-verified goals is the Syrian city of Aleppo and outside the areas of residential development, the general said Rudskoy. He also said that in Syria a multilevel intelligence system that provides reliable detection and defeat militants purposes. And it eliminates attacks against civilian objects.

    Russian air operation in Syria against terrorists showed that our military used precision-guided weapons. This ensures that the air strikes are exclusively military targets militants. To date committed more than ten thousand sorties and destroyed more than thirty thousand objects terrorists. The fighting in Syria is deeply involved modernized Su-25SM. Aircraft equipped with a new sighting and navigation system "Leopard", and equipment for use with the GLONASS satellite navigation system. It is possible to achieve high precision shooting even unguided rockets and missiles use a laser seeker - Kh-25ML and Kh-29L.

    If the Su-25 attack planes have extensive front-line experience, the Su-34 bombers were used in combat for the first time. It is the only aircraft in the world, combining the possibility of a bomber, fighter and interceptor. It can be used as a spy plane.

    The Su-34 has a powerful radar with a phased antenna array, complex electronic reconnaissance, jamming and creating jamming. The Su-34 has an internal laser television-sighting system "Sycamore" to the bottom of the fuselage, which provides high accuracy as when using svobodnopadayuschih and corrected air bombs.

    It is worth remembering that a group of Su-34 more October 1, 2015 destroyed the command post of the LIH, banned in Russia, and struck in the camp of training militants in Raqqa province. As a result, strikes bombers all the targets were hit.
    The Su-34 is a laser sighting system "Sycamore", which provides high precision bombs

    Already on October 2nd of the same year, using the corrected bombs, Su-34 destroyed another terrorist buried command post. A concrete-October 3 bombs BETAB-500, dropped from the Su-34, was completely destroyed by another secure command post of one of the groups of terrorists, as well as an underground bunker-fuel storage and munitions. In general, in October 2015 the Su-34 bombers struck by terrorist infrastructure is one of the most serious impacts of high-precision all-time performance of our aviation anti-terrorism mission in Syria.

    In particular, October 15, in the province of Damascus was destroyed by anti-aircraft missile system "Osa", previously captured by terrorists "Islamic state" from the Syrian army. Such complexes are dangerous not only for the military, but also civil aviation, since the height of the actions of their missiles few kilometers. "Wasp" was in a well-protected concrete shelter. But guided aerial bombs KAB-500S was hovering right on target, destroying the solid walls of the shelter and destroyed a rocket launcher.

    Against the most important and protected objects of the terrorists with the Su-34 are used particularly powerful polutoratonnye guided aerial bombs KAB-1500.

    According to the Defense Ministry, as well as from public sources it is known that in Syria with the Su-34 aircraft used responsive bombs KAB-500S with satellite-guided KAB-500Kr with television-correlation seeker, KAB-1500LG-Pr with a penetrating warhead and a laser gyro-stabilized seeker.

    The real surprise was the use of Russian military cruise missiles "Caliber". For overseas there was confidence that the high-precision cruise missiles with a range of more than a thousand kilometers in Russia simply does not have.

    And when the grouping of the Caspian flotilla as part of a missile ship "Dagestan" and three small missile ships "Grad Sviyazhsk", "Great Ustyug" and "Uglich" from the region in the south-western part of the Caspian Sea produced launch 26 missiles on October 7, 2015 night 3M-14 "Caliber-NK" at a distance of over 1500 kilometers on 11 objects "Islamic state" in the three provinces of Syria - Raqqa, Idlib and Aleppo, it has become a worldwide sensation. Objects missile strikes were factories for the production of projectiles and explosives, command posts, ammunition depots, weapons and fuel and lubricants, as well as terrorist training camps.

    In the same part of the four ships of the Caspian Flotilla November 20, 2015 hit 18 missiles 3M-14 "Caliber-NK" on the 7 objects terrorists in the provinces of Raqqa, Idlib and Aleppo.

    Then start "Caliber" of various modifications were made to other ships, submarines and strategic bombers, submarines. And all of them were beaten to the point.

    Of course, in any war, mistakes are possible, and even blows on her. There's even a term "losses from friendly fire." However, when it comes to Syria, it strikes at the civilian population and civilian objects simply excluded. Firstly, using only the most modern high-precision weapons and the most advanced aiming systems for unguided bombs and rockets. Secondly, strikes are only after a thorough investigation and follow-up exploration. In Syria, our military is not seven times, measure before the strike, but seventy-seven, checking their intelligence with data derived from other sources.

    If Russian weapons to beat "in milk", and even more so in the civilian population, would not there have been very serious changes in the global arms market. Assessing the use of Russian military equipment and a wide variety of weapons in a real war, arms importers in the world have turned to Russia. The price of our arms, and literally and figuratively took off. Naturally, this could not cause a corresponding reaction in the US and Europe, who considered themselves the most important players on the world arms market.

    calm
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #10

    Post  calm on Tue Oct 18, 2016 9:47 pm

    Russian military builds new runway in east Syria as ISIS flees Mosul

    HOMS, SYRIA (10:00 P.M.) - The Russian Air Force has built a new runway at the T-4 Military Airport in eastern Homs after reports of several Islamic State fighters fleeing the large Iraqi city of Mosul for Syria. Prior to the Islamic State's massive counter-offensive in the Al-Sha'er region of east Homs, the Russian Air Force was actively using the T-4 Military Airport as a command center to advise the Syrian Arab Army (SAA) in the area. However, due to the increased security risks near the T-4 Airport, the Russian military advisors moved their command post to Palmyra and most of their aircraft to the Hmaymim Airport in west Latakia. With ISIS fleeing Mosul for eastern Syrial, the Russian Air Force has made the decision to beef up their air presence around the Deir Ezzor Governorate in anticipation for this influx of terrorists. wrote:

    Tiyas Military Airbase

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #10

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Oct 19, 2016 1:47 am


    Meanwhile in Norwegian Sea...









    http://www.sdelanounas.ru/blogs/84968/

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #10

    Post  eehnie on Wed Oct 19, 2016 2:25 am

    Some people tend to consider the war in Syria as a high technological level war, and the war in Donbass as a low technological level war.

    I agree not. For me in the war in Syria we see how the weapons in the front line are of lower technological level than in the war in Donbass. In adition to it high level technologies are used in both wars but the type of weapons used is different. While in the war of Donbass we see high technology applied mostly to the defense, in the war of Syria high level technologies are applied for the attack.

    The war in Syria is long and requieres many warfare and ammunition. In the side of the Syrian government, Russia is the main supplier and after some years of fight surely the stores of the Syrian Armed Forces are in low leve. Surely this war should mean the end in the Russian Armed Forces of some of the oldest and of lower technological level warfare.

    One example of all it, is the towed weapons (artillery and anti aircraft). The models used in Syria are fairly of lower technological level than the used in Donbass in overall terms. The technological floor is lower in Syria while the intensity of the conflict and the needs of replacement for the loses and the wasted ammunition are bigger.

    With the needs of both wars, and after the recent decommission wave of 2010-2013 and the scrapping effort done until 2015, I think the image of old storage places in Russia with warfare and ammunition in poor condition are history. In fact all it should mean the end in the Russian inventaries of the:

    203mm 1955 B-4M
    152mm 1937 ML-20
    160mm 1949 M-160
    130mm 1953 M-46
    152mm 1943 D-1
    152mm 1954 D-20
    122mm 1940 M-30
    057mm 1950 S-60
    023mm 1960 ZU-23-2
    082mm 1970 Vasilek

    Likely most of them are finished in Russia at this point, despite to be discussed still by sources like The Military Balance. The alone not finished surely are the ZU-23-2 and the Vasilek, which should follow the rest in the short term as they are easily replaceable.

    It seems that the Russian supplies on towed weapons until now have not been limited to these models. It is likely to continue, and to see more units of more modern models of towed weapons (which are the main towed weapons that have been used in Donbass):

    152mm 1975 Giatsint-B
    120mm 1986 Nona-K
    122mm 1960 D-30
    100mm 1961 (M)T-12
    152mm 1987 Msta-B

    Also in the side of the less modern weapons, I would not be surprised if Syria has some supplies of:

    Su-25
    BM-21


    Last edited by eehnie on Wed Oct 19, 2016 2:02 pm; edited 1 time in total

    JohninMK
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #10

    Post  JohninMK on Wed Oct 19, 2016 12:57 pm

    Fun map out of the US. No overlay for the S-400 sited a bit further east.


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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #10

    Post  JohninMK on Wed Oct 19, 2016 2:52 pm

    Good to see with a bit of realism at the end.

    MOSCOW (Sputnik) — The Russian military is mostly focused on possible attempts by Daesh militants to escape the Iraqi city of Mosul and head toward Syria, General Valery Gerasimov said.

    "Our main focus is on the militants' possible attempts to escape from Mosul or by agreement freely leave the city in the direction of Syria," Gerasimov said. He also said that Moscow hopes the US-led coalition understands the impact of Daesh militants' escape from Mosul. "One must not chase the terrorists from one country to another but destroy them on the spot."

    "We monitor the situation round the clock in the Mosul area and the course of the operation to block Daesh militants in the city. Space reconnaissance devices have been redirected there, more than 10 of our aerial reconnaissance equipment are also working in close proximity to the area, including unmanned vehicles."

    General Valery Gerasimov stressed that, despite Western media hype, the campaign to retake Mosul from the terrorist group has not yet formally begun.


    Read more: https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201610191046495749-russia-mosul-monitoring/

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #10

    Post  calm on Wed Oct 19, 2016 7:57 pm



    par far
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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #10

    Post  par far on Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:07 pm

    calm wrote:


    Would it not be easier to go through the Black Sea through the Bosphorus strait and to the Mediterranean Sea to the Syrian coast. Or this is being done to piss off NATO and to see the reaction of NATO.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #10

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:39 pm

    [quote="par far"]
    calm wrote:

    Would it not be easier to go through the Black Sea through the Bosphorus strait and to the Mediterranean Sea to the Syrian coast. Or this is being done to piss off NATO and to see the reaction of NATO.

    They are coming from Severomorsk, that is next to Norway. Nowhere near Black Sea.



    Also, this pic has been making rounds, taken by Royal Navy:

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #10

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:39 pm

    par far wrote:
    calm wrote:


    Would it not be easier to go through the Black Sea through the Bosphorus strait and to the Mediterranean Sea to the Syrian coast. Or this is being done to piss off NATO and to see the reaction of NATO.

    Montreux headache.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #10

    Post  JohninMK on Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:41 pm

    par far wrote:
    Would it not be easier to go through the Black Sea through the Bosphorus strait and to the Mediterranean Sea to the Syrian coast. Or this is being done to piss off NATO and to see the reaction of NATO.
    Could I respectfully refer you to an atlas.

    Whilst the Swedish Vikings might have been able to haul their boats over the mountains to get to the Black Sea, I am not sure that the current crop of RuN sailors would be able to do so with theirs.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #10

    Post  JohninMK on Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:45 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:

    Montreux headache.
    Not correct. Non of the Fleet fall foul of the regulations, apart perhaps from any submarines with it.

    There is no aircraft carrier in the fleet, only a missile cruiser with an aircraft capability. A bit like having a large helicopter deck Laughing

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #10

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:47 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:

    Montreux headache.
    Not correct. Non of the Fleet fall foul of the regulations, apart perhaps from any submarines with it.

    There is no aircraft carrier in the fleet, only a missile cruiser with an aircraft capability. A bit like having a large helicopter deck Laughing

    Yet there is a clear headache about the carrier group rolling around. The Kuz overhauls were done up north, makes sense to have them go through Gib.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #10

    Post  JohninMK on Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:53 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:

    Montreux headache.
    Not correct. Non of the Fleet fall foul of the regulations, apart perhaps from any submarines with it.

    There is no aircraft carrier in the fleet, only a missile cruiser with an aircraft capability. A bit like having a large helicopter deck Laughing

    Yet there is a clear headache about the carrier group rolling around. The Kuz overhauls were done up north, makes sense to have them go through Gib.
    Not sure what you are getting at. The only realistic, and certainly shortest by thousands of miles, way is via Gib.

    And yes, the carrier group is causing all kinds of fun and games. I just hope, as I have said, that its speed and activities are such that it passes Dover on a clear day in daylight.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #10

    Post  par far on Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:55 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    par far wrote:
    Would it not be easier to go through the Black Sea through the Bosphorus strait and to the Mediterranean Sea to the Syrian coast. Or this is being done to piss off NATO and to see the reaction of NATO.
    Could I respectfully refer you to an atlas.

    Whilst the Swedish Vikings might have been able to haul their boats over the mountains to get to the Black Sea, I am not sure that the current crop of RuN sailors would be able to do so with theirs.


    I thought that all of the ships going to Syria would be located in the Black sea, anyway that is a long way.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #10

    Post  JohninMK on Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:59 pm

    par far wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:
    par far wrote:
    Would it not be easier to go through the Black Sea through the Bosphorus strait and to the Mediterranean Sea to the Syrian coast. Or this is being done to piss off NATO and to see the reaction of NATO.
    Could I respectfully refer you to an atlas.

    Whilst the Swedish Vikings might have been able to haul their boats over the mountains to get to the Black Sea, I am not sure that the current crop of RuN sailors would be able to do so with theirs.


    I thought that all of the ships going to Syria would be located in the Black sea, anyway that is a long way.
    You must have been away for a while Very Happy

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #10

    Post  par far on Wed Oct 19, 2016 9:59 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    par far wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:
    par far wrote:
    Would it not be easier to go through the Black Sea through the Bosphorus strait and to the Mediterranean Sea to the Syrian coast. Or this is being done to piss off NATO and to see the reaction of NATO.
    Could I respectfully refer you to an atlas.

    Whilst the Swedish Vikings might have been able to haul their boats over the mountains to get to the Black Sea, I am not sure that the current crop of RuN sailors would be able to do so with theirs.


    I thought that all of the ships going to Syria would be located in the Black sea, anyway that is a long way.
    You must have been away for a while Very Happy


    Not too long LOL. Anyone if the fighters jets on Admiral Kuznetsov, will be used against the terrorists, in far East Syria?

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #10

    Post  calm on Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:20 pm

    is this allowed?
    18+
    Spoiler:
    Cool

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #10

    Post  JohninMK on Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:23 pm

    par far wrote:

    Not too long LOL. Anyone if the fighters jets on Admiral Kuznetsov, will be used against the terrorists, in far East Syria?
    Highly unlikely, they can't carry the fuel/weapons load from the carrier ski-jump that aircraft from a runway can. They may go for a visit out of curiosity.

    Anyway no need to send them that far, they will have plenty to keep them busy in the west. They could always shadow the Tornados out of Akrotiri if they wanted some fun.

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    Re: Russian Military involvement and aid to Syria #10

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:22 am

    JohninMK wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:

    Montreux headache.
    Not correct. Non of the Fleet fall foul of the regulations, apart perhaps from any submarines with it.

    There is no aircraft carrier in the fleet, only a missile cruiser with an aircraft capability. A bit like having a large helicopter deck Laughing

    Yet there is a clear headache about the carrier group rolling around. The Kuz overhauls were done up north, makes sense to have them go through Gib.
    Not sure what you are getting at. The only realistic, and certainly shortest by thousands of miles, way is via Gib.

    And yes, the carrier group is causing all kinds of fun and games. I just hope, as I have said, that its speed and activities are such that it passes Dover on a clear day in daylight.

    The question was asked why the Ship didn't cross the Bosphorus. I said even if they could, the Montreux would be an headache and frankly in these times, they just made peace with Turkey, it would be a bit offending to have a whole war party going down there. If Turkey wasn't a party in the war , then maybe it wouldn't be a problem. Sometimes you need to show some tact.

    Just follow the discussion. Also a non-carrier that has a typical carrier group...let's agree to disagree.

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