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    Russian Army: Military districts, land units (Locations, equipment and rearmaments)

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    Benya
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    Re: Russian Army: Military districts, land units (Locations, equipment and rearmaments)

    Post  Benya on Mon Nov 28, 2016 11:16 pm

    Today I have done some editing to the Western Military District's unit list

    After a bit of research, I have found out that the 19th Heavy SP Artillery Battalion and the 18th Heavy SP Mortar Battalion (both units garrisoned at Tambov) have been merged into the 45th Heavy Artillery Brigade. The other interesting thing is that the unit uses 2S7M "Malkas" (modernized variant of the 2S7 "Pion" heavy SP howitzer). So I added the new brigade.


    • (45 ABr BM) 45th Heavy Artillery Brigade (Tambov, Tambov region)


    -Equipment: 12 2S7M "Malka" 203mm heavy self-propelled howitzers, 8 2S4 "Tyulpan" 240mm heavy self-propelled mortars


    Next up, I found some info on the newly formed 3rd Motor Rifle Division, so I've edited its TO&E too

    Here they are:

    -(752 MSP) 732nd Motor Rifle Regiment (Boguchar, Voronezh region)

    -Equipment:

    -(xxx MSP) xxx Motor Rifle Regiment (Boguchar, Voronezh region)

    -Equipment:

    Somewhat similar news about the 144th Motor Rifle Division:

    -(488 MSP) 488th Motor Rifle Regiment (Klintsiy, Bryansk region)

    -Equipment:

    -(xxx MSP) xxx Motor Rifle Regiment (Klintsiy, Bryansk region)

    -Equipment:

    -(148 ORB) 148th Detached Reconaissance Battalion (Smolensk, Smolensk region)

    -Equipment:

    A new motor rifle regiment for the 4th Guards "Kantemirovskaya" Tank Division is under forming:

    -(432 MSP) 432nd Motor Rifle Regiment (Naro-Fominsk, Moscow region)

    -Equipment:


    For me, it is very interesting to find out some fresh info about new units.

    I fixed a load of typos too. Very Happy

    GarryB
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    Re: Russian Army: Military districts, land units (Locations, equipment and rearmaments)

    Post  GarryB on Tue Nov 29, 2016 7:17 am

    Future Russian armored divisions will have I assume three brigades of three battalions each ? How many tanks and IFV are in a battalion ? I assume the plan is to equip armored brigades with T-14 and T-15. Will motorized infantry brigades get Kurganetz or T-15 ? Where do the Bumerangs fit in

    The equipment of an armoured division was dictated by several factors... the terrain it would operate on, the sort of enemy it would face, its distance from the front lines in any future conflict, and the sort of thing it was near... ie what was it protecting.

    There were pretty much two basic types of division... tank heavy and infantry heavy but both had both tanks and infantry and were useful for different types of opponents on different types of terrain.

    There will be rather more different types of future Russian armoured divisions.

    The whole purpose of vehicle families is to reduce the different types of vehicles within each division.

    In a tank division now you have a huge number of soft skinned vehicles that can be defeated with relatively light anti armour weapons.

    Future Heavy tank divisions will be armata based. Future heavy motor rifle divisions will be armata based. That is the whole idea.

    Depending on the mobility level required future medium tank divisions might be Kurganets based if there are few roads and lots of swamps and difficult country. In areas where roads are plentiful then a medium tank division might have boomerang based divisions. They wont mix them because the situation and location will either suit wheeled or tracked. The motor rifle units will use the same vehicle base so the logistics tail need only carry equipment and tools and spares for one vehicle family type.

    For light recon type units and for light coin operations the typhoon will be standard.

    Previously if the terrain was poor then BMPs would be preferred over BTRs due to their better cross country performance... in fact in snowy regions MTLB based troop transports were preferred to BMPs for the same reason.

    Currently here are 3 types of motor rifle brigades:

    1. Equipped with BTR-80 APCs. These units will be reequipped with Boomerang APCs/IFVs.

    2. Equipped with MT-LB APCs. MT-LBs will be replaced with Kurganets APCs/IFVs (Mostly APCs, I think)

    3. Equipped with BMPs. Most of these units are using the BMP-2 variant, but there are several brigades that are using BMP-3. Older BMP-1s are retired and are kept in reserve. Kurganets IFVs/APCs (Mostly IFVs) will replace the current BMPs.

    For future armored brigades, I'm not exactly sure, but I think they will have to be equipped with T-15 heavy IFVs, since it's based on the same platform as the T-14, and we are talking about Armata brigades.

    Kurganets brigades will get Kurganets vehicles for troop transport or MBT or ambulance or anti tank or anti aircraft and everything else.

    Boomerang brigades will get boomerang vehicles for troop transport or MBT or ambulance or anti tank or anti aircraft and everything else.

    Armata brigades will get armata vehicles for troop transport or MBT or ambulance or anti tank or anti aircraft and everything else.

    That is the whole point of vehicle families.

    ZU-23-2 23mm (it would be an improvement to see them replaced by ZSU-23-4 Shilkas).

    That is not how it works... if they only had ZU-23-2 then the ZSU-23-4 probably would not be a suitable replacement. Some sort of towed twin barrel 30mm cannon would make rather more sense.

    2B9 Vasilyok 82mm (it would be an improvement to see them replaced by other portable/man-portable mortar of 120mm or of 82mm).

    The Vasilyok is a potent little weapon that is relatively mobile... being a wheeled system. I really could not see a man portable 82mm weapon properly replacing it... the 2B9 has a four round clip magazine and is fully automatic. You could not replace it with a hand loaded mortar and still retain the same performance.

    As shown in Syria the ZU-23 has a range of uses against both ground and air targets and would not be so easy to replace in some roles.

    For instance replacing it with MANPADS would take away its ability to hit ground targets effectively... or small UAVs with small IR signatures...

    You can't say they need to upgrade to this or that system without knowing what they are likely to go up against or what resources they have or have not got... and indeed what terrain they need to operate on.

    If they can only deploy by helicopter to small clearings on the sides of hills then the ZU-23 is rather more use than a Shilka for example.


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    franco
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    Re: Russian Army: Military districts, land units (Locations, equipment and rearmaments)

    Post  franco on Tue Nov 29, 2016 8:13 am

    My take is that the T-15 will replace the BMP's in Tank brigades / regiments, the Kurganets replace BMP brigades / regiments and the Boomerang replaces BTR brigades / regiments. The T-14 replaces all tanks. Those units requiring MT-LBV's will get the new tracked BTR. This will be a slow process of 2-3 brigade / regiments a year or at least 20-25 years.  

    For equipment and not counting support vehicles, a Tank battalion (175 men) has 41 tanks in a Motor Rifle unit (4 companies of 10 each plus a commanders tank) or 31 tanks (140 men) in a Tank unit (3 companies of 10 plus a commanders tank). A BMP battalion (482 men) has 37 BMP's and a BTR / MT-LB battalion (510 men) has 40 BTR's. The difference is that the BMP battalion does not require an anti-tank platoon due to each vehicle already having such, while the BTR / MT-LB battalion employees a 3 vehicle anti-tank platoon (28 men).

    There will also be enough equipment for 6 brigades / regiments of BMP-3's, 9-10 brigades / regiments of BTR-82A / 82AM and 3-4 brigades / regiments of MT-LBV6M in the interim.

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    Re: Russian Army: Military districts, land units (Locations, equipment and rearmaments)

    Post  franco on Wed Nov 30, 2016 10:16 pm

    Russian Army starts forming a new Motor Rifle brigade in the Samara region of the Central Military District. The yet to be identified unit will replace the the 23rd brigade which along with the 28th brigade were transferred into the Western district to form the base of the two Motor Rifle divisions being formed there.

    https://ria.ru/defense_safety/20161130/1482464568.html

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    Re: Russian Army: Military districts, land units (Locations, equipment and rearmaments)

    Post  GarryB on Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:05 am

    My take is that the T-15 will replace the BMP's in Tank brigades / regiments, the Kurganets replace BMP brigades / regiments and the Boomerang replaces BTR brigades / regiments. The T-14 replaces all tanks. Those units requiring MT-LBV's will get the new tracked BTR. This will be a slow process of 2-3 brigade / regiments a year or at least 20-25 years.

    The point is mobility... strategic and tactical... by shortening the logistics tail.

    It would not be a revolutionary concept and vehicle families would not be needed of they were just replacing the T series tanks with Armata and BMPs with Kurganets and BTRs with Boomerang.

    There is an IFV version of the Armata and the Kurganets and the Boomerang... it will have a 57mm cannon and also likely missiles like kornet or something newer.

    We have seen the MBT Armata but that same turret will also be fitted to Kurganets and Boomerang for the tank role in Kurganets and boomerang units.

    I rather suspect the largest number of vehicles will be Boomerang because of their mobility and low cost of operation, though they will rely on new ceramic armour and active and passive defence systems to keep them safe.

    Very simply there will be a range of sensors and weapons on a turret and vehicle modifications for each role... ie for the APC role the Armata actually has a front mounted engine and a specific turret and modified rear hull. The Kurganets APC and Boomerang APC will have the same hull features and turret.

    If they were going to mix and match the different vehicles in each division there would be no need for an Armata APC... they need an Armata APC because all the other vehicles in the unit will be Armata based so they need an Armata based APC.

    Not a totally new concept fundamentally... there are a wide range of MTLB and BTR and BMP and T series tank vehicle modifications like engineer vehicles and command vehicles and artillery and air defence vehicles etc etc. The new concept here is to use one vehicle type in each unit with different modular turrets and arrangements of systems to allow one vehicle type to perform all the roles.

    This means the logistics chain just needs one type of track replacement link, spares and equipment for one type of engine and one type of transmission or wheel etc etc.

    It means all vehicles in one unit will have the same or similar level of mobility and a similar level of protection for the crew.

    In the case of Coalition the turret will likely be no better armoured than MSTA but the crew will enjoy tank levels of protection in the hulls and the same for the other vehicle families with their unmanned turrets.

    It does not make them tank tough... a Pantsir in an Armata brigade will have vulnerable missiles and radar and guns and EO turrets but the crew will be in the hull and safe from most infantry weapons.


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    Re: Russian Army: Military districts, land units (Locations, equipment and rearmaments)

    Post  eehnie on Sat Dec 03, 2016 11:55 am

    franco wrote:My take is that the T-15 will replace the BMP's in Tank brigades / regiments, the Kurganets replace BMP brigades / regiments and the Boomerang replaces BTR brigades / regiments. The T-14 replaces all tanks. Those units requiring MT-LBV's will get the new tracked BTR. This will be a slow process of 2-3 brigade / regiments a year or at least 20-25 years.  

    For equipment and not counting support vehicles, a Tank battalion (175 men) has 41 tanks in a Motor Rifle unit (4 companies of 10 each plus a commanders tank) or 31 tanks (140 men) in a Tank unit (3 companies of 10 plus a commanders tank). A BMP battalion (482 men) has 37 BMP's and a BTR / MT-LB battalion (510 men) has 40 BTR's. The difference is that the BMP battalion does not require an anti-tank platoon due to each vehicle already having such, while the BTR / MT-LB battalion employees a 3 vehicle anti-tank platoon (28 men).

    There will also be enough equipment for 6 brigades / regiments of BMP-3's,  9-10 brigades / regiments of BTR-82A / 82AM and 3-4 brigades / regiments of MT-LBV6M in the interim.

    This is a very logical approach. I think just the same. In the refered to the tracked BTRs replacing the MT-LB, I think the same philosophy will be followed with Armata APC (or T-15, not sure if a low armed armata based APC will be done) in the units with tanks and Kurganets APC in the units without tanks.

    I also think the artillery and MRLS units can be totally covered with self propelled pieces based on the Armata, Kurganets and Bumerang platforms. 240mm and 203mm artillery calibers likely only in the Armata platform.

    Finally, the Typhoon platform can be likely the basis for other types of independent units (SpetsNaz,...). And the BMD-4M platform can be likely the platform for Airborne Troops and Marine Infantry vehicles.

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    Re: Russian Army: Military districts, land units (Locations, equipment and rearmaments)

    Post  franco on Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:34 pm

    We have seen the MBT Armata but that same turret will also be fitted to Kurganets and Boomerang for the tank role in Kurganets and boomerang units.

    I don't see this happening for the following reasons;

    - military has already looked at a wheeled tank and ruled it out
    - have not seen any development of a Kurganents tank.
    - long term plans for 2300 plus Armata's at a time when there are around 2600 tanks fielded in Russian tank battalions
    - believe the original intent was to create single model based units back 10 years ago when the R&D started but the decision to retain a more conventional approach has since been taken.
    - of course I have been wrong before Suspect and undoubtedly again Embarassed


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    Re: Russian Army: Military districts, land units (Locations, equipment and rearmaments)

    Post  GarryB Yesterday at 12:45 am

    - have not seen any development of a Kurganents tank.

    If they can put a 125mm gun on the Sprut then they can put one on the Kurganets and the Boomerang.

    - military has already looked at a wheeled tank and ruled it out

    Or did they look at in service foreign wheeled tanks and reject them?

    - long term plans for 2300 plus Armata's at a time when there are around 2600 tanks fielded in Russian tank battalions

    The CFE agreement limited Russia to 6,000 tanks in Europe... I realise it currently does not apply but gives you an idea of how many tanks they would normally have in theatre... ie 2,500 or so in service and 3,500 in storage/reserve.

    Did they say 2,300 Armata MBTs or did they say 2,300 Armatas? Because half will be troop transports even if they don't make any other type.

    - believe the original intent was to create single model based units back 10 years ago when the R&D started but the decision to retain a more conventional approach has since been taken.

    It has been mentioned several times that these are vehicle families that will expand to include all the vehicle types currently in service...

    - of course I have been wrong before Suspect and undoubtedly again Embarassed

    And I can say the same... but the whole point is mobility and matching forces to situations/terrains.

    The uparmoured BMP-2 was popular in Afghanistan because of its mobility and fire power and to reach high angle targets with its cannon. The BTR-80 was popular because of its mobility, but its light armour let it down... Boomerang will be a cross between a BMP-2 and a BTR-80... especially with active protection and all the likely sophisticated systems it will be fitted with... like audio shot detection systems, night and all weather optics, special NERA armour, likely UAVs and other things to make them more capable on the modern battlefield.


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    Re: Russian Army: Military districts, land units (Locations, equipment and rearmaments)

    Post  Benya Yesterday at 8:49 am

    GarryB wrote:Did they say 2,300 Armata MBTs or did they say 2,300 Armatas? Because half will be troop transports even if they don't make any other type.

    2,300 T-14 MBTs for sure, and I would say that at least 600-800 T-15 heavy IFVs (for tank divisions/brigades), 60-100 BREM-16 ARVs (4-6 in an Armata brigade, 8-12 in an Armata division), 30-40 TOS-2s heavy flamethrowers (3 vehicles in each NBC defense regiment, plus in some NBC defense brigades) and 60-80 TZM-2 transloaders (2 for each TOS-2), 280-380 BMO-2s (18 in each NBC defense regiment (currently 11 regiments), and in each NBC defense brigade (5 brigades at the moment), plus 3 in every motor rifle brigade's NBC defense company), 800-1000 2S35 Koalitsiya-SV SP howitzers (18-36 in a motor rifle/tank brigade, and at least 36 or more in an artillery brigade). I think that if the Army wants to replace all 2S3 "Akatsiyas", 2S5 "Giatsints" and 2S19 "Mstas" in the long term, they will need a lot of Koalitsiyas.

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    Re: Russian Army: Military districts, land units (Locations, equipment and rearmaments)

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