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    Russia's 6th-generation fighters

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    Arrow

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    Re: Russia's 6th-generation fighters

    Post  Arrow on Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:19 am

    You think that this model may be related to some real work?
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    Re: Russia's 6th-generation fighters

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Tue Nov 20, 2018 7:16 pm

    Arrow wrote:You think that this model may be related to some real work?

    Long time ago there was an interview with Pogosyan. Before first flight of PAK FA.  On his desk there was a small model of fighter. None of Su-27 lines. Couple years later during first PAK FA flight- wow DAT was same as models on Pogo's desk...



    IMHO It might be anything they work on now, not necessarily PAK DP tho. Perhaps only "accompanying drone" of unmanned VSTOL ? Wink  BTW PAK DA (or MiG-41) wont be hypersonic according to MoD. It's top speed should be 4-4,3 MA ~ 4,500km/h.
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    hoom

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    Re: Russia's 6th-generation fighters

    Post  hoom on Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:08 pm

    US media should pay attention.
    Thats what real Russian trolling looks like  Laughing

    Its definitely the MiG-37 model. http://charly015.blogspot.com/2018/11/la-polemica-de-los-ultimos-dias.html

    vs



    My mind went straight to that model but I didn't google it & then my brain got confused with the F-19 model & decided my first thought was wrong.


    Edit: there is a certain fascinating similarity to this actual modern windtunnel model though  Suspect


    http://charly015.blogspot.com/2018/11/diseno-civil-supersonico-desde-el-tsagi.html
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    Re: Russia's 6th-generation fighters

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:56 pm

    hoom wrote:US media should pay attention.
    Thats what real Russian trolling looks like  Laughing

    Its definitely the MiG-37 model.

    Why do you think so? MiG in Sukhoi R&D?

    Below is real LMFI Sukhoi proposal ~20 years ago, according to old ipraray forums. Perhaps in Sukhoi they returned to do some conceptual work. Nothing was really seen to consider it Rorschach test. Some see MiG-37 some see naked chick Razz Razz Razz





    Edit: there is a certain fascinating similarity to this actual modern windtunnel model though  Suspect

    looks like supersonic business jet in TSAGI to me.

    http://www.tsagi.ru/pressroom/news/3937/
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    hoom

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    Re: Russia's 6th-generation fighters

    Post  hoom on Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:29 am

    Why do you think so? MiG in Sukhoi R&D?
    Because Russians have magnificent sense of humor like that & I appreciate it.

    Its not an actual MiG, its some BS made up by a US model company back in the late 80s, the joke is the important thing.


    looks like supersonic business jet in TSAGI to me.
    Yes.

    This one is a recent US concept even closer config


    Fascinating how a bit of madeup '80s bollocks actually winds up with significant config similarity to serious designs decades later.
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    Re: Russia's 6th-generation fighters

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Nov 23, 2018 3:28 am

    hoom wrote: Its not an actual MiG, its some BS made up by a US model company back in the late 80s, the joke is the important thing.

    This is not what I meant, I was pointing fo absurdity of explanation by journos/bloggers.

    Fascinating how a bit of madeup '80s bollocks actually winds up with significant config similarity to serious designs decades later.

    IMHO this was neither trolling nor bollocks from Sukhoi side. All 6-th gen story was invented by bloggers and journos, who are paid by number of clicks Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
    The fact is : Sukhoi is constantly researching different new technologies and 6th gen fighter is being designed since couple of years.


    Was it a research project (like all X in NASA) ? is it any drone test? or scaled model of any fighter? Dunno, but I am sure this was no trolling. Only trolling is in media ;-)
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    Re: Russia's 6th-generation fighters

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Nov 24, 2018 4:09 am

    Perhaps this  hypersoonic  after all? There should be hypersonic UACV in testing now.



    Russian hypersonic aircraft passes ground tests : September 2018


    GELENDZHIK / Krasnodar Territory /, September 7. / Tass /. The development of a Russian hypersonic aircraft is at the stage of producing prototypes and conducting ground tests, TASS reported on the sidelines of Gidroaviasalon-2018, first deputy general director - deputy for research and development of Tactical Missile Corporation JSC Vladimir Yarmolyuk.

    “[At the stage of] developing prototypes and conducting ground tests. We are not lagging behind our potential partners,” Yarmolyuk said, answering the question of what stage the development of this device is at.

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5535946



    Hypersonic drones  : July 2017

    Hypersonic unmanned aerial vehicles will appear in Russia in 2020, said Obnosov.

    “The second direction is when long-term flight control at hypersonic speeds takes place. It’s very difficult to solve this problem even at low hypersonic speeds of six to seven max. ", - he said.

    Obnosov also noted that "work is underway in this direction, serious work is under way in the engines, based on materials and systems." He also acknowledged that there are complications too, because these are "serious developments".

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/4427306
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    Re: Russia's 6th-generation fighters

    Post  LMFS on Sat Nov 24, 2018 5:43 am

    These drones would make a lot of sense as wingmen of the MiG-41... hence reducing the need for the new interceptor to be hypersonic itself
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    Re: Russia's 6th-generation fighters

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Nov 24, 2018 3:25 pm

    LMFS wrote:These drones would make a lot of sense as wingmen of the MiG-41... hence reducing the need for the new interceptor to be hypersonic itself

    MiG-41 at least for now will be no hypersonic. 4,3 Ma according to what MoD say. i wonder what made MoD to choose such speed? air compression heating? speed of reaching some point? dynamic ceiling?

    As for drones - they can have g overload in ranges that'd kill a man. But not sure if in case of interceptors will be used. Tha hardest part here would be AI platform that can understand what is going on with such speed.

    So efficient algorithms + very powerful computers.
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    Re: Russia's 6th-generation fighters

    Post  GarryB on Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:51 am

    I don't think that model is the MiG-37 Ferret by Italieri... the wing sweep back on the model seen is sharper than the Ferret model which doesn't have a serious sweep back at all.
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    Re: Russia's 6th-generation fighters

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Nov 25, 2018 10:24 am

    here is  allegedly hypersonic drone from China.









    and now compare to pics from Zvezda...Well does it ring the bell?





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    Re: Russia's 6th-generation fighters

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Dec 30, 2018 1:01 pm

    Armed forces of Russia will gradually move to the technology of the sixth generation


    The head of the Committee of the Federation of Defense and Security, Viktor Bondarev, said that this is a "smooth, progressive transition"


    MOSCOW, December 26th. / TASS /. The Armed Forces (VS) of Russia will move on to the sixth generation of technology, including unmanned aerial drums, smoothly and gradually, making sure that the machines of previous versions are reliable. About this in an interview with TASS said the former commander in chief of the Aerospace Forces, Chairman of the Federation Council Committee on Defense and Security, Viktor Bondarev.

    He assured that the Russian army will certainly develop technologically, but this is a "smooth, progressive transition to the sixth generation technology." “Of course, thoroughly“ rolling in ”the fifth. Because you can’t jump over any stage of development in any way, as some call it,” the senator stressed.

    He clarified that "in terms of the development of military aviation, there are separate proposals of this nature: bypassing the full-fledged introduction of the fifth-generation multifunctional fighter Su-57, leave this aircraft in a pre-production version and go on to develop the sixth generation fighter - the so-called attack drone." "But everything that has not passed the test of time, experience, diverse combat practice cannot serve as a reliable support, base, and finally, a springboard for new achievements," the head of the defense committee said.


    https://tass.ru/politika/5953533


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    Re: Russia's 6th-generation fighters

    Post  Hole on Sun Dec 30, 2018 5:08 pm

    Unmanned aerial drums? Shocked dunno unshaven
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    Re: Russia's 6th-generation fighters

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Dec 31, 2018 3:33 am

    Hole wrote:Unmanned aerial drums? Shocked dunno unshaven


    didn you know that drummers are aggressive musicians? lol1 lol1 lol1


    ударный беспилотник - udarnyi bespilotnik - an attack drone - auto translators used terms as separate words with context unrelated meanings

    udarnyi can mean percussion and attack

    bespilotnik - is drone but literately like pilotless aircraft - or drone



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    Re: Russia's 6th-generation fighters

    Post  higurashihougi on Tue Jan 01, 2019 3:58 am

    As far as I know the most challenging obstacle for drones, air and ground, now is communication line, how to establish reliable and high power comms so that people can safely monitor and control the drones from good distance without the risk of enemy interception or natural communication lost.

    If I remember correctly, the Russians are unsatisfied with the communications of Uran-9 in Syria and they are trying to do something to fix.
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    Re: Russia's 6th-generation fighters

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Tue Jan 01, 2019 3:00 pm

    higurashihougi wrote:As far as I know the most challenging obstacle for drones, air and ground, now is communication line, how to establish reliable and high power comms so that people can safely monitor and control the drones from good distance without the risk of enemy interception or natural communication lost..


    rather autonomous modes are still on too early stages of development. comms are always important but bring autonomous is crucial here
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    Re: Russia's 6th-generation fighters

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:53 am

    The problem is to get autonomy, but also make sure it does not do the wrong thing like target your troops or allied troops or non combatants for that matter...

    Most of the time keeping communication and a man in the loop is best... even if you need a drone that operates overhead of a ground based unmanned vehicle as a data link to allow control of the vehicle and its weapons...

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