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    Russia's 6th-generation fighters

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    Mindstorm

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    Re: Russia's 6th-generation fighters

    Post  Mindstorm on Fri Jul 28, 2017 12:35 pm


    Very informative interview with Chief deputy Director at КРЭТ , Владимир Михеев.


    Topic touched :


    - Radio-photonic sensor and EW suit for next generation aircraft and the revolutionary capabilities it will provide

    - Microwave weapons for next generation unmanned vehicles

    - Laser system for active protection against enemy missiles

    - Defensive systems against enemy direct energy weapons

    - Main features of perspective UCAV (hypersonic speed, hypermaneuvrability, capability to travel in near space)

    - Organization of future air squad with a mix of 20-30 UCAV for each manned aircraft



    http://tass.ru/opinions/interviews/4441543


    Austin

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    Re: Russia's 6th-generation fighters

    Post  Austin on Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:17 am

    New details of the research project "Hunter-B" and the design of the unmanned aerial vehicle S-70

    Some additional details on the development of the unobtrusive unmanned S-70 unmanned aircraft in Russia ("Hunter-B" research project) are reported by Piotr Butowski in the note " Au-dela du Su-57: le Su-70 Okhotnik " published by Air & Cosmos .

    So, the author notes that on October 14, 2011, the Russian Ministry of Defense instructed Sukhoi Company (Sukhoi Design Bureau) to begin research work on the topic "Hunter", whose goal is to create an unmanned reconnaissance and strike system that would have a large Speed ​​and autonomy.In those rare documents where there is mention of the "Hunter", it is characterized as "unmanned aerial vehicle of the sixth generation"


    Expected appearance of UAV C-70 development Sukhoi Design Bureau (with) Piotr Butowski / Air & Cosmos


    Within the framework of the research project "Hunter" Sukhoi Design Bureau is developing a project designated as S-70. According to information to be checked, the S-70 demonstrator was manufactured at the Novosibirsk Aviation Plant named after V.P. Chkalov - a branch of JSC "Company" Sukhoi ". The first flight is scheduled for 2018.

    The specific characteristics of the S-70 are unknown, only guesswork can be built. The weight of the UAV is in the range of 10-20 tons, and the maximum speed is estimated at 1000 km / h. Complex with the S-70 unmanned aerial vehicle for the Hunter-B research project (c) Russian Ministry of Defense (via paralay.iboards.ru)



    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2758207.html
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Russia's 6th-generation fighters

    Post  KiloGolf on Sun Jul 30, 2017 10:38 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:Not only Ruskies copied design but 30 years earlier make couple of successful orbital and unmanned flights?  But West has shown their moral superiority, only in own opinion of course Smile

    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Космос-1374



    i ask why CCCP not West or at least  Musk or NASA?

    There's nothing moral in the West. It's all about the cash (see Concorde).
    USSR collapsed because they couldn't figure out that very simple concept. Nobody cares about orbital unmanned flights, unless it's on the new iphone.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russia's 6th-generation fighters

    Post  GarryB on Sun Jul 30, 2017 12:42 pm

    The outside looks rather a lot like MiGs Skat.

    BTW what were the first 5 generations of UCAV that makes this the sixth?
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    Isos

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    Re: Russia's 6th-generation fighters

    Post  Isos on Sun Jul 30, 2017 6:33 pm

    GarryB wrote:The outside looks rather a lot like MiGs Skat.

    BTW what were the first 5 generations of UCAV that makes this the sixth?

    That's stupid to class them by generation. A fighter of the 6th generataion is by US standards a fighter without pilot, so a drone, so not a fighter at all. According to me it is much more probable to see space fighters that are manned and that go in the space than a drone that can "decide" like a man. The paradoxe is that even if computers are much much faster than a man, the man will allways decide faster than the computer and in case of critical decision it is always better to have a man in the cockpit.

    If the drone meets a situation that isn't in its database the consequences can be very dangerous. Like bombing civilians or destroying a civilian jet because of a bug in its IFF while the pilot could have seen it is a civilian jet. And I'm not talking about the terrorist hacking them and using them against civilians. Look all the systems that anyone could have took from irakian and syrian armies during the war. Imagine they achieve to take the system that Iran used to hack the US drone that was shown on TV. I'm not sure governments should let armies use drones, at least not armed drones.

    T-47

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    Re: Russia's 6th-generation fighters

    Post  T-47 on Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:23 pm

    GarryB wrote:The outside looks rather a lot like MiGs Skat.

    Yeah I heard about that a few years ago, ~2013 I guess. That all MiG-Skat development will be supervised by Sukhoi, even the engineers working on that project.

    BTW what were the first 5 generations of UCAV that makes this the sixth?

    With Stalin I suppose Razz Razz

    Isos wrote:That's stupid to class them by generation. A fighter of the 6th generataion is by US standards a fighter without pilot, so a drone, so not a fighter at all. According to me it is much more probable to see space fighters that are manned and that go in the space than a drone that can "decide" like a man. The paradoxe is that even if computers are much much faster than a man, the man will allways decide faster than the computer and in case of critical decision it is always better to have a man in the cockpit.

    If the drone meets a situation that isn't in its database the consequences can be very dangerous. Like bombing civilians or destroying a civilian jet because of a bug in its IFF while the pilot could have seen it is a civilian jet. And I'm not talking about the terrorist hacking them and using them against civilians. Look all the systems that anyone could have took from irakian and syrian armies during the war. Imagine they achieve to take the system that Iran used to hack the US drone that was shown on TV. I'm not sure governments should let armies use drones, at least not armed drones.


    I agree with you in some part. But I prefer armed drones for suicide mission, like kamikaze or very highly defended targets.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russia's 6th-generation fighters

    Post  GarryB on Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:53 am

    The paradox is that if it is a suicide drone then it needs to be very cheap, but very cheap means no ESM equipment and few backup systems... it makes it very easy to shoot down, which means you need thousands of them and not dozens.

    As an example a hind helicopter can fly along side a slow flying drone and a soldier can lean out the rear cabin door and shoot the drone down with a rifle calibre machine gun like a PKM... very cheap and easy to destroy lots of drones this way...

    A more capable drone that can defend itself is going to be much more expensive because being self aware needs sensors and to fight back you need weapons...
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    Isos

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    Re: Russia's 6th-generation fighters

    Post  Isos on Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:45 pm

    Suicide drones are just slow cruise missiles. You can't make them cheap because they will use same softwares and hardwares as cruise missile. Unless you use small civilian drones remotly controled ...

    As garry said their ability to achieve their missions is small.
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    George1

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    Re: Russia's 6th-generation fighters

    Post  George1 on Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:08 pm

    Russia launches work to develop sixth-generation fighter jet

    The new military aircraft will be able to develop hyper-sonic speed

    MOSCOW, August 24. /TASS/. Military aircraft developers are creating scientific and technical groundwork for developing the sixth-generation fighter jet, Industry and Trade Minister Denis Manturov told TASS on Thursday.

    "Considering the accumulated experience, our leading developers of military aviation hardware are already preparing scientific and technical groundwork in the field of onboard equipment, power units, armament and air-launched weapon control systems to develop the next-generation aircraft," Manturov said.

    Today Russia is completing work on developing the fifth-generation fighter jet and it is currently undergoing state trials under the PAK FA project, he said.

    Adviser to the first deputy CEO of Radio-Electronic Technologies Group Vladimir Mikheyev earlier told TASS that the sixth-generation fighter jet would be developed in its manned and unmanned versions. The new fighter aircraft will be able to develop hypersonic speed and will be equipped with an electro-magnetic gun and radio-photonic radar system.


    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/961784
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Russia's 6th-generation fighters

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Jul 07, 2018 2:23 am

    In the State Duma, the characteristics of the Russian fighter of the generation 6 ++




    The fighter will have an artificial intelligence and will be able to operate in unmanned mode

    Chairman of the State Duma Commission on Legal Support for the Development of Organizations of the Defense Industry Complex of the Russian Federation Vladimir Gutenev / TASS
    MOSCOW, July 5. / TASS /. Fighter of the sixth generation will have artificial intelligence and will be able to operate in an unmanned mode. Tass said on Thursday the chairman of the State Duma commission for legal support for the development of organizations of the defense industry of the Russian Federation Vladimir Gutenev.

    "One of the main directions will be the increasingly serious introduction of artificial intelligence, not of its individual elements, but of an integrated combat management system, so that the aircraft of the 6+ and 6 ++ generation can operate in a completely autonomous mode, in the mode of serious electronic warfare (REB) preferably in an unmanned version, "he said.

    Gutenev noted that due to the lack of life support systems for the pilot in the sixth generation of combat aircraft, the characteristics of the car will increase with reduced costs and technical volumes. We should expect a radical breakthrough in the means of electronic warfare, the deputy believes.

    "I am sure that we will witness new technical solutions that will not increase by 10%, but at times increase the effectiveness of EW systems," he stressed. Gutenev noted that the stealth technology will play less and less due to the expansion of the range of airspace scanning, which will allow detecting small and unobtrusive targets at a great distance.

    The deputy noted that the super maneuverability will go into the background. "Maneuverability is unlikely to be improved: the deviated vector of engines allows us to achieve super-maneuverability." The increase in cruising speed will be unprincipled, it will slightly exceed the speed of sound, "Gutenev said. But in the afterburner modes, in his opinion, the speed will approach hypersound, which will quickly overcome the defensive lines.

    "The introduction of additive technologies and composite materials will make the aircraft more efficient due to better maintainability and further upgrades," Gutenev said. He believes that as the ideas and their scientific and technical implementation arise, a smooth upgrade will be made, when the characteristics increase substantially every four years without changing the glider, in contrast to the 4+ and 4 ++ generation machines.


    Подробнее на ТАСС:
    http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5350736
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    LMFS

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    Re: Russia's 6th-generation fighters

    Post  LMFS on Sat Jul 07, 2018 3:23 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:

    In the State Duma, the characteristics of the Russian fighter of the generation 6 ++





    The fighter will have an artificial intelligence and will be able to operate in unmanned mode

    Chairman of the State Duma Commission on Legal Support for the Development of Organizations of the Defense Industry Complex of the Russian Federation Vladimir Gutenev   / TASS
    MOSCOW, July 5. / TASS /. Fighter of the sixth generation will have artificial intelligence and will be able to operate in an unmanned mode. Tass said on Thursday the chairman of the State Duma commission for legal support for the development of organizations of the defense industry of the Russian Federation Vladimir Gutenev.

    "One of the main directions will be the increasingly serious introduction of artificial intelligence, not of its individual elements, but of an integrated combat management system, so that the aircraft of the 6+ and 6 ++ generation can operate in a completely autonomous mode, in the mode of serious electronic warfare (REB) preferably in an unmanned version, "he said.

    Gutenev noted that due to the lack of life support systems for the pilot in the sixth generation of combat aircraft, the characteristics of the car will increase with reduced costs and technical volumes. We should expect a radical breakthrough in the means of electronic warfare, the deputy believes.

    "I am sure that we will witness new technical solutions that will not increase by 10%, but at times increase the effectiveness of EW systems," he stressed. Gutenev noted that the stealth technology will play less and less due to the expansion of the range of airspace scanning, which will allow detecting small and unobtrusive targets at a great distance.

    The deputy noted that the super maneuverability will go into the background. "Maneuverability is unlikely to be improved: the deviated vector of engines allows us to achieve super-maneuverability." The increase in cruising speed will be unprincipled, it will slightly exceed the speed of sound, "Gutenev said. But in the afterburner modes, in his opinion, the speed will approach hypersound, which will quickly overcome the defensive lines.

    "The introduction of additive technologies and composite materials will make the aircraft more efficient due to better maintainability and further upgrades," Gutenev said. He believes that as the ideas and their scientific and technical implementation arise, a smooth upgrade will be made, when the characteristics increase substantially every four years without changing the glider, in contrast to the 4+ and 4 ++ generation machines.


    Подробнее на ТАСС:
    http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5350736

    I saw these statements, they make me wonder if this guy was not stoned while talking about the PAK-FA or simply spoke so vaguely that online translators only manage to spit nonsense.

    For instance: "Manoeuvrability is unlikely to be improved: the deviated vector of engines allows us to achieve super-manoeuvrability."
    WTF? Is this guy aware of human limits for accelerations and that this precisely is one of the best advantages of unmanned aircraft? An UCAV could be built to 15 or 20 g, why not?

    "Cruise speed will slightly exceed speed of sound" For what? To consume more fuel for no clear advantage in speed compared to subsonic flight? But in AB it will be hypersonic... sure

    Weird weird Suspect
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    Isos

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    Re: Russia's 6th-generation fighters

    Post  Isos on Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:57 am

    LOL they needed israeli help for small drones you can find in every supermarket and they are talking about 6th gen fighter ..... they should know when to stop saying BS.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Russia's 6th-generation fighters

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:23 pm

    Isos wrote:LOL they needed israeli help for small drones you can find in every supermarket and they are talking about 6th gen fighter ..... they should know when to stop saying BS.

    Seriously they bought any now? perhaps you can stop your BS. Better tell me about famous French drone industry Smile


    PS neither France nor Israel are on level V with fighters . Oh yeah France is gonna have one 30 years after Russia? or later. With solid German funding.



    Last edited by GunshipDemocracy on Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Russia's 6th-generation fighters

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:29 pm

    LMFS wrote:
    For instance: "Manoeuvrability is unlikely to be improved: the deviated vector of engines allows us to achieve super-manoeuvrability."
    WTF? Is this guy aware of human limits for accelerations and that this precisely is one of the best advantages of unmanned aircraft? An UCAV could be built to 15 or 20 g, why not?

    not in manned mode though


    "Cruise speed will slightly exceed speed of sound" For what? To consume more fuel for no clear advantage in speed compared to subsonic flight?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercruise

    it exists today


    But in AB it will be hypersonic... sure Weird weird Suspect

    They mentioned on other sites 4-5Ma so closer to MiG-41. afterburner is unlikely if they use ramjets tho.
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    LMFS

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    Re: Russia's 6th-generation fighters

    Post  LMFS on Sat Jul 07, 2018 1:17 pm

    @GunshipDemocracy: it is all expressed in a very odd and vague way. What means slightly over 1 M? Supercruise at 1,8 M like F-22 is not "slightly" above 1 M, but actually faster than max speed of F-35 and twice as fast as normal subsonic cruise, so tactically very significant.

    Not going to give much credibility to this guy, honestly Rolling Eyes
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    Isos

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    Re: Russia's 6th-generation fighters

    Post  Isos on Sat Jul 07, 2018 1:17 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    Isos wrote:LOL they needed israeli help for small drones you can find in every supermarket and they are talking about 6th gen fighter ..... they should know when to stop saying BS.

    Seriously they bought any now? perhaps you can stop your BS. Better tell me about famous French drone industry Smile


    PS neither France nor Israel are on level V with fighters . Oh yeah France is gonna have one 30 years after Russia? or later. With solid German funding.


    Israel don't produce fighter but they are involved in f-35. French make very good fighters but they are expensive because US destroy their market as much as they can. They could easily make a 5th gen fighter but no money available and no one would buy it as most of countries have already decided to buy 4++ or 5 th gen fighter.

    French haven't invested a lot in drones but israeli ones are far better than russian's drones.

    There is a BIG difference between a drone like orlan 10 and a fighter capable of doing a mission by its own. Those 6th gen fighter today would be much more closer to a drone than an actual fighter. And the price would be huge to have them.
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    LMFS

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    Re: Russia's 6th-generation fighters

    Post  LMFS on Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:25 pm

    Russia to develop advanced radio-photonic radars for 6th-generation fighter jets


    Such radars "will be able to provide radio wave imaging when an image has greater details with the possibility to identify the target type"

    MOSCOW, July 9. /TASS/. Radio-photonic radars for unmanned aerial vehicles and aircraft will be created in Russia in several years to get an accurate target image, the press office of RTI Group told TASS on Monday.

    As was reported earlier, radio-photonic radars are expected to be mounted on Russian sixth-generation fighter jets. This station sees considerably further than a conventional radar and will be capable of building actually a photographic image of the target that will be identified automatically.

    As the press office said, RTI Group is completing R&D work in 2018 on creating a mockup of the X-band radio-photonic radar. Following its results, specialists "will determine a principal scheme of building the radio-photonic locator," which will make it possible "in several years to build prototypes of super-light and small-size radars for unmanned aerial vehicles."

    Such radars "will be able to provide radio wave imaging when an image has greater details with the possibility to identify the target type," the RTI Group press office said.

    Such radars will have a considerably smaller weight and size and consume less power both on drones and aircraft.
    Russia starts producing radar components

    The new station will generate a radar signal by converting photonic crystal laser energy. The production of such lasers is already beginning in Russia, the press office said.

    "RTI Group is launching the first technological line in Russia for the production of lasers for making promising radio-photonic radars," the press office said.

    RTI Group CEO Maxim Kuzyuk was quoted by the press office as saying that "we in RTI are seeking to make the production cycle of integral radio-photonic circuits for radars fully local to participate effectively in the rapidly developing area, which can become a guarantor of the country’s security."

    RTI Group has been carrying out work on developing radio-photonic radars on its own initiative for several years now.


    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/1012445

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