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    Avangard hypersonic glide vehicle (“object 4202”)

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    GarryB
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    Re: Avangard hypersonic glide vehicle (“object 4202”)

    Post  GarryB on Sun Nov 04, 2018 3:56 am

    Personally I like the idea of these 100MT warheads they were working on... fit them to new IRBMs and openly talk about them as a deterrent... 5 of these weapons will be launched at any country in Europe that allows US ABM systems or US troops on their soil... one or two of these weapons will be aimed at the US bases and the other missiles will hit population centres or areas of interest within those states...

    It would further make it clear to EU and NATO states that Russia is not interested in invading europe... just in obliterating it as a threat.

    The key to peace in Europe is not to make Russia think you are a threat.

    Also with the decision to resume development of a space shuttle type platform, they could modify the large powerful Energyia replacement that will take the shuttle up into space with a fairing that can hold hundreds of Avangard type gliders where the shuttle would normally be mounted.

    Upon launch the entire fairing could be put into orbit and remain there for days or even weeks before perhaps 5 or 6 100MT warheads could be released over the north pole having just passed over CONUS  and accelerated and flown down to a lower orbit so it is going around the planet faster than the main payload and when it gets over CONUS again after passing over the south pole and south america they could explode in the upper atmosphere in advance of the real payload which could be released over the south pole in a higher slower orbit by the time they start raining down on the US all the radar and radio communications will be disabled... in fact with the 100MT bursts even a standard warhead would do... no need for advanced gliders... just pack thousands of 500KT bombs with deorbit motors that are designed to scatter at a suitable distance to get a good random coverage of the entire US.

    For something flying 15Ma above clouds?

    Speed is not relevant, and clouds only block visible light they don't block every frequency...
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    Re: Avangard hypersonic glide vehicle (“object 4202”)

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Nov 04, 2018 6:12 am

    GarryB wrote:
    For something flying 15Ma  above clouds?

    Speed is not relevant, and clouds only block visible light they don't block every frequency...

    it was about Lasers, so clouds or humidity dont affect light?
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    Re: Avangard hypersonic glide vehicle (“object 4202”)

    Post  Hole on Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:33 am

    They also effect the optical seeker in the nose of the missile. If the thing comes down to earth and starts looking for his target… Bzzzz. Laser!

    Peresvet is more a strategic system against satellites (supposedly). But in a few years there will be operational and tactical systems against other targets.

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    Re: Avangard hypersonic glide vehicle (“object 4202”)

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:50 am

    Hole wrote:They also effect the optical seeker in the nose of the missile. If the thing comes down to earth and starts looking for his target… Bzzzz. Laser!

    Peresvet is more a strategic system against satellites (supposedly). But in a few years there will be operational and tactical systems against other targets.



    Iftargetting is so precise why not,but for unknown trajectory (unlike sats) I have doubt it can be done. Just 2d control mechanisms speed might be not enough to target laser in right spot. small difference and your shoot is early useless.
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    Re: Avangard hypersonic glide vehicle (“object 4202”)

    Post  GarryB on Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:59 am

    it was about Lasers, so clouds or humidity dont affect light?

    Humidity doesn't effect light... precipitation does, but no humidity.

    And light effected by clouds and rain is visible light...

    You were talking about optical sensors... if the laser can't get to them through clouds or rain then it does not need to get to it to blind it....
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    Re: Avangard hypersonic glide vehicle (“object 4202”)

    Post  Teshub on Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:36 am

    GarryB wrote:
    it was about Lasers, so clouds or humidity dont affect light?

    Humidity doesn't effect light... precipitation does, but no humidity.

    And light effected by clouds and rain is visible light...

    You were talking about optical sensors... if the laser can't get to them through clouds or rain then it does not need to get to it to blind it....
    A small correction. Actually humidity does affect light, but the amount varies according to wavelength and is relatively negligible compared to air pressure and temperature.
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    Re: Avangard hypersonic glide vehicle (“object 4202”)

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:40 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    it was about Lasers, so clouds or humidity dont affect light?

    Humidity doesn't effect light... precipitation does, but no humidity.

    And light effected by clouds and rain is visible light...

    You were talking about optical sensors... if the laser can't get to them through clouds or rain then it does not need to get to it to blind it....


    Than laser is useless for such application because form clouds base till earth you have a fraction of second and automated celestial nav+ inertial guidance on laser gyroscopes can pretty well do their job.

    Peresvet is not to fight with ICBMs but satellites (you know when and where to look for one), perhaps CMs or aircraft.
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    Re: Avangard hypersonic glide vehicle (“object 4202”)

    Post  GarryB on Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:34 am

    The laser is not the only system there... there will be a lot of other systems trying to interfere with incoming threats... it is just another tool in the tool box.

    A good example would be Pantsir in Syria... most of the time they will use missiles and not guns... which is not to say guns are useless or even that they should be removed... there are certain situations and targets where guns are more suitable.

    Especially with airburst ammo as it would reduce the threat to friendlies in the area...
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    Re: Avangard hypersonic glide vehicle (“object 4202”)

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:16 am

    IMHO pantsir is unlikely to be effective against something as Avangard (25Ma) but Pantsir SM missiles should have top speed 7Ma (in low altitude this means  ~2350m/s) , with such speeds S-400 missiles can engage 4,899km/s targets...

    As for landing warheads, there was already in Soviet union very simple yet effective system of protection nuclear missile silos.  Hundreds or steel rods in ground around siloes. They are ready to be  launched as steel barrier to anything that comes in.  Now imagine 1-2 tons steel hitting you with speed of incoming missile (8-10-20Ma)?

    Whatever is used to stop hyperosnic missile either have to be quick and precise (and powerful) like DEW or massive and in right palce and time.
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    Re: Avangard hypersonic glide vehicle (“object 4202”)

    Post  Hole on Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:01 am

    Protection system for silos. Made it to the prototype stage.


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    Re: Avangard hypersonic glide vehicle (“object 4202”)

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Nov 11, 2018 1:28 pm

    Hole wrote:Protection system for silos. Made it to the prototype stage.
    T
    those guns are in which sense? (BTW they look as 45mm semiautomatic from early 50s) ? Guns vs warhead then what energy they can deliver ?


    System I was talking about with steel rods (many of them of course) was real, Ill try to find its name.
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    Re: Avangard hypersonic glide vehicle (“object 4202”)

    Post  Isos on Sun Nov 11, 2018 2:56 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    Hole wrote:Protection system for silos. Made it to the prototype stage.
    T
    those  guns are  in which sense? (BTW they look as 45mm semiautomatic from early 50s) ? Guns vs warhead then what energy they can deliver ?


    System I was talking about with steel rods (many of them of course) was real, Ill try to find its name.  

    The article about the thing on the picture above. I don't understand russian so don't ask me anything.

    https://militaryrussia.livejournal.com/425795.html
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    Re: Avangard hypersonic glide vehicle (“object 4202”)

    Post  Hole on Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:16 pm

    You can translate it, but the german version is harder to grasp as the russian one. geek
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    Re: Avangard hypersonic glide vehicle (“object 4202”)

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:37 pm

    very interesting stuff but shitty graphics Razz Razz Razz

    http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-604.html

    use auto translator, not perfect but better then nothing lol1 lol1 lol1

    OCD Mazyr / Kamchatka PRO

    DATA FOR 2018 (standard replenishment)
    ROC "Mozyr" / product "171" / "Kamchatskaya PRO "


    The complex of active protection of silo launchers of the ICBM of the Strategic Missile Forces. The development of the active defense system of the MBU missile defense system from the attack of the ballistic missile warheads (including the ICBMs) was carried out by the machine-building design bureau (Kolomna) under the general guidance of SP Nepovedy since the mid-1970s. Chief Designer of KAZ - N.I. Guschin. In 1979, the department of KBM, which was engaged in the creation of the KAZ product "171" was headed by V.M. Kashin (headed the department in 1979 to 1985). Creating complex directly oversaw the Soviet Defense Minister Ustinov and it is believed that the complex was designed to protect future ICBM silos R-36M2 "Voivod" .

    Although the creation of the infrastructure for testing the complex was started in 1980-1981, the USSR Council of Ministers’s Resolution on the development and testing in real conditions at the Kura test site of the experimental complex was issued only in 1984. The creation of the system involved 250 enterprises of 22 ministries. Probably, in the second half of the 1980s - the beginning of the 1990s, the prototype of the KAZ ShPU MBR passed tests at the Kura test site on Kamchatka Peninsula (military unit 25522, Klyuchi-1).

    For testing at the Kura test site, probably between 1985 and 1988 An imitation of a mine-type PU of an ICBM of the OS type was built, and a prototype of an active protection complex was placed around the silo silo. During the tests in the late 1980s, a low-altitude non-nuclear interception of an imitator of an ICBM combat unit launched from the Plesetsk test site (according to other data from Baikonur) was first carried out. Also some late sources report that several such interceptions have been carried out (source - Gundarov ).

    State tests of the experimental installation of the product "171" completed in September 1991 (the source - Gundarov). Funding for work was discontinued in August 1991. This development did not contradict the 1972 ABM Treaty. In 2012, the media reported on the possible resumption of work on the development of KAZ ShPU ICBM.

    Data on KAZ "Mozyr" in many respects are unconfirmed and probabilistic-conjectural in nature. Many conclusions on the KAZ are made by assumptions. The name "product 171" is mentioned by some late sources ( ist. - Gundarov ).


    The schematic diagram of the complex of the active protection of the silo MBU product "171" / OCD "Mozyr" (http://militaryrussia.ru).


    After decommissioning, ICBMs of type 15A18-1 / SS-18mod.4 SATAN were used for commissioning of experimental units damaged by an experimental missile defense system. Also, these missiles were used to launch ballistic targets in the interests of developing a system of salvo firing with core strike elements (OCD "Mazyr"). An inert target block and, together with VNIIEF, a telemetric target block were created for the Mozyr topic.


    One of the structures at the DIP facility at Kura, Kamchatka. The mobile support module from the Pioneer missile system was used during the work on the Mozyr design and development work. Photo - no earlier than 2008 and no later than the fall of 2010 (photo from the archive http://www.club-polekura.ru ).




    The territory of the object DIP at the site Kura, Kamchatka. In 1988, the “Mozyr” missile defense system of the machine-building design bureau was allegedly tested at the DIP-1 facility. Photo - no later than autumn 2010 (photo from the archive http://www.club-polekura.ru ).

    The test location of the KAZ on the subject of OCD "Mozyr" has not been precisely determined, but it is probably the object of DIP-1 (Additional Measuring Point) of the Strategic Missile Forces test site at Kamchatka. Presumably at the facility were installed multi-automated systems to destroy the warhead ballistic missiles. KP system during testing was approximately 6 km from the defended object. After the first successful experiment - testing the system with the defeat of the MSBRs in the descending part of the trajectory - according to the decision of the country's leadership several more tests were conducted. All of them were successful. According to the conclusion of Academician Yu.B. Khariton, the defeat of the nuclear MFBs by the core elements of the KAZ with a high probability should have prevented the initiation of the nuclear charge. After august 1991

    The DIP-1 facility was part of the military unit 40220 and was located approximately 20 km from Shiveluch volcano. The tests were carried out from the DIP facility with a helipad and residential infrastructure. Objects VP-1 and VP-2 (remote observation points) were also involved. During the tests, KAZ personnel and guards were removed from the object DIP-1.

    To move cargo in the interests of building a missile defense facility from Vladivostok to Kamchatka, about 250 air cargo and passenger flights were made.


    Principal deviceKAZ - several hundred barrels with a propelling charge and a propelling element-rod of high-strength steel alloy. The speed of meeting warheads and multiple missiles is about 6 km / s. Destruction of the warhead-targets mechanical. A synchronized volley ejects shells with a volumetric cloud of a certain density, which concentrates on the trajectory of the attack of the attacking warhead. The system is equipped with an electronic target detection, targeting and salvo system. The KAZ control system is fully automatic and probably works without operator participation.

    According to unconfirmed data, one KAZ installation had 80 barrels.

    Control system and guidance : presumably for testing the KAZ at the Kura (Kamchatka) test site, general targeting with the RSN-225 radar was usedcomplex of observations 5K17 (pos.Krutoberegovo).

    The development of information tools directly at the complex of the defense of the silos was conducted by NPO Fazotron (General Designer A.G.Nevostruev, later - A.I. Canaschenkov).

    The development of the complex radar was carried out by the Research Institute of Instrument Engineering (Zhukovsky, V.K. Grishin, V.V. Matyashev, A. A. Rastov, E. A. Pigin, V. A. Kapustin, G. V. Petryaev, I. I. Domenikov). The creation of an experimental model of the radar was carried out in conjunction with the Research Institute "Rassvet" (Ryazan, P.A. Kolodina, V.P. Strakhova, E.D. Shershneva).

    The development of the control system of the complex was carried out by TsNIIAG (chief designer - A.S. Parfenov).


    Status : USSR
    - 1987-1988. (tentatively) - successful tests of KAZ on the subject of ROC "Mozyr" at the Kura test site for real purpose simulators.

    - 2007 - a tender for land recultivation after the destruction of silos in military unit 25522, Klyuchi-1 was announced on the state procurement website. Customer RVSN. At the same time, it is known for certain. that silos for ballistic missiles are absent at the Kura test site. Based on the above (see the article), it was concluded that, probably, the tender was supposed to reclaim the residual silo, used during the tests of KAZ, silo, ICBM as a defensive object.


    Sources :
    Gundarov V. No day without a complex. // Radio-electronic technology. №2 / 2018.
    Invincible S.P. Weapons of two eras. M., 2010.
    Invincible Russian designer. Website http://www.za-nauku.ru , 2011.
    Paul Kura. Website http://www.club-polekura.ru , 2011
    Called by time. Missiles and spacecraft design office "Yuzhnoye". Under the general editorship of S.N.Konyuhova. Dnepropetrovsk, "Art-Press", 2004.
    Ptichkin S. “Arena” by Sergei Invincible. As in the USSR, they successfully created and tested a complex of active protection of strategic objects from high-precision nuclear missiles. // Ruska Pravda. August 7, 2009
    C-300. Low-altitude missile interception system. Website http://www.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru , 2009-2011
    Strategic missile system R-36M2 Voyevoda (15P018M) with an ICBM 15A18M. Website http://rbase.new-factoria.ru , 2009
    What was the active protection complex of ICBM mines? Website http://russbalt.livejournal.com , 2008
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    Re: Avangard hypersonic glide vehicle (“object 4202”)

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:46 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    Hole wrote:Protection system for silos. Made it to the prototype stage.
    T
    those  guns are  in which sense? (BTW they look as 45mm semiautomatic from early 50s) ? Guns vs warhead then what energy they can deliver ?


    System I was talking about with steel rods (many of them of course) was real, Ill try to find its name.  

    Apparently from available information there's hundreds of artillery barrels that fire fragmentation munitions at the speed of Mach 17.6 (or 6 km/s) and hit targets at a height of 30 km. Of course this was the characteristics of the system designed in the 70's and implemented in the 80's, and since been recently updated/upgraded, but to what extent is a closely guarded secret.
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    Re: Avangard hypersonic glide vehicle (“object 4202”)

    Post  miketheterrible on Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:58 pm

    Sometime back there was a video showing some of the automated systems at a solo base.
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    Re: Avangard hypersonic glide vehicle (“object 4202”)

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:04 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:

    Apparently from available information there's hundreds of artillery barrels that fire fragmentation munitions at the speed of Mach 17.6 (or 6 km/s) and hit targets at a height of 30 km. Of course this was the characteristics of the system designed in the 70's and implemented in the 80's, and since been recently updated/upgraded, but to what extent is a closely guarded secret.

    i've never heard that chemical propellant can achieve 6km/s in one barrel unless you try exotic designs.





    miketheterrible wrote:Sometime back there was a video showing some of the automated systems at a solo base.

    what is solo base?
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    Re: Avangard hypersonic glide vehicle (“object 4202”)

    Post  dino00 on Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:44 am

    Confirmation That they are in production


    Russia began mass production of Avangard missile systems


    MOSCOW, December 5 - RIA News. In Russia, in 2018, mass production of the Avangard missile system with a missile equipped with a planning winged block began, the chief of the General Staff of the Russian Armed Forces Valery Gerasimov said on Wednesday.

    "Russian industrial enterprises have begun mass production of the Avangard missile system with a missile equipped with a planning winged unit," he said at a briefing in front of military attaches of foreign countries.


    РИА Новости https://ria.ru/defense_safety/20181205/1543503699.html
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    Re: Avangard hypersonic glide vehicle (“object 4202”)

    Post  dino00 on Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:40 pm

    "NPO Mashinostroeniya" serially manufactures hypersonic complex "Avangard"

    MOSCOW, December 17 - RIA News . The Moscow-based NPO Mashinostroenia began serial production of the Avangard missile complex with a hypersonic warhead, the first samples will go into service of the Dombarovsky rocket regiment, commander of the Strategic Missile Forces of Russia Sergei Karakaev said.
    "At present, the military industrial complex NPO Mashinostroeniya has already started creating serial models of the Avangard missile system with hypersonic military equipment. The first samples are planned to be put on combat duty in the Dombarovsky rocket regiment next year," Karakayev told the newspaper Armed Forces of the Russian Federation " Red Star .


    https://ria.ru/20181217/1548075089.html
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    Re: Avangard hypersonic glide vehicle (“object 4202”)

    Post  George1 on Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:27 pm

    Avangard hypersonic missile systems to enter combat duty in Dombarovsky division in 2019

    The Avangard is a strategic intercontinental ballistic missile system equipped with a hypersonic glide vehicle


    MOSCOW, December 17. /TASS/. First Avangard hypersonic missile systems will enter combat duty in 2019 at the Dombarovsky missile division based in the Orenburg Region in the south Urals, Strategic Missile Force Commander Colonel-General Sergei Karakayev said in an interview with Krasnaya Zvezda newspaper.

    "First complexes are planned to be put on combat duty at the missile regiment of the Dombarosky division starting next year," Karakayev said.

    The Avangard is a strategic intercontinental ballistic missile system equipped with a hypersonic glide vehicle. According to open sources, the ‘breakthrough’ weapon was developed by the Research and Production Association of Machine-Building (the town of Reutov, the Moscow Region) and was tested from 2004. The glide vehicle is capable of flying at hypersonic speed in the dense layers of the atmosphere, maneuvering by its flight path and its altitude and breaching any anti-missile defense.

    The new weapon was unveiled by Russian President Vladimir Putin in his State of the Nation address to the Federal Assembly on March 1. Later, the Russian leader said during his annual Q&A session on June 7 that "the Avangard system is already in the process of its manufacture and has entered its serial production and in 2019 we are planning to deliver it to the Armed Forces."


    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/1036339
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    Re: Avangard hypersonic glide vehicle (“object 4202”)

    Post  George1 on Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:00 pm

    Over 30 Yars, Avangard ICBMs to assume combat duty in Russia next year


    The first Avangard missile complexes armed with the hypersonic glide vehicle will assume combat duty in the Dombarovsky missile division in the Orenburg Region

    MOSCOW, December 18. /TASS/. The Russian Strategic Missile Force will make operational 31 Yars and Avangard intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs) next year, Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu said at the ministry’s year-end enlarged board meeting attended by President Vladimir Putin on Tuesday.

    "The Defense Ministry is set to accomplish several priority tasks in 2019," Shoigu said.

    "With regard to the strategic nuclear forces, 31 launchers with the Yars and Avangard ICBMs will assume combat duty in the Strategic Missile Force," the defense chief said.

    As Strategic Missile Force Commander Sergei Karakayev said in an interview with the newspaper Krasnaya Zvezda on December 17, the first Avangard missile complexes armed with the hypersonic glide vehicle will assume combat duty in the Dombarovsky missile division in the Orenburg Region in the south Urals in 2019.

    The Avangard is a strategic intercontinental ballistic missile system equipped with a hypersonic glide vehicle. According to open sources, the ‘breakthrough’ weapon was developed by the Research and Production Association of Machine-Building (the town of Reutov, the Moscow Region) and was tested from 2004. The glide vehicle is capable of flying at hypersonic speed in the dense layers of the atmosphere, maneuvering by its flight path and its altitude and breaching any anti-missile defense.

    The new weapon was unveiled by President Putin in his State of the Nation address to the Federal Assembly on March 1. Initially, the UR-100N UTTKh (SS-19 Stiletto) missile will be the carrier for the strategic hypersonic weapon and later it will be replaced by the most advanced Sarmat heavy ICBM.

    The RS-24 Yars is a mobile or silo-based missile system with a solid-propellant intercontinental ballistic missile carrying a multiple warhead.

    The Yars was developed in the 2000s by the Moscow Institute of Thermal Technology under the supervision of Chief Designer Yuri Solomonov on the basis of the Topol-M ICBM.


    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/1036642
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    Re: Avangard hypersonic glide vehicle (“object 4202”)

    Post  dino00 on Wed Dec 26, 2018 1:51 pm

    Defense Ministry held a successful launch of "Avangard" in the presence of Putin

    The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, on instructions from Russian President Vladimir Putin, conducted on Wednesday, December 26, a successful test launch of the Avangard missile with a hypersonic flight-winged combat unit. This is the press service of the Kremlin.

    Putin arrived at the National Center for Defense Management and gave the command to proceed to the tests. The launch was conducted by combat crews of the Strategic Missile Forces compound from the Dombarovsky positional area on a conditional target at the Kura test site in the Kamchatka region, ”RIA Novosti quotes the message .

    It is noted that the winged unit made "vertical and horizontal controlled maneuvering" and at the appointed time hit a conventional target on the battlefield of the landfill.

    The Kremlin added that the Avangard test flight test program was fully implemented. This makes it possible to put the complex into service with the Strategic Missile Forces in a timely manner.

    It is also noted that the capabilities of the winged unit make it possible to bypass the zones of action of information and fire missile defenses. This ensures the effective overcoming of all existing and future missile defense systems.

    https://iz.ru/828128/2018-12-26/minoborony-provelo-uspeshnyi-pusk-avangarda-v-prisutstvii-putina
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    Re: Avangard hypersonic glide vehicle (“object 4202”)

    Post  dino00 on Wed Dec 26, 2018 2:09 pm

    "As for this subject in general, I know how the work is organized, then we will talk with the general designer again, talk with other colleagues: take additional measures to unconditionally provide results on all parallel topics that the General Staff and the Ministry of Defense consider promising to equip the army and fleet with the latest weapons systems, including hypersonic weapons, "- said Putin

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5955257
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    Re: Avangard hypersonic glide vehicle (“object 4202”)

    Post  dino00 on Wed Dec 26, 2018 2:39 pm

    dino00 wrote:"As for this subject in general, I know how the work is organized, then we will talk with the general designer again, talk with other colleagues: take additional measures to unconditionally provide results on all parallel topics that the General Staff and the Ministry of Defense consider promising to equip the army and fleet with the latest weapons systems, including hypersonic weapons, "- said Putin

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5955257

    Video from the launch:

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    Re: Avangard hypersonic glide vehicle (“object 4202”)

    Post  George1 on Wed Dec 26, 2018 5:08 pm

    Succesful Avangard HGV test launch from Dombarovskiy to Kura

    does anyone has info on the missile that carried the HGV? SS-19?

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    Re: Avangard hypersonic glide vehicle (“object 4202”)

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      Current date/time is Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:01 pm