The Situation in the Ukraine. #25

ExBeobachter1987 wrote:

auslander wrote:"DONBASS: NEITHER WAR, NOR PEACE, BUT HUMANITARIAN CONVOYS

Russians are divided in their opinions on what position toward Ukraine Russian authorities should take, however favorable attitudes towards Ukraine and desire to help prevail over the willingness of Russians to cut themselves off from the problems that the Donbass inhabitants are facing today. Twenty-three percent of respondents think it is necessary to help residents of DPR and LPR get autonomous status as a part of Ukraine; 22% consider that LPR and DPR should be recognized as sovereign states. Every fifth (21%) supports the idea to incorporate these republics into Russia’s territory. And finally, 17% opt for non-intervention and cutting relations with the LPR and DPR governments.

As you can see there is no clear majority for the separation of Donbass/Novorussia from Ukraine"

Oh goody. A 'survey' that interviewed, by their counting, 1600 Russians and that is a basis for a conclusion? 1600 out of roughly 145 million? Get real.

That is how surveys works, ausländer.

That means that 40% of the Russians are stupid?

23 + 17 = 40%

ExBeobachter1987 wrote:

auslander wrote:"DONBASS: NEITHER WAR, NOR PEACE, BUT HUMANITARIAN CONVOYS

Russians are divided in their opinions on what position toward Ukraine Russian authorities should take, however favorable attitudes towards Ukraine and desire to help prevail over the willingness of Russians to cut themselves off from the problems that the Donbass inhabitants are facing today. Twenty-three percent of respondents think it is necessary to help residents of DPR and LPR get autonomous status as a part of Ukraine; 22% consider that LPR and DPR should be recognized as sovereign states. Every fifth (21%) supports the idea to incorporate these republics into Russia’s territory. And finally, 17% opt for non-intervention and cutting relations with the LPR and DPR governments.

As you can see there is no clear majority for the separation of Donbass/Novorussia from Ukraine"

Oh goody. A 'survey' that interviewed, by their counting, 1600 Russians and that is a basis for a conclusion? 1600 out of roughly 145 million? Get real.

That is how surveys works, ausländer.

Actually surveys can yield many results based on the way the questions are posed and what sort of context is being dredged up in the minds
of the people being surveyed. By spinning the "Ukraine friendship" angle the poll can suppress the support for the Donbas republics. If it
focused on the Donbass and its plight at the hands of the Banderastani slime in Kiev then it could inflate the support. Polls are a form of
public opinion manipulation. In the west it is routine to use them right before the election to skew the results. It is almost routine in Canadian
federal elections for there to be an inflection point in the two months leading to the election where the unpopular incumbent party gets a
"second wind". To me it is clear that this is manufactured via the polls and via the MSM coverage, which is often transparently biased.
The Harper regime stayed in power thanks to the MSM and such polling.

Odin of Ossetia wrote:

ExBeobachter1987 wrote:

auslander wrote:"DONBASS: NEITHER WAR, NOR PEACE, BUT HUMANITARIAN CONVOYS

Russians are divided in their opinions on what position toward Ukraine Russian authorities should take, however favorable attitudes towards Ukraine and desire to help prevail over the willingness of Russians to cut themselves off from the problems that the Donbass inhabitants are facing today. Twenty-three percent of respondents think it is necessary to help residents of DPR and LPR get autonomous status as a part of Ukraine; 22% consider that LPR and DPR should be recognized as sovereign states. Every fifth (21%) supports the idea to incorporate these republics into Russia’s territory. And finally, 17% opt for non-intervention and cutting relations with the LPR and DPR governments.

As you can see there is no clear majority for the separation of Donbass/Novorussia from Ukraine"

Oh goody. A 'survey' that interviewed, by their counting, 1600 Russians and that is a basis for a conclusion? 1600 out of roughly 145 million? Get real.

That is how surveys works, ausländer.

That means that 40% of the Russians are stupid?

23 + 17 = 40%

Why are you so surprised that many Russians don't care or are in favour of the official government position (autonomy within Ukraine)?

Russian nationalism have been suppressed by the government for almost a whole century.
Treating Donbass as part of Ukraine is almost as old as that.

ExBeobachter1987 wrote:

Odin of Ossetia wrote:

ExBeobachter1987 wrote:

auslander wrote:"DONBASS: NEITHER WAR, NOR PEACE, BUT HUMANITARIAN CONVOYS

Russians are divided in their opinions on what position toward Ukraine Russian authorities should take, however favorable attitudes towards Ukraine and desire to help prevail over the willingness of Russians to cut themselves off from the problems that the Donbass inhabitants are facing today. Twenty-three percent of respondents think it is necessary to help residents of DPR and LPR get autonomous status as a part of Ukraine; 22% consider that LPR and DPR should be recognized as sovereign states. Every fifth (21%) supports the idea to incorporate these republics into Russia’s territory. And finally, 17% opt for non-intervention and cutting relations with the LPR and DPR governments.

As you can see there is no clear majority for the separation of Donbass/Novorussia from Ukraine"

Oh goody. A 'survey' that interviewed, by their counting, 1600 Russians and that is a basis for a conclusion? 1600 out of roughly 145 million? Get real.

That is how surveys works, ausländer.

That means that 40% of the Russians are stupid?

23 + 17 = 40%

Why are you so surprised that many Russians don't care or are in favour of the official government position (autonomy within Ukraine)?

Russian nationalism have been suppressed by the government for almost a whole century.
Treating Donbass as part of Ukraine is almost as old as that.

Who said anything about any nationalism?

It looks to me, if that poll is even truthful to begin with (and there are clearly some here who doubt it), that 40% of people in Russia are not even patriotic.

Of course, ethnic Russians are only 80% of Russia's population, so there is that 20% of the others.

Odin of Ossetia wrote:

ExBeobachter1987 wrote:

Odin of Ossetia wrote:

ExBeobachter1987 wrote:

auslander wrote:"DONBASS: NEITHER WAR, NOR PEACE, BUT HUMANITARIAN CONVOYS

Russians are divided in their opinions on what position toward Ukraine Russian authorities should take, however favorable attitudes towards Ukraine and desire to help prevail over the willingness of Russians to cut themselves off from the problems that the Donbass inhabitants are facing today. Twenty-three percent of respondents think it is necessary to help residents of DPR and LPR get autonomous status as a part of Ukraine; 22% consider that LPR and DPR should be recognized as sovereign states. Every fifth (21%) supports the idea to incorporate these republics into Russia’s territory. And finally, 17% opt for non-intervention and cutting relations with the LPR and DPR governments.

As you can see there is no clear majority for the separation of Donbass/Novorussia from Ukraine"

Oh goody. A 'survey' that interviewed, by their counting, 1600 Russians and that is a basis for a conclusion? 1600 out of roughly 145 million? Get real.

That is how surveys works, ausländer.

That means that 40% of the Russians are stupid?

23 + 17 = 40%

Why are you so surprised that many Russians don't care or are in favour of the official government position (autonomy within Ukraine)?

Russian nationalism have been suppressed by the government for almost a whole century.
Treating Donbass as part of Ukraine is almost as old as that.

Who said anything about any nationalism?

It looks to me, if that poll is even truthful to begin with (and there are clearly some here who doubt it), that 40% of people in Russia are not even patriotic.

Of course, ethnic Russians are only 80% of Russia's population, so there is that 20% of the others.

Patriotic?
Majority of the people in Donbass are not even fellow Russian citizens which is the group of people the Russian government is officially willing to protect, not ethnic Russians. Supporting a properly autonomous Donbass in Ukraine can be patriotic too.

It is nationalism if you want more.
Justified nationalism, but still nationalism.

ExBeobachter1987 wrote:

Odin of Ossetia wrote:

ExBeobachter1987 wrote:

Odin of Ossetia wrote:

ExBeobachter1987 wrote:

auslander wrote:"DONBASS: NEITHER WAR, NOR PEACE, BUT HUMANITARIAN CONVOYS

Russians are divided in their opinions on what position toward Ukraine Russian authorities should take, however favorable attitudes towards Ukraine and desire to help prevail over the willingness of Russians to cut themselves off from the problems that the Donbass inhabitants are facing today. Twenty-three percent of respondents think it is necessary to help residents of DPR and LPR get autonomous status as a part of Ukraine; 22% consider that LPR and DPR should be recognized as sovereign states. Every fifth (21%) supports the idea to incorporate these republics into Russia’s territory. And finally, 17% opt for non-intervention and cutting relations with the LPR and DPR governments.

As you can see there is no clear majority for the separation of Donbass/Novorussia from Ukraine"

Oh goody. A 'survey' that interviewed, by their counting, 1600 Russians and that is a basis for a conclusion? 1600 out of roughly 145 million? Get real.

That is how surveys works, ausländer.

That means that 40% of the Russians are stupid?

23 + 17 = 40%

Why are you so surprised that many Russians don't care or are in favour of the official government position (autonomy within Ukraine)?

Russian nationalism have been suppressed by the government for almost a whole century.
Treating Donbass as part of Ukraine is almost as old as that.

Who said anything about any nationalism?

It looks to me, if that poll is even truthful to begin with (and there are clearly some here who doubt it), that 40% of people in Russia are not even patriotic.

Of course, ethnic Russians are only 80% of Russia's population, so there is that 20% of the others.

Patriotic?
Majority of the people in Donbass are not even fellow Russian citizens which is the group of people the Russian government is officially willing to protect, not ethnic Russians. Supporting a properly autonomous Donbass in Ukraine can be patriotic too.

It is nationalism if you want more.
Justified nationalism, but still nationalism.

Are you fucking deranged?


Russia's ultimate business is to support ethnic Russians everywhere, both in Russia and outside of it.


Even suggesting that they should stay in Ukraine is outrageous; they would certainly be subjected to a genocide even with a superficial autonomy. You have no clue what you are writing about, and with whom you are dealing with.

@ExBeobachter1987

First off, no that isn't how statistics work unless you want to spin it however way you want. No two people share exactly, 100% the same mentality and idea's. This goes even within family and I can contest to that. If you want to do it right, you need a much larger spectrum of people to account. Want to do it properly, then they must state which: Cities/Towns/Villages in which Regions, how many of them, and a much larger audience of all types (Ethnicity, religion, etc). For all we know, they could have asked a bunch of Ukrainian expats at universities or schools or jobsites at various locations in Russia, to ask their opinion on the matter.

Second, even if you combine 3 of the 4 on that list, they still hold a majority viewpoint in favor of Novorussia. Only 1 of that, last one, is a negative viewpoint. That is 17% of the total amount of people asked. Still shows a larger form of love towards the people.

Thirdly, as much as nationalism has been curbed over the years, it is being reborn. And I am not talking about nationalisim where it is extremism. But nationalism of Russian pride. One doesn't have to be ethnic Russian to specifically view themselves as Russian, while there is indeed Russian ethnicity, Russia itself is derived from various groups of people for hundreds of years. But with Putin now, as much as I disagree with various of his viewpoints, he has brought in a form of nationalism that has not been seen. If you do not believe so, then you must look at ONF group, which I did an article on a while back: An important post worth repeating – Is Putin Preparing a Governmental Purge? What is important, is how young this group is, yet how much traction they are gaining. As well, if the people of Russia weren't holding to a form of nationalism, then there would be problems now regarding how Putin is sticking it to the west. Yet, his approval rating is still over 80% and even a larger part of that missing 20% are die hard nationalists and communist supporters who would want even harsher stance.

ExBeobachter1987, any survey can be manipulated and often is. Your instant acceptance of such a small survey wherein nothing was given but the supposed results shows to me that the 'survey' simply says what you believe or want to believe. It is your right to do so just as it is my right to disagree with that survey or any survey.

The rebirth of Russian Nationalism in the last decade and much more so in the last four or five years is nothing short of spectacular. We see it every day as do our friends and acquaintances throughout Russia. Of course not everyone agrees with this fact or with the course of actions Russia is taking but in my opinion a goodly majority to agree.

Emergency workers and hospitals in Kharkov and areas surrounding Donbass ordered to prepare for casualties. This also happened shortly before cancelled offensive last year.

FSB reports on the prevention of terrorist attacks in the Crimea and the death of his employee

Today, 15:51

The official website of the Federal Security Service of Russia publishes the material, which refers to the prevention of a series of attacks on the Crimean peninsula. The article reported that the terrorist attacks on the Crimean facilities preparing the Head Office of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine intelligence. The main objectives - infrastructure elements and critical infrastructure Peninsula.

Press Service FSB:
The purpose of sabotage and terrorist attacks - to destabilize the socio-political situation in the region during the preparation and conduct of elections of the federal and regional authorities.


The article states that in the course of fire contact with the subversive group, transferred into the Crimea from Ukraine, died officer of the FSB.

Press Service of the Federal Security Service of the Russian Federation:
As a result of operational search activities on the night of the 6th of August 7th, 2016 in the region of the Armenian Republic of Crimea discovered a group of saboteurs. During the arrest the terrorists as a result of fire contact the Russian FSB officer died. At the site of clashes found 20 improvised explosive devices with a total capacity of more than 40 kilograms of TNT, ammunition and special means of initiation, regular and anti magnetic mines, as well as grenades and special weapons, consisting armed special units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

The measures taken on the peninsula of Crimea eliminated intelligence network of the Main Directorate of the Ministry of Defence Intelligence of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Detained persons from among the citizens of Ukraine and the Russian Federation shall be assisted in the preparation of terrorist acts, which give a confession. One of the organizers of the terrorist attacks is prevented Evgeny Panov, born in 1977, resident of Zaporozhye region, a member of the DIU who is also detained and makes a confession.


It is reported, and other attempts to break DRGs from Ukrainian territory:
On the night of 8 August 2016 special units of the Ministry of Defence attempts to break two more have been carried out sabotage and terrorist groups that prevented law enforcement units of the FSB of Russia and cooperating agencies. Attempts to break camouflage massive bombardment from the neighboring state and armored vehicles of the armed forces of Ukraine. During the fire contact serviceman killed Defense Ministry.

Based on the results of investigative activities and combat the investigation department of FSB of Russia in the Republic of Crimea and the city of Sevastopol prosecuted. Conduct additional operational activities and investigations.

Adopted additional security measures in public places and the rest of people, as well as for the protection of critical infrastructure and livelihood. Strengthened border regime on the border with Ukraine.

Another link: http://tass.ru/en/politics/893518

At this point, I would just wipe out the Ukrainian contingent at the Crimean border since this was a direct act of war.

Or start flooding Novorussia with weapons and ammo.

FSB page http://www.fsb.ru/fsb/press/message/single.htm%21id%3D10437869%40fsbMessage.html

So, even bigger than what was written on Cassad yesterday, not one BTR but multiple armored vehicles, "massive attack", ukrops spetsnaz. I would think that some ukrops at the front are now shitting themselves as they will now know that the end is coming for them, simply a matter of when. Still time for a coup or revolution in Kiev, and this major provocation may make the few normal people wake up to the extreme danger their "leaders" have put them in and take action.

If Kiev was prepared to launch what would have been a devasting series of terrorist attacks had the plot not been discovered and disrupted, I would not put it beyond them that when the war comes, they will launch missiles into Crimea, probably Sevastopol, not in the hope of getting any "victory", as they will be destroyed, but out of spite. Kiev regime have shown themsselves to be very childish and spiteful, and Washington is certainly consumed with childish spite, and I would not be surprised if they launch missiles from their ships in the Black Sea, perhaps from Odessa to create some doubt as to who had fired missiles. Tinfoilhat stuff, but I do not put it beyond them as they are so poisonous and irrational.

Apparently some of y'all aren't very good at reading.

"As an aside, today we took the day off and we drove up to the 'mountains' on the south coast, specifically the area of the RESERVOIR (Main water supply for Sevastopol) and then to Shalash Restaurant at BAIDAR GATE at the top of a pass, below which is Church of Foros on a granite outcrop. Beautiful weather, beautiful country, excellent late lunch at Shalash and then to Church of Foros where we were married eleven years ago. Veritable HORDES OF TOURISTS at both Church and restaurant. Have I ever mentioned how much we detest the tourists?

Got back on the H19 to head for home and what a change in five hours. Police everywhere and VEHICLES WERE BEING STOPPED, not many, the POLICE had Golden Eagle BERKUT backup for the stop and NO ONE WAS PLAYING GAMES, the stops were pretty INTENSE from what we could see. Within five klicks of Yalta Ring not a crusher to be seen and from Ring to the family schloss nothing but normal, read quite rare, GAIshniki, the road crushers. Not a squeak so far on the media."

Sometimes our boy the good colonel don't know when to keep his mouth shut.

auslander wrote:
Sometimes our boy the good colonel don't know when to keep his mouth shut.

I see your point and am not posting to defend Rozhin, but I will point out that at 03:15 on 22 July 1941 the residents of Sevastopol were the first people in Soviet Union to know GPW had started, even before Stalin knew. They were rather surprised and totally unprepared for an air raid, let alone a war. The reason they were surprised, from humblest resident to fleet commander, was because of a regime of silence and not wanting to provoke Hitler, a "partner". Never again.

Minsk agreements come from the Normandy format meetings. Putin has said there is no point in these meetings now and the one in China is cancelled. By extension will this mean that "Minsk" will go? Well, it already went.....

I understand your point and I know you are not posting to defend Rozhin. I am also fully aware of who knew first when Germany was on the march and how. That day and the reason for it will never be forgotten here, it is taught in schools and at Museums including 35th Battery where the last stand was.

The main reason I've been so quiet for the last year is OpSec and I think you know this fact.

Khepesh wrote:Minsk agreements come from the Normandy format meetings. Putin has said there is no point in these meetings now and the one in China is cancelled. By extension will this mean that "Minsk" will go? Well, it already went.....

The Minsk 'agreements' were simply to save the orc army twice, pure and simple. Mutti Merkel and Golland spent their entire political capitol on those useless papers and everyone knew what the agreements were for. There will be no more 'agreements' with the orcs or Europe, that idea is dead and gone.

In my opinion the attacks on Krimu were simply pin pricks to goad Mother in to reacting and attacking. 'Pin pricks' is really a piss poor choice of words when we have dead and wounded from them but in reality that is what they were. I foresee in the near future all the orc tagged vehicles in this berg and this city with their attendant occupants will be given the choice, register as refugees and be moved to the mainland to places where Mother needs you or get out. It is my estimate that just in Sevastopol Region we have 50,000 guests with the VV or AN tags, let alone the AA and other tags from Orcland. Two and a half years is long enough. Declare yourself as refugee or get out. Your welcome is worn very thin, especially when so many of our locals are volunteers fighting in your areas while you are having a grand old time enjoying our pleasant climate and ambiance.

auslander wrote:I understand your point and I know you are not posting to defend Rozhin. I am also fully aware of who knew first when Germany was on the march and how. That day and the reason for it will never be forgotten here, it is taught in schools and at Museums including 35th Battery where the last stand was.

The main reason I've been so quiet for the last year is OpSec and I think you know this fact.

Yes, of course with the opsec, and there is almost nothing from the front in Donbass, but that is as it should be, even if frustating at times. I had in mind the silence that something has happened when we all know something had happened. No need to mention troop movements of course, and the video of the BTRs at Kerch was just an "illustration", but news blackout that there was an incident was not needed I think. It also rather makes the news broadcasters look fools as they now have to report about Putin's reaction to an event that, officially, never happened, clumsy.

Khepesh wrote:

auslander wrote:I understand your point and I know you are not posting to defend Rozhin. I am also fully aware of who knew first when Germany was on the march and how. That day and the reason for it will never be forgotten here, it is taught in schools and at Museums including 35th Battery where the last stand was.

The main reason I've been so quiet for the last year is OpSec and I think you know this fact.

Yes, of course with the opsec, and there is almost nothing from the front in Donbass, but that is as it should be, even if frustating at times. I had in mind the silence that something has happened when we all know something had happened. No need to mention troop movements of course, and the video of the BTRs at Kerch was just an "illustration", but news blackout that there was an incident was not needed I think. It also rather makes the news broadcasters look fools as they now have to report about Putin's reaction to an event that, officially, never happened, clumsy.

The operations around the border were ongoing for several days, ergo I was generally silent and I did not go out of my way to find what was happening beyond what would concern this bucolic area and even then I mentioned not much. With time we will now know all of what did and will happen and hopefully we will not lose any more boys in this foolishness. However, when an operation is in process one should refrain from commenting too much. Always remember, the other side watches everything and it takes but one innocuous comment to end a life.

This report says two Russian servicemen dead and 7 arrested including locals.

http://en.ria.ru/russia/20160810/1044138357/crimea-foiled-attack.html

This sounds like things are about to happen.

I accidentally had an argument on Reddit about China with this guy who apparently was from Taiwan ( Chinese Taipei for more hardcore among you ) and holy crap, just replace China with Russia and Taiwan with Ukraine (works on Baltic and Poland too for the most part) and you get the same freakin' argument we had with ukrop stronkers back on MP.net.

Don't know whether its hilarious or disturbing. And I don't even give a crap about China/Taiwan stuff.... :