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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #25

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    JohninMK
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #25

    Post  JohninMK on Wed Jun 22, 2016 8:35 pm

    Khepesh wrote:What
    My initial thought on the comment as well.

    Then I thought he might be directing the comment at Zakharchenko

    auslander
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #25

    Post  auslander on Wed Jun 22, 2016 8:45 pm

    Khepesh wrote:Of all the questions that Zakharchenko answered on the "direct line" to Kiev today, I repeat two.

    In answer to the question of when will Zakharchenko be in Kiev to give a press conference for the city's residents, he answered "It could happen a lot sooner than you can imagine"

    In answer to the question of if he thought it was possible for the continued existance of a unified Ukraine, Zakharchenko gave an answer that it was theoretically possible, and asked what is meant by a unified Ukraine, and that a Ukraine with any bandera ideologies is not possible. His answer indicated that bandera ideology would have to be totally eradicated, and he said about the banderas seeing themselves as a "master race", and people in Donbass simply as cattle, second class people to be used for labor. His actual answer was longer than that, but that is what the end line of his answer was.

    IMO, the language used, and not just in this direct line but all the others and other comments by Zakharchenko and Pushilin, are leading to a scenario in which it is envisaged that Ukraine in it's current form is finished and that the end result may be a "Novoukraina", as already told by Yurasumy last year, and possibly constructed as a confederation, or that all Novorossiya and all the left bank and possibly Kiev, will be absorbed by Russia and a border drawn to exclude the western oblasts. No matter what happens, I think it is a message to Kiev that they either swallow false pride and stop the ATO and withdraw from all of LDNR territory they occupy, therefore removing the possibility of a failed offensive by them turning into a liberation of all Novorossiya. But Poroshenko will not do this, so either there is coup or revolution in Ukraine to stop a disaster, or the regime under Poroshenko continues, and there will be war.

    Anyone with a lick of sense beyond that of a fried snail knows that eventually the leash holding NAF back will be slipped and they will come storming out of Novorossiya with blood in their eyes and avtomats at their shoulders. I do not see NAF going beyond the borders of Novorossiya at this time, NAF has not the men to go much further. Will the expulsion and total destruction of orc armies lead to a coup in Kiev? Probably but who will be the victor of the coup? Tyagnibok is the likely answer. For the time being Poroshenko is the anointed one and nothing will happen to him until Langley decides he is of no more use. He may be lucky and get out of orcland but I doubt that, I would think that a lamp post will be the end result.

    The fly in this ointment is the reaction from the supporters of Poroshenko and the ato will then install draconian sanctions against Mother and every living soul in Russia and it is possible that NATO may try to come to porkie's rescue. A fools errand we all know but I think they will do it. The real problem is EU/Langley believe their own propaganda and after spending untold tens of millions to train and equip ato they will not believe that a bunch of miners and tractor drivers will be able to defeat their expensive 'army' and all will be blamed on the North Wind, actual evidence meaning precisely zero.

    To be blunt it's going to be one hell of a mess but on the other hand how much longer can DNR/LNR put up with the daily loss of civilians and soldiers and the set piece destruction of physical plant and living quarters in their territory? I do not have the answer to that question but I know that eventually there will be a war and it's going to look like a monkey having conjugal relations with a football and it will be the orcs who will have the laces up their backs.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #25

    Post  KiloGolf on Wed Jun 22, 2016 9:04 pm

    lol1 lol1 lol1

    wikipedia comedy at its best:

    During the War in Donbass the 95th separate airmobile brigade conducted the longest raid in the military history of the world. 95th Brigade in early August of 2014 broke through the defensive line of separatists marched to Mariupol, returned along the border, destroyed several Russian artillery battalions that were already on the Ukrainian side of the border, seized their weapons and equipment. Russian tanks drove right up to Lugansk and returned to Slavyansk.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/95th_Airmobile_Brigade_(Ukraine)#cite_note-16

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #25

    Post  Khepesh on Wed Jun 22, 2016 9:08 pm

    Locals report, and in one case with video evidence, of very large ukrops troop movements thru Slavyansk to the front, and also ukrops forces massing at Artemovsk. A resident of Slavyansk, not the originator of this video, has said that columns of ukrops are coming thru constantly all day.


    Last edited by Khepesh on Wed Jun 22, 2016 9:12 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #25

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Jun 22, 2016 9:09 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:lol1 lol1 lol1

    wikipedia comedy at its best:

    During the War in Donbass the 95th separate airmobile brigade conducted the longest raid in the military history of the world. 95th Brigade in early August of 2014 broke through the defensive line of separatists marched to Mariupol, returned along the border, destroyed several Russian artillery battalions that were already on the Ukrainian side of the border, seized their weapons and equipment. Russian tanks drove right up to Lugansk and returned to Slavyansk.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/95th_Airmobile_Brigade_(Ukraine)#cite_note-16

    And then they uploaded the virus into the alien mothership in orbit which disabled the enemy force-fields, planted the nuclear bomb that destroyed the alien invaders and successfully returned to earth.

    True story.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #25

    Post  ExBeobachter1987 on Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:03 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    Khepesh wrote:What
    My initial thought on the comment as well.

    Then I thought he might be directing the comment at Zakharchenko

    I did.
    All this talk about having real influence outside of Donbass, while not even being to prevent shelling of their own territory seems as delusional as Ukrop threats aimed at Crimea.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #25

    Post  KiloGolf on Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:15 pm

    http://www.peoplesproject.com/en/about
    have you guys seen this one before?
    next level crowdfunded army, they have a yt channel too:



    this is recent from Sirokino and looks like the recipients are irregulars:


    sepheronx
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #25

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:23 pm

    Novorussia should do the same, I know I would donate.

    ExBeobachter1987 wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:
    Khepesh wrote:What
    My initial thought on the comment as well.

    Then I thought he might be directing the comment at Zakharchenko

    I did.
    All this talk about having real influence outside of Donbass, while not even being to prevent shelling of their own territory seems as delusional as Ukrop threats aimed at Crimea.

    They do actually strike back. Issue is though, that when dealing with people who want you dead, there is no stopping them from shelling at you. All you can do in current situation, unless they want to just restart the war (and the drastic increase of propaganda against them), then they could just go in and fight back. But simply mortar bombing back is ideal.

    JohninMK
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #25

    Post  JohninMK on Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:34 pm

    Khepesh wrote:Locals report, and in one case with video evidence, of very large ukrops troop movements thru Slavyansk to the front, and also ukrops forces massing at Artemovsk. A resident of Slavyansk, not the originator of this video, has said that columns of ukrops are coming thru constantly all day.
    I counted six tanks on the train and five plus 3 BMP/BTR on the transporters on the road in that video.

    Ivan the Colorado
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #25

    Post  Ivan the Colorado on Thu Jun 23, 2016 12:49 am

    Ukraine flew in a few Su-25s to Severodonetsk.

    https://twitter.com/lugansknovosti/status/745289749213093888

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #25

    Post  Godric on Thu Jun 23, 2016 8:00 am

    Ivan the Colorado wrote:Ukraine flew in a few Su-25s to Severodonetsk.

    https://twitter.com/lugansknovosti/status/745289749213093888

    didn't they learn the last time round when what was left of their airforce fell out the sky when they attacked Donbass

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #25

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Jun 23, 2016 8:05 am

    Nope, and those novorussian air defense systems are probably not sitting idle.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #25

    Post  Khepesh on Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:48 am

    Ceremony at Saur-Mogila yesterday to remember 75th anniversary of beginning of GPW. A little emotional watching this, first time since flag of Novorossiya was raised over Debaltsevo last year.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #25

    Post  Khepesh on Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:01 am

    sepheronx wrote:They do actually strike back.  Issue is though, that when dealing with people who want you dead, there is no stopping them from shelling at you.  All you can do in current situation, unless they want to just restart the war (and the drastic increase of propaganda against them), then they could just go in and fight back.  But simply mortar bombing back is ideal.
    A little more than mortars, in fact much much more than mortars. There is a hint of what happens when locals report from districts of Donetsk that are not, and in many cases, have never been hit by ukrops, that "The house shakes" or "Windows rattle", and they are not talking about ukrops incoming...

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #25

    Post  Khepesh on Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:47 am

    Terrorist attack on regional traumatolgy unit in central Donetsk with radio controlled munition. Damage looks like from perhaps MON-50. No casualties reported yet.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #25

    Post  AlfaT8 on Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:20 pm


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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #25

    Post  Khepesh on Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:42 pm

    The attack on the trauma hospital this morning was in fact an attempted assasination of Motorola. The explosion occured seconds after he left the hospital. This incident also shows that he really was wounded a few weeks back. The background in the photo can be seen on the video with the marks of the explosion on the wall.  http://www.rbc.ru/rbcfreenews/576d1bd99a79475e367ac17b?from=newsfeed




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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #25

    Post  JohninMK on Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:46 am

    A long post that deserves to be archived here, rather than just a link to Doni, a site that may go. It is http://dninews.com/article/intelligence-briefing-body-count-donbass

    Friday, June 24, 2016 - 11:45

    The western media paints the Donbass conflict as a small, insignificant "dispute" or civil war and not worthy of news coverage in an effort to explain it's complete blackout of coverage in English speaking nations. Today we take a look at just what we know about the body count in Donbass. This information is not classified and is available, but like anything worth having, you have to really dig to find the diamond of truth.

    The numbers carried about like gold bars on a sterling silver tray by the Western media come from the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA), this is a United Nations (UN) body formed in December 1991 by General Assembly Resolution 46/182. The resolution was designed to strengthen the UN's response to complex emergencies and natural disasters. According to these "experts" the total number of deaths in Donbass is 9,208 with 2,568 being civilians according to the UN OCHA. Other groups carry the deaths as 3,938 civillians according to numbers from DNR sources. A western NGO claims the military losses of Russians and Donbass freedom fighters comes in at 2,171 killed in action. The Ukrainian Army in Kiev for it's part claims total losses of 2,171 troops. Not to be left out, the US State Department would like for us to mention, they believe Russia has lost 500 of their invisible little green men in Donbass, but really can't prove it.The number of "foreign" fighters lost by Kiev is supposedly 126 according to their count.

    Why these numbers are one of the greatest lies in modern history:

    In the war here there was an initial holding action by Strelkov and Borodai where they were fighting Kiev with like a 1000-2000 troops against 15,000 in the early days of the war. Regardless of who you listen to today, both men are heroes in military history like few others. Things were getting rough during the summer of 2014 right up until August, when it looked like all would be lost, a funny thing happened. In the space of a few hours to no more than 3 days, Kiev lost between 15,000 to 18,000 dead. Now whether you want to attribute this to hyper accurate artillery fire by General Kononov or inbound thermobaric rounds from artillery positions deep in Russia as "Doctor" Kraber of the pro Kiev Potomac Foundation would have you believe, really does not matter. The Ukrainians sent to provide the death blow to freedom were fried alive in a biblical sense. Thousands of corpses littered the countryside, creating a health disaster in the making.

    Strelkov and Borodai stepped aside and Zakharchenko and Kononov took over and in their press conference, Zakharchenko cautions Kononov not to freak out the press by mentioning the bodies Kiev was dumping in lakes and rivers by helicopter to get rid of there dead. The CIA and US government even got into the act and had FEMA type mobile crematoria flown in so Kiev could rid the countryside of the corpses. In order to avoid paying the next of kin death benefits, Petro Poroshenko continues to carry them as "missing" on their records. The following body count is from sources collaborated by the DPR intelligence and German intelligence.It is a rough translation,but you can glean that the Western narrative is just one big lie to put it mildly:

    Lost National Guard under Ukraine - 5998 fighters
    Loss of "Right Sector" - 5788 fighters
    Loss of APU - 19776 men
    The total number of those killed:
    About 34,958 troops, total. H. The members of military and paramilitary units of Ukrainian law enforcers present time Of them:
    - About 5788 guerrillas "Right Sector", mostly included in the National Guard, and 30 mercenaries from the special battalion "Dnepr" and "Azov", "AIDAR" and other illegal armed groups Uraine, according to operative data of the corpses were removed in Dnepropetrovsk and destroyed at the local crematorium, or buried at the place of execution and listed as missing,
    - About 19 776 soldiers of the Ukrainian army (mostly from the 25 Airborne Dnepropetrovsk team and 95 airmobile Zhytomyr Brigade, 24th Motorized Brigade of the Lviv region, 79 airmobile brigade, 51 Mechanized Brigade, 24th Mechanized Brigade of Yavorov, 72-th separate mechanized brigade from the White Church, Kremenchug brigade MO WTP and other units of the Ukrainian army, mainly because of the dislocation of seats from the Western Ukraine)
    - Approximately 5998 members of the MUP, the number of so-called.. "National Guard under"
    - About 381 employees of the Security Service of Ukraine,
    State Border Service of Ukraine - 254 people
    - Other categories of armed forces of Ukraine - 2897 people.

    Foreign mercenaries and advisers
    - 103 employees of the CIA, FBI, DIA US Special Forces,
    - Foreign mercenaries - 1066 people from the Polish PMC «ASBS Othago» (139 to 22.04 at 13.07 '14), American PMCs Asademi (until 2009 was known as Blackwater to) and its "daughter» Greystone Limited PMCs (125 people to 22.04. at 13.07 '14), Canada, Germany, Great Britain, Lithuania, Estonia, Italy, Sweden, Turkey, Czech Republic, Finland, African and Arab and other. countries.

    Only from April 22 to July 13, 2014 the total loss amounted to foreigners in the Donbas 330 people. In particular, the Polish PMC «ASBS Othago» lost 139 people, the American PMCs "Asademi" (until 2009 was known as Blackwater) - 125 people.

    INJURED:
    56,301 people, including of the APU, the Ministry of Interior, the National Guard under, terbatalonov, battalions "right sector, GPS, police.

    Captured, deserted or missing:

    (Also see. A summary of missing below)

    Employees SBU - 524 people.
    National Guard under - 2015 people (of July 2014)
    Military Personnel - 3562 people. (Of July 2014)
    Foreign mercenaries - 549 people.
    other categories - 1366 persons.

    Destruction of equipment UKRAINE
    INCLUDING captured or Disabled

    28 attack helicopters ( "Mi-24" and "Mi-8" MI-17), on 02.02.15, the
    Mi-24: 6 + 8 destroyed irrevocably knocked out / damaged as a result of = 14 pcs.
    Mi-8: 7 irrevocably destroyed + 6 are hit / damaged as a result of = 14 pcs.
    aircraft at 20.00. 02.03.15 g .:
    Su-25: 19 + 1 destroyed irrevocably captured LC + 12 shot down / damaged. As a result, = 32 pcs. 02.03.15 at 20.00 g
    Su-27 - 1 unit. 01.09.14 Mr.
    Su-24: 2 destroyed irretrievably + 1 hit / damaged. Total = 3 pcs.
    MIG-29: 2 units. destroyed.
    Destroyed AN-30 (reconnaissance) + 3, IL-76 (transporters) + AN-26 (freighter).
    UAV - 24 pcs. at 06. 10. 2015

    motor vehicle (6 - Hammer, GAZ-66 - 11 pcs., Ural - 70 pcs., KAMAZ - 47 pcs., ZIL-131 - 4 pcs. KrAZ - 1, crank - 2 pcs.) TOTAL 706 cars on 1.06 2015 city
    road tractor (ATL, MTLB) - 80 units. on 06.06.15, the

    Tanks: T-64 and other types - 529 pcs. on 08.10.15, the
    Bulat tanks - 2 pieces. 10.00 on 26. 12. 2014 (captured)
    Leopard tank - 1 units. on 10.23.2014, the

    BTR - 397 pcs. at 10.00 1.0 2015
    BTR "Bucephalus" - 7 pcs. 2015 at 12.03
    BTR-4E - 2 pcs. on 12.21.14, the
    BMP-1, BMP-2 - 285 pcs. 2015 at 10.08
    BMD - 52 pcs. 19.00 to 27.01 2015
    BRDM - 19 pcs.

    MLRS BM 21 "Grad" - 104 pcs. on 08.14.2015, the (in Vol. h. captured)
    MLRS "Smerch" (9K58- 300 mm.) - 14 pcs. on 01.27.15, the
    240-mm self-propelled heavy mortar "Tulip" - 9 pcs.
    MLRS multiple rocket launchers (140 9P) "Hurricane" - 17 pcs.
    2C3 152 mm self-propelled guns, "Acacia" - 13 pcs.
    ACS-152 "Elizabeth" - 1 pc.
    SAU-2S9 "NONA" - 26 pcs.
    SAU "Carnation" 2S1, etc. -. 54 pcs. 2015 at 04.06
    SAU "ICCA C - 9 pcs. on 01.08.2015, the
    152-mm towed howitzer 2A65 "MSTA-B" - 6 pcs.
    SAU - "Peony" - 21 pcs. on 02/18/2015.
    mortars, 120 mm - 113 pcs. on 01.06.2015, the
    mortars caliber 82 mm - 49 units.
    howitzer D-30 - 99 pcs. 2015 at 04.06
    anti-aircraft gun (ZU-23-2) - 23 pcs. 00 to 11. 01.02. 2015
    Installation ATGM "Competition" - 3 pcs. 07.17.2014 at 10.00 g
    anti-tank guns MT-12e (100 um) "Rapier" - 37 pcs.
    gunboats - 3 units.
    self-propelled 152-mm gun "Hyacinth" -2 units.
    Heavy weapons delivery foreign - 2 units
    tactical missile point - "U" - 3 pcs. on 08.20.2015, the
    Warehouses of ammunition, weapons and fuel - 18 objects.

    RT reports, "German intelligence service estimates the real losses in the Ukrainian civil war at 50,000 dead (civilians and servicemen), which is nearly 10 times higher than reported by the Kiev authorities, German media report." To quote them directly, "“Germany’s special services estimate the probable number of deceased Ukrainian servicemen and civilians at up to 50,000 people. This figure is about 10 times higher than official data. Official figures are clearly too low and not credible,” the newspaper reported recently.

    Now using the UN numbers, Kiev's missing numbers and German intelligence, we can give a rough understanding of the vast numbers of humans killed in this war. It falls at about 30,000 dead for Kiev of it's troops,about another 5000 dead or missing including the US Special Forces,CIA, FBI and DEA guys CIA Director Brennan came over to try and get back. Plus about 20,000 other deaths of civilians from both sides. No 100% accurate accounting of war deaths is ever possible. But the takeaway today is the Western media continues to black out and outright lie about the vast numbers killed in the Donbass war. As Stalin said, " One death is a tragedy, a million just a number." Reviewing the losses here in Donbass we must conclude the price paid for America's greed includes a body count known to God, and lied about by man.

    Sources:

    https://www.rt.com/news/230363-ukraine-real-losses-german-intelligence/
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Office_for_the_Coordination_of_Humanitarian_Affairs
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Ukrainian_crisis
    http://tass.ru/en/world/814475
    http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026196817
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzjFAfzHACs

    DONi News Agency


    auslander
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #25

    Post  auslander on Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:03 am

    Good find. Thank you. I believe this count is fairly accurate.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #25

    Post  kvs on Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:31 am

    I have followed this conflict since day one and it was clear that the UN numbers were gathered from media coverage.
    I ran my own estimates from what was reported. It is easy to accept that the media only reported on 10% of the
    casualties. The western media almost totally avoid sending any reporters to the front lines. The media coverage was
    nothing like Vietnam or even WWII and in those wars the media did not stream information about every casualty either.
    Only an investigation and compilation of reports from the military can give a plausible assessment of the casualties.
    The UN clowns clearly do not conduct any such investigation. They are waste of money engaged in amateur 3rd
    hand partial information compilation. They serve as a "legitimization" of garbage numbers and hence the propaganda
    interests of NATO.

    The above article twists the facts about the Kiev regime losses. There wasn't some sort of magic attack. The
    Kiev idiots got themselves into cauldrons and were MLRSed into oblivion. They have themselves to blame.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #25

    Post  sepheronx on Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:20 am

    Thank the lord Motorla is fine. but the thing that gets me is the number of such attacks happening. How easy is it for these PUkrainian terrorists that enter Novorussian territory to cause havoc? As well, I know the authorities of NR gave indication about their sources inside Ukraine proper, so I only assume both sides have their agents.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #25

    Post  Khepesh on Sat Jun 25, 2016 9:56 am

    The eternal problem with any civil war, traitors on both sides. Radio beacons for ukrops artillery are still being planted in Donetsk, unexplained explosions occur behind ukrops front lines with ammunition. The explosion at the tankfest last summer was probably result of traitor within VSN. At least the situation is better than in 1917-21 when sometimes entire regiments changed sides, then back again, then back again, and on.....

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #25

    Post  Khepesh on Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:47 pm

    Zakharchenko has issued a warning of high probability of war resuming at this time. UA are conducting large scale tactical offensive exercises in Chernigov oblast, with the core of the formation being 1st Seperate Tank Brigade. Exercise involves combined arms and UAF. It has also been reported over the last several days that ukrops are scouring the streets for cannon fodder and higher intensity sweeps of occupied DNR settlements for, in their terms, "undesirables". The exercises at Chernigov began on 22nd, the same day there were video and eye witness accounts of largish scale movements of ukrops forces towards the northern sector of the front.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #25

    Post  calm on Sun Jun 26, 2016 2:41 pm

    Ukr. TV calls for creation of concentration camps for people of Donbass | Eng Subs
    Read more at http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=878_1466610724#gPyBoR4KQSCiFBRr.99

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #25

    Post  Godric on Sun Jun 26, 2016 10:47 pm

    calm wrote:Ukr. TV calls for creation of concentration camps for people of Donbass | Eng Subs
    Read more at http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=878_1466610724#gPyBoR4KQSCiFBRr.99

    I thought I would wait a few hours before I calmed down after watching that video ... I'm still shaking with rage ... disgust and anger does not even come close

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #25

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