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    How to collapse the EU? - Brexit

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    KiloGolf
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    Re: How to collapse the EU? - Brexit

    Post  KiloGolf on Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:40 pm

    Godric wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote:seriously lay off the drugs mate Scotland is surrounded by untapped oil and gas £1.5 trillion in the north sea and north atlantic rim then their is the entire west coast margin which oil and gas reserves far exceeds anything in the entire north sea including Norway's sector

    Untapped oil =/= exploitable.

    [quote="Godric"what part of every single region of Scotland voted to remain in the EU do you not understand ??

    EU membership is a UK vote and UK issue. The UK voted as a whole and the UK was admitted as a whole in the first place.
    Same as in Spain, Belgium and so on.

    Godric wrote:the UK would be breaking UNCLOS and would be cast as a pariah state as our maritime waters are recognised around the world

    If the islanders decide to remain with the UK or later disassociate from a failing/bankrupt rScotland, it is up to them really.
    The Royal Navy will just safeguard that right of theirs.

    Godric wrote:I seriously don't know what your bitch is with Scotland ... the EU is way more important to Scotland than the UK will ever do ... our ties with France date back to 1295 the oldest alliance in the world that has never been severed "The Auld Alliance" when Scots soldiers landed on Normandy in 1944 they kept their 650 year bond with France to defend France

    you are living in a fantasy if you think the UK could force us to remain in the UK

    the Royal Navy had to use a mothballed 40 year old destroyer to escort the Admiral Kuznetsov 5 years ago and the type 23 frigates are nearing their end of service date

    I am seriously starting to think you are a troll

    You're just pro-EU, it's OK to disagree. Your stance in repeating a referendum till ''we get it right'' is typical EU. Nobody forced the voters of Scotland (not all ethnic Scots btw) to remain in the UK in 2014 and nobody can force certain islands or counties of Scotland to remain in a prospective new country.


    Last edited by KiloGolf on Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:42 pm; edited 1 time in total

    Godric
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    Re: How to collapse the EU? - Brexit

    Post  Godric on Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:41 pm

    JohninMK wrote: Think about the future not about the past oil glories. NS oil is, to a very great extent gone both in terms of its volume and taxable value so any tax yield in the future will be a fraction of the past plus there are all the decommission costs.

    £1.5 Trillion in oil and gas that they know of in the North sea and North Atlantic margin and the geologists claim their is more oil and gas on our west coast margin than their ever was in the entire north sea including Norway's sector ... I saw the geological survey ships in the mid 90s in the firth of Clyde

    Currently the UK Treasury is subsidising Scotland's budget which is not sustainable without money input from outside the country, be it loans or grants. Part of the UK deficit being run up by London goes to Scotland.

    seriously the UK is subsidising Scotland the same government that came out with £15 billion black hole within a week it came down to £5 billion after the removed the figures for us paying towards English capital projects how much is the UK's black hole £80 billion deficit and £70 billion in loans and according to UK government figures going back 35 years every single year Scotland has been a net contributor in the 80s it was 40% plus 90s it ranged from 20 - 30%


    You MAY get your referendum but only if Nicola thinks she can win it and all she is saying atm is that it is an 'option'. You can stake your life savings on her not wanting to go down in history as the person who killed the dream by losing twice in quick succession thus losing everything. She is a very clever lady, much better to be seen as wise, to stay in power, to sit back and watch, to keep the dream alive and see how things turn out for everyone over the next 5 years of turmoil, after which the World will be a different place. Especially as, on top of that, the private personal rewards of staying onside to TPTB are so considerable (see Tony Blair as an example).


    Nicola doesn't think she will win it she knows she will win it ... the no campaign has no viable leader to lead them ... the newspapers are now behind us the UK is finished

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    Re: How to collapse the EU? - Brexit

    Post  Godric on Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:46 pm

    seriously read up maritime law and islands because you are spouting sh!te you do not understand if Orkneys or Shetlands left Scotland their maritime zone is 12 miles around the coast the rest is the maritime borders of the mainland .... this is my last response to you ... you are spouting *rap

    KiloGolf
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    Re: How to collapse the EU? - Brexit

    Post  KiloGolf on Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:47 pm

    Godric wrote:£1.5 Trillion in oil and gas that they know of in the North sea and North Atlantic margin

    Typical myth. Not all of that is exploitable so as to make profit. Even if profit can be made out of all those reserves (unlikely) only at best a 10% will go to state budget directly. And it will take many decades to get production going and running. So you're looking at best at 50 or 100 billion reaching your budget in the quarter century or so. By that time the EU austerity loans will have matured and will suck most those so monies out.

    welcome

    Godric wrote:seriously read up maritime law and islands because you are spouting sh!te you do not understand if Orkneys or Shetlands left Scotland their maritime zone is 12 miles around the coast the rest is the maritime borders of the mainland .... this is my last response to you ... you are spouting *rap

    They both have respective EEZ as archipelago islands with native population.
    They will take away over 20% of what could be Scotland's EEZ. If not more because UK could challenge the western Scot EEZ as well, from N.I.

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    Re: How to collapse the EU? - Brexit

    Post  JohninMK on Sat Jun 25, 2016 7:50 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:
    Godric wrote:£1.5 Trillion in oil and gas that they know of in the North sea and North Atlantic margin

    Typical myth. Not all of that is exploitable so as to make profit. Even if profit can be made out of all those reserves (unlikely) only at best a 10% will go to state budget directly. And it will take many decades to get production going and running. So you're looking at best at 50 or 100 billion reaching your budget in the quarter century or so. By that time the EU austerity loans will have matured and will suck most those so monies out.

    welcome

    Godric wrote:seriously read up maritime law and islands because you are spouting sh!te you do not understand if Orkneys or Shetlands left Scotland their maritime zone is 12 miles around the coast the rest is the maritime borders of the mainland .... this is my last response to you ... you are spouting *rap

    They both have respective EEZ as archipelago islands with native population.
    They will take away over 20% of what could be Scotland's EEZ. If not more because UK could challenge the western Scot EEZ as well, from N.I.
    I'm with you on this.

    Godric is trying to tell us about all that oil out there around Scotland that has been known about for decades and even with oil well over $100, and expected to stay that high, yet it has not been exploited. Even the Norwegians are not pumping out of some fields at current prices. But now that oil is sub $50 and expected to be no more than that for years with a probable production cost north of $60, a miracle of Scottish independence will cause the oil companies to flood into some of the most difficult oil extraction areas on earth. Pigs will fly before that happens.

    The Orkneys and Shetlands are sitting ducks to be offered anything up to almost Isle of Man status by a Government in London using all the power at its disposal to keep Scotland in the UK. In the days it didn't matter the England/Scotland border near Berwick as I understand it goes out to sea horizontally along the latitude line as opposed to the 90 degrees to the shore more usually used. Expect that to change chopping more out from Scotland. If TPTB see something being taken from them Scotland should expect nothing but dirty tricks and tough negotiations. Rothschild did not multiply his fortune in the middle of June 1815 by being a gentleman and his descendants won't either.

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    Re: How to collapse the EU? - Brexit

    Post  JohninMK on Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:10 pm

    Godric wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:

    You MAY get your referendum but only if Nicola thinks she can win it and all she is saying atm is that it is an 'option'. You can stake your life savings on her not wanting to go down in history as the person who killed the dream by losing twice in quick succession thus losing everything. She is a very clever lady, much better to be seen as wise, to stay in power, to sit back and watch, to keep the dream alive and see how things turn out for everyone over the next 5 years of turmoil, after which the World will be a different place. Especially as, on top of that, the private personal rewards of staying onside to TPTB are so considerable (see Tony Blair as an example).


    Nicola doesn't think she will win it she knows she will win it ... the no campaign has no viable leader to lead them ... the newspapers are now behind us the UK is finished
    I am pleased to hear that you know what Nicola really thinks as opposed to what she wants the public to believe. She is making all the noises that one would expect her to be making at the moment re the UK and the EU and if you, as a ScotNat want to believe it, good on you. Its just that others, like me, have a slightly more jaundiced view of politician's utterings.

    I am also a bit surprised that you would not regard Ruth Davidson as a viable 'No' leader. Also that just because the newspapers are onside its a done deal.

    Do you really want to vote to go back to the vassal status in the EU, like certain Balkan or Baltic states, that we have just fought to get us, including you, out of? Do you really think that Brussels is going to devote any time over the next couple of years to a small, and insignificant to them, country like Scotland when their world is falling about them?

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    Re: How to collapse the EU? - Brexit

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:12 pm


    Can we at least wait for Brexit to be completed before going full Mel Gibson here?

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    Re: How to collapse the EU? - Brexit

    Post  KiloGolf on Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:41 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    I am pleased to hear that you know what Nicola really thinks as opposed to what she wants the public to believe. She is making all the noises that one would expect her to be making at the moment re the UK and the EU and if you, as a ScotNat want to believe it, good on you. Its just that others, like me, have a slightly more jaundiced view of politician's utterings.

    I am also a bit surprised that you would not regard Ruth Davidson as a viable 'No' leader. Also that just because the newspapers are onside its a done deal.

    Do you really want to vote to go back to the vassal status in the EU, like certain Balkan or Baltic states, that we have just fought to get us, including you, out of? Do you really think that Brussels is going to devote any time over the next couple of years to a small, and insignificant to them, country like Scotland when their world is falling about them?

    Nicola is a typical small-country EU fanboy politician: unwise, inept, offering nothing but promises and running deficits like crazy.
    Spending in Scotland is out of control and taxes will be increased very soon. I guess to keep their zombie voters happy, till it's too late.



    ^^^ yeap that looks like the typical vassal EU country with zero geopolitical significance.
    Scotland, the new Greece, Lithuania, etc. Take a pick.

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    Re: How to collapse the EU? - Brexit

    Post  Godric on Sat Jun 25, 2016 9:02 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    Godric wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:

    You MAY get your referendum but only if Nicola thinks she can win it and all she is saying atm is that it is an 'option'. You can stake your life savings on her not wanting to go down in history as the person who killed the dream by losing twice in quick succession thus losing everything. She is a very clever lady, much better to be seen as wise, to stay in power, to sit back and watch, to keep the dream alive and see how things turn out for everyone over the next 5 years of turmoil, after which the World will be a different place. Especially as, on top of that, the private personal rewards of staying onside to TPTB are so considerable (see Tony Blair as an example).


    Nicola doesn't think she will win it she knows she will win it ... the no campaign has no viable leader to lead them ... the newspapers are now behind us the UK is finished
    I am pleased to hear that you know what Nicola really thinks as opposed to what she wants the public to believe. She is making all the noises that one would expect her to be making at the moment re the UK and the EU and if you, as a ScotNat want to believe it, good on you. Its just that others, like me, have a slightly more jaundiced view of politician's utterings.

    I am also a bit surprised that you would not regard Ruth Davidson as a viable 'No' leader. Also that just because the newspapers are onside its a done deal.

    Do you really want to vote to go back to the vassal status in the EU, like certain Balkan or Baltic states, that we have just fought to get us, including you, out of? Do you really think that Brussels is going to devote any time over the next couple of years to a small, and insignificant to them, country like Scotland when their world is falling about them?

    John the UK is finished ... we are a vassal state within the UK .... you cannot see it we are leaving another referendum will be called soon we (SNP) are organising the legislation for another Indy Ref we will be out the UK within the next 4 months it won't be the 2 year campaign we had the last time .... Ruth Davidson is a joke .... obviously you do not understand Scotland we hate Tories with a passion even the land owners are farmers are coming out for Indy

    Kilo Golf you can spout all the figures you want but IFS is owned by Lord Astor a Tory Peer and Gers was founded by the Tory government in the 1990s their figures have been ridiculed £15 billion down to £5 billion in less than two weeks ... your obsession with Scotland is quite ridiculous

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    Re: How to collapse the EU? - Brexit

    Post  KiloGolf on Sat Jun 25, 2016 9:14 pm

    Godric wrote:Kilo Golf you can spout all the figures you want but IFS is owned by Lord Astor a Tory Peer and Gers was founded by the Tory government in the 1990s their figures have been ridiculed £15 billion down to £5 billion in less than two weeks ... your obsession with Scotland is quite ridiculous

    Scotland, by any account is running a good 10 billion GBP deficit. If it's 13 or 9.5 makes little difference. It's high, it's there to stay and won't go away with the moronic spending (e.g. independence) and platitudes of that leprechaun-like Merkel over there. Also, it's not an obsession, just an interesting example on how EU (with local politicians and zombified voters) can lobby, expand, take over and eventually ruin countries.

    I have lived in your future, and it didn't work.

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    Re: How to collapse the EU? - Brexit

    Post  JohninMK on Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:55 pm

    Godric wrote:
    John the UK is finished ... we are a vassal state within the UK  .... you cannot see it we are leaving another referendum will be called soon we (SNP) are organising the legislation for another Indy Ref we will be out the UK within the next 4 months it won't be the 2 year campaign we had the last time .... Ruth Davidson is a joke .... obviously you do not understand Scotland we hate Tories with a passion even the land owners are farmers are coming out for Indy
    I think we would agree on much but for me having a much more cynical view on life. I would have agreed if you had said that the UK, including Scotland etc, is bankrupt but I would not say that it is finished. I do agree that to an extent for the last few centuries Scotland has been a vassal state to England but that it is much less now than it has been.

    Whether there is another referendum we will have to just wait and see but even if there is you won't be out of the UK in 4 months, civil servants just can't move that fast! Of course that is what the landowners are saying, to them it is about supporting the SNP in a very real attempt to head off the threat of land seizure. But the really difficult issues from last time still have to be addressed, like for example what currency and what national debt, under what basis would the EU accept Scotland, in Schengen? On top of that the English would probably play hardball, Scotland closes Holyport and Faslane and London shuts Lossiemouth and warship building on the Clyde as well as HMRC jobs in Livingston. These are part of the reasons why the vote failed last time and next time the 'fear' element of the 'no' campaign will be on steroids.

    As to Ruth D, whilst you might regard her as a joke and hate the Tories, you have to admit that not every Scot does as they are now the second largest party in Holyrood in part due to her leadership.

    I do understand something of Scotland, I lived in Edinburgh for three years selling computers into local government. I tell you, local government in Strathclyde was a real eyeopener, talk about fiefdoms, never seen anything like it.

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    Post  d_taddei2 on Sun Jun 26, 2016 12:08 am

    KiloGolf wrote:
    Godric wrote:those figures he quotes are based on Scottish taxpayers paying for capital projects in England over £2 trillion worth that we will not have to pay for within a period of a week it went from £15 billion black hole to a £5 billion black hole ... UK has a deficit this year of £80 billion and the need to borrow £70 billion more that is a black hole of £150 billion we export £79.5 billion of goods the UK exports in total including Scotland is £564 billion do the maths we make up 8.4% of the UK's population we has vast reserves of untapped oil and gas we have more natural resources than any other country in the EU

    UK also has the 5th largest Economy in the world and perfect ability for using lending facilities as much as they like. Most Scottish exports are to other parts of the country. Also not 100% of that 8.4% population are ethnic Scots with Strοnk ideas, let alone British. About half of them are pro-Britain Scots, English, other British, foreign, mixed, etc.

    Much of the offshore oil/gas as well as fishing grounds can be claimed if the UK decides to follow an aggressive policy of getting the Orkney and Shetland islanders on their side. They have as much in common with rScotland as they do with London. rScotland's EEZ will therefore be about half of what it could be today. The Royal Navy will do the rest and enforce it.

    In addition the southern and other counties of current Scotland, that voted strongly to stay in the UK could be given the option to leave an independent non-NATO, non-EU rScotland altogether. Much like Crimea really.  Very Happy



    Looking at the map above from less than 2 years ago, it's clear Scotland stays in the UK

    you keep stating figures from 2yrs ago, the attitude in Scotland has changed after the vote after they were lied to, and the so-called vow wasn't fully delivered the feelings have changed since 2014.

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    Post  d_taddei2 on Sun Jun 26, 2016 12:27 am

    JohninMK wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote:
    Godric wrote:£1.5 Trillion in oil and gas that they know of in the North sea and North Atlantic margin

    Typical myth. Not all of that is exploitable so as to make profit. Even if profit can be made out of all those reserves (unlikely) only at best a 10% will go to state budget directly. And it will take many decades to get production going and running. So you're looking at best at 50 or 100 billion reaching your budget in the quarter century or so. By that time the EU austerity loans will have matured and will suck most those so monies out.

    welcome

    Godric wrote:seriously read up maritime law and islands because you are spouting sh!te you do not understand if Orkneys or Shetlands left Scotland their maritime zone is 12 miles around the coast the rest is the maritime borders of the mainland .... this is my last response to you ... you are spouting *rap

    They both have respective EEZ as archipelago islands with native population.
    They will take away over 20% of what could be Scotland's EEZ. If not more because UK could challenge the western Scot EEZ as well, from N.I.
    I'm with you on this.

    Godric is trying to tell us about all that oil out there around Scotland that has been known about for decades and even with oil well over $100, and expected to stay that high, yet it has not been exploited. Even the Norwegians are not pumping out of some fields at current prices. But now that oil is sub $50 and expected to be no more than that for years with a probable production cost north of $60, a miracle of Scottish independence will cause the oil companies to flood into some of the most difficult oil extraction areas on earth. Pigs will fly before that happens.

    The Orkneys and Shetlands are sitting ducks to be offered anything up to almost Isle of Man status by a Government in London using all the power at its disposal to keep Scotland in the UK. In the days it didn't matter the England/Scotland border near Berwick as I understand it goes out to sea horizontally along the latitude line as opposed to the 90 degrees to the shore more usually used. Expect that to change chopping more out from Scotland. If TPTB see something being taken from them Scotland should expect nothing but dirty tricks and tough negotiations. Rothschild did not multiply his fortune in the middle of June 1815 by being a gentleman and his descendants won't either.

    currently there is a ban on drilling for oil off the west coast due to the MOD putting blockers on it due to Faslane, but going by what experts have said there is a huge amount of oil to be had on the west coast. But as always everyone sees oil as a curse but its not, and Scotland does have more than oil its economy. Whiskey which is one product generates £4.25Bn worth of exports and £1Bn in tax, it makes up a quarter of all UK food and drink revenues and it is also one of the UK's overall top 5 manufacturing export earners, this is from one product.

    but we can all quote figures from various sources, but at the end of the day if you like it or not and if Scotland will be better or worse off at least it will be free to make its own decisions on everything which is worth much more than money.

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    Re: How to collapse the EU? - Brexit

    Post  KiloGolf on Sun Jun 26, 2016 12:42 am

    d_taddei2 wrote:you keep stating figures from 2yrs ago, the attitude in Scotland has changed after the vote after they were lied to, and the so-called vow wasn't fully delivered the feelings have changed since 2014.

    Less than two years ago the EU stooges, Salmond and Sturgeon declared it was a "once in a lifetime opportunity".   lol1

    You don't get to do independence referendum based on annual polling, feelings or the frickin weather. It's unconstitutional and won't pass as easily, if at all. Unless the British are confident the separatist minority will loose.

    d_taddei2 wrote:at the end of the day if you like it or not and if Scotland will be better or worse off at least it will be free to make its own decisions on everything which is worth much more than money.

    Nope.

    At the end of the day (under such a scenario) Scotland will be under EU control, like Lithuania, tiny and unarmed. But also with the gigantic deficit like Greece or Spain circa 2009 and debt approaching 100% of its GDP. And belonging to a currency Union like the Euro (compulsory for EU entry) means it won't be a free country. A couple of billion from oil (at the very best) and a few more from whisky and tourism won't cut it. All that will go to service their debt.

    Scotland will be in EU Austerity Program from the moment it becomes independent, gets kicked out of the Pound and is forced to join the EU.

    PS. with oil less than 100 $ pb nobody cares go offshore in the Atlantic, Iran is back in the game this year too and production is high study

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    Re: How to collapse the EU? - Brexit

    Post  George1 on Sun Jun 26, 2016 12:56 am



    _________________
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    Re: How to collapse the EU? - Brexit

    Post  ExBeobachter1987 on Sun Jun 26, 2016 1:00 am

    JohninMK wrote:Whether there is another referendum we will have to just wait and see but even if there is you won't be out of the UK in 4 months, civil servants just can't move that fast! Of course that is what the landowners are saying, to them it is about supporting the SNP in a very real attempt to head off the threat of land seizure. But the really difficult issues from last time still have to be addressed, like for example what currency and what national debt, under what basis would the EU accept Scotland, in Schengen? On top of that the English would probably play hardball, Scotland closes Holyport and Faslane and London shuts Lossiemouth and warship building on the Clyde as well as HMRC jobs in Livingston. These are part of the reasons why the vote failed last time and next time the 'fear' element of the 'no' campaign will be on steroids.

    Nukes, national debt, warships...

    This looks like Russia-Ukraine all over again.

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    Re: How to collapse the EU? - Brexit

    Post  KiloGolf on Sun Jun 26, 2016 1:14 am

    ExBeobachter1987 wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:Whether there is another referendum we will have to just wait and see but even if there is you won't be out of the UK in 4 months, civil servants just can't move that fast! Of course that is what the landowners are saying, to them it is about supporting the SNP in a very real attempt to head off the threat of land seizure. But the really difficult issues from last time still have to be addressed, like for example what currency and what national debt, under what basis would the EU accept Scotland, in Schengen? On top of that the English would probably play hardball, Scotland closes Holyport and Faslane and London shuts Lossiemouth and warship building on the Clyde as well as HMRC jobs in Livingston. These are part of the reasons why the vote failed last time and next time the 'fear' element of the 'no' campaign will be on steroids.

    Nukes, national debt, warships...

    This looks like Russia-Ukraine all over again.

    You forgot about EU Cool
    And yes, I agree.

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    Re: How to collapse the EU? - Brexit

    Post  OminousSpudd on Sun Jun 26, 2016 2:40 am

    ExBeobachter1987 wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:Whether there is another referendum we will have to just wait and see but even if there is you won't be out of the UK in 4 months, civil servants just can't move that fast! Of course that is what the landowners are saying, to them it is about supporting the SNP in a very real attempt to head off the threat of land seizure. But the really difficult issues from last time still have to be addressed, like for example what currency and what national debt, under what basis would the EU accept Scotland, in Schengen? On top of that the English would probably play hardball, Scotland closes Holyport and Faslane and London shuts Lossiemouth and warship building on the Clyde as well as HMRC jobs in Livingston. These are part of the reasons why the vote failed last time and next time the 'fear' element of the 'no' campaign will be on steroids.

    Nukes, national debt, warships...

    This looks like Russia-Ukraine all over again.

    But oh so much more glorious. Rome is, finally, eating her own sons. Twisted Evil

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    Post  d_taddei2 on Sun Jun 26, 2016 3:45 am

    KiloGolf wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:you keep stating figures from 2yrs ago, the attitude in Scotland has changed after the vote after they were lied to, and the so-called vow wasn't fully delivered the feelings have changed since 2014.

    Less than two years ago the EU stooges, Salmond and Sturgeon declared it was a "once in a lifetime opportunity".   lol1

    You don't get to do independence referendum based on annual polling, feelings or the frickin weather. It's unconstitutional and won't pass as easily, if at all. Unless the British are confident the separatist minority will loose.

    d_taddei2 wrote:at the end of the day if you like it or not and if Scotland will be better or worse off at least it will be free to make its own decisions on everything which is worth much more than money.

    Nope.

    At the end of the day (under such a scenario) Scotland will be under EU control, like Lithuania, tiny and unarmed. But also with the gigantic deficit like Greece or Spain circa 2009 and debt approaching 100% of its GDP. And belonging to a currency Union like the Euro (compulsory for EU entry) means it won't be a free country. A couple of billion from oil (at the very best) and a few more from whisky and tourism won't cut it. All that will go to service their debt.

    Scotland will be in EU Austerity Program from the moment it becomes independent, gets kicked out of the Pound and is forced to join the EU.

    PS. with oil less than 100 $ pb nobody cares go offshore in the Atlantic, Iran is back in the game this year too and production is high study

    i am guessing that you are anti Scottish, because you surely can't be anti independence after all Macedonia got its independence in September 1991 or would you rather it wasn't?

    you keep comparing Scotland to Lithuania but Lithuanian and Scottish are completely different and Scottish economy is much better and GDP is way more different scottish GDP 209,869Bn euros compaired to Lithuanian GDP 37Bn. exports for Lithuania 25Bn euros and Scotland 93.5Bn euros,

    Scottish economy as you mention whiskey, oil, and tourism (£5Bn) but also includes:

    Manufacturing (including ship building which being independent could make ships for whoever they wish)

    Textiles

    Construction (£11.5Bn)

    Gas

    Financial Services (around £7Bn) and (Scotland is one of the world's biggest fund management centres with over £300bn worth of assets directly serviced or managed in the country)

    Electronics (Scotland produces 28% of Europe's PCs; more than seven per cent of the world's PCs; and 29% of Europe's notebooks) (and it even has its own mini Silicon valley called Silicon Glen)

    Software industry

    Agriculture

    Fishing industry (it lands over 60% of the total catch in the UK)

    Renewable energy
    (The natural resource base for renewables is extraordinary by European, and even global standards. Scotland has an estimated potential of 36.5 GW of wind and 7.5 GW of tidal power, 25% of the estimated total capacity for the European Union and up to 14 GW of wave power potential, 10% of EU capacity.

    I am proud of my country (Scotland) and want the people of Scotland to be able to make there own decisions on everything and nobody can say that they wouldnt want the same for their country. And the best people to tell you how it really is and how it actually feels is the people actually living there too many people read BBC propaganda machine its always better to do your own homework to find more accurate info.

    KiloGolf
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    Re: How to collapse the EU? - Brexit

    Post  KiloGolf on Sun Jun 26, 2016 4:22 am

    d_taddei2 wrote:i am guessing that you are anti Scottish

    you keep comparing Scotland to Lithuania but Lithuanian and Scottish are completely different and Scottish economy is much better and GDP is way more different scottish GDP 209,869Bn euros compaired to Lithuanian GDP 37Bn. exports for Lithuania 25Bn euros and Scotland 93.5Bn euros,

    ...

    I am proud of my country (Scotland) and want the people of Scotland to be able to make there own decisions on everything and nobody can say that they wouldnt want the same for their country. And the best people to tell you how it really is and how it actually feels is the people actually living there too many people read BBC propaganda machine its always better to do your own homework to find more accurate info.

    I appreciate the overblown talking points. I've seen some of them before, they don't add anything to this debate. This is not about the Economy of UK Scotland. A subsidized, semi-federal region of the UK (a unitary sovereign country and net EU contributor). Being warned of the dangers involved joining the EU in 2016 is just that. I'm not anti anything, just pro logic. People are free to be ill-informed and bury their heads in the sand.

    The strong aspects in any pre-EU Economy matter little in an ensuing decade of EU candidacy and/or membership and could be erased altogether. Yet I will focus here: "Scotland produces 28% of Europe's PC". Well... lol1 Even if you claimed assembly of certain parts it would still be a bold statement, but fascinating stuff nevertheless that doesn't mean much.

    Lithuania was mentioned due to its comparable, very small population before secession and the ensuing huge flight of human capital after they declared independence, continuing non-stop even after joining EU in 2004, to this very day. Nearly 1 million, 20% of its people have abandoned the country. They also foolishly joined the Euro, having witnessed its structural faults and stagnation.

    Greece and Spain were mentioned due to the systemic high deficit they used to exhibit before EU Austerity kicked in, and destroyed their Economies, with the former loosing over 1/4 of its GDP. Now deficit of 10% GDP for Scotland is a humongous number, with crisis-ridden Greece at 7% and Spain at 5%.

    Scotland going it alone and joining the EU, say in 2020 will face big problems. The poor numbers will earn Scotland, in the real world, credit ratings of pretty much junk, no ability to issue and sell bonds in the markets and thus Brussels slapping them with an Austerity programme, as failing to fulfill Maastricht/EU Treaty criteria and possibly unable to stay afloat. And that is if their plea for instant accession after indy2 referendum is accepted by Brussels (not likely).

    Again, let that sink in for a moment:



    afro

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    Re: How to collapse the EU? - Brexit

    Post  Singular_trafo on Sun Jun 26, 2016 9:30 am

    JohninMK wrote:
    Interesting post but I think you have far less to worry about than you think.

    There is no indication the the Brexit 'team' have any intention of either sending back wholesale or stopping the flow of people to/from the EU. The economic case is too strong for that and the British are not known for turning down profit opportunities. The problem that will be addressed is the shear numbers, that we can't cope with.

    Much more likely is that the flows will be controlled, as they used to be, by work permits/visas. Those already here will, in the main if they are in employment, be issued with permits and stay whilst those we need can come. This is especially true for seasonal workers who will come and go, as in the past, rather than try and stay all year as now.

    This is beneficial for the EU as well, they will not want these people home to possible unemployment plus they get the money sent home. In return they will not want to send back to the UK our nationals, they are too economically valuable to them. Just think of the effect on Spain if they had to send back our retirees. A property crash, followed by a Spanish bank crash followed by a Euro central bank crisis.

    Now the Remain fear strategy is gone we are going to find that down at our level very little will actually change and I suspect in a couple of years time a lot of the Remain people will be wondering what all the fuss was about. As they watch the continuing turmoil over the Channel.

    Why shall I have fear ?

    I'm British citizen, my kids are (or will be soon) British as well.


    I think you don't get my main point:
    In the UK( or as a matter of fact, everywhere around the world) there is a buyers market for workforce.
    The business for I work has more profit than the whole sallary+bonus pool.
    The sallaries are pushed down by the spanish and polish, because they are representing an infinite supply from a disfuntional monetary zone (zloty and euro)

    Due to that the sallaries stagnationg.

    Eight years ago I came to Britain for the same salalry that I made at home, but now the market price droped way bellow that.
    Means in eight years time the only sallary increase happaned due to the minimal wage increase, not due to job market pressure on the restricted supply side.

    So, this brexit is a very good thing actualy.And hopefully it will start a process that makes free the Spain,Greece, France, ITaly and so on.

    Godric
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    Re: How to collapse the EU? - Brexit

    Post  Godric on Sun Jun 26, 2016 10:06 am

    those charts you keep posting to back you up are based on figures from GERS and IFS who are owned by Conservatives Lord Astor is David Cameron's father in law ffs

    anyway latest polls in 59% support another Independence vote ... the UK is finished away and cry in your greek salad

    ExBeobachter1987
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    Re: How to collapse the EU? - Brexit

    Post  ExBeobachter1987 on Sun Jun 26, 2016 12:39 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:Lithuania was mentioned due to its comparable, very small population before secession and the ensuing huge flight of human capital after they declared independence, continuing non-stop even after joining EU in 2004, to this very day. Nearly 1 million, 20% of its people have abandoned the country. They also foolishly joined the Euro, having witnessed its structural faults and stagnation.

    Huge flight of human capital?

    Is that not normal for Scotland?

    Why are you against return to normalcy?

    JohninMK
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    Re: How to collapse the EU? - Brexit

    Post  JohninMK on Sun Jun 26, 2016 1:18 pm

    Godric wrote:those charts you keep posting to back you up are based on figures from GERS and IFS who are owned by Conservatives Lord Astor is David Cameron's father in law ffs

    anyway latest polls in 59% support another Independence vote ... the UK is finished away and cry in your greek salad
    The last chart on Scotland's budget and funding was published by the UK's Office of National Statistics. The State owned bureaucracy tasked with publishing proper figures. Are you saying that it is wrong?

    Godric
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    Re: How to collapse the EU? - Brexit

    Post  Godric on Sun Jun 26, 2016 10:05 pm


    http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-scotland-germany-idUKKCN0ZC0R1


    Scotland welcome to join EU, Merkel ally says

    An independent Scotland would be welcome to join the European Union, a senior German lawmaker and ally of Chancellor Angela Merkel has said after Britain's vote to leave the bloc.
    "The EU will still consist of 28 member states, as I expect a new independence referendum in Scotland, which will then be successful," said Gunther Krichbaum, a member of Merkel's conservatives and chairman of the European affairs committee in parliament.

    "We should respond quickly to an application for admission from the EU-friendly country," he told the Welt am Sonntag newspaper.

    First Minister Nicola Sturgeon said on Sunday that Scotland will do whatever it takes to remain in the EU, including potentially blocking legislation on a British exit from the bloc.

    While Britain as a whole voted narrowly to leave the EU in last Thursday's referendum, Scotland voted by a 62 percent to 38 percent margin to remain. In a referendum in 2014 Scotland voted 55 percent to 45 percent to stay part of the United Kingdom, but polls show that support for independence has since risen.


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