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    Should Russians Give Far Right Parties An Opportunity?

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    Should Russians Give Far Right Parties An Opportunity?

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    jhelb
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    Should Russians Give Far Right Parties An Opportunity?

    Post  jhelb on Sun May 22, 2016 9:17 pm

    Far Right parties are making tremendous progress across Europe in Austria, Germany, France, Greece,Hungary Italy, UK among other European countries.

    Despite the fact that Russia has seen progress under Putin's United Russia Progress, there are several problems that Russia is facing:

    • Illegal Immigration of Asians

    • Sanctions Imposed by West

    • Unable to retaliate against the West


    Putin has been unable to solve these pressing issues that's affecting the lives of ordinary Russians. Therefore, should Russians now give an opportunity to Far Right parties to rule Russia?

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    Re: Should Russians Give Far Right Parties An Opportunity?

    Post  kvs on Sun May 22, 2016 9:39 pm

    jhelb wrote:Far Right parties are making tremendous progress across Europe in Austria, Germany, France, Greece,Hungary Italy, UK among other European countries.

    Despite the fact that Russia has seen progress under Putin's United Russia Progress, there are several problems that Russia is facing:


    • Illegal Immigration of Asians


    • Sanctions Imposed by West


    • Unable to retaliate against the West



    Putin has been unable to solve these pressing issues that's affecting the lives of ordinary Russians. Therefore, should Russians now give an opportunity to Far Right parties to rule Russia?

    The only barrier to any party is the amount of votes they get. There is a 5% cutoff for holding seats in the Duma. Parties also need
    to register with enough signatures to indicate that they are actual popular entities and not political devices at the control of foreign
    or domestic interests.

    1) Sanctions imposed by the west are not significantly affecting the lives of ordinary Russians. The west is too high on itself when it
    spouts such BS. Russia entered a genuine recession in 2014 which was reflected in the oil price collapse. The western mass media (MSM)
    spreads misinformation that there is some sort of glut of oil. BS. The price drop was due to a fall in global demand. Of course you
    would not think there is even a recession if you follow the MSM. The MSM is now a fully Orwellian structure. As posted in the
    Russian economy thread, there has been major growth in various economic sectors that has offset the recession impact compared to
    the 2008-2009 drop.

    2) Retaliation in the form of sanctions is the best that Russia can do and needs to do. Putin does not need to invade Ukraine to save it
    since it would achieve the total opposite effect. Ukrainians need to save themselves. Putin is helping Assad and successfully. The talk
    about Putin being impotent in the face of the west is BS.

    3) Asians coming to Russia for work will be an ongoing issue. But as in the case of the USA and its Mexican "problem" this is a
    minor issue that gets an excessive amount of political attention.

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    Re: Should Russians Give Far Right Parties An Opportunity?

    Post  jhelb on Sun May 22, 2016 9:53 pm

    kvs wrote:2) Retaliation in the form of sanctions is the best that Russia can do and needs to do.   Putin does not need to invade Ukraine to save it
    since it would achieve the total opposite effect.  Ukrainians need to save themselves.   Putin is helping Assad and successfully.   The talk
    about Putin being impotent in the face of the west is BS.

    Yes, that's what I was talking about. Retaliation in the form of sanctions. Putin failed to do that, big time. Because of his failure,the Yankees have rolled up tanks right up to the border with Russia & are setting up F-22 bases. Putin could have activated Russian air bases in the Caribbean, but he didn't.

    kvs wrote:3) Asians coming to Russia for work will be an ongoing issue.  But as in the case of the USA and its Mexican "problem" this is a
    minor issue that gets an excessive amount of political attention.

    This is a major issue in the US. More importantly it is a major issue in Russia as well. In cities like Moscow, Asian immigrants are on the verge of becoming the majority community.

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    Re: Should Russians Give Far Right Parties An Opportunity?

    Post  sepheronx on Sun May 22, 2016 10:26 pm

    jhelb wrote:

    This is a major issue in the US. More importantly it is a major issue in Russia as well. In cities like Moscow, Asian immigrants are on the verge of becoming the majority community.
    http://www.gks.ru/free_doc/new_site/perepis2010/croc/perepis_itogi1612.htm

    Are you sure of that? I don't think you are.

    http://worldpopulationreview.com/world-cities/moscow-population/

    Even if you count all illegals, then one is grasping at straws since Russia doesn't have the same laws dealing with illegals like others and can clamp down hard anytime.

    The registered 660,000 people since didn't specify what race either. They could be mostly Ukrainians since so many fled to Russia.

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    Re: Should Russians Give Far Right Parties An Opportunity?

    Post  jhelb on Sun May 22, 2016 10:46 pm

    sepheronx wrote:http://www.gks.ru/free_doc/new_site/perepis2010/croc/perepis_itogi1612.htm

    Are you sure of that? I don't think you are.

    http://worldpopulationreview.com/world-cities/moscow-population/

    You have provided data that is 5-6 years old. These are not the latest figures. But even then, from the link that you have provided:

    It's hard to even estimate where Moscow is today, as the number of migrants (legal and illegal) has made it impossible to keep track of Russia and Europe's largest city. While the official figure is 11.5 million as of 2010, this number could really be as high as 17 million today, and this makes it difficult to pinpoint where Moscow is going in the coming decades.

    sepheronx wrote:Even if you count all illegals, then one is grasping at straws since Russia doesn't have the same laws dealing with illegals like others and can clamp down hard anytime.

    The Kremlin till date has done nothing to clamp down on illegal immigration. Check this report

    According to the Russian Federal Migration Service, there were about 4.5 million citizens from the former Soviet republics of Central Asia residing in Russia as of December 4, 2014. This number accounts for 40 per cent of the total number of foreign citizens staying in Russia.The actual number of those who live and work in Russia is harder to calculate due to high rates of illegal migration, which some estimates place at up to 3.7 million people,and poor registration of labour migrants.

    http://osce-academy.net/upload/file/Policy_Brief_21.pdf

    I have personally seen several Asian communities like Chinese, Vietnamese, Indians, Arabs etc in the streets of Moscow. Quite certain they are living in Russia illegally. This is a very dangerous situation. These illegal Asian immigrants can turn Russia into another Germany or UK where the local population is dwindling & the number of immigrants is increasing.

    sepheronx wrote:The registered 660,000 people since didn't specify what race either. They could be mostly Ukrainians since so many fled to Russia.

    The link to the report that you provided did specify race. Moreover Ukrainians fleeing the conflict in Ukraine received Russian citizenship. So they are not illegal immigrants.

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    Re: Should Russians Give Far Right Parties An Opportunity?

    Post  sepheronx on Sun May 22, 2016 11:18 pm

    You provided no data but anecdotal evidence which doesn't work. As well, second link indicates the adjustment of till now, meaning registered new people of 660,000 people in Moscow. If you can do math, and realize that Moscow is over 90% Russian, and let's imagine all those registers are none Russians, then you will soon realize that you either can't do math or are lying. As well, there been cases of migrants overstating and being kicked out. Maybe not all 1M of them, but that is to say that they can if the need arises. Best to keep cheap labor some feel. Also Moscow and St.Pete are major tourist spots. There was roughly a few million tourists in 1 year. Did you ask to see all their passports?

    Your link that you provided is quite interesting and also gives some insight, but the issue at hand is a lot of it is not entirely certain on the amount of these people overall. So it makes it really hard to determine. After recently incidences with such people (the attack at the cemetery), many of them have been deported. And it really is just a matter of time till they piss off the wrong people and then all hell is broken loose. Remember the vietnamese gang in Moscow that ended up with a dead cop? Yeah, that was put to a stop pretty damn fast.

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    Re: Should Russians Give Far Right Parties An Opportunity?

    Post  RTN on Mon May 23, 2016 8:45 pm

    I am not sure if the far right will be the right option. A couple of years ago when I was there in Moscow the far right parties comprised a bunch of clueless people.

    I doubt they can make any meaningful contribution. Unlike here in the US, right wing parties in Russia are not that well organized.

    That said, I suspect some of our Russian forum members like Vlad79, flamming_python, Mindstorm and others will know better.

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    Re: Should Russians Give Far Right Parties An Opportunity?

    Post  NationalRus on Tue May 24, 2016 4:03 pm

    as a far right nationalist i say of course, although im more or less in peace with the putin goverment in the moment

    and there are so very different far right groups of who are many openly aggressively imperialistic crazy like the strelkov aka here represented by guy like monarchist guys who would lead us in WW3 they should be kept out of reach of any power by a galactic length

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    Re: Should Russians Give Far Right Parties An Opportunity?

    Post  Khepesh on Sat May 28, 2016 3:13 pm

    Any sort of "far right" opposition in Russia is vapour. Groups that could be seen to fit the description, in regards of symbols, reputation etc, are in fact people who vote for Putin and their only "issues" are that Putin is seen as too cautious at times. Great over Georgia and Crimea, but too cautious over Donbass. If there was seen to be any serious issues with some of these groups, then why are they allowed to hold meetings in prestigious locations such as Museum of Great Patriotic War, where nazis will hardly be wellcomed, or to exist as uniformed armed groups carrying out military training at Moscow, and as military formations engaged in war in Donbass, such as "Rusych". If these groups are seen as potential "far right" opposition, they simply would not be allowed to exist. Being noisily patriotic, or using combinations of orthodox and rodnover symbols does not make anybody a nazi. At the "worst", such groups could be used as "lightning rods" to deflect potential opposition into places that are not really any sort of oppostion, simply look like it to outsiders. It is same in a sense as the function of Zhirinovsky. Is Nikolai Emelin a "far right opposition" figure simply because of symbolism?, if so, then what about Maria Arkhipova? and on and on. IMO, more "dangerous" are the extreme orthodox fanatics such as Chaplin, who of course like to slur those who do not have the same God, or any god at all. To me, and I simplify this somewhat, it is not so much an issue of "nazis" in Russia, it is an issue of the consequences of 1917 and then of 1991 still being played out, of people wanting to exercise personal freedom to believe publicly again what was supressed during Soviet times, and what was surpressed before the revolution, and the hedonism that has taken over the entire world, the desire for the latest gadget etc. So it can be seen as not a serious political issue such as it was in early 20th century with competing ideologies, and certainly not an issue of "nazis" or even Communists storming Kremlin when Putin eventually begins to fail in health or mind, but a religious issue combined with personal freedom and some taking advantage to simply be idiots in a way that they could not before 1991.

    After writing all that, I do accept that it is more nuanced than I have portrayed it, but any serious far right opposition to Putin in Russia, no. The issues will be what comes after Putin, who comes after Putin. Do not take this out of context and as any attack on Putin, but while he retains physical and mental health, all will be well, but if he begins to fail but still keeps power, then that could lead to a bad situation, like after Brezhnev with succession of zombies and eventually a traitor. I suspect Putin will retire and as long as the right man can follow him, no revolutions, no nazis storming Kremlin. A question is to seperate a nazi, real or imaginary, from a man like Girkin, who is clearly not a nazi, but not liked due to his involvement with K25, and his being rather pompous, who also cannot be seen as nazis, more like anarchist monarchists, if such a contradiction can exist. So forget nazis in Russia, it is either communists returning, which is unlikley but not impossible if Zyuganov is replaced by somebody far more dynamic, or somebody like Girkin, but not him, who may look like some sort of nazi, but only due to symbolism and the misinterpretation of nazism with nationalism with patriotism. The first is wrong, the second two have always been seen as normal in all countries, until modern times and the advent of "political correctness", the contrived conceit of American champagne socialists who would faint in horror if told to get their hands dirty and do real work like the "proles" they insulting patronize.

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    Re: Should Russians Give Far Right Parties An Opportunity?

    Post  franco on Sat May 28, 2016 4:31 pm

    Do you think Putin goes to 2024? He would be 72 at that point.

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    Re: Should Russians Give Far Right Parties An Opportunity?

    Post  Khepesh on Sat May 28, 2016 8:23 pm

    franco wrote:Do you think Putin goes to 2024? He would be 72 at that point.
    As long as he has his health I see no reason not to, 72 is not too old these days. I think he will continue as long as he thinks he can do the job properly, and as long as people vote for him. To me he does not seem to be the type of man who will continue clinging to power just for the sake of it, and particulary if at some point in the future if he is still president and he realises his faculties are failing. He isn't perfect of course, but who is.

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    Re: Should Russians Give Far Right Parties An Opportunity?

    Post  higurashihougi on Tue May 31, 2016 10:49 am

    @jhelb: (hey, hey, hey, I am an Asian) Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes attack attack

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    Re: Should Russians Give Far Right Parties An Opportunity?

    Post  jhelb on Tue May 31, 2016 4:28 pm

    higurashihougi wrote:@jhelb: (hey, hey, hey, I am an Asian) Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes attack attack

    Didn't get you. I was referring to Asians who illegally enter Russia from China, Central Asia, India, Afghanistan and Middle East.

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    Re: Should Russians Give Far Right Parties An Opportunity?

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jun 01, 2016 11:06 am

    Illegal Immigration of Asians


    Sanctions Imposed by West


    Unable to retaliate against the West

    Well not really sure what you mean... so you oppose the illegal immigration of Asians... what about the illegal immigration of whites or blacks?

    Why do you not simply oppose illegal immigration of any types?

    Regarding sanctions... do you think there would be more or less western sanctions with a right wing party in power in Russia?

    Unable to retaliate?

    I think Putins responses to western sanctions have been measured and actually rather clever.

    the food sanctions has enabled Russia to diversify its imports away from the EU and to also to develop a credible domestic production capacity... not perfect but much better off than less than 10 years ago.


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    Re: Should Russians Give Far Right Parties An Opportunity?

    Post  jhelb on Wed Jun 01, 2016 1:46 pm

    GarryB wrote:Well not really sure what you mean... so you oppose the illegal immigration of Asians... what about the illegal immigration of whites or blacks?

    Why do you not simply oppose illegal immigration of any types?

    Eh....illegal immigration of Whites and blacks in Russia? Frankly never heard/read of any White illegal immigrant in Russia. Some of them certainly did overstay their visa, but they were sent back.

    Re blacks I have seen a few in Moscow and St Petersburg & yes you are right, it's quite possible that they are illegal immigrant though I was told they are mostly student, so I suspect they had a student's visa.

    GarryB wrote:Regarding sanctions... do you think there would be more or less western sanctions with a right wing party in power in Russia?

    Unable to retaliate?

    Right wing parties will respond in kind. For example, among the dozens of sanctions directed against Russia, the most extreme one was proposed by the UK, which pressed European Union leaders to block Russian access to the SWIFT banking transaction system.Restricting Russian usage of SWIFT would no doubt disrupt financial and commercial activities in Russia.

    Far right Russian parties would have hit back by kicking out all EU based banks from Russia. Also, far right parties would have send the Russian military to Cuba, Mexico and Central America to remind the US that if it can roll up tanks to Russia's border , Russia can reply in kind.

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    Re: Should Russians Give Far Right Parties An Opportunity?

    Post  GarryB on Fri Jun 03, 2016 1:23 pm

    Far right Russian parties would have hit back by kicking out all EU based banks from Russia. Also, far right parties would have send the Russian military to Cuba, Mexico and Central America to remind the US that if it can roll up tanks to Russia's border , Russia can reply in kind.

    And do you think that will be constructive or destructive?

    NATO is clearly not going away, just because they act like dicks do you think it helps to act the same?

    Not all the world is against Russia, and more and more are seeing western democracy and morals for what they really are... do you think acting like the west will improve your position with the rest of the world or will they just think you are no better?

    If you want to keep your culture and remain unamericanised/westernised then I suggest you take a hard look at what you think is right and wrong and let your enemies behave anyway they like...

    It is like the old story about arguing with an idiot on the internet... if you fight fire with fire they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience...

    I mean really if you are going to be as dirty and two faced as they are what the hell is the point of remaining different? What are you fighting against?


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    Re: Should Russians Give Far Right Parties An Opportunity?

    Post  higurashihougi on Sat Jun 04, 2016 2:13 pm

    GarryB wrote:Regarding sanctions... do you think there would be more or less western sanctions with a right wing party in power in Russia?

    Unable to retaliate?

    I think Putins responses to western sanctions have been measured and actually rather clever.

    the food sanctions has enabled Russia to diversify its imports away from the EU and to also to develop a credible domestic production capacity... not perfect but much better off than less than 10 years ago.

    In fact there was no real sanction against Russia as Ford, Volkswagen, Boeing, Airbus and other Western giants continued to work with Russia as usual.

    The only real sanction so far is Russia's food sanction against EU... with disastrous effect for EU farmers and healthy long-term effect for Russian farmers.

    In fact I support a little more sanction, to fasten the domestication of Russian manufacture sectors, probly Russia should ban all kinds of Western luxuries and "branded goods" (clothes, cosmetics, condom etc etc).

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    Re: Should Russians Give Far Right Parties An Opportunity?

    Post  jhelb on Sun Jun 05, 2016 9:44 am

    GarryB wrote: and more and more are seeing western democracy and morals for what they really are...

    I really want to believe this part but I'm afraid right now in large parts of the world this is not true.

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    Re: Should Russians Give Far Right Parties An Opportunity?

    Post  GarryB on Sun Jun 05, 2016 12:29 pm

    The Americans are already bleating for more money to combat RT because organisations like CNN and the BBC are losing market share in a lot of places... or are you thinking the world believes the US because CNN and the BBC tell you so?



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    Re: Should Russians Give Far Right Parties An Opportunity?

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sun Jun 05, 2016 12:54 pm

    All of those are side issues. People most care about jobs and they aren't doing anything to make it easier to start a small business. SMEs have lost 300,000 jobs since 2012 and they were only 15% of the economy before that. Break up the monopolies and let us create jobs that don't have to be funded by the state, they will actually fund the state.


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    Re: Should Russians Give Far Right Parties An Opportunity?

    Post  higurashihougi on Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:32 am

    GarryB wrote:The Americans are already bleating for more money to combat RT because organisations like CNN and the BBC are losing market share in a lot of places... or are you thinking the world believes the US because CNN and the BBC tell you so?

    I don't know about the rest of the world. But I happend to encounter quite a number of Vietnameses who blindly believe in Western media. Including the ones who used to study in Soviet universities.

    That makes me feed frustated. Not only about the number of such peoples, but also how they blindly believe in Western propaganda. No matter how much evidences I present to them, they refused to admit their mistakes.

    I wonder what is going on.

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    Re: Should Russians Give Far Right Parties An Opportunity?

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:20 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:All of those are side issues.  People most care about jobs and they aren't doing anything to make it easier to start a small business.  SMEs have lost 300,000 jobs since 2012 and they were only 15% of the economy before that.  Break up the monopolies and let us create jobs that don't have to be funded by the state, they will actually fund the state.  

    You sure on that? And how many were created? I got some figures for 2015. And now are 20% of the economy.

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    Re: Should Russians Give Far Right Parties An Opportunity?

    Post  Vladimir79 on Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:23 pm

    sepheronx wrote:

    You sure on that? And how many were created? I got some figures for 2015. And now are 20% of the economy.

    If oil prices were what they were in 2012, SME output would be less than 15%.


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    Re: Should Russians Give Far Right Parties An Opportunity?

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:32 pm

    Maybe, maybe not. But then again, if oil prices were high still, I highly doubt there would be this current push for SME's and their importance to the economy. It was only mid last year they pushed all these new laws that give major support to SME's, and only this year will be the communication support system linking SME's to each other and major companies and government institutes.

    So the days now and or near future is great for those wanting to start a business. I guess it is thanks to low oil prices. Or maybe not (since oil prices, as been mentioned on this site linked to professionals that seem to have different figure, that oil gas rent only accounted for 20%~ so something replaced it for the year 2013-2014).

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