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    Mi-28N Havoc: News

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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  miketheterrible on Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:37 am

    There was claims I read that it was used in Syria onboard testing. So who knows.
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    robognus

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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  robognus on Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:29 pm

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    coolieno99

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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  coolieno99 on Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:15 am

    nice video on the manufacturing process of the Mi-28 attack helicopter


    Cyrus the great

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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  Cyrus the great on Mon Mar 27, 2017 4:02 am

    How does the NO25 radar compare to the Longbow?

    I still regard the Kamov helicopters to be the best in the world, but the fact that the Havoc has a radar with a 360° radius capability for ground operations gives it a substantial advantage over the Ka-52.

    The Ka-52 can partially overcome this disadvantage with its coaxial rotors by spinning on its axis and will have drones at its disposal to gather vital intelligence. Russia has obviously resolved that both the Ka-52 and the Mi-28 will serve in the air force -- with the incredibly advanced Ka-52 assuming the role of a command helicopter due to its powerful radar and its plethora of sensors.

    The Ka-50 is the only helicopter with comparable or superior armour protection to the Mi-28. The Ka-52 is not as well armoured as the Mi-28 and its side by side configuration further compromises the protection level; one penetration can kill both the pilot and the gunner.

    I read that one of the reasons the Ka-50 did not have the steped conventional tandem seat configuration was due to considerations of weight. I suppose it's too late now, but new metallurgical advances could make a stepped two seater Ka-50 variant a reality; the new lighter, stronger and cheaper metals could reduce the weight of such a platform -- making it 13% lighter than the Ka-50... one with the nose mounted radar of the Ka-52.

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    GarryB

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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  GarryB on Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:51 am

    The radar on the Mi-28NM has both cm wave and mm wave antennas which means it should vastly exceed all other helo mounted attack helo radars in terms of range.

    MM wave radar is not good for long range use as its energy is absorbed by moisture... it is often used in weather radar which can detect and track weather formations.

    In terms of attack performance a 360 degree radar is not that useful... like a fighter aircraft having a view to the side and behind makes little sense when your weapons don't face that way. As mentioned however a helo can easily turn to direct weapons in different directions and the fact that the new mast mounted radar can direct the Ataka and Krisantema missiles means it could turn and fire and then turn away while still guiding the missile... a rather useful feature.

    No doubt it will also be used for detecting incoming threats which can be used with the self defence suite to keep the aircraft safe.


    I read that one of the reasons the Ka-50 did not have the steped conventional tandem seat configuration was due to considerations of weight.

    Smile you joking? The Ka-50 does not have a stepped cockpit design because there is only the pilot and no gunner so there is no second crew position to "step".

    The Ka-52 has side by side seating to improve crew communication and to reduce weight... if you think about two separate armoured boxes, one for each crewman... if you put them one in front of the other then you can take away the front armour of the rear position. If you put them side by side then you can take the whole one side armour off both positions.

    The Mi-28 is very well armoured too... I have seen a 14.5mm HMG placed beside the cockpit and fired from less than 5 metres directly into the cockpit side glass and not penetrate.... that is outstanding protection... in comparison the Apaches side glass windows have been penetrated by AK bullets from the ground... ie at least a few hundred metres.


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    George1

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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  George1 on Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:27 pm

    Russia’s new combat helicopter to undergo tests in Syria

    The manufacturer would like to test the Mi-28UB helicopters in Syria

    MOSCOW, August 4. /TASS/. Russia’s newest helicopter Mi-28UB (with dual controls) will be tested in Syria, the CEO of the Helicopters of Russia company, Andrei Boginsky, has said.

    "Currently the Mi-28N helicopter has a crew of two - the pilot and the operator. The task of the new project is to turn the helicopters into a combined combat and training aircraft, with the full set of controls in front of both seats. We would like these helicopters [Mi-28UB - TASS] to undergo tests here [in Syria]," Boginsky said in an interview on the Zvezda TV news channel recorded at the Hmeymim air base.

    Earlier, the Helicopters of Russia general designer, Nikolai Pavlenko, said eight new Mi-28UB helicopters would be provided for the Aerospace Force later this year.

    The chief of the Aerospace Force’s army aviation combat training, Nikolai Pavlenko, said that the first Mi-28UB helicopters would be delivered to the 344th center of combat training and retraining center in Torzhok.

    Mi-28UB is a combined combat and training configuration of the attack helicopter Mi-28N Night Hunter. It began to be developed in 2010. The double control function is one of its key features. Although the helicopter is meant for training pilots, it retains all combat capabilities and can attack enemy targets and vehicles.


    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/959398


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    Airman

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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  Airman on Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:24 pm

    First 'Mi-28UB' Ready For Delivery

    Russian state company Rostec announced today that Rostvertol company of the Russian Helicopters (RH) produced the first Mi-28UB helicopters for the Russian Ministry of Defence. Rostec stated that the production of the first batch has begun at the plant in Rostov in 2016.

    Designed for the Russian Aerospace Forces, Mi-28UB 'Night Hunter' features a dual control system that allows piloting the helicopter from both command cockpit and operator's cockpit. Mi-28UB also have advanced avionics and communication systems, increasing the helicopter's reliability, safety and performance specifications.

    The Mi-28UB will be used for fire support of land advanced units and antitank defence. alongside its primary objective the helicopters can be used for flight training.

    RH plans to deliver 8 Night Hunters with dual control before the end of this year.

    First 'Mi-28UB' Ready For Delivery

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    George1

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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  George1 on Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:53 pm

    Russia’s Aerospace Force to get eight Mi-28UB helicopters by year-end

    Mi-28UB is a combat and training configuration of the attack helicopter Mi-28N Night Hunter

    PATRIOT THEME PARK, August 22. /TASS/. The Helicopters of Russia holding company (an affiliate of Rostec) by the end of the year will get eight new helicopters Mi-28UB Night Hunter with dual control, the company’s press-service said, adding that the first two helicopters have been manufactured and are being tested.

    "By now the Rostvertol company (an affiliate of the holding company Helicopters of Russia - TASS) has manufactured the first two serial Mi-28UB helicopters. At the moment they are undergoing acceptance tests at the factory. A total of eight combat and training Night Hunters with dual control are to be provided by the end of the year," the holding company said.

    Earlier, the chief of combat training of the Aerospace Force’s army aviation, Oleg Chesnokov, said the first Mi-28UBs will be delivered to the 334th combat training and retraining center in Torzhok. The center’s instruction personnel has already undergone a course of instruction to fly the upgraded helicopter.

    Helicopters of Russia CEO Andrey Boginsky said Mi-28UB is to be dispatched to Syria for testing.

    Mi-28UB is a combat and training configuration of the attack helicopter Mi-28N Night Hunter, which began to be developed in 2010. Dual control is one of its key features. Although it is meant primarily for training pilots, it has retained all attack capabilities and can be used to attack enemy facilities and vehicles.


    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/961339


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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:17 pm

    But the military is also considering the purchase of the more sophisticated variant, dubbed Mi-28NM. According to Boginsky, if the contract is approved soon, first deliveries could begin in 2018.
    The NM version made its first flight in October 2016. It is outfitted with a new radar and flight control system as well as improved avionics. The helicopter has a new movable 30-mm gun mount that enables the use of precision weapons, including guided missiles. It also has increased speed, thanks to new composite main rotor blades.
    http://aviationweek.com/defense/russian-combat-helicopters-increase-sophistication?NL=AW-05&Issue=AW-05_20170911_AW-05_658&sfvc4enews=42&cl=article_1&utm_rid=CPEN1000001576407&utm_campaign=11647&utm_medium=email&elq2=6e67d086f0944e12ae2111f7ff3d3aeb
    In time, some of them may be deployed on ships as well, like the Apaches in the RN. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AgustaWestland_Apache#Naval_operations_and_Libya https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-latest-activity/news/2014/july/31/140731-us-apaches-rfa-cardigan-bay
    https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/defence-helicopter/army-apaches-all-at-sea-on-ark-royal/

    T-47

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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  T-47 on Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:59 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    But the military is also considering the purchase of the more sophisticated variant, dubbed Mi-28NM. According to Boginsky, if the contract is approved soon, first deliveries could begin in 2018.
    The NM version made its first flight in October 2016. It is outfitted with a new radar and flight control system as well as improved avionics. The helicopter has a new movable 30-mm gun mount that enables the use of precision weapons, including guided missiles. It also has increased speed, thanks to new composite main rotor blades.
    http://aviationweek.com/defense/russian-combat-helicopters-increase-sophistication?NL=AW-05&Issue=AW-05_20170911_AW-05_658&sfvc4enews=42&cl=article_1&utm_rid=CPEN1000001576407&utm_campaign=11647&utm_medium=email&elq2=6e67d086f0944e12ae2111f7ff3d3aeb
    In time, some of them may be deployed on ships as well, like the Apaches in the RN. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AgustaWestland_Apache#Naval_operations_and_Libya  https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-latest-activity/news/2014/july/31/140731-us-apaches-rfa-cardigan-bay
    https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/defence-helicopter/army-apaches-all-at-sea-on-ark-royal/

    Buddy I am re-writing your article. Don't mind.

    But the military is also considering the purchase of the more sophisticated variant, dubbed Mi-28NM. According to Boginsky, if the contract is approved soon, first deliveries could begin in 2018.
    The NM version made its first flight in October 2016. It is outfitted with a new radar and flight control system as well as improved avionics. The helicopter has a new movable 30-mm gun mount that enables the use of precision weapons, including guided missiles. It also has increased speed, thanks to new composite main rotor blades.

    Arrow http://aviationweek.com/defense/russian-combat-helicopters-increase-sophistication?NL=AW-05&Issue=AW-05_20170911_AW-05_658&sfvc4enews=42&cl=article_1&utm_rid=CPEN1000001576407&utm_campaign=11647&utm_medium=email&elq2=6e67d086f0944e12ae2111f7ff3d3aeb

    In time, some of them may be deployed on ships as well, like the Apaches in the RN.

    Arrow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AgustaWestland_Apache#Naval_operations_and_Libya

    Arrow https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-latest-activity/news/2014/july/31/140731-us-apaches-rfa-cardigan-bay

    Arrow https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/defence-helicopter/army-apaches-all-at-sea-on-ark-royal/

    Now see its 10 times easier to read!
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    JohninMK

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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  JohninMK on Sat Sep 23, 2017 1:04 pm

    Air Recognition‏ @AirRecognition 22h22 hours ago

    .@RusHeliCo exports first Mi-28NE w/ new on-board DAS https://www.airrecognition.com/index.php/archive-world-worldwide-news-air-force-aviation-aerospace-air-military-defence-industry/global-defense-security-news/global-news-2017/september/3749-russian-helicopters-exports-first-mi-28ne-with-new-on-board-das.html



    Russian Helicopters holding has exported the first batch of the Mi-28NE attack helicopters equipped with an on-board defensive aids suite. The newest system is installed to increase combat survivability and is designed to protect the machine from damage by heat-seeking anti-aircraft missiles, the holding’s press service reported.

    Russian Helicopters exports first Mi 28NE with new on board DAS 640 001Two Mi-28NE attack helicopters, the one behind most probably belonging to Algerian Air Force

    In addition, the helicopter carries a modernized set of communication equipment, which provides radio communications with other aircraft and ground control points, as well as intercom telephone communications between the two pilots.

    "The delivery of the Mi-28NE export batch is a significant event for the holding, as these machines set new standards in the world market of attack helicopters. I’m sure that the Mi-28NE will prove to be effective in performing real combat missions, which will undoubtedly increase the interest of potential customers to the helicopter," said Andrei Boginsky, CEO of Russian Helicopters.

    For now, the Mi-28NE attack helicopter export variant has been ordered by Algeria (42) and Iraq (40).


    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DKVK8KYXcAAU_GM.jpg
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    George1

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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  George1 on Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:08 pm

    Russia’s advanced helicopter trainer ready for serial production

    Russia’s cutting-edge Mil Mi-28UB combat training helicopter is ready for serial production

    ROSTOV-ON-DON, October 4. /TASS/. Russia’s cutting-edge Mil Mi-28UB combat training helicopter is ready for serial production in Rostov-on-Don in south Russia, Deputy Defense Minister Yuri Borisov said on Wednesday.

    "The enterprise has mastered serial production and the helicopter is ready for it and a contract for its serial production is already available," the deputy defense minister said after visiting the Rostvertol enterprise, part of Russian Helicopters Group.

    The first eight helicopters the Russian Defense Ministry will get in 2017 are intended to be delivered to military units in Pushkin, Korenovka and Torzhok for crew training, he said.

    The deputy defense minister also viewed the enterprise’s production capacities for the manufacture of Mi-28N Night Hunter combat helicopters and also Mi-26 rotocraft.

    The Mi-28UB is the combat training modification of the Mi-28N Night Hunter attack helicopter. The rotocraft is equipped with a dual control system. While the new helicopter is designed for pilots’ training, it retains all the attack capabilities and can be used to strike facilities and hardware.


    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/969003


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    George1

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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  George1 on Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:09 pm

    The first serial Mi-28UB helicopters for Russia's VKS

    The photo of two Mi-28UB helicopter training helicopters published by the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation from the first batch of helicopters of this modification built for Rostekert JSC (part of the Russian Helicopters JSC) in Rostov-on-Don.



    Recall that in April 2016, the Ministry of Defense of Russia entered into a contract with Helicopters of Russia JSC for the serial delivery of the first 24 Mi-28UB helicopters by the end of 2018. In August 2017, the press service of Russian Helicopters reported that by the end of 2017, the first eight helicopters under this contract should be transferred to the Russian Air Force, and that the first two helicopters have already been built and are being tested.

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2882613.html


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    Firebird

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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  Firebird on Sat Oct 07, 2017 3:58 pm

    How would a state of the art Russian chopper like this fare against a good/very good fighter jet?

    I know we're told that jets are far faster, more powerful etc, with a much greater range.
    But we're also told how important missiles are today. How fully laden could this chopper (or a larger one) be in missiles vs a good jet?

    Choppers could use natural and man made terrain to hide, defend itself or evade attacks.
    But I'd imagine that in wide spaces and at altitude the chopper would be at a considerable disadvantage. However, at lower level... perhaps the chopper could use some clever techniques?

    Has anyone seen and recent reports on this or have any views?
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    Isos

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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  Isos on Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:32 pm

    Firebird wrote:How would a state of the art Russian chopper like this fare against a good/very good fighter jet?

    I know we're told that jets are far faster, more powerful etc, with a much greater range.
    But we're also told how important missiles are today. How fully laden could this chopper (or a larger one) be in missiles vs a good jet?

    Choppers could use natural and man made terrain to hide, defend itself or evade attacks.
    But I'd imagine that in wide spaces and at altitude the chopper would be at a considerable disadvantage. However, at lower level... perhaps the chopper could use some clever techniques?

    Has anyone seen and recent reports on this or have any views?

    0 chances against a fighter. Unless the fighter's pilot is stupid.

    A better question would be comparing a choper and a Su-25 for strike role and vehicle destruction and their survivability on a modern battlefield.
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    George1

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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  George1 on Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:22 am

    The first batch of Mi-28UB serial helicopters is ready for transfer to the Ministry of Defense of Russia

    Helicopters of Russia JSC (part of Rostekh State Corporation) reported on October 19, 2017 about the readiness of the first batch of combat-training helicopters Mi-28UB for the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation. Machines passed the whole complex of factory tests. The first helicopters are planned for transfer to the military department in November 2017.


    One of the combat-training helicopters Mi-28UB (number 01 "white") from the first batch of helicopters of this modification, built for the Russian Civil Aviation Committee at Rostvertol JSC (part of the Helicopters of Russia JSC). Rostov-on-Don, 10/19/2017 (with) Evgeny Baranov / JSC "Helicopters of Russia"


    The main difference between the Mi-28UB is a dual control system that allows to fly a helicopter both from the cockpit of the pilot-commander of the crew and from the cockpit of the pilot-operator. Due to this, it is possible to train military pilots who need a practice of flying on "Night Hunters". In addition, in combat conditions, in the event of an abnormal situation, the control of the car can be taken over by the second crew member.

    The helicopter also has a mock-up simulator, which allows simulating the pilot's failure in flight and improving the learner's training in a crisis situation.

    "We are pleased to announce the readiness of the first batch of Mi-28UB helicopters.Of course, we are constantly working on improving the Mi-28 helicopter taking into account its application in Syria.The appearance of the combat training version opens almost unlimited possibilities in improving the Mi-28N pilots training system. I note that the possibility of training not on a simulator, but on a real combat helicopter, is a great advantage of our military pilots in comparison with colleagues from other countries. In the near future, the transfer of Mi-28UB to representatives of B CS, "- said Andrei Boginsky, the general director of the holding company" Russian Helicopters ".

    The first prototype Mi-28UB was manufactured by Rostvertol. After the completion of a large-scale factory and state testing program, at the end of 2015 the helicopter was put into serial production.

    The Mi-28UB is equipped with a modernized integrated complex of onboard radioelectronic equipment. The use of this complex allows for effective search, detection, detection and defeat of ground and air targets.

    To ensure the necessary ergonomic parameters of crew workplaces, the fuselage structure of the helicopter was changed. The Mi-28UB expanded the cabin, increased the area of ​​armored glazing and improved the view from the operator's workplace. To improve combat survivability, the Mi-28UB installed the newest on-board defense complex.


    On the bmpd side, we recall that in April 2016, the Russian Ministry of Defense entered into a contract with Helicopters of Russia JSC for the serial delivery of the first 24 Mi-28UB helicopters to the Russian military aerospace industry by the end of 2018. Construction of helicopters of the Mi-28 family is carried out at Rostvertol JSC (part of the Helicopters of Russia JSC) in Rostov-on-Don. In August 2017, the press service of Russian Helicopters reported that by the end of 2017, the first Russian military helicopter should be transferred to the first eight Mi-28UB helicopters under this contract, and that the first two helicopters had already been tested at that time.

    At present, cars with on-board numbers "01 white", "06 white", "15 red" and "215 blue" are identified from the first production batch of Mi-28UB helicopters built.





    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2905178.html


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    robognus

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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  robognus on Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:54 pm




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    AlfaT8

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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  AlfaT8 on Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:20 pm

    I was looking up rocket systems in the Apache and found out about the BAE systems APKWS guidance package for the Hydra-70 and wondered whether Russia had an equivalent system and found the Ugroza guidance package for the S-5, S-8 and S-13, but noticed that they all had different sizes and wondered how Ugroza could be compatible, but more importantly i also noticed that compared to the Hydra-70 the Russian systems don't come close to it's range of 8-10km.
    So what's going on here, technical or doctrinal issue??
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:39 pm

    AlfaT8 wrote:I was looking up rocket systems in the Apache and found out about the BAE systems APKWS guidance package for the Hydra-70 and wondered whether Russia had an equivalent system and found the Ugroza guidance package for the S-5, S-8 and S-13, but noticed that they all had different sizes and wondered how Ugroza could be compatible, but more importantly i also noticed that compared to the Hydra-70 the Russian systems don't come close to it's range of 8-10km.
    So what's going on here, technical or doctrinal issue??



    looks like one of reasons is range of missile alone. S-8 KOM according to Rosobronexport is 4000m max (max speed 610m/s) wiki says effective range of Hydra is 8000m (max speed 739 m/s). APLWS was devleoped form 2002 till 2008. Russian seemed to be ready in 1999. Nothing found about any updates.

    http://roe.ru/eng/catalog/aerospace-systems/air-to-air-missile/s-8kom/


    But who knows how is in reality. Only one site with Ugroza info was hobbyists (from OAO SPlav BTW) nothing official so maybe this is no yet approved for RuAF? here S8.KOR range si 8000m as well.

    http://rbase.new-factoria.ru/missile/wobb/ugroza/ugroza.shtml
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    GarryB

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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  GarryB on Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:20 am

    The effective range of a rocket is determined by its ability to land within a distance of the target aimed at....

    The ballistic range is the distance the rocket will land when fired.

    Without guidance such rockets are fired over very short ranges.... we are talking about2-3km at mosr most of the time.

    With guidance then these weapons can be lofted into the air and the guidance ensures they hit what they are being aimed at.

    Most of the time the targets unguided rockets are used to engage precision is not that critical... a group of enemy troops in the open means you are hardly going to aim to hit each person. An even spread of explosive fragmentation rockets gives a good effect.

    The facts are that Western missiles are very expensive so for lessor targets a cheaper lighter guided rocket makes a lot of sense for them.

    The Russian missiles like ATAKA and SHTURM are not so expensive and can be used in much greater numbers, so unguided rockets can be used as unguided rockets.

    Not to say Ugroza is a bad idea, but they actually have a much wider range of unguided rockets to pick from and most of the time they have guided options already.

    The S-25L guided rocket has a warhead of 150kg and a flight range of 8-10km, but they also have S-24 and 122mm and 80mm rockets as well.

    Now that the Mils and Kamovs have become sophisticated night and all weather capable helos and of course the Su-25 has also had improvements, guided rockets would make more sense allowing attacks from greater standoff distances with lofted launches. but their work on computer aided aiming systems suggests they prefer to keep using dumb weapons and using smart aiming instead.


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    Werewolf

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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  Werewolf on Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:32 pm

    AlfaT8 wrote:I was looking up rocket systems in the Apache and found out about the BAE systems APKWS guidance package for the Hydra-70 and wondered whether Russia had an equivalent system and found the Ugroza guidance package for the S-5, S-8 and S-13, but noticed that they all had different sizes and wondered how Ugroza could be compatible, but more importantly i also noticed that compared to the Hydra-70 the Russian systems don't come close to it's range of 8-10km.
    So what's going on here, technical or doctrinal issue??


    It is very simple to why the Hydra's are longer range than the S-8's.

    The rocket fuel in Hydra's burns slow and gives a continues thrust to have high range. "Long arm doctrine" to have capability to shoot against enemies from further away.

    Russian unguided rockets have short range because the rocket fuel and rocket engines are quick burning engines. The idea behind this is to not leave any smoke plumes or trails behind when the rockets land on the enemy. Giving them no indicator from which position the helicopters are coming. In situations when rockets hit enemy site they have enough time to prepare for Anti Aircraft roll with weapons they have.

    That has its pros and cons obviously. The contra is the smoke created is intense for about 20-30m infront of the helicopter and then no smoke at all. Short range but from 2km hardly visible for the enemy even under clear weather, because smoke does not stay for long.

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    robognus

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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  robognus on Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:59 pm




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