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    BTR-80/82 APCs and variants: News

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    George1

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    Re: BTR-80/82 APCs and variants: News

    Post  George1 on Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:52 am

    As informs the Bulletin of Mordovia at the International military technical forum "Army - 2017" for the first time BTR-87 was openly presented. This armored car is considered a radical upgrade of the well-known family of BTR-80 and BTR-82. The most significant difference is the location of the engine-transmission compartment. This armored personnel carrier is located in the front, on the right.
    The driver is in the usual place for himself, the commander is behind him. The combat module is pushed back a little. In the rear part there is an amphibious compartment, for which aft hatches are provided.




    As for the combat module, it is reported that several options are possible. Including uninhabited. All of them are equipped with perfect fire control systems with thermal imaging channels and are armed with a 30-mm cannon with a twin machine gun. The installation of anti-tank complexes "Cornet", as well as containers with flamethrowers "Shmel" is foreseen.



    BTR-87 has reinforced armor and mine protection. The engine of increased power will achieve a maximum speed of 90 km/h.
    This machine is not created as an alternative to VPK-7829 "Boomerang". The fact is that, inside the country and abroad, there is always a need for cheaper armored personnel carriers, on which units and aggregates of equipment well mastered in the troops are widely used.



    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2800919.html


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    T-47

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    Re: BTR-80/82 APCs and variants: News

    Post  T-47 on Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:50 pm

    Personally rather than buying this I'd just put the new turret into BTR-80/82A. Yeah its cheap but still I had to buy a new APC alongside Bumerang.
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    GarryB

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    Re: BTR-80/82 APCs and variants: News

    Post  GarryB on Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:56 am

    Having rear entry doors would be a serious improvement for the BTR-80 family... and would not increase costs that much.

    For exports it would improve performance without costing too much or needing too many changes.


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    flamming_python

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    Re: BTR-80/82 APCs and variants: News

    Post  flamming_python on Thu Aug 24, 2017 3:30 pm

    With the rear-doors and seemingly added mine-protection - it's a cheap Bumerang. And worth serious consideration IMO.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: BTR-80/82 APCs and variants: News

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Aug 24, 2017 4:36 pm

    flamming_python wrote:With the rear-doors and seemingly added mine-protection - it's a cheap Bumerang. And worth serious consideration IMO.

    This late in the game not so much.

    Switching to Boomerang is only reasonable option.
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    medo

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    Re: BTR-80/82 APCs and variants: News

    Post  medo on Thu Aug 24, 2017 7:33 pm

    BTR-87 would be excellent for NAF and they could give production to DNR, where they could produce the body, while other components could be delivered from Russia.
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    Benya

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    Re: BTR-80/82 APCs and variants: News

    Post  Benya on Fri Aug 25, 2017 10:05 am

    T-47 wrote:Personally rather than buying this I'd just put the new turret into BTR-80/82A. Yeah its cheap but still I had to buy a new APC alongside Bumerang.

    They won't really buy this for sure, but after Boomerang enters service in reasonable numbers, more and more BTR-80s/82s will go to reserve, and in the long run, this means a large pool of vehicles to be upgraded to BTR-87s, and with Boomerangs in active service and BTR-87s in reserve, wheeled motor rifle troops will be a serious force to be reckoned with.
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    flamming_python

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    Re: BTR-80/82 APCs and variants: News

    Post  flamming_python on Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:58 pm

    Benya wrote:
    T-47 wrote:Personally rather than buying this I'd just put the new turret into BTR-80/82A. Yeah its cheap but still I had to buy a new APC alongside Bumerang.

    They won't really buy this for sure, but after Boomerang enters service in reasonable numbers, more and more BTR-80s/82s will go to reserve, and in the long run, this means a large pool of vehicles to be upgraded to BTR-87s, and with Boomerangs in active service and BTR-87s in reserve, wheeled motor rifle troops will be a serious force to be reckoned with.

    Yeah pretty much my thoughts.

    This modernization or a later version of it could be a viable one for BTR-80s/BTR-80As/BTR-82s in reserve or in some non-priority regions, or in service with the National Guard.
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    GarryB

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    Re: BTR-80/82 APCs and variants: News

    Post  GarryB on Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:25 am

    It improves a vehicle design and makes something that was adequate even better.

    Another step up above the BTR-82.

    It wont replace Boomerang for the Russians, because the whole idea of the Boomerang family is logistics tail so having a different vehicle in the force makes little sense because it ruins the idea of having one engine and one set of spares needed for all vehicles in the force.

    For export it removes one problem of the BTR series of vehicles in terms of entry and exit.


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    PapaDragon

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    Re: BTR-80/82 APCs and variants: News

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Aug 26, 2017 1:53 pm

    .
    Producing new ones makes no sense but upgrading existing ones is a different story.

    Still there is question of how much hull cutting is involved in that upgrade. Other than switching engine position there also seems to be increased interior space and that means lifting vehicle roof a bit.

    Well known problem with Soviet era vehicles is that they are too small for today's average sized person.

    Weapon station OTOH seems very good and they should implement it on 82s first chance they get. Seems simple enough.
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    franco

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    Re: BTR-80/82 APCs and variants: News

    Post  franco on Sat Aug 26, 2017 1:59 pm

    Can present BTR-80/82 be converted to a BTR-87? Or is it a new build only?

    T-47

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    Re: BTR-80/82 APCs and variants: News

    Post  T-47 on Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:04 pm

    I don't think it can be converted like BTR-87. Because the turret position is different. Keeping the turret position same the other features might be included.
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    Benya

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    Re: BTR-80/82 APCs and variants: News

    Post  Benya on Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:51 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:Still there is question of how much hull cutting is involved in that upgrade. Other than switching engine position there also seems to be increased interior space and that means lifting vehicle roof a bit.

    Not much IMO. They just need to lift up the superstructure a bit by exchanging the side armor plates above the chassis with larger ones.

    Weapon station OTOH seems very good and they should implement it on 82s first chance they get. Seems simple enough.

    Why? The current 30mm autocannon turret for BTR-80As/BTR-82As is good as it is. I mean, "why do you need 4 Kornets on all BTRs?" What I'm trying to say is that wheeled APCs/IFVs won't face that much heavy armor, as they aren't intended to engage them first in combat.

    T-47 wrote:I don't think it can be converted like BTR-87. Because the turret position is different. Keeping the turret position same the other features might be included.

    Nope. Engineers of VPK kept in mind the fact that the side doors and the cramped troop compartment are serious drawbacks of the BTR series. So at last, they came up with the Boomerang and the BTR-87, and I think that the latter was designed from the very beginning as an upgrade of the BTR-80/82, and not as a brand new vehicle.

    T-47

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    Re: BTR-80/82 APCs and variants: News

    Post  T-47 on Sun Aug 27, 2017 12:12 pm

    Benya wrote:
    Nope. Engineers of VPK kept in mind the fact that the side doors and the cramped troop compartment are serious drawbacks of the BTR series. So at last, they came up with the Boomerang and the BTR-87, and I think that the latter was designed from the very beginning as an upgrade of the BTR-80/82, and not as a brand new vehicle.

    Yes but the amount of hull cutting and replacing (and other stuffs) indicates the work is not simple. My opinion this is an export stunt like new MiG-35. I think for russia they should mind on getting Bumerang into serial production first. Then if money allows, they can think this. Till then current BTRs are okay.
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    GarryB

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    Re: BTR-80/82 APCs and variants: News

    Post  GarryB on Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:07 am

    It will be some time before the Boomerang and Kurganets and Armata can be exported so upgraded versions of older vehicles make sense... both for export and to upgrade in service models.

    A new design that brings new features and new capabilities means producing old models is a bit of a waste of time.


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    d_taddei2

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    Re: BTR-80/82 APCs and variants: News

    Post  d_taddei2 on Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:22 pm

    I know that the Btr82 gun isn't stabilised but was the 57mm gun prototype?

    I always felt that the Btr60/70/80 platforms could have been fitted with more different types of weapons than they actually fielded. The 120mm mortar system was a good decision. But the potential is huge and it seems Cuba was the only country to fully expand on weapons mainly through necessity and using what they had in stock. Cuba fitting weapons such as zu -23-2, single and double 37mm 61-K, double 57mm, and even the turret from a T-55. So simply using older equipment can give you a different capability and it's a good way to use up older stock.

    The list below is just short list of possibilities:

    T-34-85 turret
    PT -76 turret
    Bmp -1 turret
    Bmp -3 turret
    Zsu 23-4 turret (Air and ground support role)
    2S1 turret
    BM-14 140mm (single or double pack)
    Zpu -2
    Zis-3 76mm artillery
    D-44 85mm artillery
    Various 122mm artillery pieces
    130mm M-46 (possibly )
    Zis-2 57mm
    D-48 85mm anti tank
    BS-3 100mm anti tank
    T-12 100mm anti tank
    82mm automatic mortar 2B9 vaselik (can also use anti armour rounds )
    160mm mortar (possibly if recoil dampening system introduced )
    Strelets anti air system
    Sonsa -R anti air system
    Pantsir (possibly )
    Tungkuska (possibly )
    Sa-8
    Sa-13
    Sa-9
    Zu-23-2M1/ZOM1/ZOM1-SM anti air system
    Zsu 23-4M4/M5 anti air system
    And the following ATGW systems AT-3, AT-4,
    AT-5, AT-6, AT-7, AT-13, AT-14. AT-15.

    and I know that there's no doubt many other options.

    Is there any options you would suggest?


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    GarryB

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    Re: BTR-80/82 APCs and variants: News

    Post  GarryB on Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:32 am

    According to this:

    http://roe.ru/eng/catalog/land-forces/armored-combat-vehicles/btr-82a/

    The guns are stabilised.... as it mentions in this paragraph:

    The BTR-82A is the result of upgrading the BTR-80A APC in order to improve its main performance and service characteristics through the use of a higher-capacity power plant, an armament stabilizer, a combined (day/night) sight, as well as improvements to transmission and running gear units.

    I would suggest a modern stabilised 30mm cannon is perfectly suited to most uses... a lower velocity weapon with a heavier HE projectile would be the ideal compliment as used in the BMP-3 turret combo.

    So a 100mm rifled gun or 120mm gun/mortar, though a 30/40/57mm grenade launcher, 57mm gun or 82mm mortar would be good alternatives.


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    d_taddei2

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    Re: BTR-80/82 APCs and variants: News

    Post  d_taddei2 on Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:47 am

    GarryB wrote:According to this:

    http://roe.ru/eng/catalog/land-forces/armored-combat-vehicles/btr-82a/

    The guns are stabilised.... as it mentions in this paragraph:

    The BTR-82A is the result of upgrading the BTR-80A APC in order to improve its main performance and service characteristics through the use of a higher-capacity power plant, an armament stabilizer, a combined (day/night) sight, as well as improvements to transmission and running gear units.

    I would suggest a modern stabilised 30mm cannon is perfectly suited to most uses... a lower velocity weapon with a heavier HE projectile would be the ideal compliment as used in the BMP-3 turret combo.

    So a 100mm rifled gun or 120mm gun/mortar, though a 30/40/57mm grenade launcher, 57mm gun or 82mm mortar would be good alternatives.

    sorry I read somewhere stating it wasn't to which when I read it I was surprised hence the question.

    Of course 30mm is sufficient but I am also addressing the issue if you have any of these weapons and Btr 60/70/80 you can have yourself a multitude of options and capabilities and it uses up old stock. In most cases just making it self propelled with some armour and good mobility on land and water suddenly makes the weapon that more useful
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    Isos

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    Re: BTR-80/82 APCs and variants: News

    Post  Isos on Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:16 am

    GarryB wrote:According to this:

    http://roe.ru/eng/catalog/land-forces/armored-combat-vehicles/btr-82a/

    The guns are stabilised.... as it mentions in this paragraph:

    The BTR-82A is the result of upgrading the BTR-80A APC in order to improve its main performance and service characteristics through the use of a higher-capacity power plant, an armament stabilizer, a combined (day/night) sight, as well as improvements to transmission and running gear units.

    I would suggest a modern stabilised 30mm cannon is perfectly suited to most uses... a lower velocity weapon with a heavier HE projectile would be the ideal compliment as used in the BMP-3 turret combo.

    So a 100mm rifled gun or 120mm gun/mortar, though a 30/40/57mm grenade launcher, 57mm gun or 82mm mortar would be good alternatives.

    Is the 100mm gun of bmp3 able to fire apfsds rounds at high velocity ? It looks to be a small gun for HE and HEAT with a small range. They could use a longer version to make it able to destroy other APC with ctive defences from long distances with APFSDST.
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    0nillie0

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    Re: BTR-80/82 APCs and variants: News

    Post  0nillie0 on Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:47 pm

    Isos wrote:
    GarryB wrote:According to this:

    http://roe.ru/eng/catalog/land-forces/armored-combat-vehicles/btr-82a/

    The guns are stabilised.... as it mentions in this paragraph:

    The BTR-82A is the result of upgrading the BTR-80A APC in order to improve its main performance and service characteristics through the use of a higher-capacity power plant, an armament stabilizer, a combined (day/night) sight, as well as improvements to transmission and running gear units.

    I would suggest a modern stabilised 30mm cannon is perfectly suited to most uses... a lower velocity weapon with a heavier HE projectile would be the ideal compliment as used in the BMP-3 turret combo.

    So a 100mm rifled gun or 120mm gun/mortar, though a 30/40/57mm grenade launcher, 57mm gun or 82mm mortar would be good alternatives.

    Is the 100mm gun of bmp3 able to fire apfsds rounds at high velocity ? It looks to be a small gun for HE and HEAT with a small range. They could use a longer version to make it able to destroy other APC with ctive defences from long distances with APFSDST.

    It has 3UBK10M3 laser guided round  which can obliterate any APC and most IFV's at range of 5500 meter. It also has new HEF round reaching out to 7km. Engaging targets directly beyond that range, active protection or not, is simply not likely to be possible in most combat situations. There will be other vehicles that would deal with such threats ? I could be wrong but feel free to point out a plausible scenario.

    There are APFSDS rounds available for the 100mm MT-12 tank gun but these projectiles are smaller than the 2A70 ammo as far as i know, so i doubt they are compatible.  

    I think a more realistic approach for defeating APC's with advanced active protection would be trough electronic warfare / jamming of the system, or to designate artillery fire on such targets.
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    GarryB

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    Re: BTR-80/82 APCs and variants: News

    Post  GarryB on Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:04 am

    The 100mm rifled gun on the BMP-3 is a medium pressure gun optimised for firing HE shells.

    Its other standard round is a guided missile..

    The requirements of a powerful HE delivering gun are totally different from that of a tank gun which needs high velocity.

    The BTR chassis as well as the BMP chassis and MTLB chassis are good platforms for a variety of vehicles but at the end of the day keeping old obsolete calibres in service is not a good thing for Russia.

    Often a newer platform makes more sense and can be upgraded to a higher level with minimum cost than an older vehicle.

    Gifting the older stuff to allies that can use them like Iraq and Syria and Afghanistan and Yemen and Libya Helps them and reduces the diversity of systems and ammo for the Russian military.


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    Isos

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    Re: BTR-80/82 APCs and variants: News

    Post  Isos on Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:40 am

    GarryB wrote:The 100mm rifled gun on the BMP-3 is a medium pressure gun optimised for firing HE shells.

    Its other standard round is a guided missile..

    The requirements of a powerful HE delivering gun are totally different from that of a tank gun which needs high velocity.

    The BTR chassis as well as the BMP chassis and MTLB chassis are good platforms for a variety of vehicles but at the end of the day keeping old obsolete calibres in service is not a good thing for Russia.

    Often a newer platform makes more sense and can be upgraded to a higher level with minimum cost than an older vehicle.

    Gifting the older stuff to allies that can use them like Iraq and Syria and Afghanistan and Yemen and Libya Helps them and reduces the diversity of systems and ammo for the Russian military.

    Is the bmp 3 gun enough against other nato ifv and apc ??

    Russian can't give free stuff to its main buyers ... who will buy them arms if those countries get fre stuf.
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    GarryB

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    Re: BTR-80/82 APCs and variants: News

    Post  GarryB on Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:03 am

    The BMP-3s 100mm rifled gun can fire guided missiles able to penetrate most light armoured vehicles.

    Its HE shells would be devastating against a range of soft targets on the battlefield including troops in the open, or sniper or MG positions, or ATGM teams and their weapons.


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