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    Common Lies, Russophobia, Nonsense on Russia:

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    As Sa'iqa
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    Re: Common Lies, Russophobia, Nonsense on Russia:

    Post  As Sa'iqa on Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:40 pm

    That is an exaggeration. 1/3 of the people only doing something was not the norm. Some factories in certain areas were in fact under-employed. It was common to have a few extra un-needed people at the workplace, but let us not exagerate.
    That example was from my country, Poland and such examples were common. There were sayng circulating about it.

    he Soviets would have had many more Nobel prize winners if more of their scientists defected to the USA.
    Honestly, the laughable Nobel Prize system is so politicized. It has no credibility and I do not respect it.
    Nobel Prizes in peace or economy do tend to be politicized... but in chemistry or physics? Or physiology of medicine?

    even the best scientist won't do much if they don't have technology. Scientists nned better and beter equipment, more advanced accelerators, microscopes etc. The Soviet Union was unable to keep the pace of technological growth comparable to USA - because of its centrally planned economy.

    I neglected to mention that soviet science had its dark side too - for some time genetics, evolution and big bang theory were banned due to being incompatible with the principles of dialectic materialism - instead, other pseudo-scientific theories were taught.


    Last edited by As Sa'iqa on Mon Oct 28, 2013 6:23 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: Common Lies, Russophobia, Nonsense on Russia:

    Post  Regular on Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:57 pm

    Europe did have great values. Russia is part of European heritage too. But what is left of Europe is pitiful creature where all the countries are bunched together to form faceless union with no national identity. Not to mention absurd political correctness and enforced ideology. They are propagating love for EU and its conformist values. Smoothest occupation ever.
    USA already took over in all aspects - from physics to philosophy. Culture wise NYC leaves European cities behind.

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    Re: Common Lies, Russophobia, Nonsense on Russia:

    Post  Werewolf on Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:32 pm

    As Sa'iqa wrote:@Werewolf, flamming_python:
    The claim that USSR had zero unemployment and the best education system is extremely shaky. Of course officially everyone was employed somewhere but that was the result of structural overemployment, not of some miraculous properties of centrally planned economy. State controlled enterprises hired too many people, there were factories in which only 1/3 people actually had something to do, the rest did nothing and got their wages.

    Regarding Soviet education - USSR had one of the best scientific education in the world, especially in the area of theoretical mathematics, physics, engineering etc. But it was USA that built more and better cars, roads, trains, aircraft, electronics, and later (beginning from early 80s) better tanks. 50% of all Nobel Prize winners were either Americans or Europeans working in USA.  
    Education has absolutley nothing to do with who can built a car...if people are smart enough to invent satellites, to create the biggest and most powerful lifting planes,helicopters or ecranoplanes than a dumb car is no problem, the Soviet Union did not give much about civil market that is all, so your argument is invalid.

    And i aggree completley with Achmedfire, the Nobel Prize is a big joke and a political one, how many terrorists and warmongers recieved the Peace Nobel Prize, how many times Chinese "communists" and Soviet "communists" were denied to get a prize for their hard work.

    Fact remains, Soviet Union had the highest education system in the world, period.

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    Re: Common Lies, Russophobia, Nonsense on Russia:

    Post  Regular on Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:21 pm

    So what about medicine, physics, chemistry ? Nobels prize is crap when it comes tu literature, politics and other crap, but when it comes to before mentioned sciences it is spot on. Russian scientists are not inferior to western ones by any means, not trying to be an arse. Majority of Russian universities and science villages are not on same level as they were before.

    Werewolf
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    Re: Common Lies, Russophobia, Nonsense on Russia:

    Post  Werewolf on Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:40 pm

    Regular wrote:So what about medicine, physics, chemistry ? Nobels prize is crap when it comes tu literature, politics and other crap, but when it comes to before mentioned sciences it is spot on. Russian scientists are not inferior to western ones by any means, not trying to be an arse. Majority of Russian universities and science villages are not on same level as they were before.
    Nobel Prize is not the Olympics, Nobel Prize is just a big joke of committe which is controlled by the WEST and has denied many brilliant genius works from China and Soviet/Russian scientists.

    And the very first Nobel prize to a chinese was of course a guy who critizes China of course since chinese never did anything anywhere in any scientific field.

    Nobel Prize or Peace Nobel Prize it has no value whatsoever. As long it is a political tool is worthless.

    I've no respect for such horseshit that are controlled by people who have only political interests not real actual knowledge nor interests of scientific development.
    The Nobel prize committe are a bunch of corrupt unmoral twats that getting paid to give or deny the Nobel prize, there is nothing Nobel about it.

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    Re: Common Lies, Russophobia, Nonsense on Russia:

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:47 am

    It is obvious contrived when Obama received it. Total joke.

    There is far too much propaganda about anything with Russia. And of recent, it has to do with former soviet countries as well, riding on the whole "historic" bandwagon. Yet no one points out US' history issues like General Pinochet and Pol Pot, or the likes. When someone does, the response is "that was then, this is now". Double standards.

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    Re: Common Lies, Russophobia, Nonsense on Russia:

    Post  Regular on Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:02 am

    Werewolf wrote:
    Regular wrote:So what about medicine, physics, chemistry ? Nobels prize is crap when it comes tu literature, politics and other crap, but when it comes to before mentioned sciences it is spot on. Russian scientists are not inferior to western ones by any means, not trying to be an arse. Majority of Russian universities and science villages are not on same level as they were before.
    Nobel Prize is not the Olympics, Nobel Prize is just a big joke of committe which is controlled by the WEST and has denied many brilliant genius works from China and Soviet/Russian scientists.

    And the very first Nobel prize to a chinese was of course a guy who critizes China of course since chinese never did anything anywhere in any scientific field.

    Nobel Prize or Peace Nobel Prize it has no value whatsoever. As long it is a political tool is worthless.

    I've no respect for such horseshit that are controlled by people who have only political interests not real actual knowledge nor interests of scientific development.
    The Nobel prize committe are a bunch of corrupt unmoral twats that getting paid to give or deny the Nobel prize, there is nothing Nobel about it.
    What works were denied by Russian and Chinese scientists may I ask?

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    Re: Common Lies, Russophobia, Nonsense on Russia:

    Post  TheArmenian on Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:34 am

    As Sa'iqa wrote:
    Nobel Prizes in peace or economy do tend to be politicized... but in chemistry or physics? Or physiology of medicine?

    even the best scientist won't do much if they don't have technology. Scientists nned better and beter equipment, more advanced accelerators, microscopes etc. The Soviet Union was unable to keep the pace of technological growth comparable to USA - because of its centrally planned economy.

    I neglected to mention that soviet science had its dark side too - for some time genetics, evolution and big bang theory were banned due to being incompatible with the principles of dialectic materialism - instead, other pseudo-scientific theories were taught.
    Everything associated with Nobel Prize is politicized, including physics, chemistry and medicine.
    The Soviets put the first satellite in orbit, the first man in space, the first to do laser eye surgery, the first mass users of titanium in various fields, they put new elements on the (chemistry) periodic table etc. etc.
    Their scientists were not even nominated for the various Nobel prizes. But the likes of Sakharov who either defected or spoke against the system were "gladly" awarded the Nobel prize.
    Enough said.

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    Re: Common Lies, Russophobia, Nonsense on Russia:

    Post  GarryB on Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:33 am

    The periodic table is actually the Mendeleev table... what separated it from previous tables that listed the elements is its structure which not only grouped together the various elements in a structure, but because of its logic allowed unknown elements to be predicted and their characteristics to be determined before they were even known.

    BTW... for a peace prize listing that does not include Ghandi????

    One would ask how Soviet Scientists managed to keep up and maintain parity with the west if all the Nobel prize winners were in the US... did they just copy everything the west did?

    Look at the field of space... the US had Robert H Goddard... the Soviets had Konstantin Tsiolkovsky...


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    Re: Common Lies, Russophobia, Nonsense on Russia:

    Post  Regular on Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:27 am

    No wonder Nobel wasn't given to Soviet scientists because of Cold War. It wouldn't work good for propaganda.
    Today there is no such thing. Russians are no strangers in Nobel ceremony. But fact remains that brain drain was massive in 20 years. It's not all doom and gloom when You actually speak with people from science village like Pushchino. There is project called "to revive science". A number of Russian science people who work in west or moved to business in Russia come to attend ZPSh orchestred by M.Roitberg and more important meetings . They are not getting paid for that, but there are still people who do care. Russian science today hangs on fanatics who put greater good above money and even themselves.

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    Re: Common Lies, Russophobia, Nonsense on Russia:

    Post  GarryB on Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:00 am

    Everything in the west seems to be money driven... wasn't there a Russian mathematician who solved an incredibly difficult equation that has been plaguing western experts for a very long period... there was a substantial prize offered for anyone to solve it, but the Russian who solved the problem refused the prize.

    Read about it here:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/24/grigori-perelman-reclusiv_n_511938.html

    And note the comments below... I just read the first page but most seem fixated that he refuses money for what he does... which is of course understandable... because maths has always been about the money right?


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    Re: Common Lies, Russophobia, Nonsense on Russia:

    Post  TR1 on Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:12 am

    I don't really see that as Russian vs West, the guy is just an eccentric (but genius) hermit, you get those types in any country.

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    Re: Common Lies, Russophobia, Nonsense on Russia:

    Post  flamming_python on Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:02 pm

    As Sa'iqa wrote:@Werewolf, flamming_python:
    The claim that USSR had zero unemployment and the best education system is extremely shaky. Of course officially everyone was employed somewhere but that was the result of structural overemployment, not of some miraculous properties of centrally planned economy. State controlled enterprises hired too many people, there were factories in which only 1/3 people actually had something to do, the rest did nothing and got their wages.
    I don't disagree; many methods were used to fool or subvert statistics.
    For example I remember an interview with an Ossetian former communist official; about how they used to bring their unemployment rates way down by simply taking 2 people for a job in a factory when in fact only one was needed.

    But as for education; the statements are quite close to the truth.
    In the 70s every 3rd scientist in the world lived in the USSR.

    Regarding Soviet education - USSR had one of the best scientific education in the world, especially in the area of theoretical mathematics, physics, engineering etc. But it was USA that built more and better cars, roads, trains, aircraft, electronics, and later (beginning from early 80s) better tanks. 50% of all Nobel Prize winners were either Americans or Europeans working in USA.  
    There were 2 classes of production in the USSR; military/industrial, and civilian/consumer. Naturally the former was focussed on to the outright neglect of the later.

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    Re: Common Lies, Russophobia, Nonsense on Russia:

    Post  Werewolf on Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:40 pm

    No wonder Nobel wasn't given to Soviet scientists because of Cold War. It wouldn't work good for propaganda. Today there is no such thing. wrote:
    What a utterly stupid nonsense that is!

    It is today even more hardcore propaganda tool than ever.

    Please give me a proper explanation why exactly the Peace Nobel Prize was given to Obomba and the entire EU while they had illegal wars RUNNING?

    Why till this day only one Chinese was even offered to get, Again, PEACE Nobel Prize for beeing critical towards his government?

    The Nobel Prize is just a worthless prize used as political propaganda tool.

    You can just follow all this shit Peace Nobel Prize fArses and watch one after another westerner warmongers will recieve it.

    Kissinger or Brzeziński who has even recieved awards for his struggles for human rights.... i laughed so hard i had muscle ache the very next day.
    Why so many warmonger and constant Anti-russian/Anti-soviet scum that have made decisions with the aim to kill millions of people to establish an empire.

    There is nothing Nobel about it!

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    Re: Common Lies, Russophobia, Nonsense on Russia:

    Post  Regular on Tue Oct 29, 2013 7:07 pm

    You didn't answer me about recent scientists who where turned down by Nobel prize. Obama and other questionable characters are irrelevant when we are talking about sciences. So Higgs and Englert were finally awarded because of what then?
    You have to be in very deep denial not to admit that major science projects are happening in the West. Compare science megaprojects in USA alone and what does Russia have? A small collider for people who ar not lucky to get researcers mandate to work in CERN?
    Tell me top 5 Russian scientists (who live in Russia) who are on world standard but are ignored? Not talkig about theorists, Penrose and Hawkins are left without the prize no matter how they were busting their balls.

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    Re: Common Lies, Russophobia, Nonsense on Russia:

    Post  Regular on Tue Oct 29, 2013 7:33 pm

    Oh Yeah, just remembered that we were talking about Soviet union. Scientists were actually working in secrecy and most of their theoretical and some practical work didn't see light before USSR collapsed. I doubt that KGB was keen letting scientists to international conventions where they could be on spotlight. You have to keep this in mind too

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    Re: Common Lies, Russophobia, Nonsense on Russia:

    Post  Werewolf on Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:42 pm

    Regular wrote:Oh Yeah, just remembered that we were talking about Soviet union. Scientists were actually working in secrecy and most of their theoretical and some practical work didn't see light before USSR collapsed. I doubt that KGB was keen letting scientists to international conventions where they could be on spotlight. You have to keep this in mind too
    The only denial here is your ignorance and somehow living in the west indoctrinated myth that only the West brings advances and developments. It is a fact that Nobel Prize regardless of War or "Science" often just ignores work as long it suites their purpose.

    You have not even a simple idea how advanced scientific researches and with empiric results have always been.

    And you can argue as much as you want scientific research is mostly backed due the fact for use of military purpose, even the ridiculous M&M's were a military invention that soldiers don't get sticky fingers when eating chocolate, so your attempt that would follow "Where russians do anything in civilian sector?" is smoked before you could ask.

    Mendeleyev's work even that it is revolutionary wasn't awarded with the Nobel Prize through the decision of the stupid committee, so tell me is there any reason for him not getting a prize but still is till this day one of those scientists that is known world wide.

    Russian literature like from Tolstoy wasn't awarded due the fact he is a russian.
    Not a single chinese was granded any Nobel Prize in any catagory, yes this Nobel prize are just a stupid award that is politically driven, opinions of nationalism or antipathy towards countries.

    Deny it as much as you want but that is the case.

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    Re: Common Lies, Russophobia, Nonsense on Russia:

    Post  collegeboy16 on Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:04 am

    they should establish kalashnikov prize... lol! 

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    Re: Common Lies, Russophobia, Nonsense on Russia:

    Post  GarryB on Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:14 am

    I don't really see that as Russian vs West, the guy is just an eccentric (but genius) hermit, you get those types in any country.
    My point is that if he was British or French or American he would have won the Nobel prize for mathematics for solving a very well known (in math circles) problem that has remained unsolved for a hundred years even in the age of computers.

    Tell me top 5 Russian scientists (who live in Russia) who are on world standard but are ignored? Not talkig about theorists, Penrose and Hawkins are left without the prize no matter how they were busting their balls.
    That guy that discovered carbon nanotubes was Russian.


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    Re: Common Lies, Russophobia, Nonsense on Russia:

    Post  As Sa'iqa on Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:51 am

    There is no Nobel prize in math. It's equivalent is Fields Medal.

    And indeed, Perelman was awarded this prize in 2006.

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    Re: Common Lies, Russophobia, Nonsense on Russia:

    Post  Regular on Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:30 am

    Oktoberfest. There is no need to go full gestapo on me.
    I wasn't talking about empirical research and still You came to conclusion that I have no idea ho it's done.
    Well that well indoctrinated myth as You call it is pretty much alive in Russia as well where on science conventions they discuss projects in the west as main topics and always highlighten lack of funds and lack of interest of young people to study sciences like physics. My family member attends conventions in Russia yearly and when I was studying I attended there too, not much is changed after 10 years. Quality of education didn't go up after SU collapsed. Money wise it's not that great even today.
    I think it's you that still live in the past world.
    I asked You to tell me 5 living Russian scientists who are ignored by the west.
    Tell me what are scince megaprojects in Russia?
    You were talking about Mendeleev, and I can talk about Poincare. You know how many westerns were refused for Nobel prize? Even today it's controversial and unfair. People are robbed of their work (Thompset and his colleague comes to mind) and I'm not talking about politics or literature.
    But enough of Nobel prize. It actually has nothing to do with West advancement in science anyway. I would even argue thst their input is counterproductive.
    You mentioned non sticky chocolate in military? So what other worth mentioning things you could name for "civilian sector?" Non sticky chewing gum? Proper examples please.

    I don't have to deny nothing. Do I have You prove You I'm right or it's You? You were the one who bragges about me not knowing empirical research, then spend 5 minutes and prove me that my opinion is not default.

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    Re: Common Lies, Russophobia, Nonsense on Russia:

    Post  Regular on Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:36 am

    Carbon nanotubes were discovered by Russians in late 50ies and "rediscovered" again by Russian and his colleague from Japan (? don't have time to google) recently.
    Western scientist had no access to these findings so I wouldn't say it was ignored. I was reading article about it before on science mag. Interesting stuff

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    Re: Common Lies, Russophobia, Nonsense on Russia:

    Post  flamming_python on Sat Nov 16, 2013 8:21 pm

    Relic is taking this BS to a new level and I'm satisfied that the Russian internet community is finally organising to fight back against such outrageous mis-portrayals of our history. It's happening in movies, games, and its just getting worse and worse and will continue to do so until Russians show that they won't stand for it.

    And TR1 about the hookers; no-one's going to murder them GTA style in real-life, and if they did then they already have issues.
    But millions of people play this game and really are indoctrinated and led to believe that this is how the war was on the Eastern Front.

    Goebbels was a master of propaganda in his own time. Among the observations he made of social psychology - is that if you repeat something enough times to the masses; they'll believe it. And indeed; people in the West now really do believe that this is how the war was won in Russia, and increasingly the opinion is that the Soviets were as bad as the Nazis.

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    Re: Common Lies, Russophobia, Nonsense on Russia:

    Post  Vlad007 on Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:15 pm


    TR1
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    Re: Common Lies, Russophobia, Nonsense on Russia:

    Post  TR1 on Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:43 pm

    Vlad007 wrote:

    So how many people have been killed by Russian forces again?

    How many by Ukrainians themselves Wink?

    Also your photoshop sucks ass. You even trying brah?

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