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    Common Lies, Russophobia, Nonsense on Russia:

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    victor1985

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    Re: Common Lies, Russophobia, Nonsense on Russia:

    Post  victor1985 on Thu Aug 20, 2015 2:23 pm

    this is my question too. and i get the conclusion that people are a egoist race. selfish egoists and narcisists and they will not give up until they have all under control. they will not stop. they will try to compel russia all the way till will have western control of russia

    BTRfan

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    Re: Common Lies, Russophobia, Nonsense on Russia:

    Post  BTRfan on Thu Aug 20, 2015 9:13 pm

    victor1985 wrote:this is my question too. and i get the conclusion that people are a egoist race. selfish egoists and narcisists and they will not give up until they have all under control. they will not stop. they will try to compel russia all the way till will have western control of russia

    I understand the formation of NATO, the formation of the Warsaw Pact, etc, but as tensions faded and the Soviets let the Warsaw Pact dissolve, at some point it had to become clear, even painfully obvious, to the world, that the continuation of NATO was not an accident, nor a mistake, but rather a calculated move to assure continued American hegemonic domination over much of the world.

    victor1985

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    Re: Common Lies, Russophobia, Nonsense on Russia:

    Post  victor1985 on Fri Aug 21, 2015 7:42 am

    the best argument on what you have said is that that there is no serious threat to western countryes. this is the part where the terrorism came. it was something invented by west just for have a argument to sustain NATO. now i dont say that there arent some threats to western countryes especially in arab zone but here come the sustain of israel into place. israel has something against arab zone and want full control of zone. and united states profited from this oportunity of israel as being a state argument to sustain implication in arab zone.
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    kvs

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    Russia was subsidizing most of the USSR during the 1980s

    Post  kvs on Fri Aug 21, 2015 11:49 pm

    http://www.kp.ru/daily/26422/3295723/



    yellow: production per capita
    green: consumption per capita

    It is popular in Ukraine, the Baltics and other ex-USSR states that drank the western propaganda koolaid
    to believe they were subsidizing Russia.  As of 1990 only Russia and Belorus were net producers.   The
    Baltics are egregious in terms of being subsidized.   This makes their BS about Russian "exploitation" even
    more galling.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Common Lies, Russophobia, Nonsense on Russia:

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Aug 21, 2015 11:54 pm


    Funny thing is, this is old news for everyone except former USSR sans-Russia...

    Nikander

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    Oswald Spengler on Russia

    Post  Nikander on Sat Aug 22, 2015 5:15 pm

    "Up to now I have refrained from mentioning Russia —intentionally, for with Russia it is not a question of different peoples but of different worlds. The Russians are by no means a people like the Germans and the English. Like the Germanic tribes of the Carolingian age they contain within themselves the potentialities of many future peoples. "Russianism" is the promise of a future culture as the evening shadows grows longer and longer over the Western world. The distinctions between Russian and Western spirit cannot be drawn too sharply. As deep a cleavage as there is between the spirit, religion, politics, and economics of England, Germany, America, and France, when compared with Russia these nations suddenly appear as a unified world. It is easy to be deceived by some inhabitants of Russia who reflect strong Western influence. The true Russian is just as inwardly alien to us as a Roman in the Age of Kings or a Chinese long before Confucius would be if they were suddenly to appear among us. The Russians have been aware of this every time they have drawn a line of demarcation between "Mother Russia" and "Europe."

    For us, the primitive soul of Russia is an inscrutable something that lies behind dirt, music, vodka, meekness, and a strange melancholy. We naturally form our judgments subjectively, i.e., as the late, urban, and intellectually mature members of a wholly different culture. What we "see" in Russia is therefore not a soul just now awakening, which even Dostoyevsky was helpless to describe, but our own mental picture of it, which is formed by our superficial image of Russian life and Russian history and is further falsified by the use of such very "European" words as will, reason, and Gemut. Yet perhaps some of us are able to convey a virtually indescribable impression of that country that will leave no doubt as to the immense gap that separates us.

    This childlike, inarticulate, fearsome people has been confused, wounded, tortured, and poisoned by having forced upon it the patterns of a foreign, imperious, masculine, and mature "European" culture. Its flesh has been pierced by European-style urban centers with European ambitions, and its undeveloped consciousness infected by overripe attitudes, philosophies, political ideas, and scientific principles. In 1700, Peter the Great forced upon his people the Baroque style of politics, complete with cabinet diplomacy, dynastic influence, administration, and a Western-style navy. In 1800, English ideas, basically incomprehensible to these people, made their entrance in the guise of French writers who succeeded in confusing the minds of a small intellectual minority. Even before 1900 the bookish Russian intelligentsia introduced Marxism to their country, a complex product of Western European dialectics of whose origin they were completely ignorant. Peter the Great transformed the tsarist state into a major power within the Western system, thus perverting its natural development. And the "intelligentsia," themselves the product of the Russian spirit after it was corrupted by foreign-style cities, then entered the scene with their somber longing for indigenous institutions that must arise in some far-distant future, thereby distorting the primitive thought of their country into a kind of barren, childish theorizing after the manner of professional French revolutionaries. Owing to the Russians’ boundless humility and willingness to sacrifice, Petrinism and bolshevism have accomplished some very real things in senseless and disastrous imitation of such Western creations as the Court of Versailles and the Paris Commune. But these institutions have affected only the surface of Russian existence; each of them can disappear and reappear with unpredictable swiftness.

    As yet Russia has had only religious experiences, no social or political ones. Dostoyevsky, in reality a saint who has been made to appear in the nonsensical and ridiculous Western guise of a romancier, is misunderstood if his social "problems" are considered apart from his novelistic form. His true essence is sooner to be found between than in the lines, and in The Brothers Karamazov he reaches a religious intensity comparable only to that of Dante. His revolutionary politics, on the other hand, originated within an insignificantly small metropolitan coterie which no longer possessed definite Russian sensibilities and, as far as family extraction is concerned, can indeed hardly be called Russian at all. As a consequence Dostoyevsky’s political thought was caught between the extremes of forced dogmatism and instinctive rejection.

    Hence Russia’s deep, formidable, atavistic hatred of the West, of the poison in its own body. It can be felt in the inner suffering of Dostoyevsky, in the violent outbursts of Tolstoy, and in the silent brooding of the common man. It is an irrepressible hatred, often unconscious and often concealed beneath a sincere inclination to love and understand, a basic hatred of all symbols of the Faustian will: the cities (Petersburg in particular) which intruded as vanguards of this will on the rural calm of the endless steppes; the arts and sciences, Western thought and emotion, the state, jurisprudence, administrative structure, money, industry, education, "society"—in fact, everything. It is the primeval apocalyptic hatred that distinguishes the culture of antiquity. All bolshevism contains something of the dismal bitterness of the Maccabees, as well as of the much later insurrection that led to the destruction of Jerusalem. Its rigid dogmatism alone could never have supplied the impetus that sustains the movement even to the present day. The subliminal anti-Western instincts of Russia, at first directed against Petrinism, have lent strength to bolshevism. But since bolshevism is itself an outgrowth of Petrinism it will in time be destroyed in order to complete Russia’s liberation from "Europe."

    The proletarian of the West wishes to reshape Western civilization to meet his special desires; the Russian intelligentsia wishes, by instinct if not always consciously, to destroy it. That is the meaning of Eastern nihilism. Our Western civilization has long since become purely urban; in Russia there is no such thing as "the masses," but only "the people." Every true Russian, whether his occupation is that of scholar or civil official, is basically a peasant. He is not really interested in the second-hand cities with their second-hand masses and mass ideologies. Despite Marxism, the only economic problems in that country are rural problems. The Russian "worker" is a misunderstanding. The only reality is the untouched, unharmed land, just as in Carolingian Europe. We went through this phase a thousand years ago, and thus we do not understand each other. We Western Europeans are no longer capable of living in communion with the virgin land. Whenever we go "to the country" we take with us the city with all its spiritual aspects; and we take it there in our blood, not just in our head like the Russian intelligent. The Russian mentally transports his village with him to the Russian cities.

    If we wish to understand this irreparable cleavage between Eastern and Western "socialism" we must at all times distinguish the Russian soul from the Russian political system, and the mentality of the leaders from the instincts of those they lead. For what else is Pan-Slavism but a Western-type political mask covering a strong sense of religious mission? Despite all the industrial catchwords like "surplus value" and "expropriation," the Russian worker is not an urban worker, not a man of the masses as in Manchester, Essen, and Pittsburgh. He is actually a ploughman and reaper who has left home, with a hatred for the foreign power that has spoiled the true calling that his soul still clings to. The ideological elements that make bolshevism work are quite insignificant. Even if its program were turned on its head, its unconscious mission for awakening Russia would remain the same: nihilism.

    Even so, bolshevism has an immense appeal for the fomenting intellectuals of our cities. It has become a hobby for tired and addled brains, a weapon for decaying megalopolitan souls, an expression for rotting blood. The Spartacism of the salons belongs in the same category as theosophy and occultism; it is for us the same thing as the cult of Isis was, not for the Oriental slaves in Rome but for the decadent Romans themselves. The fact that it made its entrance in Berlin has to do with the monstrous sham of this Revolution. It is relatively unimportant that empty-headed fools started founding "peasant councils" in Berlin in imitation of the Soviet model, or that no one noticed that rural affairs are the cardinal problem in Russia while our headaches are strictly urban. In the face of socialism, Spartacism has no future in Germany. But bolshevism is certain to conquer Paris, for when mingled with anarchic syndicalism it can satisfy the tired, sensation-hungry French soul. It will be the proper form of expression for the taedium vitae of that giant city that is so satiated with life. As a dangerous poison for refined Western intellects it has a greater future than in the East.

    In Russia it will be replaced by some new form of tsarism, the only possible system for a people living under such conditions. Most probably this tsarism will resemble the Prussian socialistic system more closely than capitalist parliamentarism. Yet the future of the unconscious forces of Russia lies not in the solution of political and social quandaries but in the imminent birth of a new religion, the third to emerge from the matrix of Christianity, just as Germanic-Western culture unconsciously conceived the second form of Christianity around 100 A.D. Dostoyevsky is one of the prophets of this new faith; it is as yet nameless, but it has already begun to enter with quiet, infinitely tender power.

    For us citizens of the Western world, religion is finished. In our urban souls what was once true religiosity has long since been intellectualized to "problematics." The Church reached its fulfillment at the Council of Trent. Puritanism has turned into capitalism, and Pietism is now socialism. The Anglo-American sects represent merely the nervous businessman’s need for theological pastimes. There is no more repulsive spectacle than the attempted of certain Protestant groups to revivify the cadaver of religion by smearing it with bolshevist offal. The same thing has been tried with occultism and theosophy. And nothing is more deceptive than the hope that the future religion of Russian can stimulate a revival of religion in the West. There should no longer be any misunderstanding: with its hatred of state, science, and art, Russian nihilism is also directed against Rome and Wittenberg, whose spirit is present in all forms of Western culture and thus an integral part of what this nihilism aims to destroy. Russia will push this development aside and link up once again, by way of Byzantium."


    Very interesting and although someone will maybe find something written in here offensive I don't see it that way, and I certainly don't think that the author had that intention. For me the problem of Russia is always the same; Russia is not a Western country yet their elite are constantly trying to force it to be just that even though the people of Russia are rejecting westernization. The people not Putin! Putin was another in a series of rulers who wanted Russia to be like the West, no matter the fact that it's not, it will never be and most importantly it should never want to be West because it has such a beautiful culture of it's own. Only now he's changing the course, but not of his own will but because events have forced him to. The only way for Russia to prosper is to embrace her traditions, her way of life, her spirituality, her way of dealing with people and nations. And for that she has to go back to the Byzantium ways because there is her base not Rome. Very good way to see the difference between Russia and the West is to read about Rome and the Byzantine Empire. The way the West approaches the world and other peoples is the same as that of Roman Empire. Russia can't do that because it comes in contradiction with what she is so if she acted in that ahistoric way like with the Bolsheviks for example there would be tragic consequences. West for Russia should only be a trading partner and nothing more. Any accepting of "western values" would be devastating for Russia when values that are nurtured in Russia itself between Russian peoples of all religions are timeless and are understood by people on all continents.
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    KoTeMoRe

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    Re: Common Lies, Russophobia, Nonsense on Russia:

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Sat Aug 22, 2015 5:49 pm

    Nikander wrote:"Up to now I have refrained from mentioning Russia —intentionally, for with Russia it is not a question of different peoples but of different worlds. The Russians are by no means a people like the Germans and the English. Like the Germanic tribes of the Carolingian age they contain within themselves the potentialities of many future peoples. "Russianism" is the promise of a future culture as the evening shadows grows longer and longer over the Western world. The distinctions between Russian and Western spirit cannot be drawn too sharply. As deep a cleavage as there is between the spirit, religion, politics, and economics of England, Germany, America, and France, when compared with Russia these nations suddenly appear as a unified world. It is easy to be deceived by some inhabitants of Russia who reflect strong Western influence. The true Russian is just as inwardly alien to us as a Roman in the Age of Kings or a Chinese long before Confucius would be if they were suddenly to appear among us. The Russians have been aware of this every time they have drawn a line of demarcation between "Mother Russia" and "Europe."

    For us, the primitive soul of Russia is an inscrutable something that lies behind dirt, music, vodka, meekness, and a strange melancholy. We naturally form our judgments subjectively, i.e., as the late, urban, and intellectually mature members of a wholly different culture. What we "see" in Russia is therefore not a soul just now awakening, which even Dostoyevsky was helpless to describe, but our own mental picture of it, which is formed by our superficial image of Russian life and Russian history and is further falsified by the use of such very "European" words as will, reason, and Gemut. Yet perhaps some of us are able to convey a virtually indescribable impression of that country that will leave no doubt as to the immense gap that separates us.

    This childlike, inarticulate, fearsome people has been confused, wounded, tortured, and poisoned by having forced upon it the patterns of a foreign, imperious, masculine, and mature "European" culture. Its flesh has been pierced by European-style urban centers with European ambitions, and its undeveloped consciousness infected by overripe attitudes, philosophies, political ideas, and scientific principles. In 1700, Peter the Great forced upon his people the Baroque style of politics, complete with cabinet diplomacy, dynastic influence, administration, and a Western-style navy. In 1800, English ideas, basically incomprehensible to these people, made their entrance in the guise of French writers who succeeded in confusing the minds of a small intellectual minority. Even before 1900 the bookish Russian intelligentsia introduced Marxism to their country, a complex product of Western European dialectics of whose origin they were completely ignorant. Peter the Great transformed the tsarist state into a major power within the Western system, thus perverting its natural development. And the "intelligentsia," themselves the product of the Russian spirit after it was corrupted by foreign-style cities, then entered the scene with their somber longing for indigenous institutions that must arise in some far-distant future, thereby distorting the primitive thought of their country into a kind of barren, childish theorizing after the manner of professional French revolutionaries. Owing to the Russians’ boundless humility and willingness to sacrifice, Petrinism and bolshevism have accomplished some very real things in senseless and disastrous imitation of such Western creations as the Court of Versailles and the Paris Commune. But these institutions have affected only the surface of Russian existence; each of them can disappear and reappear with unpredictable swiftness.

    As yet Russia has had only religious experiences, no social or political ones. Dostoyevsky, in reality a saint who has been made to appear in the nonsensical and ridiculous Western guise of a romancier, is misunderstood if his social "problems" are considered apart from his novelistic form. His true essence is sooner to be found between than in the lines, and in The Brothers Karamazov he reaches a religious intensity comparable only to that of Dante. His revolutionary politics, on the other hand, originated within an insignificantly small metropolitan coterie which no longer possessed definite Russian sensibilities and, as far as family extraction is concerned, can indeed hardly be called Russian at all. As a consequence Dostoyevsky’s political thought was caught between the extremes of forced dogmatism and instinctive rejection.

    Hence Russia’s deep, formidable, atavistic hatred of the West, of the poison in its own body. It can be felt in the inner suffering of Dostoyevsky, in the violent outbursts of Tolstoy, and in the silent brooding of the common man. It is an irrepressible hatred, often unconscious and often concealed beneath a sincere inclination to love and understand, a basic hatred of all symbols of the Faustian will: the cities (Petersburg in particular) which intruded as vanguards of this will on the rural calm of the endless steppes; the arts and sciences, Western thought and emotion, the state, jurisprudence, administrative structure, money, industry, education, "society"—in fact, everything. It is the primeval apocalyptic hatred that distinguishes the culture of antiquity. All bolshevism contains something of the dismal bitterness of the Maccabees, as well as of the much later insurrection that led to the destruction of Jerusalem. Its rigid dogmatism alone could never have supplied the impetus that sustains the movement even to the present day. The subliminal anti-Western instincts of Russia, at first directed against Petrinism, have lent strength to bolshevism. But since bolshevism is itself an outgrowth of Petrinism it will in time be destroyed in order to complete Russia’s liberation from "Europe."

    The proletarian of the West wishes to reshape Western civilization to meet his special desires; the Russian intelligentsia wishes, by instinct if not always consciously, to destroy it. That is the meaning of Eastern nihilism. Our Western civilization has long since become purely urban; in Russia there is no such thing as "the masses," but only "the people." Every true Russian, whether his occupation is that of scholar or civil official, is basically a peasant. He is not really interested in the second-hand cities with their second-hand masses and mass ideologies. Despite Marxism, the only economic problems in that country are rural problems. The Russian "worker" is a misunderstanding. The only reality is the untouched, unharmed land, just as in Carolingian Europe. We went through this phase a thousand years ago, and thus we do not understand each other. We Western Europeans are no longer capable of living in communion with the virgin land. Whenever we go "to the country" we take with us the city with all its spiritual aspects; and we take it there in our blood, not just in our head like the Russian intelligent. The Russian mentally transports his village with him to the Russian cities.

    If we wish to understand this irreparable cleavage between Eastern and Western "socialism" we must at all times distinguish the Russian soul from the Russian political system, and the mentality of the leaders from the instincts of those they lead. For what else is Pan-Slavism but a Western-type political mask covering a strong sense of religious mission? Despite all the industrial catchwords like "surplus value" and "expropriation," the Russian worker is not an urban worker, not a man of the masses as in Manchester, Essen, and Pittsburgh. He is actually a ploughman and reaper who has left home, with a hatred for the foreign power that has spoiled the true calling that his soul still clings to. The ideological elements that make bolshevism work are quite insignificant. Even if its program were turned on its head, its unconscious mission for awakening Russia would remain the same: nihilism.

    Even so, bolshevism has an immense appeal for the fomenting intellectuals of our cities. It has become a hobby for tired and addled brains, a weapon for decaying megalopolitan souls, an expression for rotting blood. The Spartacism of the salons belongs in the same category as theosophy and occultism; it is for us the same thing as the cult of Isis was, not for the Oriental slaves in Rome but for the decadent Romans themselves. The fact that it made its entrance in Berlin has to do with the monstrous sham of this Revolution. It is relatively unimportant that empty-headed fools started founding "peasant councils" in Berlin in imitation of the Soviet model, or that no one noticed that rural affairs are the cardinal problem in Russia while our headaches are strictly urban. In the face of socialism, Spartacism has no future in Germany. But bolshevism is certain to conquer Paris, for when mingled with anarchic syndicalism it can satisfy the tired, sensation-hungry French soul. It will be the proper form of expression for the taedium vitae of that giant city that is so satiated with life. As a dangerous poison for refined Western intellects it has a greater future than in the East.

    In Russia it will be replaced by some new form of tsarism, the only possible system for a people living under such conditions. Most probably this tsarism will resemble the Prussian socialistic system more closely than capitalist parliamentarism. Yet the future of the unconscious forces of Russia lies not in the solution of political and social quandaries but in the imminent birth of a new religion, the third to emerge from the matrix of Christianity, just as Germanic-Western culture unconsciously conceived the second form of Christianity around 100 A.D. Dostoyevsky is one of the prophets of this new faith; it is as yet nameless, but it has already begun to enter with quiet, infinitely tender power.

    For us citizens of the Western world, religion is finished. In our urban souls what was once true religiosity has long since been intellectualized to "problematics." The Church reached its fulfillment at the Council of Trent. Puritanism has turned into capitalism, and Pietism is now socialism. The Anglo-American sects represent merely the nervous businessman’s need for theological pastimes. There is no more repulsive spectacle than the attempted of certain Protestant groups to revivify the cadaver of religion by smearing it with bolshevist offal. The same thing has been tried with occultism and theosophy. And nothing is more deceptive than the hope that the future religion of Russian can stimulate a revival of religion in the West. There should no longer be any misunderstanding: with its hatred of state, science, and art, Russian nihilism is also directed against Rome and Wittenberg, whose spirit is present in all forms of Western culture and thus an integral part of what this nihilism aims to destroy. Russia will push this development aside and link up once again, by way of Byzantium."


    Very interesting and although someone will maybe find something written in here offensive I don't see it that way, and I certainly don't think that the author had that intention. For me the problem of Russia is always the same; Russia is not a Western country yet their elite are constantly trying to force it to be just that even though the people of Russia are rejecting westernization. The people not Putin! Putin was another in a series of rulers who wanted Russia to be like the West, no matter the fact that it's not, it will never be and most importantly it should never want to be West because it has such a beautiful culture of it's own. Only now he's changing the course, but not of his own will but because events have forced him to. The only way for Russia to prosper is to embrace her traditions, her way of life, her spirituality, her way of dealing with people and nations. And for that she has to go back to the Byzantium ways because there is her base not Rome. Very good way to see the difference between Russia and the West is to read about Rome and the Byzantine Empire. The way the West approaches the world and other peoples is the same as that of Roman Empire. Russia can't do that because it comes in contradiction with what she is so if she acted in that ahistoric way like with the Bolsheviks for example there would be tragic consequences. West for Russia should only be a trading partner and nothing more. Any accepting of "western values" would be devastating for Russia when values that are nurtured in Russia itself between Russian peoples of all religions are timeless and are understood by people on all continents.

    This starts from the postulate that Russia "hates" the West. That is basically non-sense. The West has grown accustomed to its own faults and servility towards self-serving situations. Take for instance the Western hate towards China. It is described in Western media and world as a Chinese take-over. The Chinese steal, copy, adulterate or outright rape the systemic limitations the West has supposedly set for its own good.

    This is basically what the whole Chinese Neo-Slavery in Africa BS is about. This is a side dish when it comes to this debate, it was merely stated to make one understand that the mirroring image used by Spengler is here to actually form the bulk of the argument we're hearing now. Even the consideration of Russia as a system, is deemed 'hate of the State", while "Communist" Soviet Union built a wholly encompassing state, in direct linearity with the MOST TOTALITARIAN state, yet to be created, which is the Roman Empire. A state built on war and state licences that constructed the first corporatist system (which sometimes after would be named, fascism by you know who) linking great owners with state privileges, also later known as nobility.

    Therefore the "western" values, is simply a myth, there are no Western Values as you can't claim you are a system which respects the Rule of the Law within your borders, but make short work of that when interacting abroad. This regards the massive corruption Western States engage when dealing with their "junior partners", which is the very form of how Rome dealt with competition. Buy or burn. Delenda Carthago is what one sees in history, the Chinese example of self preservation, turning sour, should once again enlighten people and make them see, how in reality, that "Rule of Law" is actually upheld "am Westen". It is based in a legacy from far more bloodier times, which established a series of privileges which endure. And they endure because people try to see this as a hatred equation. While it is only angst to a swing in the balance between East and West. Peaceful times are the Alambic which filters the extract of the era to come. And that's also when most of the preparation for a power handover arrive. It is during the "Belle Epoque" that Europe (UK, GB call it as you wish) was badly outclassed both in Europe and outside it. It is the blindness of British leadership and its focus on Germany that made it miss the more prevalent péril of beyond the "Pond".

    Here Spengler demonstrates again the very core issue when it comes to European Racism, which is that it is simply a short-sighted placebo hastily bundled from Social Darwinism and self-entitlement. Russians are people, which placed between a rock and a hard place evolved. Just LIke the Chinese or the Japanese. Their evolution, not their spirit, is the one people should "fear".

    Nikander

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    Re: Common Lies, Russophobia, Nonsense on Russia:

    Post  Nikander on Sat Aug 22, 2015 6:36 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Nikander wrote:"Up to now I have refrained from mentioning Russia —intentionally, for with Russia it is not a question of different peoples but of different worlds. The Russians are by no means a people like the Germans and the English. Like the Germanic tribes of the Carolingian age they contain within themselves the potentialities of many future peoples. "Russianism" is the promise of a future culture as the evening shadows grows longer and longer over the Western world. The distinctions between Russian and Western spirit cannot be drawn too sharply. As deep a cleavage as there is between the spirit, religion, politics, and economics of England, Germany, America, and France, when compared with Russia these nations suddenly appear as a unified world. It is easy to be deceived by some inhabitants of Russia who reflect strong Western influence. The true Russian is just as inwardly alien to us as a Roman in the Age of Kings or a Chinese long before Confucius would be if they were suddenly to appear among us. The Russians have been aware of this every time they have drawn a line of demarcation between "Mother Russia" and "Europe."

    For us, the primitive soul of Russia is an inscrutable something that lies behind dirt, music, vodka, meekness, and a strange melancholy. We naturally form our judgments subjectively, i.e., as the late, urban, and intellectually mature members of a wholly different culture. What we "see" in Russia is therefore not a soul just now awakening, which even Dostoyevsky was helpless to describe, but our own mental picture of it, which is formed by our superficial image of Russian life and Russian history and is further falsified by the use of such very "European" words as will, reason, and Gemut. Yet perhaps some of us are able to convey a virtually indescribable impression of that country that will leave no doubt as to the immense gap that separates us.

    This childlike, inarticulate, fearsome people has been confused, wounded, tortured, and poisoned by having forced upon it the patterns of a foreign, imperious, masculine, and mature "European" culture. Its flesh has been pierced by European-style urban centers with European ambitions, and its undeveloped consciousness infected by overripe attitudes, philosophies, political ideas, and scientific principles. In 1700, Peter the Great forced upon his people the Baroque style of politics, complete with cabinet diplomacy, dynastic influence, administration, and a Western-style navy. In 1800, English ideas, basically incomprehensible to these people, made their entrance in the guise of French writers who succeeded in confusing the minds of a small intellectual minority. Even before 1900 the bookish Russian intelligentsia introduced Marxism to their country, a complex product of Western European dialectics of whose origin they were completely ignorant. Peter the Great transformed the tsarist state into a major power within the Western system, thus perverting its natural development. And the "intelligentsia," themselves the product of the Russian spirit after it was corrupted by foreign-style cities, then entered the scene with their somber longing for indigenous institutions that must arise in some far-distant future, thereby distorting the primitive thought of their country into a kind of barren, childish theorizing after the manner of professional French revolutionaries. Owing to the Russians’ boundless humility and willingness to sacrifice, Petrinism and bolshevism have accomplished some very real things in senseless and disastrous imitation of such Western creations as the Court of Versailles and the Paris Commune. But these institutions have affected only the surface of Russian existence; each of them can disappear and reappear with unpredictable swiftness.

    As yet Russia has had only religious experiences, no social or political ones. Dostoyevsky, in reality a saint who has been made to appear in the nonsensical and ridiculous Western guise of a romancier, is misunderstood if his social "problems" are considered apart from his novelistic form. His true essence is sooner to be found between than in the lines, and in The Brothers Karamazov he reaches a religious intensity comparable only to that of Dante. His revolutionary politics, on the other hand, originated within an insignificantly small metropolitan coterie which no longer possessed definite Russian sensibilities and, as far as family extraction is concerned, can indeed hardly be called Russian at all. As a consequence Dostoyevsky’s political thought was caught between the extremes of forced dogmatism and instinctive rejection.

    Hence Russia’s deep, formidable, atavistic hatred of the West, of the poison in its own body. It can be felt in the inner suffering of Dostoyevsky, in the violent outbursts of Tolstoy, and in the silent brooding of the common man. It is an irrepressible hatred, often unconscious and often concealed beneath a sincere inclination to love and understand, a basic hatred of all symbols of the Faustian will: the cities (Petersburg in particular) which intruded as vanguards of this will on the rural calm of the endless steppes; the arts and sciences, Western thought and emotion, the state, jurisprudence, administrative structure, money, industry, education, "society"—in fact, everything. It is the primeval apocalyptic hatred that distinguishes the culture of antiquity. All bolshevism contains something of the dismal bitterness of the Maccabees, as well as of the much later insurrection that led to the destruction of Jerusalem. Its rigid dogmatism alone could never have supplied the impetus that sustains the movement even to the present day. The subliminal anti-Western instincts of Russia, at first directed against Petrinism, have lent strength to bolshevism. But since bolshevism is itself an outgrowth of Petrinism it will in time be destroyed in order to complete Russia’s liberation from "Europe."

    The proletarian of the West wishes to reshape Western civilization to meet his special desires; the Russian intelligentsia wishes, by instinct if not always consciously, to destroy it. That is the meaning of Eastern nihilism. Our Western civilization has long since become purely urban; in Russia there is no such thing as "the masses," but only "the people." Every true Russian, whether his occupation is that of scholar or civil official, is basically a peasant. He is not really interested in the second-hand cities with their second-hand masses and mass ideologies. Despite Marxism, the only economic problems in that country are rural problems. The Russian "worker" is a misunderstanding. The only reality is the untouched, unharmed land, just as in Carolingian Europe. We went through this phase a thousand years ago, and thus we do not understand each other. We Western Europeans are no longer capable of living in communion with the virgin land. Whenever we go "to the country" we take with us the city with all its spiritual aspects; and we take it there in our blood, not just in our head like the Russian intelligent. The Russian mentally transports his village with him to the Russian cities.

    If we wish to understand this irreparable cleavage between Eastern and Western "socialism" we must at all times distinguish the Russian soul from the Russian political system, and the mentality of the leaders from the instincts of those they lead. For what else is Pan-Slavism but a Western-type political mask covering a strong sense of religious mission? Despite all the industrial catchwords like "surplus value" and "expropriation," the Russian worker is not an urban worker, not a man of the masses as in Manchester, Essen, and Pittsburgh. He is actually a ploughman and reaper who has left home, with a hatred for the foreign power that has spoiled the true calling that his soul still clings to. The ideological elements that make bolshevism work are quite insignificant. Even if its program were turned on its head, its unconscious mission for awakening Russia would remain the same: nihilism.

    Even so, bolshevism has an immense appeal for the fomenting intellectuals of our cities. It has become a hobby for tired and addled brains, a weapon for decaying megalopolitan souls, an expression for rotting blood. The Spartacism of the salons belongs in the same category as theosophy and occultism; it is for us the same thing as the cult of Isis was, not for the Oriental slaves in Rome but for the decadent Romans themselves. The fact that it made its entrance in Berlin has to do with the monstrous sham of this Revolution. It is relatively unimportant that empty-headed fools started founding "peasant councils" in Berlin in imitation of the Soviet model, or that no one noticed that rural affairs are the cardinal problem in Russia while our headaches are strictly urban. In the face of socialism, Spartacism has no future in Germany. But bolshevism is certain to conquer Paris, for when mingled with anarchic syndicalism it can satisfy the tired, sensation-hungry French soul. It will be the proper form of expression for the taedium vitae of that giant city that is so satiated with life. As a dangerous poison for refined Western intellects it has a greater future than in the East.

    In Russia it will be replaced by some new form of tsarism, the only possible system for a people living under such conditions. Most probably this tsarism will resemble the Prussian socialistic system more closely than capitalist parliamentarism. Yet the future of the unconscious forces of Russia lies not in the solution of political and social quandaries but in the imminent birth of a new religion, the third to emerge from the matrix of Christianity, just as Germanic-Western culture unconsciously conceived the second form of Christianity around 100 A.D. Dostoyevsky is one of the prophets of this new faith; it is as yet nameless, but it has already begun to enter with quiet, infinitely tender power.

    For us citizens of the Western world, religion is finished. In our urban souls what was once true religiosity has long since been intellectualized to "problematics." The Church reached its fulfillment at the Council of Trent. Puritanism has turned into capitalism, and Pietism is now socialism. The Anglo-American sects represent merely the nervous businessman’s need for theological pastimes. There is no more repulsive spectacle than the attempted of certain Protestant groups to revivify the cadaver of religion by smearing it with bolshevist offal. The same thing has been tried with occultism and theosophy. And nothing is more deceptive than the hope that the future religion of Russian can stimulate a revival of religion in the West. There should no longer be any misunderstanding: with its hatred of state, science, and art, Russian nihilism is also directed against Rome and Wittenberg, whose spirit is present in all forms of Western culture and thus an integral part of what this nihilism aims to destroy. Russia will push this development aside and link up once again, by way of Byzantium."


    Very interesting and although someone will maybe find something written in here offensive I don't see it that way, and I certainly don't think that the author had that intention. For me the problem of Russia is always the same; Russia is not a Western country yet their elite are constantly trying to force it to be just that even though the people of Russia are rejecting westernization. The people not Putin! Putin was another in a series of rulers who wanted Russia to be like the West, no matter the fact that it's not, it will never be and most importantly it should never want to be West because it has such a beautiful culture of it's own. Only now he's changing the course, but not of his own will but because events have forced him to. The only way for Russia to prosper is to embrace her traditions, her way of life, her spirituality, her way of dealing with people and nations. And for that she has to go back to the Byzantium ways because there is her base not Rome. Very good way to see the difference between Russia and the West is to read about Rome and the Byzantine Empire. The way the West approaches the world and other peoples is the same as that of Roman Empire. Russia can't do that because it comes in contradiction with what she is so if she acted in that ahistoric way like with the Bolsheviks for example there would be tragic consequences. West for Russia should only be a trading partner and nothing more. Any accepting of "western values" would be devastating for Russia when values that are nurtured in Russia itself between Russian peoples of all religions are timeless and are understood by people on all continents.

    This starts from the postulate that Russia "hates" the West. That is basically non-sense. The West has grown accustomed to its own faults and servility towards self-serving situations. Take for instance the Western hate towards China. It is described in Western media and world as a Chinese take-over. The Chinese steal, copy, adulterate or outright rape the systemic limitations the West has supposedly set for its own good.

    This is basically what the whole Chinese Neo-Slavery in Africa BS is about. This is a side dish when it comes to this debate, it was merely stated to make one understand that the mirroring image used by Spengler is here to actually form the bulk of the argument we're hearing now. Even the consideration of Russia as a system, is deemed 'hate of the State", while "Communist" Soviet Union built a wholly encompassing state, in direct linearity with the MOST TOTALITARIAN state, yet to be created, which is the Roman Empire. A state built on war and state licences that constructed the first corporatist system (which sometimes after would be named, fascism by you know who) linking great owners with state privileges, also later known as nobility.

    Therefore the "western" values, is simply a myth, there are no Western Values as you can't claim you are a system which respects the Rule of the Law within your borders, but make short work of that when interacting abroad. This regards the massive corruption Western States engage when dealing with their "junior partners", which is the very form of how Rome dealt with competition. Buy or burn. Delenda Carthago is what one sees in history, the Chinese example of self preservation, turning sour, should once again enlighten people and make them see, how in reality, that "Rule of Law" is actually upheld "am Westen". It is based in a legacy from far more bloodier times, which established a series of privileges which endure. And they endure because people try to see this as a hatred equation. While it is only angst to a swing in the balance between East and West. Peaceful times are the Alambic which filters the extract of the era to come. And that's also when most of the preparation for a power handover arrive. It is during the "Belle Epoque" that Europe (UK, GB call it as you wish) was badly outclassed both in Europe and outside it. It is the blindness of British leadership and its focus on Germany that made it miss the more prevalent péril of beyond the "Pond".

    Here Spengler demonstrates again the very core issue when it comes to European Racism, which is that it is simply a short-sighted placebo hastily bundled from Social Darwinism and self-entitlement. Russians are people, which placed btwn a rock and a hard evolved. Just LIke the Chinese or the Japanese.

    I agree with you on everything but still believe that there are some very interesting observations about Russia even with all it's faults.
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    KoTeMoRe

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    Re: Common Lies, Russophobia, Nonsense on Russia:

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Sat Aug 22, 2015 7:56 pm

    Nikander wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Nikander wrote:"Up to now I have refrained from mentioning Russia —intentionally, for with Russia it is not a question of different peoples but of different worlds. The Russians are by no means a people like the Germans and the English. Like the Germanic tribes of the Carolingian age they contain within themselves the potentialities of many future peoples. "Russianism" is the promise of a future culture as the evening shadows grows longer and longer over the Western world. The distinctions between Russian and Western spirit cannot be drawn too sharply. As deep a cleavage as there is between the spirit, religion, politics, and economics of England, Germany, America, and France, when compared with Russia these nations suddenly appear as a unified world. It is easy to be deceived by some inhabitants of Russia who reflect strong Western influence. The true Russian is just as inwardly alien to us as a Roman in the Age of Kings or a Chinese long before Confucius would be if they were suddenly to appear among us. The Russians have been aware of this every time they have drawn a line of demarcation between "Mother Russia" and "Europe."

    For us, the primitive soul of Russia is an inscrutable something that lies behind dirt, music, vodka, meekness, and a strange melancholy. We naturally form our judgments subjectively, i.e., as the late, urban, and intellectually mature members of a wholly different culture. What we "see" in Russia is therefore not a soul just now awakening, which even Dostoyevsky was helpless to describe, but our own mental picture of it, which is formed by our superficial image of Russian life and Russian history and is further falsified by the use of such very "European" words as will, reason, and Gemut. Yet perhaps some of us are able to convey a virtually indescribable impression of that country that will leave no doubt as to the immense gap that separates us.

    This childlike, inarticulate, fearsome people has been confused, wounded, tortured, and poisoned by having forced upon it the patterns of a foreign, imperious, masculine, and mature "European" culture. Its flesh has been pierced by European-style urban centers with European ambitions, and its undeveloped consciousness infected by overripe attitudes, philosophies, political ideas, and scientific principles. In 1700, Peter the Great forced upon his people the Baroque style of politics, complete with cabinet diplomacy, dynastic influence, administration, and a Western-style navy. In 1800, English ideas, basically incomprehensible to these people, made their entrance in the guise of French writers who succeeded in confusing the minds of a small intellectual minority. Even before 1900 the bookish Russian intelligentsia introduced Marxism to their country, a complex product of Western European dialectics of whose origin they were completely ignorant. Peter the Great transformed the tsarist state into a major power within the Western system, thus perverting its natural development. And the "intelligentsia," themselves the product of the Russian spirit after it was corrupted by foreign-style cities, then entered the scene with their somber longing for indigenous institutions that must arise in some far-distant future, thereby distorting the primitive thought of their country into a kind of barren, childish theorizing after the manner of professional French revolutionaries. Owing to the Russians’ boundless humility and willingness to sacrifice, Petrinism and bolshevism have accomplished some very real things in senseless and disastrous imitation of such Western creations as the Court of Versailles and the Paris Commune. But these institutions have affected only the surface of Russian existence; each of them can disappear and reappear with unpredictable swiftness.

    As yet Russia has had only religious experiences, no social or political ones. Dostoyevsky, in reality a saint who has been made to appear in the nonsensical and ridiculous Western guise of a romancier, is misunderstood if his social "problems" are considered apart from his novelistic form. His true essence is sooner to be found between than in the lines, and in The Brothers Karamazov he reaches a religious intensity comparable only to that of Dante. His revolutionary politics, on the other hand, originated within an insignificantly small metropolitan coterie which no longer possessed definite Russian sensibilities and, as far as family extraction is concerned, can indeed hardly be called Russian at all. As a consequence Dostoyevsky’s political thought was caught between the extremes of forced dogmatism and instinctive rejection.

    Hence Russia’s deep, formidable, atavistic hatred of the West, of the poison in its own body. It can be felt in the inner suffering of Dostoyevsky, in the violent outbursts of Tolstoy, and in the silent brooding of the common man. It is an irrepressible hatred, often unconscious and often concealed beneath a sincere inclination to love and understand, a basic hatred of all symbols of the Faustian will: the cities (Petersburg in particular) which intruded as vanguards of this will on the rural calm of the endless steppes; the arts and sciences, Western thought and emotion, the state, jurisprudence, administrative structure, money, industry, education, "society"—in fact, everything. It is the primeval apocalyptic hatred that distinguishes the culture of antiquity. All bolshevism contains something of the dismal bitterness of the Maccabees, as well as of the much later insurrection that led to the destruction of Jerusalem. Its rigid dogmatism alone could never have supplied the impetus that sustains the movement even to the present day. The subliminal anti-Western instincts of Russia, at first directed against Petrinism, have lent strength to bolshevism. But since bolshevism is itself an outgrowth of Petrinism it will in time be destroyed in order to complete Russia’s liberation from "Europe."

    The proletarian of the West wishes to reshape Western civilization to meet his special desires; the Russian intelligentsia wishes, by instinct if not always consciously, to destroy it. That is the meaning of Eastern nihilism. Our Western civilization has long since become purely urban; in Russia there is no such thing as "the masses," but only "the people." Every true Russian, whether his occupation is that of scholar or civil official, is basically a peasant. He is not really interested in the second-hand cities with their second-hand masses and mass ideologies. Despite Marxism, the only economic problems in that country are rural problems. The Russian "worker" is a misunderstanding. The only reality is the untouched, unharmed land, just as in Carolingian Europe. We went through this phase a thousand years ago, and thus we do not understand each other. We Western Europeans are no longer capable of living in communion with the virgin land. Whenever we go "to the country" we take with us the city with all its spiritual aspects; and we take it there in our blood, not just in our head like the Russian intelligent. The Russian mentally transports his village with him to the Russian cities.

    If we wish to understand this irreparable cleavage between Eastern and Western "socialism" we must at all times distinguish the Russian soul from the Russian political system, and the mentality of the leaders from the instincts of those they lead. For what else is Pan-Slavism but a Western-type political mask covering a strong sense of religious mission? Despite all the industrial catchwords like "surplus value" and "expropriation," the Russian worker is not an urban worker, not a man of the masses as in Manchester, Essen, and Pittsburgh. He is actually a ploughman and reaper who has left home, with a hatred for the foreign power that has spoiled the true calling that his soul still clings to. The ideological elements that make bolshevism work are quite insignificant. Even if its program were turned on its head, its unconscious mission for awakening Russia would remain the same: nihilism.

    Even so, bolshevism has an immense appeal for the fomenting intellectuals of our cities. It has become a hobby for tired and addled brains, a weapon for decaying megalopolitan souls, an expression for rotting blood. The Spartacism of the salons belongs in the same category as theosophy and occultism; it is for us the same thing as the cult of Isis was, not for the Oriental slaves in Rome but for the decadent Romans themselves. The fact that it made its entrance in Berlin has to do with the monstrous sham of this Revolution. It is relatively unimportant that empty-headed fools started founding "peasant councils" in Berlin in imitation of the Soviet model, or that no one noticed that rural affairs are the cardinal problem in Russia while our headaches are strictly urban. In the face of socialism, Spartacism has no future in Germany. But bolshevism is certain to conquer Paris, for when mingled with anarchic syndicalism it can satisfy the tired, sensation-hungry French soul. It will be the proper form of expression for the taedium vitae of that giant city that is so satiated with life. As a dangerous poison for refined Western intellects it has a greater future than in the East.

    In Russia it will be replaced by some new form of tsarism, the only possible system for a people living under such conditions. Most probably this tsarism will resemble the Prussian socialistic system more closely than capitalist parliamentarism. Yet the future of the unconscious forces of Russia lies not in the solution of political and social quandaries but in the imminent birth of a new religion, the third to emerge from the matrix of Christianity, just as Germanic-Western culture unconsciously conceived the second form of Christianity around 100 A.D. Dostoyevsky is one of the prophets of this new faith; it is as yet nameless, but it has already begun to enter with quiet, infinitely tender power.

    For us citizens of the Western world, religion is finished. In our urban souls what was once true religiosity has long since been intellectualized to "problematics." The Church reached its fulfillment at the Council of Trent. Puritanism has turned into capitalism, and Pietism is now socialism. The Anglo-American sects represent merely the nervous businessman’s need for theological pastimes. There is no more repulsive spectacle than the attempted of certain Protestant groups to revivify the cadaver of religion by smearing it with bolshevist offal. The same thing has been tried with occultism and theosophy. And nothing is more deceptive than the hope that the future religion of Russian can stimulate a revival of religion in the West. There should no longer be any misunderstanding: with its hatred of state, science, and art, Russian nihilism is also directed against Rome and Wittenberg, whose spirit is present in all forms of Western culture and thus an integral part of what this nihilism aims to destroy. Russia will push this development aside and link up once again, by way of Byzantium."


    Very interesting and although someone will maybe find something written in here offensive I don't see it that way, and I certainly don't think that the author had that intention. For me the problem of Russia is always the same; Russia is not a Western country yet their elite are constantly trying to force it to be just that even though the people of Russia are rejecting westernization. The people not Putin! Putin was another in a series of rulers who wanted Russia to be like the West, no matter the fact that it's not, it will never be and most importantly it should never want to be West because it has such a beautiful culture of it's own. Only now he's changing the course, but not of his own will but because events have forced him to. The only way for Russia to prosper is to embrace her traditions, her way of life, her spirituality, her way of dealing with people and nations. And for that she has to go back to the Byzantium ways because there is her base not Rome. Very good way to see the difference between Russia and the West is to read about Rome and the Byzantine Empire. The way the West approaches the world and other peoples is the same as that of Roman Empire. Russia can't do that because it comes in contradiction with what she is so if she acted in that ahistoric way like with the Bolsheviks for example there would be tragic consequences. West for Russia should only be a trading partner and nothing more. Any accepting of "western values" would be devastating for Russia when values that are nurtured in Russia itself between Russian peoples of all religions are timeless and are understood by people on all continents.

    This starts from the postulate that Russia "hates" the West. That is basically non-sense. The West has grown accustomed to its own faults and servility towards self-serving situations. Take for instance the Western hate towards China. It is described in Western media and world as a Chinese take-over. The Chinese steal, copy, adulterate or outright rape the systemic limitations the West has supposedly set for its own good.

    This is basically what the whole Chinese Neo-Slavery in Africa BS is about. This is a side dish when it comes to this debate, it was merely stated to make one understand that the mirroring image used by Spengler is here to actually form the bulk of the argument we're hearing now. Even the consideration of Russia as a system, is deemed 'hate of the State", while "Communist" Soviet Union built a wholly encompassing state, in direct linearity with the MOST TOTALITARIAN state, yet to be created, which is the Roman Empire. A state built on war and state licences that constructed the first corporatist system (which sometimes after would be named, fascism by you know who) linking great owners with state privileges, also later known as nobility.

    Therefore the "western" values, is simply a myth, there are no Western Values as you can't claim you are a system which respects the Rule of the Law within your borders, but make short work of that when interacting abroad. This regards the massive corruption Western States engage when dealing with their "junior partners", which is the very form of how Rome dealt with competition. Buy or burn. Delenda Carthago is what one sees in history, the Chinese example of self preservation, turning sour, should once again enlighten people and make them see, how in reality, that "Rule of Law" is actually upheld "am Westen". It is based in a legacy from far more bloodier times, which established a series of privileges which endure. And they endure because people try to see this as a hatred equation. While it is only angst to a swing in the balance between East and West. Peaceful times are the Alambic which filters the extract of the era to come. And that's also when most of the preparation for a power handover arrive. It is during the "Belle Epoque" that Europe (UK, GB call it as you wish) was badly outclassed both in Europe and outside it. It is the blindness of British leadership and its focus on Germany that made it miss the more prevalent péril of beyond the "Pond".

    Here Spengler demonstrates again the very core issue when it comes to European Racism, which is that it is simply a short-sighted placebo hastily bundled from Social Darwinism and self-entitlement. Russians are people, which placed btwn a rock and a hard evolved. Just LIke the Chinese or the Japanese.

    I agree with you on everything but still believe that there are some very interesting observations about Russia even with all it's faults.

    Spengler was keen to replace contemplation (which is a subjective look on how things appear) and objective observation.

    You can critically coin the very core of the issue at the vision he has of "Bolshevism and Marxism". Calling bolshevism a rotten ideal, is akin to considering his own Pangermanism a pale copy of PanSlavism, only 100 years late. The uplifting of Russian ethos, from a largely agrarian one to the mix of rabid conservatism (to the point of negation) and modern nihilism, is actually what made the Russians what they are now. They can live everywhere without needing to conform to their past or their present. Ironically Russians share that with most of the Migrants. They can start over without the fear of getting lost, while most Westerners can't do the same. This is something which is at the core of Spengler's rant. The fact that what he sees as a péril, is in fact the greater grit and endurance of what he falsely claim to be Russian spirit. Actually that's simply a temporary way of life. The same can be said for the false idea that Slavic or Balkanic people are "tough as nails" or "can endure more pain". That's simply a temporary issue, which is being fixed over time, with a spike in basic comfort. What Spengler however doesn't see, or take on, is that Russians had then a very deep sense of fairness. They were under a very tough boot and reacted accordingly. Even though most of the people that was shot, hanged or disappeared during the great bloody washout of the Russian Aristocracy wasn't so linked to the hardcore autocratic bunch that was keen on suppressing freedom for the masses. This sense of justice (according to a different set of values) is also visible in the current Arab "spring crisis", which sees downtrodden populations judge "justice" in a totally different way, we would, and supports people whose justice is only a different form of oppression. That's simply a pendulum movement, a backlash.

    I could post you the same kind of bullshit only 130 years earlier from some dude called LeMaistre on the French Revolution and French populace. The kind of basic nonsense spilled in a class rift, will always boild down to three main points:

    https://books.google.be/books?id=W7kVOS9_ZJ0C&pg=PA9&hl=fr&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=4#v=onepage&q&f=false

    Here you can read DAT BS.

    1. Natural State (Bon Sauvage myth) of said population, needing class guidelines.
    2. Foreign Corruption (Conspiracy) of said population by alien ideas (which in most cases is true as a side threat, but not as a main threat).
    3. Complete destruction of the State as a necessary Balance, opening the way for a whirlwind of destruction chaos and only to be calmed by Methaphysical manifestations (aka Religion re-Introduced by Napoleon).

    However this falls flat on most points. The narrow mindedness of Spengler avoids to see that the Creation of Russia is a political Act. EVERY ONE OF THE STEPS that led to Russia, were carefully thought movements by its leadership according to their options. From initial secession from Kievan Rus, to the way they acted under Tatar and Mongol domination, to the Orthodox conversion and beyond that to how Russia tried time and again to step in the Continental chessboard.

    Spengler himself, in a very Maistrian way, hides these realities, bitter of his own country's demise while the Russian Savages stood their ground and caused a gigantic destruction to the prestige of Western "Civilization". They did so, by subtracting everything the West took as "Avant-Garde" and making it more extreme, faster and in some cases better. This complete and utter spiritual dominance from a "Soviet Spiritual Fresh Start" has all to do with the bile Spengler throws up on "Russia". It is so basic and classic especially when you see how ZE Germans were catching up and beating the British on the Continent, under the old playbook.

    Then come a couple million "savages" and destroy your theological march to third Rome and by that start political kettles all over the place. Huge Strikes take their toll, laymen call for Aristocratic heads to roll, they push the audacity to even parade under your nose their examples of "social" Justice. And all this for what? A "political manoeuvre from German GenStab that turned sour" aka "Lenin".

    Off course that shitface of a "philosopher" will call foul play on those savages. His own conservatism can't let him face the obvious, nature has its ways in each system. So when two alpha males fight and hurt each other, the young guys will prey on them. Not seeing this coming is clearly the sign of class blindness. Or simply bitterness at a defeat the Germans were sold as "a stab in the back from Commies". An impostor starts loosing grip with reality when he believes his own imposture. That's what Spengler is about. And as a good Impostor he reckoned the farce that was the IIIrd Reich. Birds of the same feather etc...

    But you are right on one point, though. Know thy Enemy! These are the kind of people easterners, need to look out for, these are those that under the guise of philosophy, preach hatred and violence, in far more dramatic way than Imams on Friday. Their tongues are twisted and well prepared to submit the masses to basic points, that once stripped of their whistles or bells, sound a hella lot dangerous.

    1. We're losing our own race under our own rules.
    2. We need to makes sure that doesn't happen or we could end up the slaves of our own equation.
    3. We need to make it look like this is abnormal and thus there's foul play, allowing us to act with the few advantages we still have (military, trade, "hearts and minds").

    And so you see the nonsense piling up with Russian aggression, Chinese adventurism, or War of Drugs. Same manifestations of what's normal course of business.
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    flamming_python

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    Re: Common Lies, Russophobia, Nonsense on Russia:

    Post  flamming_python on Sun Aug 23, 2015 1:57 am

    Who the fk cares about this racist trash? The same arguments used to be made aboug how Negros are fit onlh for servility.

    I don't think that modern society is neccesserily more enlightened compared to our forebears 70-80 years ago in everything, but in terms of understanding each others' cultural differences we certainly are.
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    KoTeMoRe

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    Re: Common Lies, Russophobia, Nonsense on Russia:

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Sun Aug 23, 2015 2:24 am

    flamming_python wrote:Who the fk cares about this racist trash? The same arguments used to be made aboug how Negros are fit onlh for servility.

    I don't think that modern society is neccesserily more enlightened compared to our forebears 70-80 years ago in everything, but in terms of understanding each others' cultural differences we certainly are.

    I don't think we are actually given most of the idiotic, anti-cultural shit Euro-centeric cultures are attempting under the guise of enlightenment...
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    George1

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    Re: Common Lies, Russophobia, Nonsense on Russia:

    Post  George1 on Thu Sep 24, 2015 11:43 pm

    Moscow outraged over Moldova's initiative to set up "war museum of Soviet occupation"

    "The fact that Moldova’s authorities carry out such events the year celebrating the 70th anniversary of Victory of the Soviet people over fascism is of special cynicism," the statement said

    MOSCOW, September 23. /TASS/. Russia is outraged by an initiative of Moldova’s Defence Ministry to create a "war museum of Soviet occupation," the Foreign Ministry said on Wednesday.

    Moscow considers the idea voiced by Defense Minister Anatol Salaru as a "blasphemous dismantling" of a memorial to heroes-tankers in Beltsy, the second-largest city in Moldova after the capital Chisinau, the ministry stressed.

    "The fact that Moldova’s authorities carry out such events the year celebrating the 70th anniversary of Victory of the Soviet people over fascism is of special cynicism," the statement said.

    Over the past several years, Moldova’s authorities have failed to comply with the agreement signed by Chisinau in 2011 to perpetuate the memory of courage and heroism of the peoples of the CIS member-states during the Great Patriotic War of 1941-1945, it said.

    "We hope that amid mass protests in Chisinau, Moldova’s authorities will have enough political maturity and common sense not to substitute for the lack of dialogue with its own people by implementing ideas that can result in a serious deterioration of the Russian-Moldovan ties," the ministry stressed.


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    kvs

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    Re: Common Lies, Russophobia, Nonsense on Russia:

    Post  kvs on Fri Sep 25, 2015 1:06 am

    George1 wrote:Moscow outraged over Moldova's initiative to set up "war museum of Soviet occupation"

    "The fact that Moldova’s authorities carry out such events the year celebrating the 70th anniversary of Victory of the Soviet people over fascism is of special cynicism," the statement said

    MOSCOW, September 23. /TASS/. Russia is outraged by an initiative of Moldova’s Defence Ministry to create a "war museum of Soviet occupation," the Foreign Ministry said on Wednesday.

    Moscow considers the idea voiced by Defense Minister Anatol Salaru as a "blasphemous dismantling" of a memorial to heroes-tankers in Beltsy, the second-largest city in Moldova after the capital Chisinau, the ministry stressed.

    "The fact that Moldova’s authorities carry out such events the year celebrating the 70th anniversary of Victory of the Soviet people over fascism is of special cynicism," the statement said.

    Over the past several years, Moldova’s authorities have failed to comply with the agreement signed by Chisinau in 2011 to perpetuate the memory of courage and heroism of the peoples of the CIS member-states during the Great Patriotic War of 1941-1945, it said.

    "We hope that amid mass protests in Chisinau, Moldova’s authorities will have enough political maturity and common sense not to substitute for the lack of dialogue with its own people by implementing ideas that can result in a serious deterioration of the Russian-Moldovan ties," the ministry stressed.

    All these two bit monkey shits can go to Hell. They would not be around today if the Reich won. These Moldovan Romanian nationalists are the same
    Nazi excrement as the Banderatards. They have fond memories passed to them by their grandfathers and fathers of licking Hitler's boots. They
    want to turn Hitler into a saint and attribute all of his evil to Stalin.

    I don't understand why Moldova doesn't join Romania already.
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    OminousSpudd

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    Re: Common Lies, Russophobia, Nonsense on Russia:

    Post  OminousSpudd on Tue Sep 29, 2015 2:53 am



    Watch these New Yorkers/Ukies freak out at an RT journalist wearing a Putin T-shirt. Twisted Evil
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    Re: Common Lies, Russophobia, Nonsense on Russia:

    Post  George1 on Sat Oct 31, 2015 6:29 pm

    Ukraine’s parliament to ban geographical names dating back to Czarist Russia

    In April, the Ukrainian parliament passed a law banning the symbols of Communism

    KIEV, October 30. /TASS/. Ukraine’s Verkhovna Rada on Thursday registered a bill prohibiting the names of cities and streets that date back to the times of Czarist Russia, that is, before March 1917, the parliamentary secretariat said.

    The bill was initiated by deputies of all the four factions of the ruling nationalistic coalition - the Petro Proshenko bloc, the People’s Front, Samopomich, and Batkivshchina.

    The bill prohibits giving the names or pseudo-names of Russian monarchs, statesmen, politicians, or military of the Russian state of the period from the 14th through to the 20th century or the names derived from them, as well as the names consonant with or including the elements of the titles of Russian monarchs to geographic objects on the territory of Ukraine.

    "To bring the laws concerning totalitarian regimes and fighters for independence into conformity with European practices, it stands to reason to ban the geographic names linked to the propaganda of Russian imperialism, the Russian Kingdom and Muscovy, the Russian Empire of the 14th through to the 20th century, and the period of Ukraine’s colonial depends, as they may be fueling the plans to misappropriate Ukrainian territories," the bill says.

    Experts say the bill aims to prevent the return of the historic name Yelisavetgrad to Kirovograd, which the incumbent Ukrainian politicians think to be alluding to Empress Elizabeth, who ruled in Russia from 1741 through to 1762. The true fact of history, however, is the city’s original name relates to St Elizabeth.

    In April, the Verkhovna Rada passed a law banning the symbols of Communism. It demands that the local authorities rename the regions, districts, cities, villages, and other geographic objects having Soviet names.


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    Re: Common Lies, Russophobia, Nonsense on Russia:

    Post  OminousSpudd on Thu Nov 05, 2015 9:35 pm

    Ubisoft's Rainbow Six Siege Spetznas preview. Spot the BS. Also, the comments section is legendary.


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    Re: Common Lies, Russophobia, Nonsense on Russia:

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Nov 05, 2015 9:53 pm

    Russia Is the US's Equal in Military Technology

    -The recent article in the National Interest is wrong in thinking that Russia is behind the US and military technology

    -Russia’s military responses are not conditioned by technological inferiority

    -Historical experience and the flood of new weapons coming out of Russia shows Russia is the US’s equal in military technology


    A recent article about Russia’s military in the US journal the National Interest republished by Russia Insider starts with the following statement:

    “The trend toward greater automation, including the use of remote control weapons and AI-driven autonomous warfare, will increasingly put the Russian military at a disadvantage.

    Russia does not have the technology to match Western automated systems and lacks the capabilities to develop such systems on its own in the foreseeable future. Russia’s defense industry is well behind Western militaries in automated control systems, strike drones, and advanced electronics of all kinds.

    The Russian government has recognized these gaps and, until recently, was attempting to rectify them through cooperation with the Western defense industry.

    However, the freezing of military cooperation between NATO member states and Russia in the aftermath of the annexation of Crimea and the concurrent imposition of sanctions by most Western states will preclude the rapid acquisition of advanced military and dual-use technology by Russian defense firms for the foreseeable future.”
    This theme - that Russia lacks the technology to compete with the West in weapons development - has been a constant of Western commentary about Russia since the 1930s.

    It has been repeatedly proved to be untrue. Examples are legion. Here are some of the most famous:

    1. The shock the Germans experienced in 1941 when they came up against Russian tanks like the KV1 and the T34, which were more advanced than their own;

    2. The shock the US experienced in 1949 when the USSR exploded its first nuclear bomb;

    3. The shock the US airforce suffered in the 1950s when it came up against the MiG-15 in Korea;

    4. The still greater shock the US suffered when the USSR in 1957 launched the world’s first artificial satellite, proving it had the capability to strike the US with intercontinental missiles;

    5. The shock in the 1960s when the US airforce found they were unable to achieve aerial dominance over Hanoi against a North Vietnamese airforce equipped with Russian fighters;

    6. The shock the Israelis suffered during the 1973 Yom Kippur war when they came up against Russian supplied anti-tank and anti-aircraft missiles;


    7. The shock during the 2006 Lebanon war when the Israelis again came up against modern Russian anti-tank missiles.

    Since the 1970s there have been no occasions when the Western powers have had to fight an enemy equipped with the most modern Russian weapons. However recent defeats in simulated air combat by the Indian airforce equipped with Russian fighters of the US and British airforces suggest that if they did the results might be devastating.

    US and Israeli concern about the sale by Russia of S300 anti-aircraft missiles to Iran also suggests concern on the part of Western militaries about the capability of Russian weapons, as do reports that the US navy was deterred from close deployment near Crimea during the March 2014 Crimean crisis by the deployment of Russian land-based anti-ship missiles there.

    The article in the National Interest does make one point that is in part true. This is that Russia did fall heavily behind the US in drone warfare.

    This was not however because of technological backwardness. The USSR in the 1980s had an advanced drone programme. The reason it never came to fruition is because the USSR collapsed and Russia, which emerged out of the USSR, was caught up for decades in an existential crisis, which forced it to bring military procurement plans to a stop.  

    Russia does now have an active drone programme, the first examples of which are now entering service.

    A similar point can incidentally be made about Russia’s GLONASS satellite navigation system. This would have been in full operation decades ago - and soon after the US introduced GPS - if the USSR had not disintegrated when it did.

    The reality - as the record and the present situation both show - is that there is approximate technology parity between the the US and Russia. Since the US spends so much more than Russia does on defence, it can sometimes bring a particular technology into service more quickly than Russia can. However the Russians have repeatedly shown that whenever a technological gap arises they can quickly close it. The cornucopia of new weapons now appearing in Russia shows that has in no way changed.

    The persistence of this myth of Russian technological backwardness is remarkable given how often it has been proved wrong. At one level it shows how entrenched myths about Russia are.

    It explains many of the problems US war fighting has experienced since the end of the Second World War.

    The belief that Russia - the US’s chief military adversary and historically the main supplier of weapons to the US’s opponents - is far behind the US technologically has repeatedly led to the US over-investing in technology whilst neglecting other critical parts of its military system. This approach is guaranteed to fail when it turns out that the enemy is not so technologically backward after all.

    It is true - as the article in the National Interest says - that Russia will not waste its money by duplicating every weapon the US produces. At the same time some of the Russian strategies the article in the National Interest discusses make sense irrespective of cost or technological considerations.

    Given the heavy dependence of drones on secure communications it makes for example perfect sense for the Russians to develop their already very advanced electronic warfare systems in order to jam them. There are in fact already scattered reports of US reconnaissance drones being successfully brought down by jamming whilst overflying Crimea and Iran.

    Overall however, with its comments about Russian technological backwardness and its flesh-creeping talk of Russian cyber warfare, the article in the National Interest tells us less about Russian military plans and capabilities than about the illusions and prejudices of the author.

    http://russia-insider.com/en/military/russia-uss-equal-military-technology/ri9358

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    Werewolf

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    Re: Common Lies, Russophobia, Nonsense on Russia:

    Post  Werewolf on Thu Nov 05, 2015 10:00 pm

    OminousSpudd wrote:Ubisoft's Rainbow Six Siege Spetznas preview. Spot the BS. Also, the comments section is legendary.



    This is conditioning in the West.

    Every game created by western game developers implement this propaganda filled garbage to create the picture their own heads are filled with.

    Go on any video game and pick up a russian designed weapon you will notice that the weapon has rust on it, lot of scratches to show its worn out, has always less accuracy then any pumpgun and visors are always dirty, uncleaned and bad designed with fat marks that cover half the target and make it horrible to use. That is not exception but general things western companies implement to keep the line of "russia old rusted junk" politics, be it on purpose with full knowledge of truth or just because they have already reached the 3rd generation where they believe everything and just repeat it as they see it, it does not matter that is something that is done on purpose.

    All western weapons are most off the time highly accurate, very low recoil, highly polished, no scratches or dirt on scopes to give them a better look, more modern, not worn out. That is subtile propaganda that is constantly used in Hoolywood and videogame industry.

    Same thing with this, they have no jack shit idea of russian equipment and do not even care that is why they have "self-made explosives" and not military degree explosives, which are russians are known to have highly sophisticated stuff for almost every imaginable job.
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    Re: Common Lies, Russophobia, Nonsense on Russia:

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Nov 05, 2015 10:10 pm

    Whats funny is that apparently in the game these guys are some of the most effective/fun to play as.  At least that is what the people on 4chan /v/ were saying.
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    Re: Common Lies, Russophobia, Nonsense on Russia:

    Post  OminousSpudd on Thu Nov 05, 2015 11:37 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    OminousSpudd wrote:Ubisoft's Rainbow Six Siege Spetznas preview. Spot the BS. Also, the comments section is legendary.



    This is conditioning in the West.

    Every game created by western game developers implement this propaganda filled garbage to create the picture their own heads are filled with.

    Go on any video game and pick up a russian designed weapon you will notice that the weapon has rust on it, lot of scratches to show its worn out, has always less accuracy then any pumpgun and visors are always dirty, uncleaned and bad designed with fat marks that cover half the target and make it horrible to use. That is not exception but general things western companies implement to keep the line of "russia old rusted junk" politics, be it on purpose with full knowledge of truth or just because they have already reached the 3rd generation where they believe everything and just repeat it as they see it, it does not matter that is something that is done on purpose.

    All western weapons are most off the time highly accurate, very low recoil, highly polished, no scratches or dirt on scopes to give them a better look, more modern, not worn out. That is subtile propaganda that is constantly used in Hoolywood and videogame industry.

    Same thing with this, they have no jack shit idea of russian equipment and do not even care that is why they have "self-made explosives" and not military degree explosives, which are russians are known to have highly sophisticated stuff for almost every imaginable job.

    Which is why Battlefield 4 even with all its money grubbing still managed to slightly impress me with their balanced take on all of the weapons implemented... Their last gun package update contained three Russian weapons (two of them very obscure in Western circles) and only one Western, which was British at that. Also the RU soldier's VDV gear is the most badass of the lot in my opinion.

    Also the best gun in the game is hands down the AEK-971.

    So it can be done...

    This representation of GRU/FSB Spetznas (they probably don't even know themselves) or whatever is so ludicrous I think there was probably interest money behind it.
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    Re: Common Lies, Russophobia, Nonsense on Russia:

    Post  higurashihougi on Fri Nov 06, 2015 9:08 am

    Werewolf wrote:This is conditioning in the West.

    Every game created by western game developers implement this propaganda filled garbage to create the picture their own heads are filled with.

    Go on any video game and pick up a russian designed weapon you will notice that the weapon has rust on it, lot of scratches to show its worn out, has always less accuracy then any pumpgun and visors are always dirty, uncleaned and bad designed with fat marks that cover half the target and make it horrible to use. That is not exception but general things western companies implement to keep the line of "russia old rusted junk" politics, be it on purpose with full knowledge of truth or just because they have already reached the 3rd generation where they believe everything and just repeat it as they see it, it does not matter that is something that is done on purpose.

    All western weapons are most off the time highly accurate, very low recoil, highly polished, no scratches or dirt on scopes to give them a better look, more modern, not worn out. That is subtile propaganda that is constantly used in Hoolywood and videogame industry.

    Same thing with this, they have no jack shit idea of russian equipment and do not even care that is why they have "self-made explosives" and not military degree explosives, which are russians are known to have highly sophisticated stuff for almost every imaginable job.

    I have just played American Conquest: Fight Back and I confirmed most of the thing you said.

    In the game Russia is presented as the weakest and most backward European faction. But the fact is that Russia was one of the first ones who use barrel-drilled muskets, and Russia is the center of industrial revolution of Eastern Europe.
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    Re: Common Lies, Russophobia, Nonsense on Russia:

    Post  Walther von Oldenburg on Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:09 pm

    Arma II and Combat Mission games portrayed Soviet/Russian equipment well. In both of them you can play as Russians and in CMBS there is an entire Russian campaign in which you fight as Russians against Ukrainians and Americans.
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    Re: Common Lies, Russophobia, Nonsense on Russia:

    Post  Werewolf on Fri Nov 06, 2015 4:42 pm

    OminousSpudd wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    OminousSpudd wrote:Ubisoft's Rainbow Six Siege Spetznas preview. Spot the BS. Also, the comments section is legendary.



    This is conditioning in the West.

    Every game created by western game developers implement this propaganda filled garbage to create the picture their own heads are filled with.

    Go on any video game and pick up a russian designed weapon you will notice that the weapon has rust on it, lot of scratches to show its worn out, has always less accuracy then any pumpgun and visors are always dirty, uncleaned and bad designed with fat marks that cover half the target and make it horrible to use. That is not exception but general things western companies implement to keep the line of "russia old rusted junk" politics, be it on purpose with full knowledge of truth or just because they have already reached the 3rd generation where they believe everything and just repeat it as they see it, it does not matter that is something that is done on purpose.

    All western weapons are most off the time highly accurate, very low recoil, highly polished, no scratches or dirt on scopes to give them a better look, more modern, not worn out. That is subtile propaganda that is constantly used in Hoolywood and videogame industry.

    Same thing with this, they have no jack shit idea of russian equipment and do not even care that is why they have "self-made explosives" and not military degree explosives, which are russians are known to have highly sophisticated stuff for almost every imaginable job.

    Which is why Battlefield 4 even with all its money grubbing still managed to slightly impress me with  their balanced take on all of the weapons implemented... Their last gun package update contained three Russian weapons (two of them very obscure in Western circles) and only one Western, which was British at that. Also the RU soldier's VDV gear is the most badass of the lot in my opinion.  

    Also the best gun in the game is hands down the AEK-971.

    So it can be done...

    This representation of GRU/FSB Spetznas (they probably don't even know themselves) or whatever is so ludicrous I think there was probably interest money behind it.

    Well they indeed have managed to have some good features for the russians. The russians in BF4 have as the only faction good camoflauge that actually matches real camoflauge as a whole, not like the americans with camoflauge while running with completley different camo BP vest which breaks the camoflauge effect as whole. Duct tape on helmets, BP vest and sometimes white markings on a dark camoflauge is not really the best. I know duct tape is used like in real life to write down names on the backside of helmets so comerades know who is infront of them and so on but it is handled rather poor in comparision to how it used in reality. Also BF4 still has that horrible stereotypes of subtile propaganda, almost every russian visor is dirty even on tanks, they have dirt all over their sights, rust here and there and almost nothing is smooth surface while complete opposite is true for US. The other thing is that broke the entire gameplay to me is that Mi-28 since BF3 was a brick in air, while all other vehicles Z-10 vs AH-1Z in BF4 have no significant difference in flight characteristics. You can see such stereotypes abused in most games especially in CoD, a horde of russian soldiers an evil empire that managed to enslave entire humanity, but one fucking american average soldier manages to repell the entire Soviet Russian army. RPG's never fly straight they spiral like a Atak missile on steroids, guns have more rust on them then they have wood which is just another subtle propaganda that indicates backwardedness, even tho wooden stocks are preferable by soldiers choice over plastic. Lot of such things are seen in majority of games such bias that is hard to be ignored.
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    Re: Common Lies, Russophobia, Nonsense on Russia:

    Post  George1 on Mon Nov 09, 2015 12:49 pm

    Bravery of Soviet Soldiers Who Freed Poland Incontestable - Lech Walesa

    Former President of Poland Lech Walesa said that bravery of Soviet soldiers in liberating Poland from the Nazis, is incontestable.

    GDANSK (Poland) (Sputnik) – The bravery of Soviet soldiers in liberating Poland from the Nazis, is incontestable, former President of Poland Lech Walesa said.

    "Poles have no complaints against the [Soviet] soldiers. Soviet soldiers had been perishing and freeing Poland. This is all true," Walesa told RIA Novosti in an interview, adding that the desecration of monuments to Soviet servicemen is not normal.

    Warsaw has complaints against Soviet leaders, not its people, he added.

    "Everything is ok with Russian people but Russians have no luck with their leaders. After all, Russian people also paid a high price for communism," Walesa added.

    Moscow has repeatedly protested the demolition and dismantling of Soviet monuments in Poland in recent months.

    In September, Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova announced that Russia demanded that Poland implement measures to stop the destruction of Soviet monuments.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20151109/1029809567/soviet-soldiers-poland.html#ixzz3qzgXNt16


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    Re: Common Lies, Russophobia, Nonsense on Russia:

    Post  Werewolf on Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:47 am

    I don't feel that a new thread is necessary but there are some myths that have no direct connections to russian military or history but tangle indirectly to it and i will post them here in same manner like before. Would urge others to do aswell.

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