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    Russian Ground Forces: News #2

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    magnumcromagnon
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    Re: Russian Ground Forces: News #2

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:22 am

    Werewolf wrote:I have served for 4 years with HK G36 and the magazine, well i hate it, the grip is ok but compared with G3 grip or the AK-74M grip i find it better and the buttstock, let me put it this way 1 year and you need a new one. I've worked in ordanance and the average time in just a recruiting base for G-36 was 4 years and after that it had to be send back to HK to exchange it for a new one. To good that AEK and AK are not entirely made of plastic like G-36.

    Yes, I've also heard for years now that the G-36 also has problems with heat build up and accuracy degradation, would you mind speaking and clarifying about that?

    BTW you briefly spoke in the past about your experience in the German military (Bundeswehr), it would be nice if you or someone else in the general chat forum would create a thread about interesting military experiences. We could hear interesting stories about the German military from you, Russian military stories from Vladimir, and Dutch military stories from Airbornewolf.
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    Re: Russian Ground Forces: News #2

    Post  Mike E on Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:26 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:I have served for 4 years with HK G36 and the magazine, well i hate it, the grip is ok but compared with G3 grip or the AK-74M grip i find it better and the buttstock, let me put it this way 1 year and you need a new one. I've worked in ordanance and the average time in just a recruiting base for G-36 was 4 years and after that it had to be send back to HK to exchange it for a new one. To good that AEK and AK are not entirely made of plastic like G-36.

    Yes, I've also heard for years now that the G-36 also has problems with heat build up and accuracy degradation, would you mind speaking and clarifying about that?

    BTW you briefly spoke in the past about your experience in the German military (Bundeswehr), it would be nice if you or someone else in the general chat forum would create a thread about interesting military experiences. We could hear interesting stories about the German military from you, Russian military stories from Vladimir, and Dutch military stories from Airbornewolf.

    I don't want to pressure you Werewolf, but I'd like to see that as well.
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    Re: Russian Ground Forces: News #2

    Post  Werewolf on Thu Aug 21, 2014 4:11 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:I have served for 4 years with HK G36 and the magazine, well i hate it, the grip is ok but compared with G3 grip or the AK-74M grip i find it better and the buttstock, let me put it this way 1 year and you need a new one. I've worked in ordanance and the average time in just a recruiting base for G-36 was 4 years and after that it had to be send back to HK to exchange it for a new one. To good that AEK and AK are not entirely made of plastic like G-36.

    Yes, I've also heard for years now that the G-36 also has problems with heat build up and accuracy degradation, would you mind speaking and clarifying about that?

    BTW you briefly spoke in the past about your experience in the German military (Bundeswehr), it would be nice if you or someone else in the general chat forum would create a thread about interesting military experiences. We could hear interesting stories about the German military from you, Russian military stories from Vladimir, and Dutch military stories from Airbornewolf.

    The thing with the heat build up is a real problem. I've shot several weapons, G36,AK47,M16,SIG 550, MG3 but without doubt the G36 has some serious problems with heat build up i noticed it during shooting exercises on military shooting range where every shooter had 15 rounds for exercises to shoot and about 2 minutes cool time for weapon in between and i was 5th in line meaning the weapon has shot 4x15 rounds =60 rounds untill i was on turn. You could barely hold the weapon on the handguard without using gloves it was pretty hot. After roughly one hour 2 G-36s were switched for 2 fresh rifles and had to cool down for one hour untill they had to be switched again. After a while it was again my turn to shoot same exercise and this time the supervision which teaches/supervise so you don't do something stupid, give the order to use gloves or otherwise you would get burned from the air cooling holes at the bottom of the handguard, just because the heat was radiating from the barrel due those air cooling holes. Had not experienced such heat build up even with MG3 after 300 rounds.

    Regarding the acuracy degradation that is also kind an issue. The weapon is hell of accurate when it is zeroed but after few hours on shooting range after heat build up, the weapon losses some of its accuracy. Not much but enough to notice it. The real problem about the accuracy degradation is that the entire weapon is nothing but plastic except the barrel,gun lock and gas operating realoding mechanism the rest is pure plastic. Dropping he gun even a few centimeters or when not paying enough attention and striking it even barely against any object and the accuracy is reduced significant.

    There are some other problems especially as a private working in ordonance you are often forced to clean all the weapons after those arrogant officer candidates bring back rifles and their officers are giving some shitty excuses not to let the recruites clean their own weapons. And in my life time i've cleaned over ten thousand G36s and i can tell you the inners of the reciever are so tight constructed and there are gun lock leading edges made of plastic and after a while they getting pretty sharp for plastic and if you don't pay enough attention you litterly can cut into your finger. Really crappy to clean, but from what i heared about SiG 550 there are at least two times bitchier to clean.

    Overall not a bad weapon but majority of people who served with it and with G3 would favor it any day, me included.

    It has two optics build in it, actually pretty neat, but the Reflex visior which was actually invented to fasten the target acquisition, but on G36 the red dot sight is so small it terminates the entire idea of fast acquisition. But except for the small visior it works pretty fine. The magazines i also dislike the overall strentgh of the plastic is ok, but the little magazine to magazine attachment function is so weak that it breaks quite often and have to send magazines back just because this little plastic made catch.
    Usually in lot of militaries they teach to use weapon as a tool to step on to help comerades to climp a wall or obstacles, it is ok for a 60kg women with 10kg equipment it does not break so often, but for average man with 80-85kg +10-20kg the folding buttstock and folding lock mechanism breaks immidiatley. So not the best quality.
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    Re: Russian Ground Forces: News #2

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:01 am

    ^^^Thanks, will +1 when I have the opportunity.



    BTW, new secure communication system 'P-430' with apparently no analogues. Here's some key points:

    - Extreme ECM resistance with unique anti-jamming modes

    - VHF band, Satellite navigation (GLONASS/GPS)

    - 1,500 km range

    - Can be mounted on a wide range of wheeled (Typhoon, Tigr, Boomerang) and Tracked  vehicles (Kurganets, Armata, probably even Vityaz ATV).

    - Functionality from modularity, different communication set up for different purposes, while still maintaining high commonality.

    - Successfully passed state tests, most likely will be inducted.


    Holding DIC has developed a new range of secure communications for the Army
    Which has no analogues in Russian system presented at "Oboronekspo 2014»



    The exhibition "Oboronekspo 2014" instrument-United Corporation (DIC) has demonstrated a new complex of the P-430, consisting of field pomehozashchishchennyh multidirectional digital microwave radios. The complex, which has no analogues in Russia, developed by the group "Constellation".

    The unique system is designed for all levels of management of the armed forces and is able to operate reliably under enemy electronic countermeasures. The complex provides the deployment of networks and communication lines of up to 1,500 km with an interval of 40-50 km. P-430 can be mounted on an armored car and the base of the wheeled and tracked chassis, as well as stationary objects communication.

    "The uniqueness of the complex is provided by full-time job in the anti-jamming modes - unlike analog and digital radio stations, - said the director of the Department of Joint instrument-making corporation Alexander Kalinin. - Here is the whole set of tools applied exploration and immunity and provide results that are either not fully implemented in the other stations, or do they lack. "

    Within each relay station are satellite navigation (GLONASS, GPS), VHF radio service communications, as well as night-vision goggles. The complex P-430 has enhanced functionality and features through the use of new methods of encoding the signals, simultaneous dual-band frequencies, the use of anti-jamming modes and the use of rapidly deployable antenna support.

    Composition of communications equipment may vary depending on the functional purpose station. Base - Front channeling, power supply system, life support system, navigation system - in all versions is the same type.

    "This construction principle allows to increase the degree of commonality of products gives you the opportunity to complete a station on the basis of a set of necessary blocks" - says chief designer Ivan Malyshev.

    According to the designer, the complex has successfully passed the state tests, which resulted in the conclusion that this is the only real-life military domestic noise-free complex.

    P-430 system soon may become the basic equipment including digital noise-relay communication for all branches of the armed forces and law enforcement agencies of the Russian Federation.


    http://rostec.ru/news/4514303

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    Re: Russian Ground Forces: News #2

    Post  Austin on Thu Aug 21, 2014 9:46 am

    Interview Andrei Zverev, General Director of JSC "Russian electronics"  ( In Russian use Translator )

    Development of the Russian military electronics

    http://www.echo.msk.ru/programs/arsenal/1381752-echo/
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    Re: Russian Ground Forces: News #2

    Post  GarryB on Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:04 am

    I don't know what it is about the AEK rifle... perhaps it just looks too H&K... too plastic.

    The very large images on the previous page clearly show not very good wielding/alignment/finish on the buttstock... look at the second photo...


    It clearly has an adjustable length stock that one presumes fully retracts, but also equally clearly it has the fixed cocking handle of the AK, rear mounted peep iron sight and rails for mounting stuff, but otherwise it is just the same old same old... nothing revolutionary at all.

    The balanced recoil mechanism would be useful in burst fire but for real accuracy I would suggest single shot would be the chosen method of fire anyway.

    If the balanced recoil mechanism is the only thing in question then the AK12 could be based on the AK-107 instead of the AK-74M and you get the best of both worlds...


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    Re: Russian Ground Forces: News #2

    Post  Austin on Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:19 am

    They simply cant add balance recoil mechanish midway to AK-12 design they will have to change the design.

    Here is what Khathi told me at mp.net about AEK-971 advantage over AK-12 
    http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/printthread.php?t=197506&pp=40&page=201


    The main one is that AEK manages to keep the high-energy action of the AK family (which is largely responsible for its legendary reliability) while doing away the infamous AK kick due to its balanced action. This alone improves the rifle's accuracy almost twofold. AK-12, which doesn't have the balanced action, was, reportedly, approaching the accuracy task by reducing the moving parts energy, which indeed improved accuracy, but greatly reduced the dirt resistance — note that it's only the rumor. Then there are scores of ergonomics and usability improvements — basically, take everything what was hyped about AK-12, and add it to ZiD's design, but it's quite obviously more systematic and thought through, compared to the AK-12's rather haphazard appearance. And their new plastic lower finally features the more or less functional magwell — which AK-12 still lacks.


    I think its easy for AEK-971S to get AK-12 like feature but for AK-12 to get other way round would mean redesign
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    Re: Russian Ground Forces: News #2

    Post  Werewolf on Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:23 am

    I think so, too.

    The AEK-971/973 is a great design, they just should scrap the entire low quality H&K style nonsense and adopt the AK12 ergonomics, would not cost much actually would be even cheaper to have AK12 ergonomics on AEK971/973 instead of this fimsy HK crap that would be horrible to maintain.

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    Re: Russian Ground Forces: News #2

    Post  Austin on Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:31 am

    It would be great if they can keep both in for the army , and it would have good export market for AK-12 and AEK-971S.

    Both are good design in their own right.
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    Re: Russian Ground Forces: News #2

    Post  Werewolf on Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:34 am

    That is the most probable future, that russia buys both giving soldiers chance to gather experience with other weapons but also keeping long traditional and reliable weapon and company a life.

    Both weapons are worth and would be great to see both in action and service.
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    Re: Russian Ground Forces: News #2

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Aug 21, 2014 3:36 pm

    Austin wrote:It would be great if they can keep both in for the army , and it would have good export market for AK-12 and AEK-971S.

    Both are good design in their own right.

    This is what I've been saying, if they both passed state tests  then why not just induct both in to service? It's not like they're inducting new littoral ships where logistics is a major factor, their just rifles so let the soldier ultimately decide.
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    Re: Russian Ground Forces: News #2

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Aug 21, 2014 3:38 pm

    Austin wrote:They simply cant add balance recoil mechanish midway to AK-12 design they will have to change the design.

    Here is what Khathi told me at mp.net about AEK-971 advantage over AK-12 
    http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/printthread.php?t=197506&pp=40&page=201


    The main one is that AEK manages to keep the high-energy action of the AK family (which is largely responsible for its legendary reliability) while doing away the infamous AK kick due to its balanced action. This alone improves the rifle's accuracy almost twofold. AK-12, which doesn't have the balanced action, was, reportedly, approaching the accuracy task by reducing the moving parts energy, which indeed improved accuracy, but greatly reduced the dirt resistance — note that it's only the rumor. Then there are scores of ergonomics and usability improvements — basically, take everything what was hyped about AK-12, and add it to ZiD's design, but it's quite obviously more systematic and thought through, compared to the AK-12's rather haphazard appearance. And their new plastic lower finally features the more or less functional magwell — which AK-12 still lacks.


    I think its easy for AEK-971S to get AK-12 like feature but for AK-12 to get other way round would mean redesign

    But they both passed state tests, so the reliability question for either rifle is already been addressed.

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    Re: Russian Ground Forces: News #2

    Post  Austin on Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:56 pm

    JANES

    Russian MoD to acquire large batch of GAZ-3344 ATVs

    Russia 'to double' size of airborne forces
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    Re: Russian Ground Forces: News #2

    Post  Mike E on Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:11 pm

    - Sweet! Those are some cool "ATVs"...
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    Re: Russian Ground Forces: News #2

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:13 pm

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    Re: Russian Ground Forces: News #2

    Post  GarryB on Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:33 pm

    I think its easy for AEK-971S to get AK-12 like feature but for AK-12 to get other way round would mean redesign

    Wouldn't changing both designs require a redesign?

    Kalashnikov has already developed the balanced recoil AK-108 and AK-107... how hard would it be to simply apply the AK12 changes made to the AK-74M to the AK-107?

    I would expect not very hard at all.

    We have all seen footage of the AK12 being fired and recoil really does not seem excessive.

    Personally I would like to see the AK12 and the ADS enter service as standard weapons in the Russian Military. The AEK could be used by MVD and police units and perhaps some special forces units.


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    Re: Russian Ground Forces: News #2

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Fri Aug 22, 2014 2:49 pm

    GarryB wrote:Wouldn't changing both designs require a redesign?

    Kalashnikov has already developed the balanced recoil AK-108 and AK-107... how hard would it be to simply apply the AK12 changes made to the AK-74M to the AK-107?

    I would expect not very hard at all.

    We have all seen footage of the AK12 being fired and recoil really does not seem excessive.

    Personally I would like to see the AK12 and the ADS enter service as standard weapons in the Russian Military. The AEK could be used by MVD and police units and perhaps some special forces units.

    This is exactly the same position that I advanced., AK-12 for widespread service, AEK for internal security. Just like you said, AEK does not a monopoly on the balanced recoil system, the AK-107 has one, but considering the AK-12 manages significant  recoil reduction without using the balanced recoil system is more impressive...which means that if Kalashnikov Concern decides to put out another AK-12 design that includes the balanced recoil system, that it's recoil may'be reduced by yet another significant margin! BTW for the people who have forgotten, here's a video showcasing the AK-12 firing at full auto, showing a significant reduction in recoil:

    ...At 5:00 minutes in full auto fire


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    Re: Russian Ground Forces: News #2

    Post  Austin on Sat Aug 23, 2014 6:42 pm

    More details on new Man Portable Willow SAM


    New portable air defense missile system "Willow" began to enter the Russian Army




    MOSCOW, August 22. (ARMS-TASS). In the Russian army began to enter a new portable air defense systems (MANPADS), "Willow". About this ARMS-TASS reported today in Kolomna Research and Production Corporation "KBM" (MSC), which was created by the new weapons.
    According to the representative of MSC, in the moment, "Willow" is already armed Airborne Division and motorized infantry brigade of the Eastern District.


    On their tactical and technical characteristics of the complex 9K333 "Willow" is superior to all existing in the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation MANPADS: 9K310 "Igla-1" 9K38 "Igla" 9K338 "Igla-S", as well as their foreign counterparts - the American "Stinger unit -1 'and Chinese QW-2.


    As explained in the company-developer of the complex, "Willow" - a new generation MANPADS, improved performance is based on the use of a fundamentally new trehspektralnoy homing (for "Needle-S" - dvuhspektralnaya) and a new instrument compartment. Had increased the sensitivity of the GOS increased its immunity. As a result, significantly expanded the affected area goals and increased efficiency of the complex at long range.


    One of the main advantages of "Willow" - high probability of defeat maloizluchayuschih targets like cruise missiles and unmanned aerial vehicles, said the representative of MSC. These are the flying objects that are difficult to detect, but even more difficult to bring down.


    "In combat effectiveness in the world is set equal to" recruit ", - said the representative of MSC.


    The composition of MANPADS "Willow" includes: 9M336 missile, trigger 9P521, ground radar interrogator "- another's" 1L229V, mobile checkpoint 9V861, compact radar detector 1L122, 9S931 planning module, the module exploration and management 9S932-1, portable control module 9S933 fire (in the brigade included), built-in mounting kit 9S933-1 (on the division included) set automation gunners 9S935, training aids.


    Significantly improved quality, reliability complex, simplify maintenance. There is no need to conduct periodic checks of the troops with cooling GOS nitrogen. This made it possible to abandon the additional equipment, storage of nitrogen, save manpower.


    At the same time maintain a high continuity with previous MANPADS of the combat operation, operation, maintenance and training.


    Kolomenskoye MSC entered into a long-term contract with the Ministry of Defense for the supply of "Willow" and launched a full-scale production of the new MANPADS.
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    Re: Russian Ground Forces: News #2

    Post  zg18 on Sun Aug 24, 2014 12:39 am









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    Re: Russian Ground Forces: News #2

    Post  Cpt Caz on Sun Aug 24, 2014 1:25 am

    76th Division, correct? Interesting that in these photos none of them are wearing ballistic vests
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    Re: Russian Ground Forces: News #2

    Post  GarryB on Sun Aug 24, 2014 12:05 pm

    Aren't those load bearing vests ballistic?


    And:


    As explained in the company-developer of the complex, "Willow" - a new generation MANPADS, improved performance is based on the use of a fundamentally new trehspektralnoy homing (for "Needle-S" - dvuhspektralnaya) and a new instrument compartment.

    "fundamentally new three spectrum homing (seeker)."

    "for "Needle-S" - Dual Spectrum (Seeker)"


    Significantly improved quality, reliability complex, simplify maintenance. There is no need to conduct periodic checks of the troops with cooling GOS nitrogen. This made it possible to abandon the additional equipment, storage of nitrogen, save manpower.

    The fact that it no longer uses nitrogen cooling and is a three band sensor suggests that Verba (Willow) uses an uncooled QWIP thermal sensor which will make it simpler to maintain and operate and with a longer sensor/detection range.

    As mentioned above this is critical for UAVs which often have a small IR signature to begin with and are more difficult to engage because they tend to fly high and are tough to spot/detect/lock.


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    Re: Russian Ground Forces: News #2

    Post  Cpt Caz on Sun Aug 24, 2014 12:58 pm

    GarryB wrote:Aren't those load bearing vests ballistic?

    No, load bearing equipment doesn't offer ballistic protection, which is why usually its worn over a ballistic vest.

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    Re: Russian Ground Forces: News #2

    Post  Austin on Sun Aug 24, 2014 6:32 pm

    GarryB wrote:Aren't those load bearing vests ballistic?


    And:


    As explained in the company-developer of the complex, "Willow" - a new generation MANPADS, improved performance is based on the use of a fundamentally new trehspektralnoy homing (for "Needle-S" - dvuhspektralnaya) and a new instrument compartment.

    "fundamentally new three spectrum homing (seeker)."

    "for "Needle-S" - Dual Spectrum (Seeker)"


    Significantly improved quality, reliability complex, simplify maintenance. There is no need to conduct periodic checks of the troops with cooling GOS nitrogen. This made it possible to abandon the additional equipment, storage of nitrogen, save manpower.

    The fact that it no longer uses nitrogen cooling and is a three band sensor suggests that Verba (Willow) uses an uncooled QWIP thermal sensor which will make it simpler to maintain and operate and with a longer sensor/detection range.

    As mentioned above this is critical for UAVs which often have a small IR signature to begin with and are more difficult to engage because they tend to fly high and are tough to spot/detect/lock.

    Thanks Garry for clarifying.

    So you mean Verba Seeker is based on QWIP or the targetting sensor of verba is of QWIP of Thermal Type.

    I suspect even the current Igla-S is deadly , I spoke in a defence exhibition to Russian contigent on Igla-S and he mentioned that it was not a digital system and hence not reprogramable on field and cannot deal with newer CM system.

    Verba I would assume is full digital system

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    Re: Russian Ground Forces: News #2

    Post  acatomic on Mon Aug 25, 2014 7:52 pm

    I need a little bit of help in clearifing something

    GarryB wrote:


    Significantly improved quality, reliability complex, simplify maintenance. There is no need to conduct periodic checks of the troops with cooling GOS nitrogen. This made it possible to abandon the additional equipment, storage of nitrogen, save manpower.

    The fact that it no longer uses nitrogen cooling and is a three band sensor suggests that Verba (Willow) uses an uncooled QWIP thermal sensor which will make it simpler to maintain and operate and with a longer sensor/detection range.

    As mentioned above this is critical for UAVs which often have a small IR signature to begin with and are more difficult to engage because they tend to fly high and are tough to spot/detect/lock.

    What about this:

    Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:The missile furthest from the camera, in the first picture, and the one to the left, in the second picture, is claimed to be part of Verba (9K333).

    9M336 is claimed to be the designation for one of the missiles used by Verba.




    On the second picture we have Igla-1, Igla, Igla-S and soposedly Verba. If that's not Verba (on the left) what is it then?

    Thanks.
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    Re: Russian Ground Forces: News #2

    Post  Regular on Tue Aug 26, 2014 1:16 am

    Cpt Caz wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Aren't those load bearing vests ballistic?

    No, load bearing equipment doesn't offer ballistic protection, which is why usually its worn over a ballistic vest.
    Whats the name for the vest? I thought it does have inserts?

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