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    Soviet era MRLS: Grad, Uragan, Smerch

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    AbsoluteZero
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    Soviet era MRLS: Grad, Uragan, Smerch

    Post  AbsoluteZero on Mon May 02, 2011 8:33 am

    Is the new launcher design for the Tornado-G meant to reduce its reloading time? or just to make it cheaper?

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    Re: Soviet era MRLS: Grad, Uragan, Smerch

    Post  GarryB on Mon May 02, 2011 9:41 am

    I haven't seen the advertising, but in the current structure the Grad is the light, cheap numbers launcher that is mobile and good enough for most tasks.

    The Tornado seems to be a direct replacement for the Grad in that it is a modern light cheap vehicle.

    It will be more flexible and capable than Grad however because it can carry 122mm, 220mm, or 300mm rocket pallets that are preloaded so reloading should only take a few minutes compared with hand loading 40 rockets that would take longer.

    It can clearly carry a single pallet with 6 x 300mm rockets but the size and shape of 122mm rocket pallets or 220mm rocket pallets is unknown.

    The larger vehicle based on the truck used for the Iskander/Tender system can carry two pallets so that means it matches the Smerch vehicles performance of 12 x 300mm rockets but I'd assume it could also be used to fire 122mm rockets and 220mm rockets too.

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    Re: Soviet era MRLS: Grad, Uragan, Smerch

    Post  Flanky on Tue May 03, 2011 2:39 am

    IronsightSniper wrote:
    But like I've said, the M270 won't be the same distance from the Smerch, it'd be farther from the Smerch than the Smerch can fire from. Thus the Smerch becomes useless. I've also stated that you can fit 3 configurations for the M270, 12 rockets, 2 missiles, or 6 rockets and 1 missile. Jack of all trades, it is, kill a Grad, bomb the Smerch, safe from all BM-series. Like I've said, Russia will not use Smerch or Tender if a Chinese tank rush occurs in Far Eastern Siberia. They'd use Tornado and it's rapid reload capability to spam guided AT munitions in and around where the Chinese tanks are. That rapid reload capability is something the BM-series nor the Tochka/Tender has, but the M270 does have. The M270 is like a Swiss knife and the BM-series/Tochka/Tender are like everything in it. Multi-purpose, flexible, gold-plated tube arty; but still best arty.

    Dear Ironsight < MLRS or Multiple Launch ROCKET System is a system launching ROCKETS to bring destruction to a remote location in an aerial manner. It is not a point precision weapon. As said you can't use a shotgun to hit a target one and half kilometer away. For that you have sniper rifle. And when it comes to costs. The total cost of ownership is what matters. And TCS include not just the unit price, ammo price and maintenance price. You forgot one veeery important expense and that is DEVELOPMENT price. Previously US Army was using lance and pership weapons as surface to surface precision missiles. In USSR it was Tochka system. Nowadays your army have got a briliant idea of converting an MLRS M270 into a precision weapon. While in Russia Tochka was upgraded and developed into nearly similar missile system with greatly enhanced capabilities called Iskander or previously reffered to as Tender. Can you imagine the development cost of a missile with the size of Lance and its capabilities to fit the M270 launching rail? I can tell you the development costs were several times higher than the costs of developing iskander from tochka, which are nearly the same systems except the updated navigation systems, fcs and missile engine. Im not counting the vehicle chasis as this was not developed for this system rather reused just like the m270 wich was derived from bradley. If you count in the development costs into equation suddenly the combination of Tender and BM-30 Smerch is becomming more efficient.

    Now lets compare the BM-30 and MLRS systems without any other units additional support shall we? MLRS system without netcentric warfare is absolutely blind system. It needs an input from other units regarding its targets. This is not the case for BM-30 Smerch which can launch its UAV rocket to scan the possible presence area for targets and then launch a surprise attack INDEPENDENTLY from any other unit. This alone is a huge plus for Smerch. As far as i know the ATACMS needs a coordinates of the target, it cannot be launched completely blindly because it does not have a seeker head to use in terminal homing phase. Correct me if im wrong. Now m270 being multipurpose might not be a bad thing from the perspective of cost. In the enviroment of american military industrial complex it is certainly a more cost efficient option than having 2 separate systems. However compared to Russian or Chinese cost of work, when Russia have 2 independent systems for 2 completely separate tasks - the chances are that the Russian solution will be still muuuch more cheaper than the american one. Remember the T-90 is half the price of abrams, or a Vikhr ATGM missile is 1/8 of the price of Hellfire and when fired in a double shot - meaning 2 vikhrs at once against abrams is a overkill for 1/4 the price of hellfire. Those are facts. Now lets get into warhead types. Lets skip the rocket type warheads as we all know most of them. ATACMS missile have very limited types of warheads: Submunitions and HE warhead - again correct me if im wrong. The Iskander/Tender missile system have besides tactical nuclear warheads have HE fragmentation, submunition, dedicated bunker penetrator, fuel-air explosive, ELECTROMAGNETIC PULSE yes EMP warhead. With the ECM and homing seeker capabilities of this system which can easily penetrate most modern american airdefense system both land based and naval based - i can clearly see the multipurpose manner of this system way beyond m270. Because in a warfare scenario america would need beside m270 to deploy atleast one additional system for coastal defense. Russia does not need to as the Iskander missiles DO have terminal homing seekers optical. Thus these missiles can hit also moving targets - we can speculate about the size of an target but taking into consideration the state of the art seekers technology in Russia, i have no doubt they could be used to sink incomming landing barges or air cushion ships, let alone the floating docs ships or any other escort vessel within 480 km range using navy SAT recon. Now thats what i call effectiveness. When EMP warhead would be utilized several units normally out of submunitions range would be destroyed as well including at grater range more sensitive radar units - in USA you would need to call in airforce with SEAD aircrafts and AGM-88, so again effectiveness of such system is dramatically rising. Now as Garry have pointed out previously, there is a KUB missile variant surface to surface that is easily interchangable and yet the operational is even more extended. If you'll take into consideration all this, the mathematics is very easy when you can see the Smersh system being capable to destroy land units as normal MLRS system while Iskander missile system will take care of ships, communication hubs, weapon storage facilities, HQs from much greater distance than any ATACMS missile would be capable of - providing it would pass the airdefenses which in current state of the art Russian air defens units i HIGLY doubt.
    Now when it comes to mobility. Ok the M270 is slightly faster at reloading times and it can go offroad better because of its caterpilar tracks. However the Russian wheeled chasis have better operational range, grater speed at roads and lat but not least are much more simple to maintain. In a warfare scenarion if M270 would manage to destroy the BM-30 Smerch, the moment of launch Russian artilerry radar or air defense unit would detect the rockets or missiles fired and it would mark the area as possible enemy artilery unit placement. If Iskander missile would be fired and M270 would move, that doesn't matter because the Iskander can be re-targeted in flight, even by UAV and it ould eventually hit the moving M270 anyway.... result?
    Russia lost MLRS capability, USA lost MLRS capability + precision missile strike capability. So i dare to ask whats more efficient?


    Overall sometimes there is a reason why we are using a kinfe AND a fork rather than using fork alone.
    And as such in the role of MLRS the BM-30 Smersh greatly outperforms the M270 MLRS and as such in the role of point precision missile strike system the Iskander is unrivalled.
    Currently there is a development of another Iskander variant launching cruise missiles with a range of thousands of killometers.[/quote]

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    Re: Soviet era MRLS: Grad, Uragan, Smerch

    Post  GarryB on Tue May 03, 2011 9:45 am

    Nice to see I was not the only one thinking this.

    The M270 is not a bad system for the US Army and it suits their way of doing things and their way of fighting wars.

    The reality is that the M270 works best in a net centric environment with air superiority and an air force and air units that can find targets.

    The Smerch et al is probably the best in their class for the original purpose of the systems... which is to flood an area with HE in a very short time so there is not time to find cover and survive.

    Currently there is a development of another Iskander variant launching cruise missiles with a range of thousands of killometers.

    They would need to withdraw from the INF treaty to deploy such a weapon, but if the ABM treaty is a cold war dinosaur then the INF treaty could probably be argued to be the same.

    Withdrawl from the INF treaty would mean instead of targeting Chinese and European and Middle Eastern targets with ICBMs with flight ranges of 10,000km or more they can use much smaller missiles with flight ranges of 2,500-5,000 km which will be cheaper and more efficent.

    (Note Iskander is the export missile, with the latest model called Iskander-M. In Russian service this weapon is called Tender... but new reports describe it by its export name... just as with the Yakhont and Brahmos, the Yakhont was a reduced range model designed for export, the missile the Russians use is called Onix or Onyx depending on the translation which is a type of precious stone or Jewel. The real Yakhont is limited by export restrictions on guided weapons, whereas the Onix is for Russian use and has no such restrictions.)

    I have heard of a new model of the Smerch that uses wings to extend the glide range to 120-150km without increasing weight.

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    Re: Soviet era MRLS: Grad, Uragan, Smerch

    Post  AbsoluteZero on Tue May 03, 2011 10:22 am


    They would need to withdraw from the INF treaty to deploy such a weapon, but if the ABM treaty is a cold war dinosaur then the INF treaty could probably be argued to be the same.

    didn't Vladimir Putin hinted in 2007 that Russia would eventually withdraw from the treaty? or was he just using this as a bargaining chip to make the U.S. think twice about its planned ABM system in Europe? But if the Americans decided to go ahead with their European ABM deployment I dont see any reason why Russia should continue its participation with the INF treaty. Besides, other emerging powers like China and India are beginning to invest in such systems.

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    MLRS vs Smerch

    Post  GarryB on Tue May 03, 2011 11:01 am

    I think part of the argument to withdraw from the INF treaty was that because France and Germany and the UK are not bound by it there is little to stop NATO or China from putting any sort of intermediate range missile on Russias border.

    I also think the Russian MIC knows missiles in the 500-5,500km range bracket would sell very well internationally.

    The US has its own problems and is not interested in developing new missiles in that range to point specifically at Russia, so the actual threat it defends is largely non existent anyway.

    The largest short range threat to Russia would be a US or NATO SSBN in the Med and the INF treaty does nothing about that.

    BTW my apologies for dragging this thread well off topic... my bad. Embarassed

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    Grad, Uragan, Smerch MRLS

    Post  Vann7 on Sun Feb 02, 2014 7:03 pm

    There was a topic some time ago comparing rockets and missiles effectiveness
    in combat and accuracy. In the discussion one westerner believed  ..

    that M270 is better than Smerch ?    
    and that ATACMS was better than ISKANDER?   Shocked

    that is

    M270> Smerch??
    ATACMS > Iskanders.????????????????????????  


    I think his major problem was that he had the misconception that
    GPS guidance + inertial guidance = Very Accurate.  (Aside that also western brainwashed media always show western hardware as unique and unstoppable even if there are better technology in other places).  And that couldn't be more far far from the truth. Actually that is mediocre accuracy at long ranges. The only thing worse is Not having a missile to use at all. Such kind of missiles are far from ideal for long range strategic tactical bombing. Only better use attack in big Zones with concentration of military troops. NATO use their Airforce primary for tactical precision bombing ,specially near civilian zones ,and its navy using cruise missiles but with some limitations and less accuracy . For real accuracy and tactical Bombing you need Missiles or Rockets that have some kind of manual encrypted Radio/TV remote guidance with active homing ,infra Red seekers or radar sensors ,Electronic Optics or laser guidance on its terminal phase and that the rockets or missile have advanced internal mechanical mobility.

    he also assumed the M270 was better logistically than smerch + Iskander ,
    because it could launch not only rocket artillery but also the Big ATACMS ballistic missiles.
    What he ignored is that the M270 launcher can do only one at a time..but not both. It cant carry
    rocket artillery and ATACMS at the same time. So in the end ,you also end with two vehicles . Only advantage or reusing a launcher is repairs cost and training.

    lets see what kind of "Accuracy'' the ATACMS got when used in AFganistan by the US army,
    from their Latest HIMARS (light wheeled version of the M270 launchers) on combat use..



    "On February 14, 2010, the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) for Afghanistan indicated in a press release
    that it was thought that two rockets fired from a HIMARS ... fell 300 meters short of their intended target and killed 12 civilians during Operation Moshtarak ''


    This clearly show that US latest conventional ballistic missiles are not any better than the Scuds in the IRAQ war that Sadam Used for its terrible accuracy. So is no surprise that in the IRAQ war.. NATO depended a lot of its Airforce for tactical bombing ,because their Tomahawks were not ideal for bombing in cities near civilians zones.

    The interesting thing here is that the accuracy system of the ATACMS is exactly the same system used for US rocket guided artillery in their M-270 system ,That is Inertial Guidance + GPS.  There is also another problem that comes from such kind of guidance ,and is called Electronic Counter Measures. In the First Gulf War for example ,IRAQ bought Russian Jammers  ,that effectively blinded the first generations of Tomahawks cruise missiles,making them to either fall on civilians centers or totally miss IRAQ and fly towards neighboring countries.  Shocked  Russian Electronic COunter measures is something that was  mentioned by the American Media during the war but denied by Pentagon generals as having any relevance in the conflict decades ago ,but today the story is a different one.



    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/MID-01-031013.html

    For long range tactical precision land attacks ,any missile or Rocket that rely on GPS guidance + inertial nav only ,without any defenses to modern counter measure or Jamming not only lacks precision but is totally useless.such kind of missile will miss a Baseball stadium if programmed to target it ,with a signal loss for more than 30 seconds.
     

    Interestingly the experimental XM29 SADARM ,never went into production. Not mentioned the reasons but not
    hard to imagine why.. didn't worked. here is another important info about M270 ..from wiki

    A Block II variant (initially designated MGM-140C or, previously, M39A3[5]) was designed to carry a payload of 13 [Brilliant Anti-Tank (BAT) munitions manufactured by Northrop Grumman. However, in late 2003 the U.S. Army terminated the funding for the BAT-equipped ATACMS and therefore the MGM-164A never became fully operational.


    All said ,looks clearly that both M-270 and ATACMS are clearly inferior in every way ,shape or form to any Russian Comparable system.its Big Ballistic missile ATACMS are more comparable with a Scud B with a bit better precision. ballistic missile like the ones Sadam Hussein Used in IRAQ war.  Upgraded SCUD-D that some third world nations have ,apparently have a TV guidance and with a claimed precision of ~50 meters.. iskanders with a ~500km range can pinpoint targets with up to ~5 meters accuracy.that is by any Standard a direct hit ,when is a missile intended for Big Sam positions ,military bases or Buildings. Smile 

    Here is what wiki says about Iskander Combat performance in Russia vs Georgian war in 2008..

    According to the Moscow Centre for Strategy and Technology Analysis, the Iskander-M system was combat-tested in the 2008 South Ossetia war with Georgia and it proved highly effective in destroying military targets and infrastructure. ... the Moscow Defense Brief stated that an Iskander missile was used for a high precision strike on the Georgian  Separate Tank Battalion base in Gori, destroying 28 tanks. Russian officials have denied using of the Iskander missile against Georgia [civilians] ,but official reports testify to the high effectiveness of the Iskander missiles, as one of the most devastating and accurate weapons in the Russian arsenal. The Dutch government's investigation claims that a single, 5 mm fragment from an anti-personnel sub-munition, that was propelled by an Iskander missile, killed Dutch journalist Stan Storimans in Gori, which was home to various military targets and had been almost completely evacuated before the bombardment.

    Smerch are truly Fantastic , and there is nothing US and perhaps Europe NATO? that competes with that or come close...
    with the capabilities and functionality of a Smerch missile. capable of direct hits to tanks or any armored vehicle at 90km distances. And even apparently can fire Rockets with Unmanned Drones inside with a video camera control..for direct attacks
    on any place you need. Perhaps with the mini drone and video camera it could be possible to more easily attack moving targets?

    here is a video..



    About Iskander.. simply i don't think NATO have anything like that.. Encrypted Radio and Satellite guidance for its entire trajectory , inertial guidance and Optical automatic homing on its final phase ,hypersonic mach 7.0 missile ,flying near earth space orbit deploying decoys ,Jammers and EMP defenses.. with extreme maneuverability indeed like too much fun in just one missile..  Very Happy 

    The interesting part is that Russia Combine in their exercises both.. Smerch + iskanders for major impact.




    In a real land conventional conflict,the RUssian army will use the combination of ..
    Smerch with 90km range for Area denial and/or Direct hits of enemy armor and tanks And Toshka
    against massive formations groups up to 120km and Iskander for direct hits from up to ~500km.
    Last but not least the army will be move with the highly mobile TORs-ME2/BUks Sams all around multipurpose air defenses.For extreme distances Land/Sea attacks they can also use Kalibr missiles with ECM defenses and active Radar homing up to 3600km. The airforce Role is even more important but was omitted for simplicity of the discussion. But basically Russian Airforce can use same weapons of the army minus the big ballistic missiles.THe following video show a test done with Brahmos multipurpose super sonic cruise missile ( designed by Russian-India) for people to see what kind of accuracy is possible for Russian/india to achieve with their modern cruise missiles at 300km range.


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    Re: Soviet era MRLS: Grad, Uragan, Smerch

    Post  GarryB on Mon Feb 03, 2014 4:17 pm

    And even apparently can fire Rockets with Unmanned Drones inside with a video camera control..for direct attacks
    on any place you need. Perhaps with the mini drone and video camera it could be possible to more easily attack moving targets?

    The UAV will mostly be used for detecting and confirming targets and with their 30 minute loiter time at 120km from the launcher they will likely be used for post attack assessment to decide immediately if another attack is needed and also for post attack assessment.

    Personally I think attaching a laser target marker to one means you could launch one to operate fairly high up with a laser target marker to target fixed and moving targets for laser homing attack munitions and missiles.,.. that could be used against moving targets... and fairly cheaply too.


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    Re: Soviet era MRLS: Grad, Uragan, Smerch

    Post  Vann7 on Tue Feb 04, 2014 7:11 am

    GarryB wrote:
    And even apparently can fire Rockets with Unmanned Drones inside with a video camera control..for direct attacks
    on any place you need. Perhaps with the mini drone and video camera it could be possible to more easily attack moving targets?

    The UAV will mostly be used for detecting and confirming targets and with their 30 minute loiter time at 120km from the launcher they will likely be used for post attack assessment to decide immediately if another attack is needed and also for post attack assessment.

    Personally I think attaching a laser target marker to one means  you could launch one to operate fairly high up with a laser target marker to target fixed and moving targets for laser homing attack munitions and missiles.,.. that could be used against moving targets... and fairly cheaply too.


    Definitively that drone could be very useful to guide the artillery even against moving targets..
    Aside i haven't seen any info on Iskander-K , the new version that can fire cruise missiles , is there any detailed information about the cruise missiles Iskander-K and in what way they are different from Kalibrs.. ?

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    Re: Soviet era MRLS: Grad, Uragan, Smerch

    Post  Zivo on Tue Feb 04, 2014 7:22 am

    Personally I think attaching a laser target marker to one means you could launch one to operate fairly high up with a laser target marker to target fixed and moving targets for laser homing attack munitions and missiles.,.. that could be used against moving targets... and fairly cheaply too.

    Imagine a payload with multiple independently aimed HERMES ATGMs designated to the targets by the UAV.

    Whole armored platoons could be precisely eliminated with very little collateral damage.

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    Re: Soviet era MRLS: Grad, Uragan, Smerch

    Post  GarryB on Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:47 pm

    Aside i haven't seen any info on Iskander-K , the new version that can fire cruise missiles , is there any detailed information about the cruise missiles Iskander-K and in what way they are different from Kalibrs.. ?

    I suspect the Russians have upgraded the Kalibrs in a similar way that they have adapted the Kh-101 and Kh-102... ie the Iskander-K in my opinion likely are much heavier and have a flight range of 5,000km or more.

    If they don't then unless they fly less than 500km they violate the INF treaty on intermediate range missiles, but I suspect they have longer than 5,500km ranges which means they are not bound by the INF treaty.

    The US of course is bleating about them being a violation of the INF treaty:

    http://en.ria.ru/world/20140130/187045403/US-Alleges-Russian-Missile-Treaty-Violation--Report.html


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    Re: Soviet era MRLS: Grad, Uragan, Smerch

    Post  Viktor on Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:29 pm

    Nice  thumbsup lots of info about the Smerch lite

    300mm fighting vehicle 9A52-4 "Smerch" (Lite version)

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    Re: Soviet era MRLS: Grad, Uragan, Smerch

    Post  GarryB on Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:05 pm

    Does that say 120km range?


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    Grad, Uragan, Smerch MRLS

    Post  TR1 on Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:20 pm

    GarryB wrote:Does that say 120km range?

    Indeed.

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    BM-21 Grad a worthy mention

    Post  d_taddei2 on Wed Jul 01, 2015 11:13 am

    Hi all, with the 9A52-4 Tornado now starting replace the BM-21 in Russian service i thought it would be worth a mention of the service the BM-21 has given Russia and various other countries. Although it will still be service for many years to come, with the replacement of it in Russian forces in a few years time the BM-21 will be sent into storage.

    The system yet pretty simple compaired to other systems out there the BM-21 has to be the most produced MLRS system ever(although i might be wrong please correct me if i am) and also must be the most widely used MLRS system in service today. I think reason for this must be down to its simplicity and cost, i am not sure of the exact cost but it must cheapest MLRS system on the market. The system has spawned many copies by other countries with their own various changes, but ultimately the design is the same. The cheap cost allows countries field a decent amount and the system is pretty effective and has a variety of different rockets (not sure if there ever did thermobaric anyone know if they did?). In my eyes this is up there with the likes of the T-55, T-72, BMP-1, BTR 60, Mi-8, Mi-24, Mig 21, Mig 29, which are all iconic and great pieces of equipment which made the soviet army and still to this day have a long legendary legacy. So here's to the BM-21 Grad and it entering the soviet military machine hall of fame.

    If anyone wants to put there thoughts on this it would be great.


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    Re: Soviet era MRLS: Grad, Uragan, Smerch

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:43 pm

    You know you did a good design job when the replacement looks like the article it is replacing...

    On land and at sea the Grad did an excellent job... I am a little surprised there was no air launched model 122mm rocket... well there was a 5 shot 122mm rocket pod but it used an unrelated rocket AFAIK.

    Not particularly accurate... but it didn't need to be...

    Would have been useful for blunting enemy attacks, especially with later models with anti tank submunitions.

    It had a range of payloads and in early models 20km was a decent range, while later models achieved ranges of 36-40km.

    An excellent way of getting large amounts of HE and splinters on an area target rapidly.

    The same characteristic that would have made it ideal to deliver chemical or biological weapons...


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    reply

    Post  d_taddei2 on Wed Jul 01, 2015 10:10 pm

    GarryB wrote:You know you did a good design job when the replacement looks like the article it is replacing...

    On land and at sea the Grad did an excellent job... I am a little surprised there was no air launched model 122mm rocket... well there was a 5 shot 122mm rocket pod but it used an unrelated rocket AFAIK.

    Not particularly accurate... but it didn't need to be...

    Would have been useful for blunting enemy attacks, especially with later models with anti tank submunitions.

    It had a range of payloads and in early models 20km was a decent range, while later models achieved ranges of 36-40km.

    An excellent way of getting large amounts of HE and splinters on an area target rapidly.

    The same characteristic that would have made it ideal to deliver chemical or biological weapons...

    yeah i forgot to mention its uses on navel vessels, and your right the appearance is identical. Even today 36-40km is a pretty decent range when you consider the cost of BM-21 allows you to field more and using shooting and scooting tactics becomes very effective,

    interesting your mention on air launch theory, being totally out of the box, imagine a Russian type AC-130 armed with 40 tube rack on its belly Smile

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    Re: Soviet era MRLS: Grad, Uragan, Smerch

    Post  George1 on Fri Aug 14, 2015 4:02 am

    Russian artillery units to live-fire Grad rocket systems during drills in Urals, Siberia

    Artillery units are expected to use over 10,000 pieces of ammunition, mines, rockets and missiles of all types and classes

    MOSCOW, August 13. /TASS/. Artillery units of Russia’s Central Military District will live-fire Grad and Uragan multiple launch rocket systems at shooting ranges in the Orenburg and Chelyabinsk Regions in the Urals and the Kemerovo Region in southwest Siberia, the district’s press office reported on Thursday.

    Live-firing will be held as part of military drills of the district’s missile and artillery forces, which will also involve units with Iskander tactical missile systems, Tochka-U short-term range ballistic complexes, Msta-S self-propelled howitzers, mortars and anti-tank weapons.

    "Fire will be conducted against full-size targets imitating combat hardware and engineering fortifications," the district’s press office said.

    Artillery units are expected to use over 10,000 pieces of ammunition, mines, rockets and missiles of all types and classes.

    Overall, the exercises will involve more than 5,500 personnel and about 1,200 armaments and pieces of combat hardware.


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    Re: Soviet era MRLS: Grad, Uragan, Smerch

    Post  George1 on Fri Aug 21, 2015 5:35 pm

    Techmash: new MLRS "Uragan-1M" to be accepted in service in Russia


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    Re: Soviet era MRLS: Grad, Uragan, Smerch

    Post  franco on Sat Aug 22, 2015 8:17 am

    George1 wrote:Techmash: new MLRS "Uragan-1M" to be accepted in service in Russia

    The new multiple launch rocket system (MLRS) “Uragan-1M” of a 220 mm caliber is entering service in Russia; its features are full automation and ability to use interchangeable packets of ammunition, First Deputy Director General of “Tecmash” concern (included in “Rostec”) Vladimir Tikhonov told RIA Novosti on Friday.

    The system is being developed by the Tula-located enterprise NPO “Splav” (included in “Tehmash”).

    “The MLRS “Uragan-1M” is entering service in Russia. State tests have been successfully completed. This is a modernization of well-established multiple rocket launchers “Uragan” of the previous generation. The main essence of modernization is the use of interchangeable packages, that is, the system will be bi-caliber, it will be able to use ammunition of a larger caliber”, – said Tikhonov.

    Does "use ammunition of a larger caliber" = 300mm. If so one system could replace both. For shorter ranges 220mm and 300mm for longer ranges. Would be an interesting system if so.

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    Re: Soviet era MRLS: Grad, Uragan, Smerch

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Aug 22, 2015 10:24 am

    franco wrote:
    George1 wrote:Techmash: new MLRS "Uragan-1M" to be accepted in service in Russia

    The new multiple launch rocket system (MLRS) “Uragan-1M” of a 220 mm caliber is entering service in Russia; its features are full automation and ability to use interchangeable packets of ammunition, First Deputy Director General of “Tecmash” concern (included in “Rostec”) Vladimir Tikhonov told RIA Novosti on Friday.

    The system is being developed by the Tula-located enterprise NPO “Splav” (included in “Tehmash”).

    “The MLRS “Uragan-1M” is entering service in Russia. State tests have been successfully completed. This is a modernization of well-established multiple rocket launchers “Uragan” of the previous generation. The main essence of modernization is the use of interchangeable packages, that is, the system will be bi-caliber, it will be able to use ammunition of a larger caliber”, – said Tikhonov.

    Does "use ammunition of a larger caliber" = 300mm. If so one system could replace both. For shorter ranges 220mm and 300mm for longer ranges. Would be an interesting system if so.

    Dual launcher is seems



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    Re: Soviet era MRLS: Grad, Uragan, Smerch

    Post  GarryB on Sat Aug 22, 2015 12:05 pm

    So the new vehicle can use the rocket pods of the Uragan and Smerch...

    this is a good step as the Uragan had 16 tubes of 220mm calibre rockets, while Smerch had 12 tubes of 300mm calibre rockets.

    Grad has 40 tubes of 122mm rockets, while MLRS has 12 tubes of 227mm rockets.

    I suspect the future forces will combine the two heavier rocket vehicles in one vehicle that can be loaded with two pallets of either of the rocket types or combinations.

    It might even be able to carry the lighter calibre rockets too (122mm). which would make it rather more flexible.

    For situations where smaller vehicles are better then the new version of Grad could be the best option, but there was also a light version able to carry one pallet that could be used to.

    Will be interesting to see which way they go.


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    Re: Soviet era MRLS: Grad, Uragan, Smerch

    Post  TheArmenian on Sat Aug 22, 2015 4:02 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    franco wrote:
    George1 wrote:Techmash: new MLRS "Uragan-1M" to be accepted in service in Russia

    The new multiple launch rocket system (MLRS) “Uragan-1M” of a 220 mm caliber is entering service in Russia; its features are full automation and ability to use interchangeable packets of ammunition, First Deputy Director General of “Tecmash” concern (included in “Rostec”) Vladimir Tikhonov told RIA Novosti on Friday.

    The system is being developed by the Tula-located enterprise NPO “Splav” (included in “Tehmash”).

    “The MLRS “Uragan-1M” is entering service in Russia. State tests have been successfully completed. This is a modernization of well-established multiple rocket launchers “Uragan” of the previous generation. The main essence of modernization is the use of interchangeable packages, that is, the system will be bi-caliber, it will be able to use ammunition of a larger caliber”, – said Tikhonov.

    Does "use ammunition of a larger caliber" = 300mm. If so one system could replace both. For shorter ranges 220mm and 300mm for longer ranges. Would be an interesting system if so.

    Dual launcher is seems



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    Thanks PapaDragon.

    My vote

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    Re: Soviet era MRLS: Grad, Uragan, Smerch

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Aug 23, 2015 9:16 pm

    @TheArmenian: no problem buddy, thanks thumbsup

    This would be 220 mm version




    300 mm one


    And there is a combo version also. Although, I am pretty sure they could get away with using smaller truck...

    Can't post source because OP did not bother to post one... dunno

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    Re: Soviet era MRLS: Grad, Uragan, Smerch

    Post  George1 on Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:30 pm

    From what i conclude, Tornado is only modernization of older MRLSs? Not completely a new system?


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