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    [Official] Armata Discussion Τhread #5

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    Werewolf
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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion Τhread #5

    Post  Werewolf on Wed Apr 13, 2016 6:38 pm

    The T-90A turret weights somewhere at 14t iirc so i would guess the T-14 turret weights less since the current version is only the core without the armor shell which we will see at the end.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion Τhread #5

    Post  Militarov on Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:20 pm

    Cyrus the great wrote:The turret of the M1A2 apparently weighs 24 metric tons and considering that it's a manned turret, it must be considerably heavier than the turret of the T-14 Armata, so how much does the turret of the T-14 weigh? There is one thing in the Merkava that would be great to have in the Armata -- a 60mm mortar, operated automatically from within.

    From what i am aware mortar in Mekava is manually operated by loader. And its was though time mostly used to launch illuminating shells or to mark position for "real" artillery. Idea was to use it aganist AT teams at first. I had picture of Merkava mortar on my PC but i cant find it it seems. When i find it ill post it for reference.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion Τhread #5

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:39 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    Cyrus the great wrote:The turret of the M1A2 apparently weighs 24 metric tons and considering that it's a manned turret, it must be considerably heavier than the turret of the T-14 Armata, so how much does the turret of the T-14 weigh? There is one thing in the Merkava that would be great to have in the Armata -- a 60mm mortar, operated automatically from within.

    From what i am aware mortar in Mekava is manually operated by loader. And its was though time mostly used to launch illuminating shells or to mark position for "real" artillery. Idea was to use it aganist AT teams at first. I had picture of Merkava mortar on my PC but i cant find it it seems. When i find it ill post it for reference.
    Manually operated and à PITA.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion Τhread #5

    Post  Werewolf on Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:41 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Manually operated and à PITA.

    Pain in the ass, i assume?

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion Τhread #5

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:48 pm

    Yup.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion Τhread #5

    Post  Zivo on Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:17 pm







    IMO, it looks like another thing to bash your head on when going over rough terrain.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion Τhread #5

    Post  Militarov on Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:41 pm

    Zivo wrote:

    Yeah, that is the one i have on my PC.

    Well i guess occasionally it can prove to be useful, otherwise Israelis would drop it.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion Τhread #5

    Post  Werewolf on Wed Apr 13, 2016 10:11 pm

    Looks very primitive. I thought it would have been aided by FCS and would be adjusted by coordinates semi/automatic. Seems like lot of time is wasted to aim it to have any effect on target. The AG-30 should have better performance in time/effeciency/accuracy -range against targets since they are already conntected to FCS on BMPT.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion Τhread #5

    Post  Militarov on Wed Apr 13, 2016 10:32 pm

    Werewolf wrote:Looks very primitive. I thought it would have been aided by FCS and would be adjusted by coordinates semi/automatic. Seems like lot of time is wasted to aim it to have any effect on target. The AG-30 should have better performance in time/effeciency/accuracy -range against targets since they are already conntected to FCS on BMPT.

    Just look at it like ultralight M224 mortar just on vehicle. Its not ment to be very accurate but rather help you illuminate enemy positions for infantry, to mark some positions for artillery or advancing units, or when you are in city to aid units in next street. Mortar is used anyways only when tank is not directly engaged in combat.



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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion Τhread #5

    Post  Zivo on Wed Apr 13, 2016 10:42 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:Looks very primitive. I thought it would have been aided by FCS and would be adjusted by coordinates semi/automatic. Seems like lot of time is wasted to aim it to have any effect on target. The AG-30 should have better performance in time/effeciency/accuracy -range against targets since they are already conntected to FCS on BMPT.

    Just look at it like ultralight M224 mortar just on vehicle. Its not ment to be very accurate but rather help you illuminate enemy positions for infantry, to mark some positions for artillery or advancing units, or when you are in city to aid units in next street. Mortar is used anyways only when tank is not directly engaged in combat.



    If you where to remove the mortar round through Photoshop, my first thought would have been, why is that soldier is using a weapon from 1600 AD.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion Τhread #5

    Post  Zivo on Wed Apr 13, 2016 10:50 pm




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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion Τhread #5

    Post  Militarov on Wed Apr 13, 2016 10:56 pm

    Zivo wrote:


    Hahaha, ye, tho there are plenty of such hand held ultra light mortars now. Mostly 51 and 60mm.

    One of my favourite devices following this template btw


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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion Τhread #5

    Post  Mike E on Fri Apr 15, 2016 8:15 am

    Werewolf wrote:The T-90A turret weights somewhere at 14t iirc so i would guess the T-14 turret weights less since the current version is only the core without the armor shell which we will see at the end.
    Question Though I do not deny the likelihood of that happening, it is thus-far completely unconfirmed and should be treated as such. It is more likely the core will remain the same and the 'soft' shell may change, possibly allowing for the addition of ERA on the side or something.

    Unmanned turrets are said to shave off 5 tons, to there you go; ~9 tons, maybe less.

    In other news, Armata has (already!) passed testing; here

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion Τhread #5

    Post  Cyrus the great on Fri Apr 15, 2016 4:07 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    Cyrus the great wrote:The turret of the M1A2 apparently weighs 24 metric tons and considering that it's a manned turret, it must be considerably heavier than the turret of the T-14 Armata, so how much does the turret of the T-14 weigh? There is one thing in the Merkava that would be great to have in the Armata -- a 60mm mortar, operated automatically from within.

    From what i am aware mortar in Mekava is manually operated by loader. And its was though time mostly used to launch illuminating shells or to mark position for "real" artillery. Idea was to use it aganist AT teams at first. I had picture of Merkava mortar on my PC but i cant find it it seems. When i find it ill post it for reference.

    I made the mistake of not expressing myself a little more clearer. I meant to say that (unlike in the Merkava) the capability should be automated. It's one of the few features that I like in the Merkava; I don't like the front engine design, because it greatly increases the thermal signature of the tank or that stupid rear door that makes it far easier to kill the crew from a shot from behind.

    The Merkava apparently has every little armor in the front hull and the sides -- the very opposite of this nonsense about the Merkava being the best protected tank in the world.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion Τhread #5

    Post  Werewolf on Fri Apr 15, 2016 4:26 pm

    Mike E wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:The T-90A turret weights somewhere at 14t iirc so i would guess the T-14 turret weights less since the current version is only the core without the armor shell which we will see at the end.
    Question  Though I do not deny the likelihood of that happening, it is thus-far completely unconfirmed and should be treated as such. It is more likely the core will remain the same and the 'soft' shell may change, possibly allowing for the addition of ERA on the side or something.

    Unmanned turrets are said to shave off 5 tons, to there you go; ~9 tons, maybe less.

    In other news, Armata has (already!) passed testing; here

    It is quite obvious that there will be an armor shell/applique armor for the shell in both composite aswell ERA type protection for the turret. It will not increase the likelyhood to be hit, since that armor does not have anything behind it with volume of the internal arrangement, it still will have a quite slim profile but will give protection from the safe maneuvering angles and the front does not have lot of projection anyways, since we have to ignore the "RAM" coating/sheet it does not face any projection to the front that would have any effect after penetration with or without armor.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion Τhread #5

    Post  Cyrus the great on Fri Apr 15, 2016 4:48 pm

    Mike E wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:The T-90A turret weights somewhere at 14t iirc so i would guess the T-14 turret weights less since the current version is only the core without the armor shell which we will see at the end.
    Question  Though I do not deny the likelihood of that happening, it is thus-far completely unconfirmed and should be treated as such. It is more likely the core will remain the same and the 'soft' shell may change, possibly allowing for the addition of ERA on the side or something.

    Unmanned turrets are said to shave off 5 tons, to there you go; ~9 tons, maybe less.

    In other news, Armata has (already!) passed testing; here

    I absolutely love the versatility of the Armata design. The Armata can accommodate 65 tons -- meaning that it has endless options at its disposal in the ever changing battlefield. I read that the urban warfare kit weighs 5 tons, and so I imagine that its turret roof armour (in this configuration) will eclipse the turret roof protection of the Merkava mk4. In addition to an automatic 60 mm mortar, the inclusion of 23mm autocannons on the side (with a reasonable rate of fire) and 57 mm grenade launchers (in lieu of the 7.62) would increase the effectiveness of the Armata in urban engagements.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion Τhread #5

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Fri Apr 15, 2016 5:48 pm

    Cyrus the great wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    Cyrus the great wrote:The turret of the M1A2 apparently weighs 24 metric tons and considering that it's a manned turret, it must be considerably heavier than the turret of the T-14 Armata, so how much does the turret of the T-14 weigh? There is one thing in the Merkava that would be great to have in the Armata -- a 60mm mortar, operated automatically from within.

    From what i am aware mortar in Mekava is manually operated by loader. And its was though time mostly used to launch illuminating shells or to mark position for "real" artillery. Idea was to use it aganist AT teams at first. I had picture of Merkava mortar on my PC but i cant find it it seems. When i find it ill post it for reference.

    I made the mistake of not expressing myself a little more clearer. I meant to say that (unlike in the Merkava) the capability should be automated. It's one of the few features that I like in the Merkava; I don't like the front engine design, because it greatly increases the thermal signature of the tank or that stupid rear door that makes it far easier to kill the crew from a shot from behind.

    The Merkava apparently has every little armor in the front hull and the sides -- the very opposite of this nonsense about the Merkava being the best protected tank in the world.

    Merk's have decent armour on the sides, it's just that it doesn't help with the inherent armor gaps that are forced by the engine outlay. The tank's main strength is the APS right now, NOT it passive protection.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion Τhread #5

    Post  Cyrus the great on Fri Apr 15, 2016 5:59 pm

    Werewolf wrote:The T-90A turret weights somewhere at 14t iirc so i would guess the T-14 turret weights less since the current version is only the core without the armor shell which we will see at the end.

    Thanks for answering that question for me.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion Τhread #5

    Post  Cyrus the great on Fri Apr 15, 2016 6:11 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Cyrus the great wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    Cyrus the great wrote:The turret of the M1A2 apparently weighs 24 metric tons and considering that it's a manned turret, it must be considerably heavier than the turret of the T-14 Armata, so how much does the turret of the T-14 weigh? There is one thing in the Merkava that would be great to have in the Armata -- a 60mm mortar, operated automatically from within.

    From what i am aware mortar in Mekava is manually operated by loader. And its was though time mostly used to launch illuminating shells or to mark position for "real" artillery. Idea was to use it aganist AT teams at first. I had picture of Merkava mortar on my PC but i cant find it it seems. When i find it ill post it for reference.

    I made the mistake of not expressing myself a little more clearer. I meant to say that (unlike in the Merkava) the capability should be automated. It's one of the few features that I like in the Merkava; I don't like the front engine design, because it greatly increases the thermal signature of the tank or that stupid rear door that makes it far easier to kill the crew from a shot from behind.

    The Merkava apparently has every little armor in the front hull and the sides -- the very opposite of this nonsense about the Merkava being the best protected tank in the world.

    Merk's  have decent armour on the sides, it's just that it doesn't help with the inherent armor gaps that are forced by the engine outlay. The tank's main strength is the APS right now, NOT it passive protection.

    I've read that its side armour is not quite up to scratch, but I didn't get that information from reputable sources, so I'll have to scour the internet for more reputable sources. The Israeli Trophy APS has apparently already served the Israelis well in the occupied territories, but the new Afghanit APS should be superior.


    Last edited by Cyrus the great on Fri Apr 15, 2016 9:54 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion Τhread #5

    Post  Zivo on Fri Apr 15, 2016 9:14 pm

    The Merk IV's turret is well armored, but everything else is sketchy.

    This is essentially the front lower hull. The fuel tank sits inside of this, and the transmission is right behind the fuel tank.




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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion Τhread #5

    Post  Cyrus the great on Fri Apr 15, 2016 10:36 pm

    Zivo wrote:The Merk IV's turret is well armored, but everything else is sketchy.

    This is essentially the front lower hull. The fuel tank sits inside of this, and the transmission is right behind the fuel tank.




    Yeah that does look terribly thin.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion Τhread #5

    Post  George1 on Tue Apr 19, 2016 12:05 am

    Armata-Based Heavy Infantry Fighting Vehicle to Be Equipped With Drone

    The T-15 heavy infantry fighting vehicle will receive a drone as part of its equipment.

    MOSCOW (Sputnik) — The T-15 heavy infantry fighting vehicle based on the Russian Armata tank will be equipped with a drone, Oleg Sienko, the General Director of the Uralvagonzavod corporation which manufactures the tanks, said.

    "The use of a drone on the T-15 heavy infantry fighting vehicle is envisioned. This is an indispensable element in the tactical level. It is extremely difficult to move in a convoy without seeing," Sienko told RIA Novosti.

    According to the official, the type of drone for use on the T-15 is currently under negotiation.

    "This is definitely a question for the Defense Ministry which is testing Russian-made unmanned aerial vehicles," Sienko added.

    The Russian Defense Ministry unveiled its new Armata tank at the May 9 Victory Day military parade in Moscow in 2015.

    The tank is operated by a crew of three, housed in an armored capsule at the front. Its main armament includes a 125-mm smoothbore cannon and a 7.62-mm remote-control machine gun.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20160418/1038197778/armata-drone.html#ixzz46Db1EPAA


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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion Τhread #5

    Post  eehnie on Tue Apr 19, 2016 9:50 pm

    In adition to the T-14 tank, T-15 IFV, 2S35 152mm artillery piece and T-16 BREM-T, it seems that some other variants will be based on the Armata platform:

    russian wikipedia traslated wrote:Other machines on the platform [ edit | edit the wiki text ]
    LMC-2 - fighting vehicle flamethrower; [1]
    TOS BM-2 - heavy ognemёtnaya system; [1]
    TRV-2 - Freight loading vehicle heavy flamethrower system [1]
    USM-A1 - mining system; [1]
    IIM-A - a multi-purpose machine engineering; [1]
    UMP-A - minelayer (draft); [1]
    MT-A - launched bridge (project); [1]
    TCP-A - floating conveyor (draft). [1]

    This was the primary source for the Russian Wikipedia:

    http://vz.ru/society/2013/9/26/652197.html

    I see logical the variants of the TOS BM-2 and the rest of the engineering vehicles, but I have some doubt about the LMC-2 and TRV-2. I'm not sure if Im understanding well the purpose of these potential variants and as consequence it is difficult to me to see if are necessary.

    Someone knows something else about them?

    In adition to all these versions, surely the Armata platform gives room to the development of two new artillery pieces:
    - A variant of 203mm to replace the 2S7
    - A variant of 240mm to replace the 2S4

    I would expect them to be developed. It has been some talk about a 120mm mortar version, but I tend to think that this mortar is too small for this platform, I would expect more a 120 mm mortar in the Kurganets platform.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion Τhread #5

    Post  franco on Tue Apr 19, 2016 10:24 pm



    The Russian Defense Ministry has signed a contract with the company "Uralvagonzavod" to supply 100 tank "Armata".
    "We have contracted 100 tanks", - he told reporters the Russian Deputy Defense Minister Yuri Borisov.
    Borisov also noted that the defense department of the country fairly new tank, but "does not force his purchase."
    "We have good modernization potential of the T-72", - he added.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion Τhread #5

    Post  George1 on Wed Apr 20, 2016 12:24 am

    Excellent!! Here the page source

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1858996.html


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