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    Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

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    Benya

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    Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  Benya on Mon Dec 05, 2016 4:30 pm

    hoom wrote:The Chinese are doing something like that.


    I think Russians looked at it but decided against because engines are so bad & by the time you rip out all the old stuff, fix and replace with new stuff the price is basically same as a brand new ship with all the advantages of a modern design/engine.

    There was a sketch of upgraded Sov I was looking at recently that was I think part of Almaz Sthil-1 promo, can't find it right now though cry

    Actually, this is a CGI of the chinese destroyer "Ningbo" (Pennant number: 139), exported Sovremenniy-class destroyer.
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    hoom

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    Sovremennyy-class destroyers.

    Post  hoom on Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:06 pm

    Yes I said Chinese...
    And they are in progress of doing upgrades


    Not the sketch I was thinking of (& I think it was actually an Udaloy not Sov) but found this
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    Project Canada

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    Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  Project Canada on Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:06 am



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    George1

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    Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  George1 on Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:50 pm

    Russian Navy plans to modernize five big antisubmarine ships

    According to the Navy spokesman, the ships will undergo an "enormous overhaul"


    MOSCOW, January 19. /TASS/. Five big antisubmarine ships Project 1155 (Udaloy-class) will be refurbished and modernized until the year 2022 as radio-electronic weapons systems and life support systems are to be overhauled, Russian Navy’s spokesman Igor Dygalo told reporters.

    "Until the year 2022, five big antisubmarine warfare destroyers Project 1155 of the Northern and Pacific Fleets will be refurbished and modernized at shipyards in the northern and Far Eastern regions," Dygalo said, noting the ships "will undergo an enormous overhaul of their life support systems and radio-electronic weapons systems."


    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/925917


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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Aug 19, 2017 1:54 am

    Okay, if I am reading this right it looks like Marshall Shaposhnikov will be getting 2 UKSK launchers  Suspect
    (УВПУ 3С-14 is UKSK, right?) confused

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2792784.html
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    Militarov

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    Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  Militarov on Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:12 am

    PapaDragon wrote:Okay, if I am reading this right it looks like Marshall Shaposhnikov will be getting 2 UKSK launchers  Suspect
    (УВПУ 3С-14 is UKSK, right?) confused

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2792784.html

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1544307.html

    Mhm Smile
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  Big_Gazza on Sat Aug 19, 2017 3:09 am

    PapaDragon wrote:Okay, if I am reading this right it looks like Marshall Shaposhnikov will be getting 2 UKSK launchers  Suspect
    (УВПУ 3С-14 is UKSK, right?) confused

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2792784.html

    I wonder if the UKSK will be the usual vertical bins or whether this will be an inclined version for retrofit to older vessels? Kinda like the racks fitted to the Pr 1234.7 missile boat Nakat?




    Nakat was clearly a trial arrangement, and apparently needed tarpaulins to provide supplementary environmental protection for the exposed missile tubes, but it demonstrated the feasibility of firing Oniks from inclined tubes. I assume it requires a different missile build to fire from inclined tubes, unlike VLS where the missile pops up & rotates 90 degrees prior to firing main booster.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:23 am

    .
    @BigGazza

    I don't think they will be deviating from standard vertical setup, too much hassle and if they had planned it at any point it would have been done long ago

    Most likely they told themselves "We are ripping everything out of this monster that is not fuzed with the bulkhead so why not make some actual improvements​ with easily available gear while we are at it?"

    Also, I don't think that weapons that this ship uses will be in production for much longer if they still are at all
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    Rowdyhorse4

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    Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  Rowdyhorse4 on Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:27 pm

    http://zakupki.rosneft.ru/node/220427

    the Procurement list for the Udaloy upgrades

    More source about the Udaloys getting UKSK


    Last edited by Rowdyhorse4 on Sat Aug 19, 2017 3:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    George1

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    Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  George1 on Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:43 pm

    Τhe strange is that the article says that also 3P-60U (Uran launcher) will be on the ship. So both Kalibr and Uran?


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    Rowdyhorse4

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    Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  Rowdyhorse4 on Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:48 pm

    George1 wrote:Τhe strange is that the article says that also 3P-60U (Uran launcher) will be on the ship. So both Kalibr and Uran?

    Ummm  

    Let me inquire on this first actually and i'll get back to you

    BUT IF they are getting Uran launchers....  

    Probably similar setup to US DDGs where Harpoons missiles containers were placed in the ass of the ship while Anti-Ship Tomahawk missiles are in the MK41 VLS


    You can contact me on my discord if you want to try find out more i guess?


    UPDATE:

    Oh you meant another article because i see no mention of Uran launchers...
    there shouldn't be i think...
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    George1

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    Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  George1 on Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:55 pm

    Rowdyhorse4 wrote:
    George1 wrote:Τhe strange is that the article says that also 3P-60U (Uran launcher) will be on the ship. So both Kalibr and Uran?

    Ummm  

    Let me inquire on this first actually and i'll get back to you

    BUT IF they are getting Uran launchers....  

    Probably similar setup to US DDGs where Harpoons missiles containers were placed in the ass of the ship while Anti-Ship Tomahawk missiles are in the MK41 VLS


    You can contact me on my discord if you want to try find out more i guess?


    UPDATE:

    Oh you meant another article because i see no mention of Uran launchers...
    there shouldn't be i think...

    this article i meant

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2792784.html


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    Rowdyhorse4

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    Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  Rowdyhorse4 on Sat Aug 19, 2017 3:01 pm

    George1 wrote:
    Rowdyhorse4 wrote:
    George1 wrote:Τhe strange is that the article says that also 3P-60U (Uran launcher) will be on the ship. So both Kalibr and Uran?

    Ummm  

    Let me inquire on this first actually and i'll get back to you

    BUT IF they are getting Uran launchers....  

    Probably similar setup to US DDGs where Harpoons missiles containers were placed in the ass of the ship while Anti-Ship Tomahawk missiles are in the MK41 VLS


    You can contact me on my discord if you want to try find out more i guess?


    UPDATE:

    Oh you meant another article because i see no mention of Uran launchers...
    there shouldn't be i think...



    this article i meant

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2792784.html


    Actually my bad...  I suck at reading russian anyways... .

    yes the Udaloy is getting URAN launchers

    Its in the Procurement list i posted...  

    most likely it will be on deck near the UKSK launchers as well probably....   UKSK is somewhere in the bow of the ship and the old SS-N-14 launchers place become Urans launchers.......
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    Luq man

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    Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  Luq man on Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:16 pm

    From twitter: RussianDefence.com‏ @Russian_Defence



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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:41 pm

    Last photo is of Grigorevich frigate

    They will probably remove one gun and install those 2 VLS systems there

    Urans will go in the back, plenty of room

    Silex/Sunburn horizontal launchers stay where they are, there will be no horizontal UKSK

    UKSK will make these ships Zircon certified which will significantly increase their threat rating, something very few people expected
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  KiloGolf on Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:22 pm

    Luq man wrote:From twitter: RussianDefence.com‏ @Russian_Defence



    What are we looking at? Uran horizontal launchers in the back and front and UKSK VLS?
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    Luq man

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    Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  Luq man on Sat Aug 19, 2017 8:40 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:What are we looking at? Uran horizontal launchers in the back and front and UKSK VLS?

    Apparently yes

    Edit: The fact this ship will get Urans gives reason all those UKSK cells will be filled with the anti submarine missile/torpedos of the Kalibr family.


    Last edited by Luq man on Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:12 pm


    According to some rumors Uran launchers will be installed in the place of Silex containers which will be removed

    If true it means a lot of space in the front for Urans, they could squeeze quite a few of them
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    George1

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    Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  George1 on Sat Aug 19, 2017 11:21 pm

    do we know if that kind of upgrade will be implemented and in the rest Udaloys?


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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Aug 20, 2017 1:49 am

    George1 wrote:do we know if that kind of upgrade will be implemented and in the rest Udaloys?

    Most likely, if they are going all in on first one then rest of them should not be a problem

    Shaposhnikov is one of the oldest of this class in service

    One other (Spiridonov) is decommissioned but they said there is possibility of it getting upgrade and returning to service, will it happen is anyone's guess
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  Big_Gazza on Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:00 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    According to some rumors Uran launchers will be installed in the place of Silex containers which will be removed

    If true it means a lot of space in the front for Urans, they could squeeze quite a few of them  

    Yep, I don't see any point in keeping the Silex launchers.  91RE1/91RET2 would be a far more potent ASW weapon than Silex was, and the Urans will be a huge step up from the Silex secondary anti-surface role.
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    hoom

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    Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  hoom on Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:16 am

    This was a Klub promo image, I believe whats shown are variants of how Klub can be mounted rather than a proposed upgrade.

    Inclined Urans on the sides & VLS UKSK is interesting, anything on the AA?
    At least upgrade the Tor hopefully but I'd like to see Shtil-1 or Redut.
    Could Pantsir-M fit somewhere?
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:38 pm

    hoom wrote:This was a Klub promo image, I believe whats shown are variants of how Klub can be mounted rather than a proposed upgrade.

    Inclined Urans on the sides & VLS UKSK is interesting, anything on the AA?
    At least upgrade the Tor hopefully but I'd like to see Shtil-1 or Redut.
    Could Pantsir-M fit somewhere?

    I don't think they can fit Pantsirs on locations of current CIWS (they could theoretically clear some space on helicopter hangar but it's unlikely). What they can easily do is replace current CIWS with Tandem AK like ones on Buyan-M. Having 4 of these would mean lot's of extra kick without any hassle.

    With 16 UKSK cells I would say that they will most likely go with 8 anti-sub and 8 anti-ship missiles. Urans are decent but it makes sense to have some "silver bullets" around just in case. And those 8 torpedo tubes aren't going anywhere so anti-sub functionality will be fully retained.

    Speaking of Urans my rough guess is that they can easily fit 3 of them in place of one Silex container. That would mean 24 Uran missiles in front alone. If they opt to add 2 more in the back it would increase missile count to 32. At least. If they get creative then who knows, maybe even more, Urans are not too heavy for ship of this size.

    As for AA missiles something definitely needs to be added. Maybe they just get fresh missiles but since they are already cutting hul to fit UKSK then some extra cuts to add Shtil or Redut in place of old AA systems is not a big stretch.

    Looks like these ships will be converted to true multirole vessels instead of narrowly specialized anti-sub platforms. Not bad.
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    hoom

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    Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  hoom on Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:50 am

    So I'm thinking if they replace the Tor/Kinzhal with Shtil-1 (by eyeball looks like a couple of 12* cell modules would fit?) they can take off the big MR-360 fire-control directors fore & aft, replaced by 4* much smaller MR-90s.
    Replace the RBUs (assuming that structure includes the ammo & reloader under them) forward of the hangar with a Pantsir-M (would have a bunch of arc blocked by the MR-360 if not removed).
    Or replace the RBUs with a couple more Shtil-1 modules?

    Hmm, looking again there is actually quite a lot of room forward of the RBUs (including a couple of Kinzhal carousels?), enough for 2*6 cell inclined UKSK per above pic -> maybe could do both Shtil-1 modules and Pantsir-M?
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    GarryB

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    Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  GarryB on Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:35 pm

    The Udaloys are fundamentally ASW vessels with a secondary AShW capability with its Silex missiles being anti sub torpedoes with a secondary anti ship capability.

    this upgrade adding two UKSK launchers and Uran missiles is interesting as I would expect with the ability to carry 16 missiles in the UKSK launcher at least half will be the anti sub Klub missiles... probably three quarters... ie 12 of 16 missiles would be mach 2.5 ballistic rockets to deliver anti sub torpedoes up to 50km from the ship.

    The Urans would be good enough for back up anti ship self defence, which leaves 4 tubes for something else like a land attack missile or more powerful anti ship weapon.

    I suspect it will remain fundamentally anti sub, but when needed for land attack AKA Syria, then the Uran would protect the ship and 12 tubes of the UKSK could carry land attack missiles with 4 tubes left for anti sub work.

    It will be interesting to see what they actually do regarding angled UKSK tubes because this will have implications regarding the Slava class vessels.

    And BTW the Onyx/Brahmos/Zircon, and the Club/Klub family of missiles and indeed Calibr are all able to be fired from standard 533mm torpedo tubes so angle launch is not really an issue.


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