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    Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

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    hoom

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    Post  hoom on Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:49 am

    This piracy/diplomacy stuff is precisely why Navy need those cheap and cool Bykov-class offshore patrol vessels, it's stupid to waste destroyers on this trivial crap
    On the one hand yes, on the other a 22160 doesn't quite have the presence of something like an Udaloy.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Dec 30, 2018 3:25 pm

    hoom wrote:
    This piracy/diplomacy stuff is precisely why Navy need those cheap and cool Bykov-class offshore patrol vessels, it's stupid to waste destroyers on this trivial crap
    On the one hand yes, on the other a 22160 doesn't quite have the presence of something like an Udaloy.

    It doesn't need one, it has the looks and recent production date

    Udalois are big but they aren't fooling anyone when it comes to age

    And they have way more important things to do than giving tours to onlookers and scaring pirates in speedboats
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    Post  GarryB on Mon Dec 31, 2018 4:45 am

    The new boats will do a much better job and be cheaper and probably more comfortable for the crew.

    The pirates would have no chance with either ship....
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    Post  hoom on Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:44 am

    Severomorsk has stopped in to Sevastopol (first time ever apparently) https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3490582.html
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    Getting some repairs done till Feb, has been away from home in North since 29 July 2017!
    Though some of that was at St Petersburg for Navy day, still a very long tour (something something Russian ships have bad reliability Wink ) & presumably if they're doing minor maintenance at Sevastopol it may stay in East Med for a while?
    Though could also be a case of making use of the facilities 'on the way past' to help reduce load on North drydocks post PD-50.


    Last edited by hoom on Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  Isos on Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:00 am

    Or it will hunt Turkish subs in case things go bad during their operation in Syria ...

    Minor reperations could have been done in the north. That's more a tactical deployment.

    Ukrainian crisis brings more NATO ships in the Black sea region and in the south US pull out means things will change quickly and Erdogan still thinks he can take a big part of Syria for his "empire".

    An udaloy probably armed with nuks missiles will keep everyone calm.
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:28 am

    Erdogan still thinks he can take a big part of Syria for his "empire".

    If that was the plan he probably would have gotten a hell of a lot more support from the Americans... they don't give a F about the Kurds... they are there to keep the country split to foil Assad and prevent a close alliance with Iran.

    If erdogan had such a plan the US would have happily supported that... turkey is more likely to be able to create a working self contained region than the Kurds are... and considering the US forces based in Turkey I am sure they want to be friendly more than they want to be hostile... despite whatever pastors get in the way.

    In terms of using these old ships for pirate duty... I suspect some of these pirates really know little about modern naval technology and would not be able to tell the difference between 30mm cannon shells coming at them from an old AK-630 or a brand new Duet system... they would probably see the bigger older ships as being more powerful based merely on size... I doubt they know what stealth shaping is.
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    Post  hoom on Fri Feb 22, 2019 5:47 am

    Work on Severomorsk is completed https://flot.com/2019/%D0%9F%D0%BE%D1%85%D0%BE%D0%B44/
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    Post  higurashihougi on Fri Feb 22, 2019 5:54 am

    GarryB wrote:
    Erdogan still thinks he can take a big part of Syria for his "empire".

    If that was the plan he probably would have gotten a hell of a lot more support from the Americans... they don't give a F about the Kurds... they are there to keep the country split to foil Assad and prevent a close alliance with Iran.

    I still maintain my opinion that I don't trust Erdogan. When the Turks managed to sent troops in neighbor lands it is very hard to plug them out. In Al-bab they already began to use Turkish language in school.

    I do not mean Kurdish forces are any better... but the Kurdland in Syria need to be under control of Syrian Army and no Turkish troops or Turkish proxy rebels should be allowed to take more land in Syria.
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    Post  Hole on Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:35 am

    The proof that Russia is behind global warming! Rachel Madcow will love this! lol!

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    Post  Big_Gazza on Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:53 pm

    Looks shopped. Mazut fuel oil tends to produce dense black smoke. She's also not underway, so why are the boilers fired so high?
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    Post  kvs on Tue Apr 02, 2019 3:49 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:Looks shopped. Mazut fuel oil tends to produce dense black smoke. She's also not underway, so why are the boilers fired so high?

    It is shopped. The same BS as with the Kuznetsov. NATO fanbois are so gay.

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    Post  Isos on Tue Apr 02, 2019 3:57 pm

    Main issue of sovs are engines. That's why they don't want them anymore.

    They can always ask chinese to upgrade them with chinese engines. They are already doing it for their own 4 sovremennys.

    That could keep them another 10 years in service while they build more gorshkov to replace them. And they have few in reserve that could benefit that upgrade. Chinese shipyard are faster than russian ones and with much more experience as they build like 100 times more ships than russia. They could have it for a decent price.
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    Post  kvs on Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:17 pm

    Isos wrote:Main issue of sovs are engines. That's why they don't want them anymore.

    They can always ask chinese to upgrade them with chinese engines. They are already doing it for their own 4 sovremennys.

    That could keep them another 10 years in service while they build more gorshkov to replace them. And they have few in reserve that could benefit that upgrade. Chinese shipyard are faster than russian ones and with much more experience as they build like 100 times more ships than russia. They could have it for a decent price.

    Cite a source about the engines being "the main issue". Everything to do with Russia is always full of hyperbole and hysteria.
    I trust the operators of these ships to know what their problems are. Russia does not need to run off to China to get ship engines.
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    Post  bolshevik345 on Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:55 pm

    kvs wrote:
    Isos wrote:Main issue of sovs are engines. That's why they don't want them anymore.

    They can always ask chinese to upgrade them with chinese engines. They are already doing it for their own 4 sovremennys.

    That could keep them another 10 years in service while they build more gorshkov to replace them. And they have few in reserve that could benefit that upgrade. Chinese shipyard are faster than russian ones and with much more experience as they build like 100 times more ships than russia. They could have it for a decent price.

    Cite a source about the engines being "the main issue".   Everything to do with Russia is always full of hyperbole and hysteria.
    I trust the operators of these ships to know what their problems are.   Russia does not need to run off to China to get ship engines.
    Agree. powerplants can always be upgraded. This seems even more dubious than the admiral lazarev hysteria. The argument that the sovs won't be upgraded because they're too "specialized" is dishonest because the udaloys sacrificed antiship and AA capability almost completely for ASW weapons and they're still getting upgraded. To make the sovs multipurpose, just replace the moskits with UKSKs.
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    Post  Hole on Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:17 pm

    Moskits are in angled launchers o both sides of the bridge. UKSK won´t fit there. Skip one 130mm gun turret.

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    Post  hoom on Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:01 am

    Cite a source about the engines being "the main issue".
    Its pretty well known that the Sovs have basically same boilers as K replete with the same problems of reliability & difficulty getting them to burn clean.

    Skip one 130mm gun turret.
    Yep, one gun turret for 2 or 3*8 UKSK & the Shtil arm launchers for 2 or 3*12 Shtil-1 VLS each.

    16* UKSK & 48* Shtil-1 is a bit on the weak end for that size but 24* UKSK & 64* Shtil-1 would be very solid.

    But they won't because the boilers...
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    Post  southpark on Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:02 am

    Is Russia the only one that operates these class of ships or did they sell them to India or China or anyone else?
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    Post  hoom on Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:11 am

    PLAN has 4, they're undergoing upgrades similar to described
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    Post  southpark on Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:18 am

    Thanks, looks like they got them after the USSR collapsed and Chinese ones are getting upgraded to all domestic components too.
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    Post  bolshevik345 on Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:17 am

    Hole wrote:Moskits are in angled launchers o both sides of the bridge. UKSK won´t fit there. Skip one 130mm gun turret.

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    Angled UKSKs have been proven to have been tested without any problem. Also why not remove the shtil instead of the gun?
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    Post  Isos on Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:05 am

    Remove the gun at back with the shtill and replace it with VLS shtill. Could pack huge amount of missiles with 70km range.

    On the front a 76mm instead of the 130mm and also remove the single launcher for VLS shtill or some new VLS for Tor with easily 200 missiles.
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    Post  Isos on Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:08 am

    hoom wrote:PLAN has 4, they're undergoing upgrades similar to described
    [img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8rOXBhVoAAIhkI.jpg[/i]

    2 of the 4 don't have the gun at the back and are shorter than russian ones. They are a newer variant.
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:24 am

    Its pretty well known that the Sovs have basically same boilers as K replete with the same problems of reliability & difficulty getting them to burn clean.

    They are building new boilers for the K so they could easily make extra for the Sovs...

    The Sovs have two Shtil single arm launchers and two twin barrel 130mm guns... they could easily replace the front and rear Shtil with vertical launchers for Shtil missiles, and put two-three UKSK launchers where the rear gun is, and put angled UKSK launchers where the MOSKITS are for up to 5 launchers UKSK... which is plenty.
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    Post  Isos on Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:00 am

    They are building new boilers for the K so they could easily make extra for the Sovs...

    But they won't replace all of the K boilers with new ones. And it's a capital ship with no replacement.

    Sov can be replaced by Gorshkovs and are not capital ships as other ships can do their job like Grigorovitch or even Steregoushchy corvettes.

    The truth is that they will never upgrade them. Old design, old engines, old weaponery (no VLS, single launcher for shtill ...)

    In terms of life condition for the crew it is also older standards, same for weapons systems. Not as connected as a Gorshkov.

    Too many things to do to upgrade it at not even the level of Gorshkov which is only 135m long but has 120km redut system, stealth design, 16 uksk cells, integreted battle management systems, newest radars, less crew ...

    Keep one as museum and sell the other to vietnam, pakistan or Angola or even algeria for 100 million each. Iran would be interested too, they could pay tge chinese for a quick upgrade.

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    Post  zardof on Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:32 pm

    Isos wrote:
    They are building new boilers for the K so they could easily make extra for the Sovs...

    But they won't replace all of the K boilers with new ones. And it's a capital ship with no replacement.

    Sov can be replaced by Gorshkovs and are not capital ships as other ships can do their job like Grigorovitch or even Steregoushchy corvettes.

    The truth is that they will never upgrade them. Old design, old engines, old weaponery (no VLS, single launcher for shtill ...)

    In terms of life condition for the crew it is also older standards, same for weapons systems. Not as connected as a Gorshkov.

    Too many things to do to upgrade it at not even the level of Gorshkov which is only 135m long but has 120km redut system, stealth design, 16 uksk cells, integreted battle management systems, newest radars, less crew ...

    Keep one as museum and sell the other to vietnam, pakistan or Angola or even algeria for 100 million each. Iran would be interested too, they could pay tge chinese for a quick upgrade.


    I absolutly agree with you ... and replaced all these dinosaurs by more modern Gorhkov, sterengushy or Pr 11356 will be mutch better..... but..
    production of new vessels il weak, too slow ... and with the current crisis with USA and NATO they need boats now in number...
    so to upgrade old ship with some potential add to them even light vessel like Pr21631, Pr22800 is good .. because there is nothing else to add
    Unfortunatly Russia don't have productivity rate of china who produce ships faster than your baker do bread !!!!
    This productivity is a chance for Russia as USA must send more and more forces to ballance China fleets and give less pressure to Russia.

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