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    Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

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    Isos
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    Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  Isos on Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:51 pm


    Israel makes a lot of claims, but generally you'd have to be retarded to lose a Tor system.

    Well they lost a pantsir by leting it in the middle of a military airport. They would have done the same with tor.

    Iran has bought tor to russia if I'm not wrong. Some israeli and even syrian sources (like the one posting on twitter walid I think) said that iran lost some airdefence systems to israeli attacks. It's unlikely they were using them. Probably stocked in the facilities that have been attacked.
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    hoom

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    Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  hoom on Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:46 am

    If Pantsir is installed it will be in place of two (or all four?) AK-630´s, like on Adm. Chabanenko.
    Well what the blazes! I'd somehow overlooked that its got 2* Kashtan  Shocked
    Admiral Chabanenko is the sole Udaloy II though, could be a built in change that'd be harder to implement on Udaloy I?

    Looks like they built up the superstructure to allow room for the reloads could be done on Udaloy I as well I guess Suspect
    2* Pantsir-M there would be much better, also would open the RBU area for more Shtil-1, maybe a full 36 cell block?

    60* Shtil-1
    2* Pantsir-M (64* missiles)
    16* UKSK
    8/16* Uran
    Thats feeling like a much more decent armament for a 8,000ton Destroyer.
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    Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  Hole on Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:19 am

    Don´t know if they really would implement the Shtil-1 (Buk) instead of Kinzhal (Tor). The current model would need guidance radars = larger refit program.

    Pantsir and Kinzahl should be good enough. There´s a new missile for Pantsir with a range of 35 - 40 km. And the developer was talking about a newer version with hypersonic speed an a range of 60 or even 80 km.
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    Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  hoom on Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:00 pm

    The current model would need guidance radars = larger refit program.
    Yes but MR90 are small & existing tech, removing the large Kinzhal directors would make plenty of space for a couple each end, shouldn't be a problem to run cabling through same ducting.
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    Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:15 am


    Shaposhnikov in overhaul. It looks like there is way more room on that thing that I previously thought.

    Any fresh guesses about what will they drop in it? That space cleared out by removing gun is copious...

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    Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  Isos on Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:19 am

    There was a commercial add showing UKSK instead of the gun and instead of the inclined launchers.

    It would be 3*8 launchers for oniks and kalibr. Which is very good for a destroyer.

    If they replace the rdars, it could be more usefull to add 2 redut instead of the gun or instead of a uksk to have decent AA system.
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    Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  George1 on Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:37 am

    i am anxious to see the first modernized ship
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    Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  hoom on Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:11 am

    There was a commercial add showing UKSK instead of the gun and instead of the inclined launchers. wrote:
    This, its an ad displaying launcher options for Klub/Kalibr rather than a specific upgrade proposal.
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    Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:35 am


    They already striped down that elevated part so this won't be done.

    Interesting thing is that they also removed crane in the back to free up space so something might be happening there too.
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    Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  hoom on Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:46 am

    They already striped down that elevated part so this won't be done.
    Interesting point, hadn't previously noticed they've knocked that area under the gun down to deck level.

    Not obviously making a hole for new VLS yet.
    Also no sign of pulling out the Kinzhal.
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    Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  Stealthflanker on Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:52 am

    Hole wrote:

    Pantsir and Kinzahl should be good enough. There´s a new missile for Pantsir with a range of 35 - 40 km. And the developer was talking about a newer version with hypersonic speed an a range of 60 or even 80 km.

    It's either Pantsyr or Kinzhal. Having both are rather redundant and share same weaknesses namely the limited target channel. There is a risk of inability to handle saturation strike delivered by enemy. This require bit of range and some autonomy which where either Redut or Shtil comes in handy.

    The latest Shtil atm is using the active radar homing 9M317A. This is rather should be the weapon of choice to complement the Kinzhal or Pantsyr.
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    Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  Big_Gazza on Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:31 pm

    Pic of Adm Chabanenko in refit, taken 18/08

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    Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  Hole on Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:59 pm

    I wonder if they use that space between the gun and the bridge for something useful. Question
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    Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  hoom on Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:35 am

    Severomorsk is taking a turn at anti-piracy patrol off East Africa. http://charly015.blogspot.com/2018/10/el-severomorsk-en-mozambique-actualizado.html
    From recollection it left North to Baltic for Navy Day then escorted Adm Makarov to Syria.
    Since then its also visited Seychelles, Gulf of Aden & Mozambique.
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    Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  Labrador on Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:52 pm

    hoom wrote:
    This, its an ad displaying launcher options for Klub/Kalibr rather than a specific upgrade proposal.
    attack
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    Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  GarryB on Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:19 pm

    It's either Pantsyr or Kinzhal. Having both are rather redundant and share same weaknesses namely the limited target channel. There is a risk of inability to handle saturation strike delivered by enemy. This require bit of range and some autonomy which where either Redut or Shtil comes in handy.

    The latest Shtil atm is using the active radar homing 9M317A. This is rather should be the weapon of choice to complement the Kinzhal or Pantsyr.

    Shtil would have the advantage of range, but Klinok would also benefit from a new ship based AESA radar system that could probably help multiple targets from all directions and pass target data to the Klintok system... the land based TOR can engage 4 targets at once and with the new upgraded missiles having a range of 15km with a mach 3 speed and cheap simple command guidance and of course the new missiles are half the size so twice as many missiles can be carried in the same space... the land based TOR carried 8 missiles so the new model has 16 missiles... the ship based Klinok had 196 missiles on the Kirov class and Kuznetsov vessels that carried it... that would be a lot of missiles...

    Would agree that a combination of Shtil and Klintok would be good though.
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    Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  Labrador on Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:08 pm

    hoom wrote:
    This, its an ad displaying launcher options for Klub/Kalibr rather than a specific upgrade proposal.
    In front UKSK VLS for 8 Kaliber/Klub after near the bridge i don't think SS-N-14 and don't exist canisters for Kaliber/Klub  so what missile possible ?
    To the rear 8 KH-35.
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    Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  GarryB on Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:34 am

    The UKSK can carry the 91RE anti sub ballistic rocket delivered torpedo system, so the SS-N-14 would be redundant in that setup.
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    Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  hoom on Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:21 am

    In front UKSK VLS for 8 Kaliber/Klub after near the bridge i don't think SS-N-14 and don't exist canisters for Kaliber/Klub so what missile possible ?
    6 cell angled launchers were tested on a Nanuchka.

    Literally that pic is part of a Klub/Kalibr defense industry show poster highlighting launcher options.
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    Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  hoom on Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:38 am

    Severomorsk continues its diplomacy tour, now doing anti-piracy manoeuvres with a Japanese ship in Gulf of Aden http://charly015.blogspot.com/2018/11/rusos-y-japoneses-de-maniobras-en-el.html
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    Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Dec 26, 2018 5:50 pm

    hoom wrote:Severomorsk continues its diplomacy tour, now doing anti-piracy manoeuvres with a Japanese ship in Gulf of Aden http://charly015.blogspot.com/2018/11/rusos-y-japoneses-de-maniobras-en-el.html


    This piracy/diplomacy stuff is precisely why Navy need those cheap and cool Bykov-class offshore patrol vessels, it's stupid to waste destroyers on this trivial crap


    ALSO:

    I've been thinking, is it possible to install Kinzhal missiles in place for those Silex launches under the bridge on Udalois?

    They are smaller than Silex so they could maybe fit more than 8 and though they would loose a lot of range it would be enough to get the job done. Even with 50% loss it still leaves 1000km range.

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    Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  Isos on Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:07 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    hoom wrote:Severomorsk continues its diplomacy tour, now doing anti-piracy manoeuvres with a Japanese ship in Gulf of Aden http://charly015.blogspot.com/2018/11/rusos-y-japoneses-de-maniobras-en-el.html


    This piracy/diplomacy stuff is precisely why Navy need those cheap and cool Bykov-class offshore patrol vessels, it's stupid to waste destroyers on this trivial crap


    ALSO:

    I've been thinking, is it possible to install Kinzhal missiles in place for those Silex launches under the bridge on Udalois?

    They are smaller than Silex so they could maybe fit more than 8 and though they would loose a lot of range it would be enough to get the job done. Even with 50% loss it still leaves 1000km range.


    It would need a big booster to bring it high and at high speed. If the booster can send it where mig-31 usually launch it then all parameters will be the same.
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    Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  verkhoturye51 on Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:56 pm

    Replace anti-submarine missile system Metel (Silex) with ballistic missile Kinzhal (or navalised Tor, which is also called Kinzhal)? Am I missing something?

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    Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Dec 26, 2018 7:41 pm

    verkhoturye51 wrote:Replace anti-submarine missile system Metel (Silex) with ballistic missile Kinzhal (or navalised Tor, which is also called Kinzhal)? Am I missing something?


    Silex is already coming off, current plan is to install Uran launchers there (anti-ship)

    Anti-sub missiles will be in UKSK launchers
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    Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  GarryB on Thu Dec 27, 2018 5:17 am

    It could probably handle 6 Kinzhal missiles in each side launcher on either side of the bridge and there should be enough room for the missiles and a decent solid rocket booster there to restore and perhaps even extend its max range.

    That would mean 12 ready to fire Kinzhal missiles replacing the 8 Metel anti ship/anti sub missiles.

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