Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Udaloys and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Share

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15458
    Points : 16165
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Udaloys and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  GarryB on Fri Mar 11, 2011 4:58 am



    This is a video about the Admiral Chabanenko, which is a Udaloy class destroyer that starts off with a view of the ship from the ships helo. It then shows the operation of various weapon systems on board, starting from the front mounted ESM rocket suite firing chaff/flare/smoke rockets. Next the ship fires its 100mm automatic guns and then Kashtan fires and missile and then guns.

    The four large missile launchers either side of the bridge on this vessel are basically torpedo carrying rockets that deliver torpedoes out to submarines detected a distance away and are called SS-N-14. A conventional torpedo is then fired and then SS-N-15 which is the torpedo that is launched into the water that then climbs out of the water under rocket power and disappears into the clouds ( Cool ).

    If you look at the video above about the USUK launcher, the 91RTE2 missile that delivers a torpedo to the area where the target sub is located is the replacement for the SS-N-14 and the SS-N-15.

    Austin
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5664
    Points : 6070
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Age : 40
    Location : India

    Re: Udaloys and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  Austin on Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:38 am

    Udaloy class destroyer were quite balanced ship and with impressive senors/weapons suite.

    Vladimir79
    Grand Marshal
    Grand Marshal

    Posts : 2193
    Points : 3099
    Join date : 2009-07-10

    Re: Udaloys and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  Vladimir79 on Fri Mar 11, 2011 4:33 pm

    GarryB wrote:

    The four large missile launchers either side of the bridge on this vessel are basically torpedo carrying rockets that deliver torpedoes out to submarines detected a distance away and are called SS-N-14.

    Udaloy I carries Metel ASROC torpedoes, Chabanenko is is an Udaloy II which carries Moskit missiles instead.



    Last edited by Vladimir79 on Sat Mar 12, 2011 12:01 am; edited 1 time in total

    Vladimir79
    Grand Marshal
    Grand Marshal

    Posts : 2193
    Points : 3099
    Join date : 2009-07-10

    Re: Udaloys and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  Vladimir79 on Fri Mar 11, 2011 4:50 pm

    Austin wrote:Udaloy class destroyer were quite balanced ship and with impressive senors/weapons suite.

    With the addition of Kinzhal and Kashtan, it would take one hell of a missile strike to sink her. It is only CIWS though. She has no area defence capability. Addition of Moskit makes a good ASM platform, but no land attack. Instead of two ASW helos, she only carries one and the other is for targeting. The sonar is the best we have, but bulky. It is a good ASW ship.

    Austin
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5664
    Points : 6070
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Age : 40
    Location : India

    Re: Udaloys and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  Austin on Fri Mar 11, 2011 6:12 pm

    I am a great believer in a balanced ship with proportional sensor/weapon/range capability , rather then excel in one area or a single capability on that ship is given more preference over other.

    Looking out how the 22350 frigate and 20380 corvette is getting shaped , is the balances approach that wins over specialised ships , thats a right move and in the right direction.

    I just only hope they develop ships in block like block 1,2 etc with each block incrementally better then previous one but keeps standardisation to the maximum , that would help in maintaining the ship through out its entire life cycle of 30 years and becomes easier to block upgrade the ships when they are due for it.

    Aeiges is one good example of how block and incremental capability can be applied to a large number of standard ships , similarly even Indian Navy is developing the P-15 destroyer developed with russian assistance with similar capability where 3 P-15,3 P-15A ,4 P-15B destroyers have the maximum commonality in hull design , engines ,propulsion yet their electronic and weapons are modern for each of these class.

    Vladimir79
    Grand Marshal
    Grand Marshal

    Posts : 2193
    Points : 3099
    Join date : 2009-07-10

    Re: Udaloys and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sat Mar 12, 2011 12:08 am

    The most balanced ship with any economy is the French FREMM. Best ASW sensors and helo in the world, SCALP cruise missiles, Aster SAMs, even their Exocets have land attack capability. I want a stealth ship with VLS Klub land attack/anti-surface, Shtil-1, and the Thales 2076 sonar. That ship would kick ass.

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15458
    Points : 16165
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Udaloys and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  GarryB on Sat Mar 12, 2011 1:27 am


    Udaloy I carries Metel ASROC torpedoes, Chabanenko is is an Udaloy II which carries Moskit missiles instead.

    Why on earth did they change it to Moskits?

    They have plenty of Moskit platforms in the Sovremenny class, the Udaloy is designed as an anti sub ship why would they change its anti sub/antiship missiles for pure anti ship missiles?

    If they take out those quad launchers they should be able to fit at least two USUK launchers there... one on either side of the bridge. That would give them plenty of options for a variety of weapon loads for attacking ships, subs, and land targets.

    I thought the Udaloy had Kinzhal, why did they remove it from Udaloy II?

    I am a great believer in a balanced ship with proportional
    sensor/weapon/range capability , rather then excel in one area or a
    single capability on that ship is given more preference over other.

    The Soviets totally optimised their ships for a specific role but almost always gave it a variety of weapons to defend from all sorts of threats... most ships had depth charge launchers and torpedoes...

    Now that the Russian Navy has started standardising its weapons in vertical launch systems it will likely do the same with sensors to make them multi purpose which will make the vessels themselves multi role too.

    Vladimir79
    Grand Marshal
    Grand Marshal

    Posts : 2193
    Points : 3099
    Join date : 2009-07-10

    Re: Udaloys and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:21 am

    GarryB wrote:

    Udaloy I carries Metel ASROC torpedoes, Chabanenko is is an Udaloy II which carries Moskit missiles instead.

    Why on earth did they change it to Moskits?

    They have plenty of Moskit platforms in the Sovremenny class, the Udaloy is designed as an anti sub ship why would they change its anti sub/antiship missiles for pure anti ship missiles?

    Because it has RPK-2 to replace them. Why would it need two torpedo launch systems? Most of the servicable Sovremenny were sold to China.

    If they take out those quad launchers they should be able to fit at least two USUK launchers there... one on either side of the bridge. That would give them plenty of options for a variety of weapon loads for attacking ships, subs, and land targets.

    I am not familiar with the phrase USUK.

    I thought the Udaloy had Kinzhal, why did they remove it from Udaloy II?

    Kinzhal was added to all Udaloy, the first 4 Udaloy didn't even have SAMs.

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15458
    Points : 16165
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Udaloys and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  GarryB on Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:29 am

    The first four were fitted for but not with Kinzhal because it wasn't ready fast enough so the vessels went into service without them.

    The USUK is the bin launcher shown in post 2 above ...the second video above and is able to fire the missiles shown... basically the Klub family (subsonic and supersonic anti ship missiles and subsonic land attack missiles) and Brahmos/Oniks/Yakhont, and the 91RTE2 which is the replacement for the RPK-2 I think. It is also capable of launching Kh-101 and Kh-102 for very long range land attack capability which is not shown in the video above because their range exceeds 300km so they can't be exported, but they can be used on a Russian ship.

    The USUK bins are 2 by 4 bins that should fit easily below where the SS-N-14s/SS-N-22s were fitted so with two systems, one on either side of the bridge that means 16 weapons, which is a huge performance advantage over the existing ships as it could have 8 supersonic Brahmos as replacement for the Sunburns/Moskits and still have 8 bins left that could be used for land attack cruise missiles or anti sub torpedo ASROC style missiles, or even a mix of anti sub torpedo delivery missiles and land attack cruise missiles and mach 3 Klub anti ship missiles.

    The SS-N-15s would no longer be needed and could be replaced with PAKET anti torpedo torpedoes, or conventional torpedoes for closer range work.

    Actually watching the vid again I think that there would probably be room to fit two USUK launchers on each side of the bridge as the Udaloy class is quite big, so that means perhaps 32 tubes to be loaded with a combination of the ten or so missile options. Suddenly the Udaloy becomes a very versatile ship... especially if they add the vertical launcher bins for larger SAMs to be carried.

    KomissarBojanchev
    Lieutenant Colonel
    Lieutenant Colonel

    Posts : 986
    Points : 1139
    Join date : 2012-08-05
    Age : 19
    Location : Varna, Bulgaria

    Udaloys and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:22 pm

    Today the rastrub although having the nice feature of the ability to be used both as an asroc and an AshM its low performance makes it completely worthless today yet the krivaks and udaloys still have them. When will those missiles be withdrawn and when they are will all the krivaks and udaloys be scrapped or will they get upgraded with more modern weaponry like the ASW club and kh-35?

    TR1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5840
    Points : 5892
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    Re: Udaloys and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  TR1 on Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:14 pm

    Rastrub is much more advanced system than ASROC ever was. It is outdated by today's standard, and the launchers could be retrofitted with a more compact solution, but there is no plan to do so yet. The 1155s are the core of the surface fleet, so I guess they don't want to take them out of service for potentially long modernization. Even Kulakov (which entered service after rusting at pier for years) still has Ratsrub. Keep in mind they also employ torpedo launched anti ship missiles with longer range, so Rastrub is not the only ASW weapon of the 1155s.

    There are only about 3 "Krivaks" left in Navy service, so no point in modernizing them.

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15458
    Points : 16165
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Udaloys and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  GarryB on Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:26 am

    Actually the last models with IR guidance options are not stealthy by any means but on paper are rather capable systems.

    The suns location at any time is able to be calculated very accurately, so if you know the position of an enemy ship it would be fairly easy to launch such a missile at them and conceal the IR signature of the missile with the rising sun.

    Most ships don't sail around with all radars blasing as it reveals their position for thousands of kms, so an IR guided missile coming in from the sun would be a threat even today.

    Its primary role however is anti sub and in that role it is as effective as the torpedo that it carries... which I would suspect has been improved over time.

    To answer your question however the replacement is the UKSK vertical launch system that can carry land attack cruise missiles, anti ship missiles and anti sub missiles that deliver torpedoes.

    The Klub system includes two ASW weapons that consist of rockets that deliver Torpedoes to the target area. One is for surface launch from Ships and the other is for launch from submerged submarines. Both are ballistic rockets that fly at mach 2.5 to the target area that can be 40-50km from the launch vessel.

    The UKSK system has 8 tubes and can be fitted with ASW missiles as described above or anti ship missiles like the subsonic or supersonic Klub, or the anti ship supersonic Oniks/Yakhont/Brahmos, or the subsonic land attack Klub.

    For a surface ship the (domestic non export) ranges are 40km for the ASW, 2,500km and 1,500km for subsonic and supersonic anti ship respectively, 500-700km estimate for Oniks, 280-300km for export only Yakhont and Brahmos, and 2,500km for subsonic land attack Klub. The latter is sometimes called Kalibre.


    Upgraded ships like the Kirov class vessels will get UKSK launchers.

    For ships like late model Krivak the UKSK is likely along with vertical launch Shtil.

    Hopefully Shtil will eventually be integrated to Redut...


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    KomissarBojanchev
    Lieutenant Colonel
    Lieutenant Colonel

    Posts : 986
    Points : 1139
    Join date : 2012-08-05
    Age : 19
    Location : Varna, Bulgaria

    Re: Udaloys and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:37 pm

    TR1 wrote:Rastrub is much more advanced system than ASROC ever was. It is outdated by today's standard, and the launchers could be retrofitted with a more compact solution, but there is no plan to do so yet. The 1155s are the core of the surface fleet, so I guess they don't want to take them out of service for potentially long modernization. Even Kulakov (which entered service after rusting at pier for years) still has Ratsrub. Keep in mind they also employ torpedo launched anti ship missiles with longer range, so Rastrub is not the only ASW weapon of the 1155s.

    There are only about 3 "Krivaks" left in Navy service, so no point in modernizing them.


    But why is it better for them to stay in service constantly obsolete than modernize them for the future. Isnt the main soviet destroyer the sovremenny? Its better to have a small number of up to date ships in service than a large number of worthless outdated ones

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15458
    Points : 16165
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Udaloys and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  GarryB on Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:38 pm

    The Krivak forms the basis of the Talwar class and is still in production.

    With UKSK launchers and Shtil-1 vertical launchers and new sensors it is actually quite a capable vessel.

    The thing is that the new frigates in development are also very good and rather better than any upgraded older vessel could be, so I suspect the plan will be to keep the older vessels in service but not spend too much money on them.

    Once the production of the new frigates and destroyers is mastered they will start to be built in large numbers and the older vessels withdrawn and perhaps sold off.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    TR1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5840
    Points : 5892
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    Re: Udaloys and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  TR1 on Sat Aug 18, 2012 12:22 am

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:
    TR1 wrote:Rastrub is much more advanced system than ASROC ever was. It is outdated by today's standard, and the launchers could be retrofitted with a more compact solution, but there is no plan to do so yet. The 1155s are the core of the surface fleet, so I guess they don't want to take them out of service for potentially long modernization. Even Kulakov (which entered service after rusting at pier for years) still has Ratsrub. Keep in mind they also employ torpedo launched anti ship missiles with longer range, so Rastrub is not the only ASW weapon of the 1155s.

    There are only about 3 "Krivaks" left in Navy service, so no point in modernizing them.


    But why is it better for them to stay in service constantly obsolete than modernize them for the future. Isnt the main soviet destroyer the sovremenny? Its better to have a small number of up to date ships in service than a large number of worthless outdated ones

    1.) Money.
    2.) Priority to build new things.
    3.) The 1155s are pretty much the standard off shore deployment ships, so taking them out of service would not be good.

    1155 is still a superb ASW destroyer, I can't think of a better equipped foreign ship.

    Sovremmeny has only 3 active going ships, several more docked waiting repairs, and several more in bad shape awaiting money/scrapping. The class has propulsion issues, and hence has fallen out of favor to 1155.

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15458
    Points : 16165
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Udaloys and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  GarryB on Sat Aug 18, 2012 2:48 am

    The Sov and Udaloy were very well armed vessels, and while the Sov had engine issues, it is a well armed and well equipped vessel with powerful gun and missile armament.

    The cost of an upgrade would be significant and the result would not be as good as a new build ship, so it just makes sense to continue to operate them in their current form, repair them when they need it, but otherwise not spend too much money on them.

    A bit like the Army is doing with its T-80s.

    In both cases the T-80 and older ships can still do the job... for patrols or pirate hunting they are still very capable vessels.

    The Udaloys are particularly useful as they have two hangars and two helos which makes things easier.

    It would be very easy to put a UAV of some sort on board too and its support equipment, and that would improve performance at low cost.

    At the end of the day what they need are new small and medium sized vessels and tieing up the shipyards upgrading the existing vessels just makes that slower and more expensive... and results in a mishmash of upgraded and new vessels.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    George1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 9423
    Points : 9915
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Udaloys and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  George1 on Wed Jul 01, 2015 2:53 pm

    Upgraded large anti-submarine ships Project 1155 will be armed with cruise missiles "Caliber" and "Onyx"

    Udaloys don't have vertical launchers. So it will be a radical renovation i guess. So how costly it will be?


    Last edited by George1 on Sat Sep 05, 2015 2:36 am; edited 1 time in total


    _________________
    "There's no smoke without fire.", Georgy Zhukov


    George1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 9423
    Points : 9915
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Udaloys and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  George1 on Mon Aug 03, 2015 1:43 pm

    Udaloy class destroyer "Vice-Admiral Kulakov" has been tested after repairs


    _________________
    "There's no smoke without fire.", Georgy Zhukov


    artjomh
    Sergeant
    Sergeant

    Posts : 151
    Points : 187
    Join date : 2015-07-17

    Udaloys and Sovremennyy classes

    Post  artjomh on Mon Aug 03, 2015 5:49 pm

    George1 wrote:Upgraded large anti-submarine ships Project 1155 will be armed with cruise missiles "Caliber" and "Onyx"

    Udaloys don't have vertical launchers. So it will be a radical renovation i guess. So how costly it will be?

    Not necessarily vertical...


    George1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 9423
    Points : 9915
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Udaloys and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  George1 on Thu Sep 10, 2015 1:44 am

    Utilization of project 956 "Rastoropny"


    _________________
    "There's no smoke without fire.", Georgy Zhukov


    George1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 9423
    Points : 9915
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Udaloys and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  George1 on Sun Nov 08, 2015 10:12 am

    Two Project 956 Destroyers will be repaired under contract from Ministry of Defence


    _________________
    "There's no smoke without fire.", Georgy Zhukov


    Big_Gazza
    Lieutenant
    Lieutenant

    Posts : 507
    Points : 531
    Join date : 2014-08-25
    Location : Melbourne, Australia

    Re: Udaloys and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  Big_Gazza on Mon Nov 09, 2015 3:05 am

    artjomh wrote:
    George1 wrote:Upgraded large anti-submarine ships Project 1155 will be armed with cruise missiles "Caliber" and "Onyx"

    Udaloys don't have vertical launchers. So it will be a radical renovation i guess. So how costly it will be?

    Not necessarily vertical...


    Agreed. Consider the test launcher for BrahMos, installed to the IN Rajput (Kashin class frigate).


    Big_Gazza
    Lieutenant
    Lieutenant

    Posts : 507
    Points : 531
    Join date : 2014-08-25
    Location : Melbourne, Australia

    Re: Udaloys and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  Big_Gazza on Mon Nov 09, 2015 7:01 am

    artjomh wrote:
    George1 wrote:Upgraded large anti-submarine ships Project 1155 will be armed with cruise missiles "Caliber" and "Onyx"

    Udaloys don't have vertical launchers. So it will be a radical renovation i guess. So how costly it will be?

    Not necessarily vertical...


    Agreed. Consider the test launcher for BrahMos, installed to the INS Rajput (Kashin class frigate).


    max steel
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 2980
    Points : 3014
    Join date : 2015-02-12
    Location : South Pole

    Re: Udaloys and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  max steel on Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:25 pm

    Two long out of service destroyers (Bezboyaznenyi and Boyevoi) from the Pacific Fleet are in dock for some reason. There are only 3 active ships: 1 in Pacific, 1 in North, and 1 in Baltic.

    There are other ones that are still not taken off the inventory + have crews but they are not ready to go to sea. For example, Burny in the Pacific has been sitting @ Dalzavod for a decade waiting engine replacement/repair, with no luck to date. Bespokoiny in the Baltic looks to be in decent shape, but needs engine replacement, since it served as a donor to a sister ship.


    BTW, speaking of engines:

    http://twower.livejournal.com/1838195.html

    Since the Germans have stopped diesel engine deliveries to Russia, the next 22460 ships will have Chinese engines, until domestic equivalents are ready. Those Chinese engines happen to be licensed German engines themselves. lol1


    Dima
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1035
    Points : 1050
    Join date : 2012-03-22

    Re: Udaloys and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  Dima on Fri Nov 20, 2015 5:07 pm




    20.11.2015
    Major ASW ship Vice Admiral Kulakov entered the Red Sea

    Today the Northern Fleet major ASW ship Vice Admiral Kulakov performing tasks during a long-range cruise finished passing the Suez Canal from the Mediterranean Sea into the Red Sea and continued movement to the off-shore ocean zone.

    A day ago, the crew conducted training on damage control in movement, checked simulated suspicious vessel, and performed counterterrorist actions using small arms.

    Several days ago, the ship made an official visit to the port of Limassol (Cyprus) for rest and replenishment of water, food and fuel supplies.

    Since October 23, the major ASW ship Vice Admiral Kulakov has already passed over 5,5 thousand nautical miles, some of them under the conditions of stormy weather.
    http://eng.mil.ru/en/news_page/country/more.htm?id=12066368@egNews

    Hope it will stick around Aden for some time, maybe we can expect a Russian IL-76 or An-124 with humanitarian aid material in the coming days?
    But in that case, there is nothing medium or long-range AD missiles on 1155 for them to successfully keep off any Saudi coalition a/c from threatening any Russian transport aircraft.

    Posting it in Yemeni thread also..

    Sponsored content

    Re: Udaloys and Sovremennyy destroyers

    Post  Sponsored content Today at 11:11 am


      Current date/time is Sun Dec 04, 2016 11:11 am