Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    General Questions Thread:

    Share

    havok

    Posts : 73
    Points : 70
    Join date : 2010-09-20

    Re: General Questions Thread:

    Post  havok on Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:18 am

    GarryB wrote:
    F-35 RCS estimates for the X-band frontal aspect: .001 m2. The RCS of a small cruise missile is equivalent to about .1 m2.

    No, .001m2 is F-22 stealth, the F-35 is .01 which is still very good, but means nothing in the IR band nor the long wave bands OTH backscatter radars operate.
    No one knows the true RCS of either the F-22 or the F-35. And again...This 'long wavelength' thing is propaganda. Effective only for the gullible.

    havok

    Posts : 73
    Points : 70
    Join date : 2010-09-20

    Re: General Questions Thread:

    Post  havok on Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:21 am

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    IronsightSniper wrote:

    I wonder if the Bear saw the F-22 coming or not.

    F-22 with fuel tanks is not exactly VLO.

    Only if the seeking radar is looking at it. Other than AWACS, other airborne type radars are highly directional because they are usually mounted in the nose. The Bear never saw the F-22.
    avatar
    Vladimir79

    Posts : 2180
    Points : 3072
    Join date : 2009-07-10

    Re: General Questions Thread:

    Post  Vladimir79 on Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:32 am

    havok wrote:
    Only if the seeking radar is looking at it. Other than AWACS, other airborne type radars are highly directional because they are usually mounted in the nose. The Bear never saw the F-22.

    The Tu-95 has tail mounted PRS-4 warning radar. Considering the F-22 came up behind him with those non-CFTs, they can see it that close.
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16334
    Points : 16965
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: General Questions Thread:

    Post  GarryB on Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:33 am

    Again...Clearly spoken from a position of inexperience and ignorance. In an ESA system, the antenna is not the array. The antenna contains the array. There are peripheral components such as waveguides and if the antenna is moveable, there are motors that will fail.

    Blah blah blah. You still haven't said why a sealed pocket in the hollow radome could not be filled with rare earth gases and have electric currents run through them to form a plasma in front of the radar antenna to absorb radar waves to reduce RCS.

    Your argument make no sense. You clearly do not understand the context of the word 'emitter' in radar detection. A body will become an emitter when it deflect any impinging EM signals. That mean all wavelengths's behavior will be affected by shaping.

    A body will become a reflector when hit by energy from an emitter. Many radars are sophisticated enough to detect doppler shifts in reflections caused by the targets movement and use that doppler shift to determine the targets direction and speed from that.

    During the Yugoslavia bombing campaign, the B-2 flew from CONUS to Yugoslavia and back. Its capabilities and readiness records speaks loudly enough.

    Big deal? 2 billion per aircraft so they can operate from home?
    I guess delaying attacks by 12 hours so that bombers from the US can fly to the target area might seem valuable to you, but operating B-52s from Italy and they could have saved an enormous amount of fuel and cut down delay time by a factor of 4 at least.
    What a waste.

    Yes...Russia can thank US for those lucrative Iraqi oil contracts.

    Not really. They already had those contracts before the US killed all those Iraqis remember?

    An OTH system will not pick up any US 'stealth' aircraft.

    The Aussies claimed to have tracked B-2s.

    Nonsensical argument.

    Why is it nonsensical? You spend billions of dollars making an aircraft more stealthy from the front then operationally you fly high where ground based defences will see more of your belly than your front. Sounds like the F-35 was never intended to operate like an F-22 up high and super cruising. No surprise really because the US already has the F-22s so it doesn't need F-35s up there too.
    For users of the F-35 without F-22s however they might find the F-35 is not an F-22.

    No one knows the true RCS of either the F-22 or the F-35. And again...This 'long wavelength' thing is propaganda. Effective only for the gullible.

    So Russian ground based long wave AESA radars are for the gullible?

    189 F-22s, 20 B-2s... F-117s out of service... the US really doesn't seem to want to buy a large numbers of aircraft that are full stealth right now. Sure it is talking about replacing a lot of aircraft with F-35s but maybe that is a hoax to sell to NATO countries?

    Only if the seeking radar is looking at it. Other than AWACS, other airborne type radars are highly directional because they are usually mounted in the nose. The Bear never saw the F-22.

    Actually with a dozen sets of eyes on board the Bear is actually the aircraft most likely to SEE an F-22.

    Plus now who is the noob. Operationally the Bear would never have been intercepted by anything as it would arrive in its launch area about 4-6 hours after USAF bases were obliterated by ICBM and SLBM warheads. The ionisation of all those nuclear blasts would make radar a rather inefficient tool. And the 5,000km range of the missiles the Bear is carrying means that it will likely launch its missiles from so far away that any surviving F-22s will not get anywhere near it.

    mandeb48

    Posts : 3
    Points : 7
    Join date : 2010-12-12
    Location : Argentine

    Questions about Su-25Sm.

    Post  mandeb48 on Sun Dec 12, 2010 4:34 pm

    I'm trying to figure out which radio equip the Su-25Sm
    The only information I have comes from here: www.prima.nnov.ru
    Also: the Su-25Sm lost external pylons for the R60?

    Tanks
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16334
    Points : 16965
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: General Questions Thread:

    Post  GarryB on Sun Dec 12, 2010 11:11 pm

    AFAIK the R-60 pylons are replaced with pylons compatible with R-73.

    Radio equipment I am not sure about.

    mandeb48

    Posts : 3
    Points : 7
    Join date : 2010-12-12
    Location : Argentine

    Re: General Questions Thread:

    Post  mandeb48 on Mon Dec 13, 2010 12:37 am

    GarryB wrote:AFAIK the R-60 pylons are replaced with pylons compatible with R-73.
    Radio equipment I am not sure about.

    thanks for the reply
    I've only seen pictures of Su-25Sm with 8 pylons in the wings, not 10 as in the original Su-25
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16334
    Points : 16965
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: General Questions Thread:

    Post  GarryB on Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:25 am

    Actually that is the first time I have noticed that all the photos of the SM are 8 pylon.

    Of course it could be because of the low probability of meeting an enemy aircraft, but I would think they would keep the wing position for jamming pods like those fitted on the Su-25TM in lieu of AAMs.
    avatar
    medo

    Posts : 3194
    Points : 3284
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    Re: General Questions Thread:

    Post  medo on Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:51 pm

    No one knows the true RCS of either the F-22 or the F-35. And again...This 'long wavelength' thing is propaganda. Effective only for the gullible.
    [quote]

    I don't know for F-22 or F-35, but according to USAF long wavelenght P-12 and P-18 see Stealth F-117 and B-2 in 1999 war in Serbia and that is why F-117 and B-2 always have escort of EA-6 jammers.
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16334
    Points : 16965
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: General Questions Thread:

    Post  GarryB on Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:52 am

    And also why one of the first attack missions of Desert Storm was AH-64s sent in to take out some isolated radar stations.

    The issue with long wave radars is that they need to be rather large and are therefore easy to plot on a map and target early on.

    A bit like SAMs up until the 21st C where the missiles able to reach up high have been large expensive missile systems that can't be bought in enormous numbers and are hard to hide when fielded.
    A satellite recon photo shows these SAM sites and the long wave radars so you can either deal with them first, or bypass them and hit command and communications targets first to weaken the AD network before you have a go at radar and heavy SAM sites.
    avatar
    nightcrawler

    Posts : 535
    Points : 651
    Join date : 2010-08-20
    Age : 27
    Location : Pakistan

    Re: General Questions Thread:

    Post  nightcrawler on Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:24 am

    While reading about R-73 missiles I came across its guidance system which states:

    All-aspect infrared homing; & not just infrared homing; so what does the all-aspect stand for??

    Austin

    Posts : 6237
    Points : 6643
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    Re: General Questions Thread:

    Post  Austin on Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:33 am

    nightcrawler wrote:All-aspect infrared homing; & not just infrared homing; so what does the all-aspect stand for??

    Imaging Infrared (IIR Seeker ) , the new Russian AAM like RVV-MD have all aspect seeker.

    http://eng.ktrv.ru/production_eng/323/503/566/

    The missile features all-aspect passive IR guidance (two-color IR seeker) with combined aerogasdynamic control, a fixed-thrust solid fuel motor, a laser proximity fuse (for RVV-MDL) or a radar proximity fuse (for RVV-MD). The warhead is of rod type.
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16334
    Points : 16965
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: General Questions Thread:

    Post  GarryB on Thu Feb 03, 2011 6:42 am

    All-aspect infrared homing; & not just infrared homing; so what does the all-aspect stand for??

    Early IR seekers needed a very hot target to get a good lock so when you are going up against a fighter like an F-16 you had to be directly behind them looking right up their tailpipe to get a good lock. If you tried to lock on from the front your missile would not lock and if you launched it who knows where it would go.

    The R-73 like the later model R-60s and the Iglas have much more sensitive IR seekers that can detect a pattern of IR points on the surface of a target so instead of having to fire them from the rear aspect, you can fire them from any angle or aspect... which makes them an all aspect weapon.

    As shown with British use of the AIM-9L during the Falklands war even when you have an all aspect guided missile you greatly increase your chances of a kill if you fire it from close behind the target but if they had wanted to they could have fired at the target while the target was head on and getting closer to you.

    Obviously the seeker lock range of a head on target is much shorter than for a tail on target in a high power setting but obviously being able to lock on and fire without having to manouver to get on the enemy planes tail is a big of an advantage.

    The R-73 also uses a UV filter to distinguish the difference between flares that release lots of heat (IR) energy but they also generate UV light as well, whereas an aircraft gives off IR energy but not UV light.

    Imaging Infrared (IIR Seeker ) , the new Russian AAM like RVV-MD have all aspect seeker.

    Not exactly, an IIR seeker is an all aspect seeker, but the original R-73, and indeed the AIM-9L or M or R models that came after it are not IIR.

    The difference between an IR and IIR seeker is like the difference between a light detector and a camera CCD chip. A light detector... like an IR seeker will detect intense light/heat and its precise direction, but will not really know what it is seeing. With an old IR seeker if you flew in front of the sun the IR seeker was just as likely to fly at the new larger heat source and ignore your aircraft. A IR detector in an IR guided missile can be set to target points that were not particularly hot so flares and the sun will be ignored for example.
    An IIR seeker sees more than just points of heat and can generate an image of the target much like a thermal imager does and so when looking at an aircraft rather than seeing hot points of the engine exhaust and the corners of the leading edge of the wings where friction heats it up you get a view of an aircraft in the IR wavelength.

    Defence against all aspect IR missiles is a bundle of flares you hope will form a pattern the missile confuses for your aircraft.

    Defence against an IIR missile is DIRCMs or perhaps an anti missile missile.

    iS THIS REAL??
    or just a fantasy

    It is clearly a computer model, but the question is what is it a computer model of?

    It seems to me to be an attempt at a jet engine with a variable pitch turbine blade that goes from no pitch (ie no suction when the core spins) to high pitch (ie lots of suction when the core spins). Obviously it would be easier to make the materials warp in a computer animation than in real life however.
    avatar
    nightcrawler

    Posts : 535
    Points : 651
    Join date : 2010-08-20
    Age : 27
    Location : Pakistan

    Re: General Questions Thread:

    Post  nightcrawler on Thu Feb 03, 2011 11:40 am

    It is clearly a computer model, but the question is what is it a computer model of?

    It seems to me to be an attempt at a jet engine with a variable pitch turbine blade that goes from no pitch (ie no suction when the core spins) to high pitch (ie lots of suction when the core spins). Obviously it would be easier to make the materials warp in a computer animation than in real life however.

    Its hard for me to understand Russian; but google translation shows it as some sort off Radar blockers in the air-intakes; tuned either for more stealth or for more thrust I don't know yet!!
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16334
    Points : 16965
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: General Questions Thread:

    Post  GarryB on Fri Feb 04, 2011 1:38 am

    Its hard for me to understand Russian; but google translation shows it as some sort off Radar blockers in the air-intakes; tuned either for more stealth or for more thrust I don't know yet!!

    Ahhh.

    So what it is, is an engine blocker that hides a direct view of the engine.

    In a straight tube intake it is like looking down a straw at the front engine fan, so radar energy that goes down that tube hits the engine fan and comes straight out with a fairly strong radar reflection.

    One solution to this is to curve the intake so that the radar energy can't go straight in and hit the fan and come straight out back to the antenna. It means that any energy that comes back to the antenna has bounced several times in and out off the walls of the intake. Now as the intake walls will be covered in RAM every time it bounces it loses a few percent of energy and if it bounces 3 times in and three times on the way out that means the signal is reduced 6 x the performance of your RAM at absorbing energy. The shape of the intake trunk will be designed to maximise the number of times the signal bounces off the radar absorbing walls of the intake including a screen at the front that makes a lot of the energy bounce off or back in again... the result is that any energy actually getting back out of the intake will likely be weaker than the energy coming off other parts of the aircraft.

    This design you posted could be something that sits in the air intake trunk that is left straight when stealth is not so important but when it is rolled up (note the cog at the rear that winds the straight screens into a helix) it forms a helix like screen that radar energy would bounce around hundreds of times before it exits at the engine fan blade face to be reflected back through the helix... I rather doubt any radar energy would make it back to the emitter at all.

    The thing is that if this thing can be made to spin it will suck air in and improve airflow for the engine, in fact some air could be made to bypass the engine and it could act like a large turbofan.
    avatar
    nightcrawler

    Posts : 535
    Points : 651
    Join date : 2010-08-20
    Age : 27
    Location : Pakistan

    Re: General Questions Thread:

    Post  nightcrawler on Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:29 am

    plz someone explain this phenomenon I am unable for now!!

    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16334
    Points : 16965
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: General Questions Thread:

    Post  GarryB on Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:40 am

    Wiki is your friend... I must admit that the only engine injection I had read about before reading this was the injection of a spray of alcohol into the air intake of a Mig-25 to cool the air and add combustion potential when it hits the combustion chamber.

    Water injection has been used in both reciprocating and turbine aircraft engines.
    When used in a turbine engine, the effects are similar, except that
    preventing detonation is not the primary goal. Water is normally
    injected either at the compressor inlet or in the diffuser just before
    the combustion chambers. Adding water increases the mass being
    accelerated out of the engine, increasing thrust, but it also serves to
    cool the turbines. Since temperature is normally the limiting factor in
    turbine engine performance at low altitudes, the cooling effect allows
    the engines to be run at a higher RPM with more fuel injected and more
    thrust created without overheating.[2]
    The drawback of the system is that injecting water quenches the flame
    in the combustion chambers somewhat, as there is no way to cool the
    engine parts without cooling the flame accidentally. This leads to
    unburned fuel out the exhaust and a characteristic trail of black smoke.
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16334
    Points : 16965
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: General Questions Thread:

    Post  GarryB on Fri Feb 11, 2011 5:21 am

    The performance figures I have seen for the new missile are not radically different from Igla-S so it really wouldn't surprise me if from the outside it looked very similar.

    It has a new seeker... which from the outside might look the same, and its performance improvements are listed as a range of 0.5 –5.4km, an effective altitude of 0.01 –4.5 km and a missile speed of 500 m/s... the figures given for Igla are range of 0.5 –5.2km, an effective altitude of 0.01 –3.5 km and an average missile flight speed of 570 m/s which makes me suspect that the 500m/s is the new head on intercept speed which was 360-400m/s for the Igla.

    Based on this I would say the new missile could look almost identical to the Igla missile but with a new seeker and a slightly more powerful rocket motor and a slightly larger warhead. Hopefully it has the proximity fuse of the Igla-S too.

    Igla is already an excellent missile and this new seeker should make it very hard to defeat.

    BTW hope you feel better. We are relying on you... Very Happy

    Austin

    Posts : 6237
    Points : 6643
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    Re: General Questions Thread:

    Post  Austin on Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:04 am

    Well the person was irritated with me to see me the 2nd day and ask the same question ,where is "Verba" Smile

    Well this time around he sternly told me that they only talk of production system and not development system.

    He was a very knowledgeable person and he patiently replied to all my queries , quitely behind me as I was talking and asking questions , there was a retd Air Commodore who was quitely listening to our conversation and was impressed like he told me with the questions I asked , he thought I was in forces { sorry a bit of shameless self patting here Smile }

    The Air Commodore was has been a veteran and flew Mig-21 and 27 all through his life , so the conversation became more interesting since he personally knew Igla very well and they had participated in many exercises with IAF and Air Defence using Igla.

    I will sum up all about Igla as he told me and in the conversation we had later today.

    But here is a Ria Video of the new system

    http://rian.ru/video/20110213/333949870.html

    Medo I have many photograph and information latest Broacher on Russian system both civil and military as I spent a good amount of time perhaps the most in their booths talking to them , collecting information etc.

    I will post it in days ahead , just that I am back home work pressure has hit me for the 1 week off I took , so need to adress that first , rest assured I will post many good stuff in days and months ahead.

    Garry
    , Although I forgot to put this question to him but I think Brahmos does not travel at Mach 2.5 at low altitude ( 5 - 15 m ) but it does a Mach 1.5 - 1.8.

    It travels Mach 2.5-2.8 at high altitude and when it drops low it slows down , i think with a liquid fuel ramjet its easier to throttle the engine , the reason being the heat issue , Brahmos is not made of any special metal or material like Taitinium or exotic metal alloys to bear those heats.

    Yes 5 m is quite good for a big missile like brahmos , its really big I got a feel of it. Even if it does a Mach 1.5 at 5 m not many airdefence can beat it.

    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16334
    Points : 16965
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: General Questions Thread:

    Post  GarryB on Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:15 am

    Although I forgot to put this question to him but I think Brahmos does
    not travel at Mach 2.5 at low altitude ( 5 - 15 m ) but it does a Mach
    1.5 - 1.8.

    The current model Moskit (3M82) flys at mach 2.2 at low level so I thought it could at least manage that. Note the Sunburn (Ship launched Moskit) never flys higher than 300m so its speed of Mach 2.2 is definitely at low level... the first model Sunburn 3M80 had a high altitude speed of Mach 2.5 and a low level speed of about mach 1.8. The 3M82 however had a estimated high altitude speed of mach 3 and a low level speed of mach 2.2 but its primary target was 1980s AEGIS class cruisers armed with STANDARD SAMs... it was the low flight altitude that protected the missiles from the SAMs and the high flight speed that protected them from CIWS like Phalanx.

    Brahmos is not made of any special metal or material like Taitinium or exotic metal alloys to bear those heats

    It has a very small frontal area so ablative materials could be used for the short periods of high temperatures.

    Austin

    Posts : 6237
    Points : 6643
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    Re: General Questions Thread:

    Post  Austin on Mon Feb 14, 2011 3:37 pm

    Mi-26T2 vs Chinook ( Takeoff Magazine )

    Part-1
    Part-2
    Part-3

    Austin

    Posts : 6237
    Points : 6643
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    Re: General Questions Thread:

    Post  Austin on Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:08 pm

    GarryB wrote:Thanks for that Austin... I wasn't even aware they were thinking of developing the Ka-31 into a land recon radar platform to support army operations. Interesting also that the platform is used to test that self defence system. I can imagine the final aircraft will certainly need it... even in a low tech fight.

    This is the machine 231 they are talking about in land reco role ( via keypubs )


    Austin

    Posts : 6237
    Points : 6643
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    Re: General Questions Thread:

    Post  Austin on Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:11 pm

    I have been inside a Ka-31 AEW of the IN during AI 2005 , the entire cargo area is jam packed with electronic fitted with many boxes , very little space to move around.The cockpit is quite spacious though with loads of gizmos and flat lcd screen.

    Its an experience to be inside a Kamov.
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16334
    Points : 16965
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: General Questions Thread:

    Post  GarryB on Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:09 am

    This is the machine 231 they are talking about in land reco role ( via keypubs )

    Can see the rear turret for the Manta DIRCMs system and at the front a position for another turret or is that a turret on the left front?

    Its an experience to be inside a Kamov.

    So Jealous!!! Cool
    avatar
    nightcrawler

    Posts : 535
    Points : 651
    Join date : 2010-08-20
    Age : 27
    Location : Pakistan

    Re: General Questions Thread:

    Post  nightcrawler on Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:41 pm


    Name of middle missile??

    Sponsored content

    Re: General Questions Thread:

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:35 pm