GarryB wrote:So the AGS-57 will actually be comparable with the 82mm Vasilek in terms of HE fire power... that makes it orders of magnitude better than a 60mm mortar.
Thats right, only marginaly weaker but much lighter and with much higher rate of fire. It may act as effective replacement for 20 standard 8cm mortars, which fact may turn it into "mini MLRS"
GarryB wrote:Not true.
«Окутанные огнем и дымом, КВ неотвратимо двигались вперед, все сокрушая на своем пути. Снаряды тяжелых гаубиц не причиняли им никакого вреда»…
….«Один из КВ натолкнулся на небольшое болотце, в котором увяз Pz.35 (t), и, не колеблясь ни секунды, переехал вражескую машину. Та же участь постигла 150-мм гаубицу, которая не успела вовремя сменить позицию. Когда КВ-1 приближались, гаубица стреляла по ним в упор, не причиняя вреда. Один из танков пошел прямо на нее, и снаряд попал ему прямо в лобовую броню. Танк замер, будто в него ударила молния. Артиллеристы облегченно вдохнули, кто-то сказал : «Ему конец». «Да, этот получил свое», - согласился командир расчета. Но тут танк ожил и, громко лязгая гусеницами, снова двинулся вперед. Он смял тяжелое орудие, словно детскую игрушку, вдавил его в землю и исковеркал»
GarryB wrote:the few KVs that were destroyed were destroyed by 105mm artillery guns using HE rounds.
The only way they could achieve that is if they hit them at the top armor. Or if they damage tracks. Or if some hatches where open.
No they are not air tight, they usually have an overpressure system to ensure gas or chemicals from outside cannot enter, but that is not the same thing.
They are exactly airtight. Overpressure NBC protection system means (at least for the Russian tanks) that both intake and exhaust from crew compartment performed through controlled vents. That is why, on top of all, Russian tanks can drive underwater. And that prevents airburst from explosion reaching crew inside.
The British use a round called HESH, or HE squash head...
We are talking about entirely different things. Airburst overpressure from explosion was subject of debate. Not direct interraction of explosion vs tank armor. But still if you want to bring in HESH here you may do minimal research and discover why its nearly useless in composite armor era.
Modern spaced armour defeats HESH rounds and anti spall liners make them ineffective too, but the concept would still work if you had 50kgs of HE instead of 5kgs.
And that is why it defeats HE even better, rendering them nearly useless against modern tanks.
WWII tanks did not even have layered armour structures and would all be vulnerable to HESH... which was cheap, simple, required no super hard exotic metals, and did not need high velocity.
And HESH was not the case in that KV-1 story. It was anchient german 15cm HE shell.
A direct hit is required.
Exactly. You need it to detonate either directly under the tank. Or IED placed directly on its armor, at some weak spot like hull plates behind tracks. Engine compartment fits too.
Near miss will smash optics and destroy sensors and aerials and can damage the main gun and machine guns.
With great luck involved.
Direct hits to the top or sides or rear of the turret or hull can disable the vehicle and kill or serious shell shock crew.
Luck needed here too.
Even a HMG burst can blow off the tracks.
Not a chance. Even if 14,5mm involved.
105mm artillery was widely used to deal with KVs early on when it was found all the dedicated anti armour guns like 37mm and 50mm guns had no effect.
And the only way they could help is shooting them at the sides or achieve lucky hit from the top during artillery barrages. No way it could destroy KVs if hit them in their front armor with HE round.
Even its AP round was barely enough to deal with soviet heavy tanks from their flanks.
For 15cm guns they had wide set of HEAT rounds, exactly because of poor performance HE rounds have against heavy armor.
It was rapidly found that the best weapons were 88mm anti aircraft guns...
Because of superior ballistics over 10,5/15cm howitzers and good AP rounds avaiable.
I am not sure of the figure for steel armour but I would say pressure waves move even faster through steel plate.
Steel is solid matter, to say the least. It does not transfers pressure the way liquids and gases do. External pressure applie over tank structure is absorbed by it.
Air is compressible and absorbs the blast effect... water and hard materials transfer the energy directly and without absorbing the force.
Nope. Just as gas, liquid fills every bit of space it can reach. And that is why it transfers pressure perfectly. Solid matter such as steel need to be deformed in order to transfer pressure. Imagine tank as airtight steel sphere, you need a LOT of external pressure to compress it at least a bit. And you will never get significant fraction of external pressure inside the sphere anyway.
that is why cars have crumple zones to absorb the energy (ie speed) of an impact.
You understanding of physics is seriously 4ucked up.
Which counts for nothing if the explosion blows the turret off.
If your grandmother would have testicules, she will be your grandfather.
You need much more than 15cm artillery shell to blow off turret of any tank created within last 60 years.
you just need to look at the failure of the KV-2 to see why they went for penetration rather than brute force HE
KV-2 never intended for anti-tank roles.
A dozen... possibly... 2 metres... no. a shell hitting the ground 2 metres away from men in a trench will find their trench collapse.
2 meters is well within radius of crater 152mm shells create in most soils. I was hinting you on AIRBURST created by its explosion not it smashing troops in trenches by direct hit, which 2 meters is certainly is.
So Soviet artillery units carrying APHE rounds for direct fire use is a myth?
You do know the difference between APHE and HE?
Never say never... Soviet 152mm guns unlike western artillery operated on the front line and supported operations with direct fire
Not the case for many many decades.
the risk of coming up against an enemy tank was actually very high and they had the ammo type to deal with that situation.
If you talking about ISU-152 then you should look at what kind of armor it had in front. Not like WW2 nazi tanks, even heaviest, was tough enough to survive 152mm HE rounds. Case is, post WW2 and modern tanks are MUCH better protected and rendered HE and even HESH nearly useless against them. That is why you do not see vehicles in ISU-152 class for a long time BTW.