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    BMP-3 in Russian Army

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    GarryB
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    Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  GarryB on Sat Aug 29, 2015 11:17 am

    It wouldn't really work.

    Two main problems... first of all the fitting of the 100mm rifled medium gun in a slightly offset centre position led to problems with cracking because recoil was not centred so were concentrated in places it should not have been.

    To add a 45mm or 57mm gun would be much worse as these would be much more powerful guns with much more recoil.

    the second problem of course is that the 40 rounds the BMP-3M carries of 100mm HE shells occupies most of the lower turret area so if you are keeping the 100mm gun there would be no room for 45mm rounds or 57mm rounds for that matter... 220 of which would actually take up more internal space than the 40 x 100mm rounds which are actually smaller.

    In any case the 45mm and 57mm would be a good replacement for both the 30mm cannons and 100mm cannons. while they don't have the enormous rate of fire of the 30mm gun the guided shells means the kill probability is much higher with aimed single shots, and while each shot is not as powerful as a 100mm shell the high hit probability means fewer shots will result in more effective damage because you will be hitting what you are aiming for.


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    Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  George1 on Wed Sep 09, 2015 6:20 am

    At the opening September 9, 2015 in Nizhny Tagil, Russia Arms Expo 2015 (RAE-2015), OAO "Kurgan Machine-Building Plant" will demonstrate two new versions of the BMP-3, referred to as "Dragoon" and "Derivation".

    "Derivation": BMP-3 with 57-mm automatic cannon (apparently, the A-220M).
    "Dragoon": Reconstruction of BMP-3's to locate the engine compartment at the front and with the installation of remote-controlled weapon stations, preserving the main armament of the BMP-3, 100mm gun 2A70, and coupled with her 30mm automatic cannon 2A72.

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1466877.html


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    Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  Book. on Wed Sep 09, 2015 11:10 am

    George1 wrote:At the opening September 9, 2015 in Nizhny Tagil, Russia Arms Expo 2015 (RAE-2015), OAO "Kurgan Machine-Building Plant" will demonstrate two new versions of the BMP-3, referred to as "Dragoon" and "Derivation".

    "Derivation": BMP-3 with 57-mm automatic cannon (apparently, the A-220M).
    "Dragoon": Reconstruction of BMP-3's to locate the engine compartment at the front and with the installation of remote-controlled weapon stations, preserving the main armament of the BMP-3, 100mm gun 2A70, and coupled with her 30mm automatic cannon 2A72.

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1466877.html


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    KoTeMoRe
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    Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Wed Sep 09, 2015 11:15 am

    Book. wrote:
    George1 wrote:At the opening September 9, 2015 in Nizhny Tagil, Russia Arms Expo 2015 (RAE-2015), OAO "Kurgan Machine-Building Plant" will demonstrate two new versions of the BMP-3, referred to as "Dragoon" and "Derivation".

    "Derivation": BMP-3 with 57-mm automatic cannon (apparently, the A-220M).
    "Dragoon": Reconstruction of BMP-3's to locate the engine compartment at the front and with the installation of remote-controlled weapon stations, preserving the main armament of the BMP-3, 100mm gun 2A70, and coupled with her 30mm automatic cannon 2A72.

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1466877.html


    New 30/100 turret!  Surprised

    New front bolt-on protection....Da, Da, Da!
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    Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  Book. on Wed Sep 09, 2015 11:36 am

    Yup. the front engine!

    to protect thumbsup
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    Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  George1 on Thu Sep 10, 2015 1:33 pm

    Russia develops world’s most maneuverable infantry combat vehicle

    Unlike the majority of foreign infantry combat vehicles, the Dragun has retained its floatability and capacity to cross rivers


    NIZHNY TAGIL, September 10. /TASS-DEFENSE/. An advanced version of the Russian infantry combat vehicle BMP-3, designated as Dragun, has become the most maneuverable in the world. This conclusion was made on the basis of the Dragun’s tactical characteristics released for the first time at the Russia Arms Expo-2015 international exhibition.

    The advanced infantry combat vehicle was fitted out with the UDT-32T diesel engine with bench power of 816 hp. As a result, the Dragun’s power-weight ratio reaches 38 hp/ton.

    The power-weight ratio of the US M2A3 Bradley IFV equals 19.74 hp/ton, the German Puma 25.5-34.59 hp/ton, the French VBCI 18.6 hp/ton and the British FV510 Warrior 23.5 hp/ton.

    Unlike the majority of foreign infantry combat vehicles, the Dragun has retained its floatability and capacity to cross rivers.

    This version of the BMP-3 is also equipped with a prototype of a remote-controlled combat module with cannon armament.


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    higurashihougi
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    Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  higurashihougi on Thu Sep 10, 2015 1:42 pm

    TASS wrote:Unlike the majority of foreign infantry combat vehicles, the Dragun has retained its floatability and capacity to cross rivers

    What should I say, most of Western IFV dunno how to swim Cool Cool
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    Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Sep 10, 2015 5:30 pm

    Looks like GarryB, and myself were wrong. We thought that the front-engined BMP-3 configuration would lead to sacrificing the ability to float and cross rivers, thankfully I'm glad to be wrong on this issue. Smile
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    Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  Regular on Thu Sep 10, 2015 7:07 pm

    Finally BMP-3 gets some love it deserve! Very nice to see this calibrate being brought to life for land forces

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    Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  victor1985 on Thu Sep 10, 2015 7:11 pm

    [quote="GarryB"]It wouldn't really work.

    Two main problems... first of all the fitting of the 100mm rifled medium gun in a slightly offset centre position led to problems with cracking because recoil was not centred so were concentrated in places it should not have been.

    To add a 45mm or 57mm gun would be much worse as these would be much more powerful guns with much more recoil.

    the second problem of course is that the 40 rounds the BMP-3M carries of 100mm HE shells occupies most of the lower turret area so if you are keeping the 100mm gun there would be no room for 45mm rounds or 57mm rounds for that matter... 220 of which would actually take up more internal space than the 40 x 100mm rounds which are actually smaller.

    In any case the 45mm and 57mm would be a good replacement for both the 30mm cannons and 100mm cannons. while they don't have the enormous rate of fire of the 30mm gun the guided shells means the kill probability is much higher with aimed single shots, and while each shot is not as powerful as a 100mm shell the high hit probability means fewer shots will result in more effective damage because you will be hitting what you are aiming for.[/quote]
    can be put two guns on top of each other while manevrate each separate?
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    Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Sep 10, 2015 7:13 pm

    Regular wrote:Finally BMP-3 gets some love it deserve! Very nice to see this calibrate being brought to life for land forces

    Almost certainly slated for export, unless they order more BMP-3's which to me would be a mistake when you have Kurganets-25 around the corner.
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    Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  Regular on Thu Sep 10, 2015 7:18 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Regular wrote:Finally BMP-3 gets some love it deserve! Very nice to see this calibrate being brought to life for land forces

    Almost certainly slated for export, unless they order more BMP-3's which to me would be a mistake when you have Kurganets-25 around the corner.
    Wasn't long ago when they ordered some of them
    http://tass.ru/en/russia/794151
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    Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  Book. on Thu Sep 10, 2015 7:26 pm

    БМП-3М Драгун окончательный дисплей
    BMP-3 Dragoon the Pic Layout. New 800HP!

    09.11.2015 01:20:48

    [Image From: vestnik-rm.ru]

















    I luv the 30/100

    New door + 800HP!
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    Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Sep 10, 2015 7:32 pm

    Regular wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Regular wrote:Finally BMP-3 gets some love it deserve! Very nice to see this calibrate being brought to life for land forces

    Almost certainly slated for export, unless they order more BMP-3's which to me would be a mistake when you have Kurganets-25 around the corner.
    Wasn't long ago when they ordered some of them
    http://tass.ru/en/russia/794151

    Who knows if they want a front-engined BMP-3, they may as well get a Kurganets-25.
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    Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  George1 on Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:39 pm

    so the new BMP-3s that Russian Army ordered will be this model??


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    Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  mutantsushi on Thu Sep 10, 2015 10:37 pm

    I was also curious about the most recent BMP-3 order, if they are going for the new engine layout +/+ unmanned turret, or keeping fleet commonality...?
    It's clearly a stop gap until Kurganets IFV is fully ready (for which 30mm Epoch seems to be produced first, before a heavier 57mm and/or 100+30mm model)
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    Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  OminousSpudd on Thu Sep 10, 2015 10:58 pm

    The sheer plethora of different armour coming out of Russia at the moment is really putting everyone else to shame. Cool

    Da for innovation.
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    Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  Book. on Thu Sep 10, 2015 11:57 pm

    mutantsushi wrote:I was also curious about the most recent BMP-3 order, if they are going for the new engine layout +/+ unmanned turret, or keeping fleet commonality...?

    It's clearly a stop gap until Kurganets IFV is fully ready (for which 30mm Epoch seems to be produced first, before a heavier 57mm and/or 100+30mm model)

    No sure but I read the note.
    Mod order 200-300 BMP 3

    Dragoon shame the US Nato lol1

    K25 even better! russia

    @Papadragon post 916
    http://www.russiadefence.net/t4033p915-russian-military-photos-and-videos

    More pic here



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    Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:52 am

    Book. wrote:БМП-3М Драгун окончательный дисплей
    BMP-3 Dragoon the Pic Layout. New 800HP!

    09.11.2015 01:20:48

    [Image From: vestnik-rm.ru]

















    I luv the 30/100

    New door + 800HP!

    Rear doors show crazy armour for structural weight. Russians, witchcraft isn't allowed.
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    TheArmenian
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    Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  TheArmenian on Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:57 am

    Book. wrote:








    What are the 2 extensions at the back on both sides of the doors?
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    Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Fri Sep 11, 2015 12:02 pm

    Possibly Aircon and Comms with Crew. Serves also as protection for desants.
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    Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  GarryB on Fri Sep 11, 2015 12:08 pm

    The extensions are probably to prevent enemies shooting into the rear of the vehicle from a wide range of angles when the rear doors are open.

    I suspect this new design of the BMP-3M would be a bit like Pantsir-S1 where foreign money has perfected a system beyond what Russian Army money would have been spent to create, but that the fruits of their labour will eventually benefit the Russian military and the international export market.

    This version will no doubt be modular and allow export well before the Kurganets or Boomerang or Armata or Typhoon vehicles are ready for export.

    The three crew positions likely share some commonality with the systems mounted in the new vehicle families saving costs with larger production runs.


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    Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  Book. on Fri Sep 11, 2015 7:58 pm

    TheArmenian wrote:What are the 2 extensions at the back on both sides of the doors?

    I think fuel tank
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    Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  flamming_python on Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:55 pm

    Book. wrote:
    TheArmenian wrote:What are the 2 extensions at the back on both sides of the doors?

    I think fuel tank

    Would make sense, AFAIK the fuel tank was part of the door in the BMP-1/2 series at least (not sure about BMP-3), so they would probably have the fuel somewhere nearby in that region one way or the other.
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    Re: BMP-3 in Russian Army

    Post  Werewolf on Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:57 pm

    Those two rear bulks could also fit smoke screen APS system similiar like on Kurgnets, T-14 and T-15 to camoflauge vehicle from top attack weapons of IR/IIR spectrum. Not exclusive for that system but i think it could be accomodated in there nicely and compact.

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