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    BMP-3 in Russian Army

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:33 am

    There was a picture of it somewhere I think... the round is basically like the 100mm round from the BMP-3... it is mostly projectile with a small stub propellent case because muzzle velocity is not really important, but shell weight is.

    It means they could probably carry 3-4 times more grenade HE rounds in the space 57mm high velocity shells would take up because of their enormous shell cases needed to generate high muzzle velocity.

    I seem to remember the comment that the 57mm grenade round had more HE power than a 76.2mm artillery shell.

    The 57mm AA gun round (ie S-60) had about 2.8kgs of HE... improvements in design and explosives means they should probably manage a 3-4kg equivalent payload with the new ammo.

    The naval 57mm gun has a 2.8kg HE round, while the 76.2mm gun has a 5.9kg HE round... so I would expect the new 57mm grenade launcher to pack about 6-7kgs of HE power.
    Cyberspec
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    Post  Cyberspec on Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:58 am

    Haven't seen this before....BMP-3 with Ataka missiles (pic from 2017)

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 8 BMP-3M_Ataka_9M120-1_anti-tank_missiles_Army-2017_International_Military_Technical_Forum_Moscow_Russia_925_001
    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 8 BMP-3M_Ataka_9M120-1_anti-tank_missiles_Army-2017_International_Military_Technical_Forum_Moscow_Russia_925_002
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:42 pm

    That is quite odd really considering it can fire gun launched missiles through its main gun, but I guess externally mounted missiles can be bigger better performing weapons for targets that require a bit more ummpf...

    Kornet-EM could reach to 10km targets for instance and Ataka and Shturm are reportedly rather cheap and with new optics and control systems are rather more accurate than they used to be... which was good at the time anyway...

    The interesting implication with it mounted there is that presumably the commander can aim and fire it with his sight while the gunner can engage other targets including with missiles too.

    Perhaps they are intended to be used against enemy helicopters or slow flying aircraft...
    Regular
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    Post  Regular on Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:08 pm

    GarryB wrote:That is quite odd really considering it can fire gun launched missiles through its main gun, but I guess externally mounted missiles can be bigger better performing weapons for targets that require a bit more ummpf...

    Kornet-EM could reach to 10km targets for instance and Ataka and Shturm are reportedly rather cheap and with new optics and control systems are rather more accurate than they used to be... which was good at the time anyway...

    The interesting implication with it mounted there is that presumably the commander can aim and fire it with his sight while the gunner can engage other targets including with missiles too.

    Perhaps they are intended to be used against enemy helicopters or slow flying aircraft...

    BMP-3 has much better solution how to counter helicopters than ATGMs. Afaik MANPADS can be easily fired from top hatches by infantry and it would be many yimes more effective
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    Post  0nillie0 on Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:37 pm

    Regular wrote:
    GarryB wrote:That is quite odd really considering it can fire gun launched missiles through its main gun, but I guess externally mounted missiles can be bigger better performing weapons for targets that require a bit more ummpf...

    Kornet-EM could reach to 10km targets for instance and Ataka and Shturm are reportedly rather cheap and with new optics and control systems are rather more accurate than they used to be... which was good at the time anyway...

    The interesting implication with it mounted there is that presumably the commander can aim and fire it with his sight while the gunner can engage other targets including with missiles too.

    Perhaps they are intended to be used against enemy helicopters or slow flying aircraft...

    BMP-3 has much better solution how to counter helicopters than ATGMs. Afaik MANPADS can be easily fired from top hatches by infantry and it would be many yimes more effective

    This upgrade was originally intended for BMP-2M (sb4-3) offered for export since some years now. Recently it has been adapted on Bakhcha-U combat module (version used in BMD-4M and offered on BMP-3M now) as well, as seen in that picture. The main purpose of this combat module according to Rosoboronexport is to engage tanks or other heavy armored targets with Ataka-T supersonic laser beam-riding ATGM. Ataka-T also means capability to fire the 9M120M tandem HEAT round which is faster but also somewhat less powerful and probably cheaper than its "Kornet counterpart", but more powerful than the Bastion GLATGM.

    The platform is fully stabilized, which was already a major advantage over the ATGM launcher of the BMP-2 in terms of practical use. What exactly the advantages are over 9M117 of BMP-3, other than penetration, could perhaps be explained by a more knowledgeable person here, but perhaps it also has to do with guidance. 9M117 is notoriously hard to use on the move, and perhaps Ataka is more practical in that way (tho AFAIK both are beam riding SACLOS).

    Additionally, as mentioned by Garry, the launch platform can rotate 360 degrees, implying it could be fired/guided using the commander's panoramic sight of the Bakhcha-U combat module. Two important notes here are that the commander sight needs to equipped with sensors that are compatible with Ataka launcher for effective guidance. For example, for use of the above line of sight attack mode of Ataka missile, range to target must be measured before launch. This would imply the requirement of a laser range finder, which AFAIK is not installed by default in the commander sight of the BMD-4M. Additionally, the position of the platform creates a blind spot for the commander sight....which is also far from ideal.

    IMHO this upgrade made some sense for the BMP-2 (though the KBP upgrade with Berezhok combat module and Kornet is IMHO superior).
    For BMP-3 i don't think it will see much success with Russian forces, but perhaps some export customer which already uses Ataka in anti tank role? IMHO it would make more sense just to add dual Kornet launchers on the side of the turret as seen already on BMP-2M which is accepted for service. Latest version of Kornet is significantly more capable than Bastion...but probably more expensive Smile.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:29 am

    Yes, I think it is significant that they have attached the launch tubes to the commander sight... perhaps it is so enemy aircraft like attack helos can be engaged when detected, rather than waiting for the gunner to engage...

    The late model Ataka uses laser beam riding guidance like the Kornet and the Bastion, which would be a good choice for guidance against attack helos... not only are they supersonic but would not be effected by DIRCMS like a MANPADS would be...

    I would expect the laser beam riding guidance would be provided by an upgraded commanders sight otherwise it would totally defeat the purpose of fitting it to the commanders sight as the tank turret would need to be turned to allow the gunner sight to point a laser at the target for the missile to follow.

    Having a laser in the commanders sight is perfectly sensible and normal because he needs to determine ranges of targets and threats he detects anyway.
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    Post  Cyberspec on Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:56 am

    BMP-3's to receive Active Protection during planned upgrades...

    TSAMTO, 13 Aug. Russian infantry fighting vehicle BMP-3 during upgrading will get new means of active protection, have informed "RIA Novosti" Director of the industrial cluster of conventional arms, ammunition and special chemistry of state Corporation rostec Sergey Abramov.

    "The modernization potential of the BMP-3 is far from exhausted. Currently, the developed system of protection against ballistic weapons, RPG-7, SPG-9, the possibility of increasing the passive protection as well as the issue of integration of means of active protection," – said to "RIA Novosti" Sergei Abramov.

    http://www.armstrade.org/includes/periodics/news/2019/0813/123053871/detail.shtml

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