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    BMP-3 in Russian Army

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:33 am

    There was a picture of it somewhere I think... the round is basically like the 100mm round from the BMP-3... it is mostly projectile with a small stub propellent case because muzzle velocity is not really important, but shell weight is.

    It means they could probably carry 3-4 times more grenade HE rounds in the space 57mm high velocity shells would take up because of their enormous shell cases needed to generate high muzzle velocity.

    I seem to remember the comment that the 57mm grenade round had more HE power than a 76.2mm artillery shell.

    The 57mm AA gun round (ie S-60) had about 2.8kgs of HE... improvements in design and explosives means they should probably manage a 3-4kg equivalent payload with the new ammo.

    The naval 57mm gun has a 2.8kg HE round, while the 76.2mm gun has a 5.9kg HE round... so I would expect the new 57mm grenade launcher to pack about 6-7kgs of HE power.
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    Post  Cyberspec on Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:58 am

    Haven't seen this before....BMP-3 with Ataka missiles (pic from 2017)

    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 8 BMP-3M_Ataka_9M120-1_anti-tank_missiles_Army-2017_International_Military_Technical_Forum_Moscow_Russia_925_001
    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 8 BMP-3M_Ataka_9M120-1_anti-tank_missiles_Army-2017_International_Military_Technical_Forum_Moscow_Russia_925_002
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:42 pm

    That is quite odd really considering it can fire gun launched missiles through its main gun, but I guess externally mounted missiles can be bigger better performing weapons for targets that require a bit more ummpf...

    Kornet-EM could reach to 10km targets for instance and Ataka and Shturm are reportedly rather cheap and with new optics and control systems are rather more accurate than they used to be... which was good at the time anyway...

    The interesting implication with it mounted there is that presumably the commander can aim and fire it with his sight while the gunner can engage other targets including with missiles too.

    Perhaps they are intended to be used against enemy helicopters or slow flying aircraft...
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    Post  Regular on Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:08 pm

    GarryB wrote:That is quite odd really considering it can fire gun launched missiles through its main gun, but I guess externally mounted missiles can be bigger better performing weapons for targets that require a bit more ummpf...

    Kornet-EM could reach to 10km targets for instance and Ataka and Shturm are reportedly rather cheap and with new optics and control systems are rather more accurate than they used to be... which was good at the time anyway...

    The interesting implication with it mounted there is that presumably the commander can aim and fire it with his sight while the gunner can engage other targets including with missiles too.

    Perhaps they are intended to be used against enemy helicopters or slow flying aircraft...

    BMP-3 has much better solution how to counter helicopters than ATGMs. Afaik MANPADS can be easily fired from top hatches by infantry and it would be many yimes more effective
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    Post  0nillie0 on Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:37 pm

    Regular wrote:
    GarryB wrote:That is quite odd really considering it can fire gun launched missiles through its main gun, but I guess externally mounted missiles can be bigger better performing weapons for targets that require a bit more ummpf...

    Kornet-EM could reach to 10km targets for instance and Ataka and Shturm are reportedly rather cheap and with new optics and control systems are rather more accurate than they used to be... which was good at the time anyway...

    The interesting implication with it mounted there is that presumably the commander can aim and fire it with his sight while the gunner can engage other targets including with missiles too.

    Perhaps they are intended to be used against enemy helicopters or slow flying aircraft...

    BMP-3 has much better solution how to counter helicopters than ATGMs. Afaik MANPADS can be easily fired from top hatches by infantry and it would be many yimes more effective

    This upgrade was originally intended for BMP-2M (sb4-3) offered for export since some years now. Recently it has been adapted on Bakhcha-U combat module (version used in BMD-4M and offered on BMP-3M now) as well, as seen in that picture. The main purpose of this combat module according to Rosoboronexport is to engage tanks or other heavy armored targets with Ataka-T supersonic laser beam-riding ATGM. Ataka-T also means capability to fire the 9M120M tandem HEAT round which is faster but also somewhat less powerful and probably cheaper than its "Kornet counterpart", but more powerful than the Bastion GLATGM.

    The platform is fully stabilized, which was already a major advantage over the ATGM launcher of the BMP-2 in terms of practical use. What exactly the advantages are over 9M117 of BMP-3, other than penetration, could perhaps be explained by a more knowledgeable person here, but perhaps it also has to do with guidance. 9M117 is notoriously hard to use on the move, and perhaps Ataka is more practical in that way (tho AFAIK both are beam riding SACLOS).

    Additionally, as mentioned by Garry, the launch platform can rotate 360 degrees, implying it could be fired/guided using the commander's panoramic sight of the Bakhcha-U combat module. Two important notes here are that the commander sight needs to equipped with sensors that are compatible with Ataka launcher for effective guidance. For example, for use of the above line of sight attack mode of Ataka missile, range to target must be measured before launch. This would imply the requirement of a laser range finder, which AFAIK is not installed by default in the commander sight of the BMD-4M. Additionally, the position of the platform creates a blind spot for the commander sight....which is also far from ideal.

    IMHO this upgrade made some sense for the BMP-2 (though the KBP upgrade with Berezhok combat module and Kornet is IMHO superior).
    For BMP-3 i don't think it will see much success with Russian forces, but perhaps some export customer which already uses Ataka in anti tank role? IMHO it would make more sense just to add dual Kornet launchers on the side of the turret as seen already on BMP-2M which is accepted for service. Latest version of Kornet is significantly more capable than Bastion...but probably more expensive Smile.
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    Post  GarryB on Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:29 am

    Yes, I think it is significant that they have attached the launch tubes to the commander sight... perhaps it is so enemy aircraft like attack helos can be engaged when detected, rather than waiting for the gunner to engage...

    The late model Ataka uses laser beam riding guidance like the Kornet and the Bastion, which would be a good choice for guidance against attack helos... not only are they supersonic but would not be effected by DIRCMS like a MANPADS would be...

    I would expect the laser beam riding guidance would be provided by an upgraded commanders sight otherwise it would totally defeat the purpose of fitting it to the commanders sight as the tank turret would need to be turned to allow the gunner sight to point a laser at the target for the missile to follow.

    Having a laser in the commanders sight is perfectly sensible and normal because he needs to determine ranges of targets and threats he detects anyway.
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    Post  Cyberspec on Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:56 am

    BMP-3's to receive Active Protection during planned upgrades...

    TSAMTO, 13 Aug. Russian infantry fighting vehicle BMP-3 during upgrading will get new means of active protection, have informed "RIA Novosti" Director of the industrial cluster of conventional arms, ammunition and special chemistry of state Corporation rostec Sergey Abramov.

    "The modernization potential of the BMP-3 is far from exhausted. Currently, the developed system of protection against ballistic weapons, RPG-7, SPG-9, the possibility of increasing the passive protection as well as the issue of integration of means of active protection," – said to "RIA Novosti" Sergei Abramov.

    http://www.armstrade.org/includes/periodics/news/2019/0813/123053871/detail.shtml
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    Post  Austin on Wed Sep 18, 2019 1:58 pm

    Russia’s Latest Amphibious Tracked Vehicles

    https://mdb.cast.ru/mdb/1-2019/item2/article5/


    Sergey Abdulov


    Over the years, the BMP-3 and BMP-3F infantry fighting vehicles have earned themselves a reputation with the Russian and foreign navies as excellent armor well-suited for amphibious landing operations. For example, in one unprecedented case during an exercise in the early 2000s, UAE marines conducted an amphibious landing operation in BMP-3 vehicles during a heavy storm, with waves reaching 3-4 meters high. Forty-two of the 43 vehicles made a successful landing.

    But modern warfare presents ever more stringent requirements. One of them is the ability to conduct “over-the-horizon” amphibious landing operations, when landing vehicles leave the mothership 40-60km from the target and sail at maximum speed to the landing area instead of being dropped off right near the coastline. This reduces the risk of numerous vehicles being destroyed as they try to land. Also, marines must now be equipped with hardware that can provide fire support during landing rather than serve as mere transports.

    Russia’s Kurganmashzavod and the Special Machinery Design Bureau (SKBM) have developed a whole family of such vehicles using the BMP-3 platform as a starting point. They used many of the standard BMP-3 parts and components, which offers clear advantages in terms of both operation and maintenance. All these vehicles can be airlifted by Il-76MD or equivalent transports. They have an autonomy of up to 7 hours once they leave the mothership, and can make a landing oin difficult and unprepared coastal terrain.


    BT-3F APC


    One of these latest models is the BT-3F, a versatile armored personnel carrier that meets all modern requirements. It uses a specially adapted BMP-3 chassis.

    One of the priorities in the development of that vehicle was a high level of protection. A lot of thought also went into making the vehicle ergonomic and comfortable for its crew and the personnel it carries. It meets all the standard requirements in terms of mobility and interchangeability of components with the basic BMP-3 model.

    The BMP-3 and the BT-3F also share excellent protection from conventional weapons as well as from the impact of nuclear explosion, which enables their combined use in combat operations.

    The BT-3F is equipped with the 5ETs16U remote-controlled turret. That turret is armed with the Kord 12.7mm machine-gun, a television IR sight unit, and a laser range finder. It is indispensable for engaging lightly armored targets, weapons emplacements, and enemy personnel. Its video monitoring system offers a 360-degree field of view; the image is displayed on separate screens for the driver and for the personnel.

    There are several possible configurations for the passenger compartment: in addition to the vehicle’s crew, there is enough room for up to 10 commandos in the standard configuration, with an option for extra room for another five. Importantly, the vehicle can be used to haul bulky cargoes and ammunition, or serve as a platform for various hardware and equipment. In fact, this next-generation APC is marketed as a basic platform for a variety of special vehicles.

    The 500hp engine gives the BT-3F the same mobility characteristics as the BMP-3, including a 70km/h highway speed and the ability to sail in 2 to 3-meter waves.

    Another clear advantage of the BT-3F is its transportability by land, air, sea, and rail. It is even light enough to be hauled by Mi-26 helicopters using external suspension.

    Thanks to the use of standard parts and components that are shared with the BMP-3, which has been in service for many years, mass production of the new BT-3F model can be launched at the Kurgan Machinery Plant very quickly, with little to no preparation. Neither will it require much training for crews already trained with the BMP-3 and BMP-3F models. All of these considerations make the BT-3F an attractive proposition for the foreign armed forces that already operate the BMP-3.


    BMP-3F infantry fighting vehicle


    Another recent version of the BMP-3 model is the BMP- 3F. It is indispensable for rapid response units and marines operating unsupported in hostile territory, especially in coastal areas.

    Changes in the BMP-3F design compared to the parent BMP-3 model give it a greater buoyancy and stability at sea. For example, it has a telescopic air inlet pipe and lighter wave deflectors on the main body and turret. Its water-jet propulsors give it a sailing speed of up to 10 km/h.

    The vehicle is very stable and maneuverable at sea, capable of sailing in up to 1.25-meter waves, and can shoot accurately in up to 0.5-meter waves. It can remain at sea for up to 7 hours with the engine running.

    The BMP-3F also boasts excellent fire power thanks to its 100mm guided anti-tank missile launcher, a 30mm automatic cannon, and three 7.62mm machine guns. Its automated fire control system and highly efficient ammo make it capable of firing both on land and at sea, day or night, using all its weapons systems. The fire control system includes the Sodema IR sight/range finder, which provides reliable target identification and high firing accuracy round the clock and in poor visibility. As an option, the Sodema can be equipped with the AST-B automated target tracking device. Another option for the BMP-3F fire control system is the TKN-AI 24-hour commander observation unit.

    Other optional systems and components include:


    TVK-1B driver-mechanic observation unit

    IUSSh-688 chassis information and control system or EPVO driver and operator electronic assist device

    KBM-3M2E air conditioner (driven by the main engine) or an autonomous air conditioner with its own power unit that enables comfortable operation at ambient temperatures of up to +50°C

    MZ PTUR guided anti-tank missile loading mechanism


    All these options can be installed without sacrificing buoyancy, thanks to the use of special equipment.

    Thanks to its excellent mobility, protection, and firepower, combined with exceptional reliability, simple design, and ease of repair, the BMP-3F is one of the best amphibious fighting vehicles in the market.


    2S25M self-propelled anti-tank cannon


    The 2S25 is a light amphibious tank / self-propelled anti-tank cannon designed for more challenging tactical roles. These roles include reconnaissance, patrol and escort; action as part of a raid, flanking or advance units; combat in the security zone and maneuvering defense; forced water crossing; amphibious landing operations; operations in forested or mountainous terrain, swamps, or Arctic regions; and area control during peacekeeping operations and internal armed conflicts.

    Military planners in countries all over the world have come to realize the need for a light tank to support main battle tanks in modern warfare. The general requirements for such vehicles are as follows:

    firepower on par with, or not much inferior to main battle tanks

    increased tactical mobility and maneuverability, including the ability to force water barriers at speed

    a much better suitability for transportation by air, sea, rail, and road transport

    a lower cost compared with the main battle tanks

    The Special Machinery Design Bureau’s BMP-3 infantry fighting vehicle and its various versions (such as the BMP-3F model designed for the marines, and the BRM-3K amphibious reconnaissance vehicle) are often used in roles that should normally be performed by light tanks. They often struggle in these roles since an infantry fighting vehicle, for all its advantages, is clearly not a tank.

    For example, the Indonesian marines have bought a batch of BMP-3F primarily for use as direct fire support vehicles during amphibious landing and coastal operations. For actual landing, the Indonesians still use the old Soviet BTR-50 APCs and the US-made AAV-7 vehicles.

    Until very recently, not a single army in the world had an armored fighting vehicle that met all the requirements for a light tank. The first country to have developed such a tank is Russia.

    To a specialist, there is no doubt at all that the 2S25 is a modern light tank – in other words, a versatile fighting vehicle that can be used by all branches of the armed forces in the tactical roles for which that category of armored vehicles is the best fit. The new system’s potential users include:


    The Army (reconnaissance and anti-tank units, commandant units, alpine units and divisions, combined-services units serving with rapid-reaction or peacekeeping forces)

    The Marines and Navy coastal forces

    Airborne troops (parachute units, airborne assault and commando units and divisions)

    Units assigned to mobile ground-based ICBM

    Territorial defense units


    The 2S25M self-propelled anti-tank cannon is capable of performing all the aforementioned roles on the ground, at sea, and in the air.

    There are no other amphibious vehicles in Russia or abroad that pack such firepower in a relatively small package. The 2S25M is equipped with the 2A75M 125mm cannon, which can fire modern armor-piercing subcaliber projectiles, shaped-charge shells, HE-fragmentation shells, and projectiles with remote in-flight detonation. Such ammo is especially effective against enemy personnel, portable anti-tank system crews, unarmored vehicles, and light armor.

    These advantages greatly improve the system’s combat performance. In terms of its firepower, it is comparable to another new Russian system, the T-90MS main battle tank. The 2S25M can also fire guided missiles with shaped-charge or HE fragmentation warheads capable of destroying even the most heavily-protected armored vehicles at a distance of up to 5km. The new system carries a complement of 40 cannon projectiles, including 22 in the mechanized rounds rack.

    The 2S25M is also equipped with a remote-controlled 7.62mm machine-gun. It enables the commander of the vehicle to engage targets with the machine gun while the main weapon is in use by the operator. The total ammo complement of the machine guns is 3,000 rounds.

    Apart from the tank cannon that is just as capable as the one used in the T-90MS, the 2S25M also has an almost identical and very advanced fire control system. That system is the Sosna-U, widely regarded as one of the best in the world. It includes a visual and IR-range channels. The commander’s panoramic sight also has these two channels. Both sights support automatic target acquisition and tracking. There is also a backup sight in case the main ones go down; it is an optical-electronic instrument, with a vertically stabilized field of view and an autonomous power source.

    The 2S25M has a chassis information and control system that makes it much easier to operate and alerts the crew to any malfunctions. The latest frequency-modulation communication system supports technical transmission masking and can be integrated with modern command-and control systems, including automated ones such as the Andromeda-D (developed for the Airborne Assault Troops) or the Army’s ESU TZ Sozvezdiye-M2.

    The system’s undercarriage, engine, and gearbox are shared with the BMP-3 infantry fighting vehicle and the BMD-4M amphibious infantry fighting vehicle. The UTD-29 multifuel, 500hp diesel engine can propel the 18-tonne vehicle with a 3-man crew at up to 70km/h on land and 10 km/h at sea.

    The chassis is equipped with a highly efficient independent hydropneumatic variable-clearance suspension. Given the roles for which this vehicle is designed, its ability to press its belly to the ground or the landing platform is hard to overestimate.

    Experts believe that the 2S25M self-propelled anti-tank cannon is the world’s only modern light tank. The need for such vehicles will continue to grow in the foreseeable future, especially considering the cost of upgraded third-generation main battle tanks.

    The family of amphibious fighting vehicles developed by SKBM and Kurganmashzavod offer excellent protection, maneuverability, and firepower; they are also very sensibly priced. There is no doubt that the BT-3F, the BMP-3F, and the 2S25M will be a great success in this category of the global arms market, in which Russia has long enjoyed a strong presence.

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    ult

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    Post  ult on Sat Oct 19, 2019 4:43 pm

    106 BMP-3 to be delivered to RuMoD in 2019. 58 have been delivered so far.
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    Post  George1 on Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:20 am

    Contract for another BMP-3 infantry fighting vehicles


    According to the documentation published on the public procurement website, posted on October 31, 2019, the Tula JSC “Design Bureau of Instrument Engineering named after Academician A.G. Shipunova ”(KBP JSC, a part of JSC NPO High Precision Complexes as part of the Rostec State Corporation) entered into an agreement with a single supplier (which, as you can easily understand, is Kurgan Machine-Building Plant PJSC, now also part of the State Corporation Rostec) for the purchase of 168 BMP-3 infantry fighting vehicles (in specification 688B-sb6-2) in support of State Contract No. 1921187312042412241006930 of April 29, 2019 for subsequent delivery to the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation. Of these, 53 BMP-3 should be delivered to the Ministry of Defense in 2020, and the remaining 115 units - in 2021. The total value of the contract is 14.251660729 billion rubles including VAT.


    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 8 Bmp-310
    Production of new BMP-3 infantry fighting vehicles at the Kurgan Machine-Building Plant PJSC. Kurgan, January 2019 (c) bmpd


    On the part of bmpd, we recall that the plans for concluding a “large long-term contract for the purchase of more than 150 BMP-3s” in January 2019 were announced by Deputy Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation Alexei Krivoruchko during a visit to Tula on Shcheglovsky Val JSC (a subsidiary of Design Bureau JSC Instrument Engineering named after Academician A. G. Shipunov ”).

    Earlier, in August 2017, the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation signed a contract with the High Precision Complexes holding and the KBP JSC, which is part of the latest KBP JSC, for the supply of a small experimental batch of BMP-3 with an uninhabited combat module "at the International Military Technical Forum" Army 2017 " The era of the development of KBP. However, as you can judge, the new contract in 2019, which provides for the delivery of 168 BMP-3s in the specification 688B-sb6-2, implies only the supply of BMP-3s in a slightly modified form with enhanced protection.

    Earlier, the Ministry of Defense issued two contracts for the supply of BMP-3 to PJSC Kurgan Machine-Building Plant (KMP) - a three-year contract for the supply of about 200 BMP-3 in the period 2015-2017, and a two-year contract for the supply of about 200 more BMP-3 in 2018 -2019 years. According to well-known data, KMZ should deliver the last 106 cars under the last contract in 2019.

    Also, on December 28, 2018, KMZ entered into a contract for the overhaul of 97 BMP-3 early issues with delivery in 2019-2020, the contract value is 6.109858033 billion rubles (including VAT). Thus, the cost of overhauling one BMP-3 at KMP (51-54 million rubles including VAT) is only one third lower than the cost of production of a new modernized BMP-3 (82-86 million rubles including VAT).

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3838128.html
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    Post  calripson on Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:35 am

    George1 wrote:

    Contract for another BMP-3 infantry fighting vehicles



    According to the documentation published on the public procurement website, posted on October 31, 2019, the Tula JSC “Design Bureau of Instrument Engineering named after Academician A.G. Shipunova ”(KBP JSC, a part of JSC NPO High Precision Complexes as part of the Rostec State Corporation) entered into an agreement with a single supplier (which, as you can easily understand, is Kurgan Machine-Building Plant PJSC, now also part of the State Corporation Rostec) for the purchase of 168 BMP-3 infantry fighting vehicles (in specification 688B-sb6-2) in support of State Contract No. 1921187312042412241006930 of April 29, 2019 for subsequent delivery to the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation. Of these, 53 BMP-3 should be delivered to the Ministry of Defense in 2020, and the remaining 115 units - in 2021. The total value of the contract is 14.251660729 billion rubles including VAT.


    BMP-3 in Russian Army - Page 8 Bmp-310
    Production of new BMP-3 infantry fighting vehicles at the Kurgan Machine-Building Plant PJSC. Kurgan, January 2019 (c) bmpd


       On the part of bmpd, we recall that the plans for concluding a “large long-term contract for the purchase of more than 150 BMP-3s” in January 2019 were announced by Deputy Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation Alexei Krivoruchko during a visit to Tula on Shcheglovsky Val JSC (a subsidiary of Design Bureau JSC Instrument Engineering named after Academician A. G. Shipunov ”).

       Earlier, in August 2017, the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation signed a contract with the High Precision Complexes holding and the KBP JSC, which is part of the latest KBP JSC, for the supply of a small experimental batch of BMP-3 with an uninhabited combat module "at the International Military Technical Forum" Army 2017 " The era of the development of KBP. However, as you can judge, the new contract in 2019, which provides for the delivery of 168 BMP-3s in the specification 688B-sb6-2, implies only the supply of BMP-3s in a slightly modified form with enhanced protection.

       Earlier, the Ministry of Defense issued two contracts for the supply of BMP-3 to PJSC Kurgan Machine-Building Plant (KMP) - a three-year contract for the supply of about 200 BMP-3 in the period 2015-2017, and a two-year contract for the supply of about 200 more BMP-3 in 2018 -2019 years. According to well-known data, KMZ should deliver the last 106 cars under the last contract in 2019.

       Also, on December 28, 2018, KMZ entered into a contract for the overhaul of 97 BMP-3 early issues with delivery in 2019-2020, the contract value is 6.109858033 billion rubles (including VAT). Thus, the cost of overhauling one BMP-3 at KMP (51-54 million rubles including VAT) is only one third lower than the cost of production of a new modernized BMP-3 (82-86 million rubles including VAT).

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3838128.html


    Why aren't they moving on to more modern designs?? Is it money (penny pinching) or technological/production issues??
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    Post  nero on Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:09 am

    calripson wrote:Why aren't they moving on to more modern designs?? Is it money (penny pinching) or technological/production issues??
    BMP-3 production line is already up and running, troops were trained to use them and the decision to buy more of them was done long ago. The change to the armata platfrom will happen in mid-late 2020's, imo.
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:45 am

    If their plans go as originally set out it is going to take quite a while to rearm and reform their armoured brigades and divisions... so there is going to be a period of time where they are making upgraded old models while they are sorting out the brand new vehicles.

    Right now they use a range of BMP and BTR and indeed MTLB based vehicles in a wide range of roles, and replacements for pretty much all of them need to be developed based on their new vehicle platforms which is going to take time.

    For now this is an upgraded model of a type they already have in service so they are improving commonality and simplicity across their fleet.

    When the new vehicle types are ready they will collapse the different vehicle types down to three or four, with each mobile force consisting of hopefully one vehicle type though perhaps sometimes two where needed.

    Of course it is not totally practical to demand every branch and every location all use the standard new types... we have seen TOR and Pantsir mounted on double vehicles for arctic use and also on Typhoon family trucks too... it will be interesting to see what happens.
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    Post  Isos on Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:47 pm

    1.3 million $ unit price for bmp-3. Not really cheap for a soviet design. Kurganets must be 2x more expensive as it'd newer and use more modern stuff.

    It is also weired that they don't produce HEAT rounds or a multipurpose HE/HEAT round against infantry and IFV for it.

    Rob Lee
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    According to documents posted on the Russian government's public procurement website, KBP Tula entered into an agreement with Kurganmashzavod to build another 168 BMP-3 vehicles for 14.2 billion rubles ($223 million or $1.3 million per BMP-3).
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    Post  calripson on Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:07 pm

    Isos wrote:1.3 million $ unit price for bmp-3. Not really cheap for a soviet design. Kurganets must be 2x more expensive as it'd newer and use more modern stuff.

    It is also weired that they don't produce HEAT rounds or a multipurpose HE/HEAT round against infantry and IFV for it.

    Rob Lee
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    ·
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    According to documents posted on the Russian government's public procurement website, KBP Tula entered into an agreement with Kurganmashzavod to build another 168 BMP-3 vehicles for 14.2 billion rubles ($223 million or $1.3 million per BMP-3).

    They need to transition from warmed over Soviet designs. NATO IFV are specifically designed with the BMP3 in mind and their guns are designed to penetrate its armor. I also maintain that any tank or IFV without an active protection system will be little more than a coffin on the modern battlefield. It seems to me that the penny pinchers are calling the shots and orders are just being given to keep the production lines open and the jobs in place.
    Hole
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    Post  Hole on Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:16 pm

    Nearly all NATO AIFV´s are older then BMP-3.

    New and modernised versions receive add-on armour.

    There are still units equipped with BMP-1´s. It´s a good idea to buy more BMP-3´s and to modernise older ones and BMP-2´s until the Kurganets-25 is officially put into service.
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    nero

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    Post  nero on Sat Nov 16, 2019 6:49 pm

    calripson wrote:They need to transition from warmed over Soviet designs. NATO IFV are specifically designed with the BMP3 in mind and their guns are designed to penetrate its armor. I also maintain that any tank or IFV without an active protection system will be little more than a coffin on the modern battlefield. It seems to me that the penny pinchers are calling the shots and orders are just being given to keep the production lines open and the jobs in place.
    And which NATO IFV's are you talking about, exactly?

    Russia already has a store of over 800-900 of BMP-3's (few thousands more of BMP-2). Crewed are trained to operate them and they are in active service for quite a long while now. The kinks and problems, in addition to the limitations of the vehicle are well known. Operators abundant.

    The Armata platform is currently undergoing massive tests. It will also have to procure a large amount of factories to build such vehicles, before they can be seriously considered to even start replacing older, Soviet armored units.

    All of this will likely only start happening in the mid/late 2020's as the platform is supposed to replace pretty much all armored vehicles in the Russian ground forces.
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    Post  DerWolf on Sat Nov 16, 2019 11:22 pm

    calripson wrote:
    Isos wrote:1.3 million $ unit price for bmp-3. Not really cheap for a soviet design. Kurganets must be 2x more expensive as it'd newer and use more modern stuff.

    It is also weired that they don't produce HEAT rounds or a multipurpose HE/HEAT round against infantry and IFV for it.

    Rob Lee
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    According to documents posted on the Russian government's public procurement website, KBP Tula entered into an agreement with Kurganmashzavod to build another 168 BMP-3 vehicles for 14.2 billion rubles ($223 million or $1.3 million per BMP-3).

    They need to transition from warmed over Soviet designs. NATO IFV are specifically designed with the BMP3 in mind and their guns are designed to penetrate its armor. I also maintain that any tank or IFV without an active protection system will be little more than a coffin on the modern battlefield. It seems to me that the penny pinchers are calling the shots and orders are just being given to keep the production lines open and the jobs in place.
    Does Kurganets-25 have active protection system?
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:07 am

    1.3 million $ unit price for bmp-3. Not really cheap for a soviet design. Kurganets must be 2x more expensive as it'd newer and use more modern stuff.

    Optics and electronics/comms systems are probably a large fraction of that price, though modern ceramic armour probably adds to the base price as well.

    It is also weired that they don't produce HEAT rounds or a multipurpose HE/HEAT round against infantry and IFV for it.

    It is a low velocity gun so the performance is probably not good enough to warrant it.... armoured targets are generally engaged using gun fired missiles or the 30mm cannon with AP rounds. It is the only gun of its type so there is not much reason to warrant a wide range of ammo types and options.

    The Armata platform is currently undergoing massive tests. It will also have to procure a large amount of factories to build such vehicles, before they can be seriously considered to even start replacing older, Soviet armored units.

    The BMP-3 seems to be a more elite vehicle used in the better equipped formations, so such units will likely receive their Armata or Kurganets or Boomerang replacements, with their old BMP-3s being cascaded to other units.

    Does Kurganets-25 have active protection system?

    AFAIK all of the new vehicle families will have both active and passive protection... ie ARENA-2 and Afghansi and the successor to Drozd-2 for APS and Shtora upgrades as well as other interesting systems like those audio shot spotting systems and laser detection systems and enemy scope or optics detection systems etc etc

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