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    Arms sales to Pakistan and India. Balance and Implications

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    Hachimoto

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    Re: Arms sales to Pakistan and India. Balance and Implications

    Post  Hachimoto on Sun Aug 23, 2015 2:34 am

    That's non sense, so India can buy from any country and Russia can't sell to anyone without consulting India? forget China ? or did India just give up on racing with China Smile

    If Pakistan put the money on table the Russians would sell just like the US are doing. and as far as i know their is no direct issues between Pakistan and Russia.

    Russia is now looking to diversify their customers as the Rush-buy from India is willing to fade sooner or later.

    be ready for new category of customers like UAE/SA/Brazil/Morocco/Pakistan and China coming back to mother Russia

    Beside if Russia is going to make another mistake like with Iran in the past years customers will just let it go take the french as example.
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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: Arms sales to Pakistan and India. Balance and Implications

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun Aug 23, 2015 3:28 am

    Pinto wrote:
    Mike E wrote:
    par far wrote:I don't like the idea of Russia selling Pakistan military hardware, it is going to piss India off and India is one of the biggest buyer of Russian weapons.
    As I've stated before, India is powerless in the matter.

    well bro India might be powerless in these deals but if offensive weapons are sold then India unfortunately will exercise other options. India offers far far greater business to Russian Defense industry since decades and in future too. Such decades old trusting relationship Russia will spoil for few million hundred dollars i doubt

    1.) Really, what's all the hub bub? Mi-35's won't change the strategic chessboard/calculus of South Asia, because primarily the main role of the Mi-24/35's systems are for 'tactical' operations for things such as COIN...and we're not even talking about '200' Mi-35's hear, we're only talking about '4' helicopters...a laughably small number, and the Indian military won't lose a minute of sleep at night for such logistical numbers.

    2.) In comparison the Indian military will be receiving some serious strategic game-changers within the next ten years, in significant numbers no less. India will be getting derivatives of both T-50 (via FGFA) as well as derivatives of the 'Yasen' attack subs, as well the ability to learn and produce the hardware at home. There's even been talk that India may even get a derivative of the Armata series of heavily armored universal systems....and those are strategic systems that could dominate 10's of thousands of sq. km's of of air/sea/ground territory.

    3.) India buys systems from NATO affiliated defense firms, the same defense firms that harp about the 'Russian threat' through their Public Relations and Lobbyist branches...they also advocate military build ups on Russia's border, including the politically sensitive ABM's...so why is it O.K. for India to help prop up the MIC's of Russia's enemies by the tune of 10's of billions of Dollars...but how come Russia is considered the bad guy for selling a measly '4' helicopters that will primarily be used to fight the Taliban in Northern Pakistan?
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    Werewolf

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    Re: Arms sales to Pakistan and India. Balance and Implications

    Post  Werewolf on Sun Aug 23, 2015 11:14 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Pinto wrote:
    Mike E wrote:
    par far wrote:I don't like the idea of Russia selling Pakistan military hardware, it is going to piss India off and India is one of the biggest buyer of Russian weapons.
    As I've stated before, India is powerless in the matter.

    well bro India might be powerless in these deals but if offensive weapons are sold then India unfortunately will exercise other options. India offers far far greater business to Russian Defense industry since decades and in future too. Such decades old trusting relationship Russia will spoil for few million hundred dollars i doubt

    1.) Really, what's all the hub bub? Mi-35's won't change the strategic chessboard/calculus of South Asia, because primarily the main role of the Mi-24/35's systems are for 'tactical' operations for things such as COIN...and we're not even talking about '200' Mi-35's hear, we're only talking about '4' helicopters...a laughably small number, and the Indian military won't lose a minute of sleep at night for such logistical numbers.

    2.) In comparison the Indian military will be receiving some serious strategic game-changers within the next ten years, in significant numbers no less. India will be getting derivatives of both T-50 (via FGFA) as well as derivatives of the 'Yasen' attack subs, as well the ability to learn and produce the hardware at home. There's even been talk that India may even get a derivative of the Armata series of heavily armored universal systems....and those are strategic systems that could dominate 10's of thousands of sq. km's of of air/sea/ground territory.

    3.) India buys systems from NATO affiliated defense firms, the same defense firms that harp about the 'Russian threat' through their Public Relations and Lobbyist branches...they also advocate military build ups on Russia's border, including the politically sensitive ABM's...so why is it O.K. for India to help prop up the MIC's of Russia's enemies by the tune of 10's of billions of Dollars...but how come Russia is considered the bad guy for selling a measly '4' helicopters that will primarily be used to fight the Taliban in Northern Pakistan?

    Because Indians lobbyism in return towards russian MIC and leadership is a constant reappearing issue while bitching about lobbyism to not get into Arjun or similiar projects that haven't met any maturity to be even considered as product.

    If i was in the place of russia i would sell to pakistan and Iran what i want, Israel nor India is in position to dictate anything to Russia, not to mention that India already has fallen towards very disadvantagous lobbyism for Rafael or the suspicious Chinook and C-17 tenders in comperision with their counterparts losing despite being in a superior position in logistics, effeciency, performance and total costs.
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    Pinto

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    Re: Arms sales to Pakistan and India. Balance and Implications

    Post  Pinto on Sun Aug 23, 2015 11:51 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Pinto wrote:
    Mike E wrote:
    par far wrote:I don't like the idea of Russia selling Pakistan military hardware, it is going to piss India off and India is one of the biggest buyer of Russian weapons.
    As I've stated before, India is powerless in the matter.

    well bro India might be powerless in these deals but if offensive weapons are sold then India unfortunately will exercise other options. India offers far far greater business to Russian Defense industry since decades and in future too. Such decades old trusting relationship Russia will spoil for few million hundred dollars i doubt

    1.) Really, what's all the hub bub? Mi-35's won't change the strategic chessboard/calculus of South Asia, because primarily the main role of the Mi-24/35's systems are for 'tactical' operations for things such as COIN...and we're not even talking about '200' Mi-35's hear, we're only talking about '4' helicopters...a laughably small number, and the Indian military won't lose a minute of sleep at night for such logistical numbers.

    2.) In comparison the Indian military will be receiving some serious strategic game-changers within the next ten years, in significant numbers no less. India will be getting derivatives of both T-50 (via FGFA) as well as derivatives of the 'Yasen' attack subs, as well the ability to learn and produce the hardware at home. There's even been talk that India may even get a derivative of the Armata series of heavily armored universal systems....and those are strategic systems that could dominate 10's of thousands of sq. km's of of air/sea/ground territory.

    3.) India buys systems from NATO affiliated defense firms, the same defense firms that harp about the 'Russian threat' through their Public Relations and Lobbyist branches...they also advocate military build ups on Russia's border, including the politically sensitive ABM's...so why is it O.K. for India to help prop up the MIC's of Russia's enemies by the tune of 10's of billions of Dollars...but how come Russia is considered the bad guy for selling a measly '4' helicopters that will primarily be used to fight the Taliban in Northern Pakistan?

    1. i have only commented about offensive options sale and not about Mi 35 or Yak 130 trainers so you took my comments in wrong perspective

    2. India will continue to source its critical offensive weapons from Russia, France and related radars or missiles from Israel but bulk of weaponry will come from Russia. Indians have not forgotten the help Russians gave them since past 5 decades. India in next 10 yrs will spend around 50$ from Russia alone and rest of th 30 b $ from other sources

    3. India buys from NATO some weapons which it needs to counter china as Russia also sells to china so its quiet a balancing act. If you see friendship and trust level then India was the first country to recognize Russia's action in Crimea and supported Russia fully despite Europeans and US concerns. India and Russia will continue to pursue there strategic partnership to higher level in future. Examples being SCO and BRICS bank just to undermine US $

    Now if Russia still wishes to sell offensive weapons to Pak then India is surely powerless but i do not believe Russia will do this and help and force India to change its polices. But this will never happen as India will never let go a trusting ally as Russia and so will Russia Smile
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    Pinto

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    Re: Arms sales to Pakistan and India. Balance and Implications

    Post  Pinto on Sun Aug 23, 2015 12:02 pm

    [quote="Werewolf"][quote="magnumcromagnon"][quote="Pinto"]
    Mike E wrote:
    par far wrote:[/b]

    Because Indians lobbyism in return towards russian MIC and leadership is a constant reappearing issue while bitching about lobbyism to not get into Arjun or similiar projects that haven't met any maturity to be even considered as product.

    If i was in the place of russia i would sell to pakistan and Iran what i want, Israel nor India is in position to dictate anything to Russia, not to mention that India already has fallen towards very disadvantagous lobbyism for Rafael or the suspicious Chinook and C-17 tenders in comperision with their counterparts losing despite being in a superior position in logistics, effeciency, performance and total costs.

    Indian Lobby is its always buying bulk of offensive and critical weapons from Russia and Russia alone. Our relationship is at higher level thats why despite Russia selling to China too there is no problem to India as Russia will always have calming effect on Indo China rivalry on border dispute. China reverse engineering your products and selling to other countries as your competitor, has India ever done this ? why you did not Object to china ?

    Russian Govt fortunately do not act as per your thinking and take Indian concerns in mind. India has no need and compulsion to dictate Russia because our relationship with Russia is very special based upon mutual understanding and affection

    India will always welcome Russia to sell all kind of weapons to Iran
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    Werewolf

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    Re: Arms sales to Pakistan and India. Balance and Implications

    Post  Werewolf on Sun Aug 23, 2015 12:04 pm

    Pinto wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Pinto wrote:
    Mike E wrote:
    par far wrote:[/b]

    Because Indians lobbyism in return towards russian MIC and leadership is a constant reappearing issue while bitching about lobbyism to not get into Arjun or similiar projects that haven't met any maturity to be even considered as product.

    If i was in the place of russia i would sell to pakistan and Iran what i want, Israel nor India is in position to dictate anything to Russia, not to mention that India already has fallen towards very disadvantagous lobbyism for Rafael or the suspicious Chinook and C-17 tenders in comperision with their counterparts losing despite being in a superior position in logistics, effeciency, performance and total costs.

    Indian Lobby is its always buying bulk of offensive and critical weapons from Russia and Russia alone. Our relationship is at higher level thats why despite Russia selling to China too there is no problem to India as  Russia will always have calming effect on Indo China rivalry on border dispute. China reverse engineering your products and selling to other countries as your competitor, has India ever done this ? why you did not Object to china ?

    Russian Govt fortunately do not act as per your thinking and take Indian concerns in mind. India has no need and compulsion to dictate Russia because our relationship with Russia is very special based upon mutual understanding and affection

    India will always welcome Russia to sell all kind of weapons to Iran

    Logistics is a very critical asset for any military, big or small, the bigger it is the better must be the logistics and buying C-17 and Chinook despite better option is certainly not appearing to me as a unbiased and unlobbied decision.

    Indian Lobby is its always buying bulk of offensive and critical weapons from Russia and Russia alone. Our relationship is at higher level thats why despite Russia selling to China too there is no problem to India as Russia will always have calming effect on Indo China rivalry on border dispute. China reverse engineering your products and selling to other countries as your competitor, has India ever done this ? why you did not Object to china ?

    Because china very activley and undoubtly has already shown to the entire world their political course and it is not in favor of USA but in favor of BRICS, while India attempts to sit between two chairs and always trying to adjust its butt cheeks to comfort itself on each chair.


    Last edited by Werewolf on Sun Aug 23, 2015 12:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Pinto

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    Re: Arms sales to Pakistan and India. Balance and Implications

    Post  Pinto on Sun Aug 23, 2015 12:05 pm

    Hachimoto wrote:That's non sense, so India can buy from any country and Russia can't sell to anyone without consulting India? forget China ? or did India just give up on racing with China Smile

    If Pakistan put the money on table the Russians would sell just like the US are doing. and as far as i know their is no direct issues between Pakistan and Russia.

    Russia is now looking to diversify their customers as the Rush-buy from India is willing to fade sooner or later.

    be ready for new category of customers like UAE/SA/Brazil/Morocco/Pakistan and China coming back to mother Russia

    Beside if Russia is going to make another mistake like with Iran in the past years customers will just let it go take the french as example.

    Do you think Pak will put 50 b$ on table like India doing for next 10 yrs wil Russia ? then go ahead and sell to them

    Russian Govt do not think like you, you saying the weapons sale to India will fade off in future ? lol there is going to be major deals with Russia and FGFA alone India will put around 25 b $ and rest on subs, frigates, armata tanks and what not

    http://ria.ru/east_military/20150814/1183812197.html

    "Long-term program of military-technical cooperation for 2011-2020, along with more than 20 intergovernmental agreement is the basis for cooperation in this field. The portfolio of contracts - more than 35 billion of added dollars. More than anyone else," - said the diplomat.


    Last edited by Pinto on Sun Aug 23, 2015 12:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Pinto

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    Re: Arms sales to Pakistan and India. Balance and Implications

    Post  Pinto on Sun Aug 23, 2015 12:07 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    Pinto wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Pinto wrote:
    Mike E wrote:
    par far wrote:[/b]


    Logistics is a very critical asset for any military, big or small, the bigger it is the better must be the logistics and buying C-17 and Chinook despite better option is certainly not appearing to me as a unbiased and unlobbied decision.

    Bro both these deals are for China border and has been done to keep US in loop regarding India's dispute with China and china encircling India in indian ocean and arming Packston heavily against us


    Bro India is forced to involve US specifically for China and India has too joined BRICS only for Russia
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    Pinto

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    Re: Arms sales to Pakistan and India. Balance and Implications

    Post  Pinto on Sun Aug 23, 2015 12:31 pm

    GarryB wrote:India is not powerless in this situation... the Russians will certainly consult the Indians first... but in the cases where Russia offers systems to Pakistan it is generally systems India has already rejected.

    For instance the Mi-35 for Pakistan... India rejected the Mi-28N. India was not interested in a jet training aircraft from Russia so it would make sense for Russia to offer Yak-130s or even MiG-ATs to Pakistan...

    i agree 100% with you, Russia do no need to consult India but our relations are so much strong on higher levels that both will never do anything which is against the national interest of other
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Arms sales to Pakistan and India. Balance and Implications

    Post  sepheronx on Sun Aug 23, 2015 2:28 pm

    The apache helicopter sales were my favorite. While India operates various Russian helicopters, they opted for attack choppers from US using completely different components than the rest, and costing a fortune.

    What makes me laugh even more is that this is the same US that sells billions of $$$ in offensive weaponry to Pakistan. Like F-16's, which they offered to India as well.

    Yes, it is no secret that China causes issues with India at the borders. But it is also up to India to protect its own borders and put their foot down regarding territorial integrity. They seem to do it politically somewhat but not militarily. Trying to get US involved as one member here said, is showing both India's weakness as well as impartial position to create change in the world, thus they are not reliable.

    China seems to have no problem putting its foot down, even against USA. Even if India's defense budget is small compared to China's, they still manage to buy lots of expensive equipment. They just gotta start showing their teeth too. If they want respect.

    If US gets to sell Pakistan attack choppers, as well as upgrades to them, and then gets to sell their other attack choppers to India, well, I cant see why Russia cannot. They have given India tech transfers that US wouldnt even dare to give. Yet US is getting growth in defense deals with India.

    Werewolf is right, india cant just sit on two chairs at once.
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    Pinto

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    Re: Arms sales to Pakistan and India. Balance and Implications

    Post  Pinto on Sun Aug 23, 2015 4:55 pm

    sepheronx wrote:The apache helicopter sales were my favorite. While India operates various Russian helicopters, they opted for attack choppers from US using completely different components than the rest, and costing a fortune.

    What makes me laugh even more is that this is the same US that sells billions of $$$ in offensive weaponry to Pakistan. Like F-16's, which they offered to India as well.

    Yes, it is no secret that China causes issues with India at the borders. But it is also up to India to protect its own borders and put their foot down regarding territorial integrity. They seem to do it politically somewhat but not militarily. Trying to get US involved as one member here said, is showing both India's weakness as well as impartial position to create change in the world, thus they are not reliable.

    China seems to have no problem putting its foot down, even against USA. Even if India's defense budget is small compared to China's, they still manage to buy lots of expensive equipment. They just gotta start showing their teeth too. If they want respect.

    If US gets to sell Pakistan attack choppers, as well as upgrades to them, and then gets to sell their other attack choppers to India, well, I cant see why Russia cannot. They have given India tech transfers that US wouldnt even dare to give. Yet US is getting growth in defense deals with India.

    Werewolf is right, india cant just sit on two chairs at once.

    India will never sit in two chairs bro, India always had a strong bias towards soviets even when NAM movement was at its peak but its also truth that India always had taken weapons from west particularly France( Mirage 2000) in 1980's and carriers from england including hawk trainer aircrafts. Russia too can certainly sell Pakistan without bothering about India but up to a point. But What causes concern in India is China too is arming Pak to the teeth along with double gamer US.

    Choppers deal has been given specifically given to US along with light howitzers artillery for our eastern neighbor. we are facing two level threats at the moment and relations with US must be seen in that context. China might be putting its foot down against US but it causes concern in them too when India, US, japan, Singapore do exercises in Indian oceans. India do not wish to start border tension with China because china very cleverly keeping India busy in western front by popping up Pakistan and it will be foolish for India to open another border confrontation with China

    China has all the high tech weapons including fighters from Russia till now if war happens today. Thats why Rafale has been roped in to counter that threat and after 3-4 yrs when FGFA comes to IAF then our worries will be somewhat subdued. Its easier said then done that India fights both china and pak together both nuclear armed and armed to the teeth. so we need to have diverse sort of weapons specifically as per demands of our forces to counter these combined threats

    Sum of the issue is any one can still check every year Russia is getting more defense orders from India then any other country. Time cycle has come for fresh orders beginning Nov 2015 when Indian PM visit Russia with FGFA deal being signed and this alone is going to be be mother of all deals apart from frigates, subs including one nuclear on lease, Armata tank
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    Werewolf

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    Re: Arms sales to Pakistan and India. Balance and Implications

    Post  Werewolf on Sun Aug 23, 2015 5:22 pm

    I think you do not understand or avoid such thoughts, but the issue with India between two chairs is not that it is relying on reliable partner, while only one of them is a reliable partner which is russia, the US and France and countries alike of NATO are unreliable and that has been proven. The problem that india faces is that in case they purchase relevant weapons from the west like transport aircraft without full ToT licenses to produce it themselfs they can get into a situation where US will pressure India for political reasons and use this as a leverage like they did with France over Mistral. Relying on political motivated countries that have hegemonic bias of their own political importance, they will not hesitate and use this against India. That is certainly a problem and India has only one Partner as right now that is russia, why wasting any money, effeciency sacrifice and risking future political gamble with the own security and political independence over some stuff which US is not even offering full technology transfer while India is producing several russian technologies in their own country, not facing any difficulties or embargo risks?

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    Pinto

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    Re: Arms sales to Pakistan and India. Balance and Implications

    Post  Pinto on Sun Aug 23, 2015 5:36 pm

    Werewolf wrote:I think you do not understand or avoid such thoughts, but the issue with India between two chairs is not that it is relying on reliable partner, while only one of them is a reliable partner which is russia, the US and France and countries alike of NATO are unreliable and that has been proven. The problem that india faces is that in case they purchase relevant weapons from the west like transport aircraft without full ToT licenses to produce it themselfs they can get into a situation where US will pressure India for political reasons and use this as a leverage like they did with France over Mistral. Relying on political motivated countries that have hegemonic bias of their own political importance, they will not hesitate and use this against India. That is certainly a problem and India has only one Partner as right now that is russia, why wasting any money, effeciency sacrifice and risking future political gamble with the own security and political independence over some stuff which US is not even offering full technology transfer while India is producing several russian technologies in their own country, not facing any difficulties or embargo risks?


    Now we have come to point in discussion where our view point meet, majority of Indian Public too is against India procuring major weapons frm US because we see friends in Russia and US even Indian govt knows will dump its ally when its interests are over. Lets see how long this bonhomie continues with US, personally i prefer Russia like majority of Indians do. We i am sure will never buy anything related to critical weapons frm US

    1. For c 17 and globemaster we have IL 76

    2. apache we are buying only around 30 still we have Russian attack helis and more night hunter could be bought

    3. For fighters our 80% needs are met by Russia and so does the army with over 90% Russian arms

    4. Indian Navy has 80% Russian warships or the ones we making with Russian help. after scorpene fiasco with france in over delays and cost running high we will fo this time for Russian subs in around 14 b $ deal
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    max steel

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    Re: Arms sales to Pakistan and India. Balance and Implications

    Post  max steel on Sun Aug 23, 2015 11:00 pm

    US has recently  proposed a joint " F-16IN(india) " fighter jet deal to India where both of them will contribute just like pakfa progrm. India hasnt responded yet.
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    Pinto

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    Will not take any step detrimental to India's security: Russia

    Post  Pinto on Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:54 pm

    http://zeenews.india.com/news/world/will-not-take-any-step-detrimental-to-indias-security-russia_1779696.html
    | Zee News
    Last Updated: Thursday, September 10, 2015 - 23:54


    New Delhi: Russia on Thursday said that it will never take any step detrimental to the security and safety of its special strategic partner India.

    Russian Embassy here issued a statement in the backdrop of a report that said Russia and Pakistan were in talks on the delivery of Russian multirole Mi-35M attack helicopters and the latest Su-35 fighter jets.

    "Time and again, the Russian leaders have stated at the highest level that Russia will never take any steps detrimental to the security and safety of our special and privileged strategic partner ? India, or the security structure in the South Asian region, or any other region for that matter," the statement said.

    "This assurance is fully valid today as it was valid yesterday. This is the guideline of our President's foreign policy concept," it said.

    "As regards the newspaper report from Nizhni Tagil, it is a sheer case of overstatement by the agency, on the one hand, and of overreaction by a section of the Indian media, - on the other," it added.
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    flamming_python

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    Re: Arms sales to Pakistan and India. Balance and Implications

    Post  flamming_python on Fri Sep 11, 2015 12:54 am

    lol, I'm starting to suspect that Moscow is starting to play India's hardball game, where it likes to play off multiple suppliers against each other Smile

    Russia on the other hand is playing off customers against each other Cool
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Arms sales to Pakistan and India. Balance and Implications

    Post  sepheronx on Fri Sep 11, 2015 12:58 am

    Either that or Deputy PM is an idiot. Pakistan barely buys anything from Russia while India buys tens of billions.  Way more than what Pakistan even spends in 5 years.

    As well, Indias investments in Russia greatly outpaces Pakistans. Actually, I dont think Pakistan has any investments in Russia.

    Russia better get its politicians in line, or they may lose their position of second largest supplier and will lose tens of billions of investment. Not good in current economic affairs.

    Especially with Pakistan having bad relations with both India and Iran.
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    Pinto

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    Re: Arms sales to Pakistan and India. Balance and Implications

    Post  Pinto on Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:09 am

    flamming_python wrote:lol, I'm starting to suspect that Moscow is starting to play India's hardball game, where it likes to play off multiple suppliers against each other Smile

    Russia on the other hand is playing off customers against each other Cool

    well bro lets see which way this deal turn out to be its very offensive warplane and indian govt will be pressure from general public which support pro Russia stand of govt
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    Pinto

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    Re: Arms sales to Pakistan and India. Balance and Implications

    Post  Pinto on Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:11 am

    sepheronx wrote:Either that or Deputy PM is an idiot. Pakistan barely buys anything from Russia while India buys tens of billions.  Way more than what Pakistan even spends in 5 years.

    As well, Indias investments in Russia greatly outpaces Pakistans.  Actually, I dont think Pakistan has any investments in Russia.

    Russia better get its politicians in line, or they may lose their position of second largest supplier and will lose tens of billions of investment. Not good in current economic affairs.

    Especially with Pakistan having bad relations with both India and Iran.

    During next 5 years India will spend roughly 35-40$ on Russian arms, and annual defence budget of pakistan is 7 b$ so you can assume clearly weather this deal will happen or not

    Indian govt and its people will closely watch this Russian move as relations with Russia has been always special
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    zg18

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    Re: Arms sales to Pakistan and India. Balance and Implications

    Post  zg18 on Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:54 am

    sepheronx wrote:Either that or Deputy PM is an idiot. Pakistan barely buys anything from Russia while India buys tens of billions.  Way more than what Pakistan even spends in 5 years.

    As well, Indias investments in Russia greatly outpaces Pakistans.  Actually, I dont think Pakistan has any investments in Russia.

    Russia better get its politicians in line, or they may lose their position of second largest supplier and will lose tens of billions of investment. Not good in current economic affairs.

    Especially with Pakistan having bad relations with both India and Iran.

    Don`t worry , it`s pressure tactics on US lobby in India whose prime goal is to replace Russia as main supplier for Indian armed forces. Since US is not going to sell most modern weaponry to Pakistan (not because of India) , idea is that Russia might which will firmly put India`s generals to stay faithful to Russian arms. Arms market competition is not for gentlemen and often is hard bargain and trade off.
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    Pinto

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    Re: Arms sales to Pakistan and India. Balance and Implications

    Post  Pinto on Fri Sep 11, 2015 3:03 pm

    Well Russia will sell Pakistan arms but not an offensive and balance shifting war plane like SU 35. India and Russia friendships is decades old and its not going ti be affected by couple of Russian deals with Pakistan for helis or transport or trainer planes
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Arms sales to Pakistan and India. Balance and Implications

    Post  sepheronx on Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:53 pm

    I know my wife was making comments about this. But she makes a good point - Everyone uses a deputy minister in anything to push an "idea" and to see the reactions, since the deputy minister doesn't have any power in nearly anything.

    I also doubt it happening. Su-35 just won't sell due to being too expensive and you can get close performance from Su-30SM.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Arms sales to Pakistan and India. Balance and Implications

    Post  Militarov on Wed Sep 16, 2015 9:44 pm

    "Moscow is in talks with with Islamabad about selling an unknown number of Su-35 fighters to Pakistan, a traditional enemy of Russia's ally India, reports China's Global Times.

    Whether Russia would damage its relations with India to sell fighters to Pakistan seems dubious, however, according to the report, which also said that a small number of Su-35 fighters would not strengthen the Pakistan Air Force to any degree against the Indian Air Force, which has hundreds of Su-30MKI fighters purchased from Russia in service.

    China has traditionally been the main supplier of military aircraft to Pakistan, the report pointed out. Beijing and Islamabad's close relationship since the 1950s may be prone to the covert collection of technological secrets by the PLA Air Force through the Pakistan Air Force. If Russia suspected such a leak, it would likely forego sales to Pakistan, according to the report."

    Source: http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?cid=1101&MainCatID=11&id=20150916000037


    par far

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    Re: Arms sales to Pakistan and India. Balance and Implications

    Post  par far on Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:37 pm

    Militarov wrote:"Moscow is in talks with with Islamabad about selling an unknown number of Su-35 fighters to Pakistan, a traditional enemy of Russia's ally India, reports China's Global Times.

    Whether Russia would damage its relations with India to sell fighters to Pakistan seems dubious, however, according to the report, which also said that a small number of Su-35 fighters would not strengthen the Pakistan Air Force to any degree against the Indian Air Force, which has hundreds of Su-30MKI fighters purchased from Russia in service.

    China has traditionally been the main supplier of military aircraft to Pakistan, the report pointed out. Beijing and Islamabad's close relationship since the 1950s may be prone to the covert collection of technological secrets by the PLA Air Force through the Pakistan Air Force. If Russia suspected such a leak, it would likely forego sales to Pakistan, according to the report."

    Source: http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?cid=1101&MainCatID=11&id=20150916000037



    Russia is really trying to piss off India, isn't it?
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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: Arms sales to Pakistan and India. Balance and Implications

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:08 pm

    Militarov wrote:"Moscow is in talks with with Islamabad about selling an unknown number of Su-35 fighters to Pakistan, a traditional enemy of Russia's ally India, reports China's Global Times.

    Whether Russia would damage its relations with India to sell fighters to Pakistan seems dubious, however, according to the report, which also said that a small number of Su-35 fighters would not strengthen the Pakistan Air Force to any degree against the Indian Air Force, which has hundreds of Su-30MKI fighters purchased from Russia in service.

    China has traditionally been the main supplier of military aircraft to Pakistan, the report pointed out. Beijing and Islamabad's close relationship since the 1950s may be prone to the covert collection of technological secrets by the PLA Air Force through the Pakistan Air Force. If Russia suspected such a leak, it would likely forego sales to Pakistan, according to the report."

    Source: http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?cid=1101&MainCatID=11&id=20150916000037


    It wont amount to anything. Pakistan is a small fry compared to India's deep pockets, I suspect this is no more than posturing to 'encourage' India to acquire a few for themselves.

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    Re: Arms sales to Pakistan and India. Balance and Implications

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