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    Cancelled-Experimental aircraft projects

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    milky_candy_sugar
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    Cancelled-Experimental aircraft projects

    Post  milky_candy_sugar on Fri Oct 30, 2009 4:18 am

    I've made several researches lately concerning project TU-2000 ( i am wondering, is the russian government started to invest in the project again?), when i came across "MIG-2000". Sadly, i couldn't find many additional informations concerning this project, and how it is different from TU-2000. Does anyone have any informations concerning this? Thanks

    Vladimir79
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    Re: Cancelled-Experimental aircraft projects

    Post  Vladimir79 on Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:40 am

    milky_candy_sugar wrote:I've made several researches lately concerning project TU-2000 ( i am wondering, is the russian government started to invest in the project again?), when i came across "MIG-2000". Sadly, i couldn't find many additional informations concerning this project, and how it is different from TU-2000. Does anyone have any informations concerning this? Thanks

    Both dead projects... the MiG-2000 and Tu-2000 were in competition with each other in the contest for a reusable space vehicle with hypersonic engines to get top speed before releasing a booster to get escape velocity. Tu-2000 won the competition but was cancelled due to funding. Tupelov now has the job of designing a hypersonic bomber that will expand on the work of the Tu-2000... difference is this one won't be going into space.

    sepheronx
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    Re: Cancelled-Experimental aircraft projects

    Post  sepheronx on Fri Oct 30, 2009 9:59 am

    Speaking of Pak Da, correct?

    Tupelov did state that it will be using a whole new airframe but concepts taking from TU-160 and Tu-22M series. Since you do not need both in today's warfare enviornment.

    Hope to see it by at least 2015 like MoD says.

    Vladimir79
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    Re: Cancelled-Experimental aircraft projects

    Post  Vladimir79 on Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:33 am

    sepheronx wrote:Speaking of Pak Da, correct?

    Tupelov did state that it will be using a whole new airframe but concepts taking from TU-160 and Tu-22M series. Since you do not need both in today's warfare enviornment.

    Hope to see it by at least 2015 like MoD says.

    I don't know what concepts you can apply to a hypersonic aerocraft except transonic regime and landing config. It is going to be radically different design.

    milky_candy_sugar
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    Re: Cancelled-Experimental aircraft projects

    Post  milky_candy_sugar on Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:20 am

    Indeed, completely different
    ....geez sometimes i hate Gorbachev for something...
    Suspect
    cuz of him TU-2000 is cancelled unshaven

    Vladimir79
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    Re: Cancelled-Experimental aircraft projects

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sat Oct 31, 2009 3:55 am

    milky_candy_sugar wrote:Indeed, completely different
    ....geez sometimes i hate Gorbachev for something...
    Suspect
    cuz of him TU-2000 is cancelled unshaven

    Gorby is a h8ed name in these parts. He and his crony Yeltsin destroyed this country.

    milky_candy_sugar
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    Re: Cancelled-Experimental aircraft projects

    Post  milky_candy_sugar on Sat Oct 31, 2009 8:06 am

    Now the governement better rebuild it fast....democracy doesn't really work in Russia, socially you always preffered strong types of governments (ofcourse not complete dictatorship). So Gorby and Yelstin's politic was shitty, it destroyed it all. Now Medvedev better work it out, economically Russia is not in a great situation at the moment, especially with the crisis
    "In russia we dont have the choice between dictatorship and freedom, but between dictatorship and chaos"-Professor Nikolai Borisov, Moscow State University
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    Vladimir79
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    Re: Cancelled-Experimental aircraft projects

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sat Oct 31, 2009 9:23 am

    milky_candy_sugar wrote:Now the governement better rebuild it fast....democracy doesn't really work in Russia, socially you always preffered strong types of governments (ofcourse not complete dictatorship). So Gorby and Yelstin's politic was shitty, it destroyed it all. Now Medvedev better work it out, economically Russia is not in a great situation at the moment, especially with the crisis
    "In russia we dont have the choice between dictatorship and freedom, but between dictatorship and chaos"-Professor Nikolai Borisov, Moscow State University
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    Russian democracy is at work, we want strong leaders who bring us prosperity and power. We have unhindered internet access so whoever wants to speak has their voices heard. If the government does not perform, people hit the streets as the million man march got Yeltsin to resign. Leaders know if the people don't support them, they won't last.

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    Re: Cancelled-Experimental aircraft projects

    Post  milky_candy_sugar on Sat Oct 31, 2009 9:25 am

    But once they are, the way they applicate the government is quite strong compared to other countries.....
    Pah "democracy is when 51% of the people impose it's reign over the resting 49%"....

    Vladimir79
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    Re: Cancelled-Experimental aircraft projects

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:41 am

    As an average citizen, I don't see it. I am free to say what I want, go online and post what I want, I can get a permit and protest where I want, I can go on strike anytime. It is the people that don't follow the rules of the system that recieve a heavy hand. Instead of fighting it, you work inside it to get change.

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    Re: Cancelled-Experimental aircraft projects

    Post  milky_candy_sugar on Sat Oct 31, 2009 12:01 pm

    "The rules of the system"- that's somehow the point
    But yeeesh i don't really like actual russian government....even if they can sound cool sometimes but they got a loooong way to go before becoming THE superpower

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    Re: Cancelled-Experimental aircraft projects

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sat Oct 31, 2009 12:25 pm

    What would you like to see happen in Russia?

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    Re: Cancelled-Experimental aircraft projects

    Post  milky_candy_sugar on Sat Oct 31, 2009 12:30 pm

    Personally? First of all, resolving all the main problems such as intern administration, diversification/modernisation of consumer's industry (third sector), demography etc
    after....i'll see

    Vladimir79
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    Re: Cancelled-Experimental aircraft projects

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:22 pm

    Well, I can't say much about the rest of it, but demography is picking up. We had our first population growth in the last 15 years.

    milky_candy_sugar
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    Re: Cancelled-Experimental aircraft projects

    Post  milky_candy_sugar on Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:24 pm

    *i'd like to somehow contribute to the demography xoxo russia *
    yeah i heard of it, but how many per cents?

    Goood...drink less and make babies....

    Vladimir79
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    Re: Cancelled-Experimental aircraft projects

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:45 pm

    milky_candy_sugar wrote:*i'd like to somehow contribute to the demography xoxo russia *

    Oh... you're killing me. yxaxa bounce

    yeah i heard of it, but how many per cents?

    Goood...drink less and make babies....

    You can read about it here. The growth was only 1,000 in the month of August, but it shows the population is stabalising from record declines. Higher pensions reduce premature death and family growth payments and paid daycare increase births. The biggest problem was high abortions which have gone down drastically.

    http://www.russiadefence.net/russia-f8/russia-records-first-population-growth-in-15-years-t430.htm

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    Re: Cancelled-Experimental aircraft projects

    Post  milky_candy_sugar on Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:49 pm

    Yay finally, they adopted the conveniant natalist politic bounce
    Still more efforts are needed...i hope in the next 20 years russia would reach 150-160 million
    Oh... you're killing me. yxaxa
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    Re: Cancelled-Experimental aircraft projects

    Post  Turk1 on Sat Oct 31, 2009 4:08 pm

    Russia is going down the tank. Don't you listen to your president?

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    Re: Cancelled-Experimental aircraft projects

    Post  milky_candy_sugar on Sun Nov 01, 2009 12:54 am

    Yeah but it's the most probable future superpower. China might reign for 10 years but....it has toooooo much internal problems, so according to me it would blow up
    India also, especially religious matters....
    America actually is in a BAD situation...so yeah, Russia, but i think that they should make some intern changes and restructure their administration a bit
    And make kids (i can help!!! lol! )

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    Russia's Radical Sukhoi S-37 Fighter Plane Goes Up Against Our F-22

    Post  nemrod on Tue Dec 29, 2015 3:22 pm


    Old article 2001.

    http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/a229/1281276/


    Russia's Radical Sukhoi S-37 Fighter Plane Goes Up Against Our F-22

    Russia's fabled Sukhoi Design Bureau builds the S-37, a 21st century fighter to go head-to-head with our F-22.

    A bold, new combat aircraft designed by the legendary Sukhoi Design Bureau and now undergoing tests in Russia has taken aim at America's next-generation fighter, the F-22. The Russian challenge comes in the form of the single-seat Sukhoi S-37, the world's first combat aircraft to successfully exploit forward-swept wing (FSW) technology.

    First word of the S-37 leaked to the West in 1997, and took Western defense analysts by surprise. Now, after more than 120 test flights at the secret Zhukovsky Flight Test Center near Moscow, it is clear that there is nothing like this bird flying anywhere in the world today. Its creator, the Sukhoi group, is considered to be Russia's premier combat aircraft producer. Sukhoi currently produces a family of topnotch operational fighters and fighter-bombers all based on the very agile and powerful Su-27 air superiority fighter. These include such models as the Su-33 aircraft carrier-based air defense fighter and the thrust-vectoring Su-37, a fighter and ground-attack aircraft. The general director of the Sukhoi Design Bureau and the Sukhoi Aviation Military-Industrial Complex, Mikhail Pogosyan, is proud of his company's success. But looking to the future, he sees the need to build a fifth-generation fighter and to find an eventual replacement for the Su-27. "The S-37 program [has] a critical importance for the development of our company," he tells Popular Mechanics.

    Named Berkut, which translates to mean Golden Eagle or Royal Eagle, the S-37 bears an "S" rather than an "Su" designation because it is an experimental rather than production aircraft. Design of the aircraft, originally known as the S-32, began around 1983, and drew on many years of FSW research that had commenced in the former Soviet Union during the 1940s—initially using captured Nazi technology. The Russians were also well aware of the Grumman X-29 FSW research aircraft, as two of these single-seat, single-engine planes were being tested in America between 1984 and the early 1990s (see "The Outer Limits").

    The S-37, however, is almost twice the size of the X-29, with a markedly different configuration. It has a length of 74 ft. and a wingspan of 54 ft. 10 in., with a maximum takeoff weight of just under 75,000 pounds. Power comes from two Aviadvigatel (Perm) D-30F6 turbofans, each developing 34,177 pounds of static thrust with afterburners—but without a thrust-vector ring. Together the engines give the S-37 a respectable, if unspectacular, top speed of around Mach 1.6. The aircraft may be re-engined with Sukhoi's preferred option of two Lyulka (Saturn) AL-41F turbofans with thrust vectoring, when these formidable engines—which pour out 39,350 pounds of static thrust with afterburners—become available.
    Unconventional Design

    The real innovations in the S-37 lie within its unconventional design. The swept-forward wing is part of a so-called "tandem triplane" arrangement, blending all-moving forward canards with the swept-forward wing, a short-span broad-chord swept horizontal tail plus outward-canted vertical tailplanes. To speed up manufacturing, some parts of the S-37 were borrowed from the Su-27 series, including the undercarriage and vertical tails, but the main flying surfaces are all new. The S-37's FSW layout meets Sukhoi's desire to create a fighter with super-maneuverability—one capable of maintaining stability and control at almost any altitude and angle of attack. Critical to achieving this is the aircraft's computerized fly-by-wire control system, probably similar to that used in the Su-35 and Su-37, which allows for the basically unstable aerodynamics of the aircraft to be under control at all times. Vital in dogfights, this system, coupled with the FSW layout, helps the S-37 reach the optimum attitude for launching missiles at short- and medium-range opponents. Pogosyan, formerly the chief designer of the S-37, points out that agility was a top priority. "We were looking for the technical solutions to increase aircraft maneuverability in close combat."

    The S-37's forward-swept, slightly tapered wing has leading-edge flaps and trailing-edge flaps and ailerons. Compared to a normal swept-back wing, the FSW potentially has better lift, good antispin and stall resistance, and allows a shorter takeoff run. At transonic speeds (around Mach 0.8 to Mach 1.3), it has a better lift-to-drag ratio than a conventional wing. During flight, airflow is directed inward across the wing's section, thus preventing aileron and tip stall at higher angles of attack, and allowing better control response at high angles of attack. That's great for dogfighting. The key to all this is the use of up to 90 percent composite materials in the wing's structure. Sukhoi has made a major breakthrough in the use of advanced composites in the S-37's wing, and these have proven able to cope with the considerable bending and structural loading on this type of wing during close-in maneuvering across a wide speed range.

    The FSW concept is very different from plans we've seen for the stealthy F-22 Raptor, its potential American rival (see "21st Century Fighter," Dec. 1999). Although the S-37 does have some stealth design features, and may be covered with radar-absorbent coatings, low detectability is secondary to the maneuverability created by the FSW.
    Secret Flight Tests

    The S-37 first flew in September 1997 at the Russian experimental base at Zhukovsky near Moscow. Test flights have been successful so far, with Sukhoi claiming that the S-37 has made more than 120 flights. But many questions remain.

    Will it remain simply as a proof-of-concept aircraft, with no actual production S-37 ever made? Will its radical technology be used in forthcoming Russian fighter designs, perhaps to meet the Russian air force's future heavy fighter requirements? Or will it form the basis of the already-rumored S-54 light fighter, a possible Russian rival to America's Joint Strike Fighter? It can certainly be said that a production model of the S-37 would be a match for any Western fighter.

    The S-37's big rival in Russia is the MiG 1.44. This experimental twin-engined fighter first flew, after many lengthy delays, in February 2000. Most Western observers believe that the MiG design, and not the S-37, will ultimately lead to a production fighter. However, Sukhoi has a possible trump card. The new Russian president, Vladimir Putin, is particularly friendly toward Sukhoi, and his planned reforms of Russia's aircraft industry could benefit Sukhoi. Pogosyan tells PM he is upbeat: "We have a good design and scientific organization, which enables us to successfully compete with the West."

    Much of the S-37 program remains veiled in secrecy, but its potentially world-beating design truly extends the boundaries of state-of-the-art fighter technology.

    This story originally appeared in the January 2001 issue of Popular Mechanics.


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