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    Chinese copyright of russian weapons

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    f-insas

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    Chinese copyright of russian weapons

    Post  f-insas on Sat Aug 20, 2011 1:35 pm

    it will be a huge mistake for the part of russian govt to sell millitary technolodgy to china not only they copy it but also supply many rouge countrys around world such as pakistan,north korea sudan and ultimately the same weapon can be used againt the russians ,by the part of china or another country ,as the chineese govt is hungry for more resource and land and they began to bully their neighbours in asia and may be it can happen agaist russia itself,as in past there is a history of conflict between them.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Chinese copyright of russian weapons

    Post  GarryB on Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:49 am

    At the end of the day if you sell weapons then you can expect to have to face your own weapons at some stage... and if you are not facing your weapons then you will be facing someone elses.
    If you don't sell weapons it does not mean you will face unarmed enemies.

    Selling them weapons is just part of the puzzle, integrate your economy with theirs so war is counter productive for both sides and you will not need to worry about it.

    North Korea and Pakistan are little direct threat to Russia, though both countries could work against Russian interests at the end of the day the US and the west has been doing that for such a long time I would expect Russia is used to pushing against the current anyway.

    f-insas

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    Re: Chinese copyright of russian weapons

    Post  f-insas on Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:58 pm

    if u sale same type of weapons to suppose india and china ,u have to leave one in that case if u prefer china ,we have nothing to say but only goodluck ,we have other suppliers in our doorstep such as us or uk or france. Laughing Laughing
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    GarryB

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    Re: Chinese copyright of russian weapons

    Post  GarryB on Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:01 pm

    But that is the point... they don't sell the same stuff to China and India.

    The Su-30MKI is much better than any model Su-30MKK sold to China.

    The RD-33s being produced in India are model 3 engines with 9 ton thrust, while the RD-98s sold to China are the old 8 ton thrust earlier models.

    The Chinese have S-300, but India doesn't seem to want Russian large SAMs...

    They sold stuff to China when any sale was keeping their business alive.

    India seems to be able to pretty much buy what it wants... after a 10 year period negotiating the price it seems.

    Now that there is a domestic customer buying military material the Russian MIC is not so concerned with exports because of their limited production capacity... of course exports means much larger profit margin but too much production capacity has its own problems.

    India is a free country and can certainly turn to the US and UK and France...

    When in production an An-124 costs around 120 million an aircraft... and India is paying $500 million for each C-17. Of course with US bribery the negotiations for purchases will be much shorter, but is India really getting a better deal? Politicians in India will suddenly get a lot richer as each deal is signed and the Indian military will end up with white elephants for conflicts with its neighbours... you will be able to use their equipment against China of course... but not for asserting your dominance in the region because no country is allowed a sphere of influence except the US.

    Pervius

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    Re: Chinese copyright of russian weapons

    Post  Pervius on Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:42 pm

    GarryB wrote:

    ......... no country is allowed a sphere of influence except the US.



    Any country willing to dump shiploads of its currency on someone is going to have friends. Why isn't the rest of the world doing it?

    The US Govt. ripped off its own citizens over the years to have Trillions to dump abroad to buy people off. Can you rationalize the mega Trillions Americans have paid for car insurance over the last 6 decades? Where is it????


    Anybody else in the world can do it to....if you can do it without your people revolting. Takes some careful planning to keep the sheeple from uprising. Look at America now...worse than the Great Depression.

    ...But the World's a booming from the US saving all those banks abroad and investing Trillions around the world.


    ...so quit whining....and get to investing. You too can tax your citizens out of jobs, homes, prosperity for decades...and use the money abroad to buy friends.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Chinese copyright of russian weapons

    Post  GarryB on Thu Aug 25, 2011 4:20 am

    The American Dream can only be applied when the people are sleeping.

    If the American people wake up it will be... why did we pick the red pill... reality is so depressing we should have taken the blue pill and stayed in the Matrix... Twisted Evil Twisted Evil

    Tell me I am wrong.
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    nightcrawler

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    Re: Chinese copyright of russian weapons

    Post  nightcrawler on Fri Aug 26, 2011 12:14 am

    North Korea and Pakistan are little direct threat to Russia, though both countries could work against Russian interests at the end of the day the US and the west has been doing that for such a long time I would expect Russia is used to pushing against the current anyway.

    To stop this trend I will vote for you Garry as Pakistan president Laughing
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    GarryB

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    Re: Chinese copyright of russian weapons

    Post  GarryB on Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:49 am

    Thanks NC, but I would not like that sort of job... the future of an entire country in your hands!

    I am sure some would love the power and prestige, but I would just be so worried of making things worse and not improving things for all the people...
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    Russian Patriot

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    Chinese copyright of russian weapons

    Post  Russian Patriot on Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:27 am

    Did China sign the deal on SU-35 yet?
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    GarryB

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    Re: Chinese copyright of russian weapons

    Post  GarryB on Sat Mar 10, 2012 2:00 am

    Hard to say... all the comments about deals are coming from the makers of the products or exporters of products, and nothing from the Russia government.

    I think all we can say is that China is interested, and the lack of governmental denials suggest that under the right terms this could go ahead.

    victor7

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    Re: Chinese copyright of russian weapons

    Post  victor7 on Sat Mar 10, 2012 2:34 am

    J-10 is a total copy of Su27
    J-11 is a total copy of Su30


    Russia should put the foot down now, either China pays up or it will not get Su-35s.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Chinese copyright of russian weapons

    Post  GarryB on Sat Mar 10, 2012 3:50 am

    A couple of follow on orders for a total of 200-300 Su-35s would be very profitible for Sukhoi and would likely drive down the cost of the Su-35 for the Russian AF who could order more aircraft too.

    I was initially against the sales myzelf, but at the end of the day if they don't buy Su-35s it is only a matter of time before the EU drops its sanctions and tries to sell them Typhoons and Rafales and Gripens.

    The Su-35 the Chinese get will not be the Su-35 the Russian AF will get.
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    SOC

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    Re: Chinese copyright of russian weapons

    Post  SOC on Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:31 am

    victor7 wrote:J-10 is a total copy of Su27

    Have you seen a J-10?

    victor7 wrote:J-11 is a total copy of Su30

    The J-11 is a license-built Su-27SK. The J-11B is the problem, it's a J-11 with Chinese engines, avionics and weapons that isn't covered by the license production deal as far as I know.

    victor7

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    Re: Chinese copyright of russian weapons

    Post  victor7 on Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:16 pm

    Looking that J10/J11 if they have no symbols, one would mistake them for Su-27/Su30........very easily. Chinese are shameless copycats, accept that!

    vK_man

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    Re: Chinese copyright of russian weapons

    Post  vK_man on Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:57 pm

    Airforce? Russia should be heavily investing into reconstructing/advancing its torsional/scalar ,Narrowband HPM arsenal alongside civil defence.

    Airforce won't save russia in a full scale nuclear/biological war.

    Mindstorm

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    Re: Chinese copyright of russian weapons

    Post  Mindstorm on Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:04 pm

    Have you seen a J-10?

    SOC ,believe me, the effort is completely wasted ,we can see here the most clear example of the nefarious effects of low level mantras and mental loops , absorbed in years in low level media, on the mind of a young guy.

    In F-16.net it would find its perfect environment and i have also strongly suggested to him this solution but it seem that it want at any cost to remain here for teach to us that J-10 is a retro-engineered ....Su-27 Razz Razz


    victor7

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    Re: Chinese copyright of russian weapons

    Post  victor7 on Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:15 pm

    keep you suggestions up your long and never ending sentences that i don't find easy to read. thank you!
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    TR1

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    Re: Chinese copyright of russian weapons

    Post  TR1 on Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:20 pm

    J-10 has nothing to do with Su-27 (aside from AL-31 engine).

    victor7

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    Re: Chinese copyright of russian weapons

    Post  victor7 on Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:23 pm

    http://stratrisks.com/geostrat/4607

    Doing what China does the best!
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    SOC

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    Re: Chinese copyright of russian weapons

    Post  SOC on Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:47 am

    victor7 wrote:Looking that J10/J11 if they have no symbols, one would mistake them for Su-27/Su30........very easily. Chinese are shameless copycats, accept that!

    This is a J-10. If you're confusing this with an Su-27 or Su-30, then I don't know what else to say dunno

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    Russian Patriot

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    Re: Chinese copyright of russian weapons

    Post  Russian Patriot on Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:16 am

    Russia-China Su-35 Fighter Talks Frozen

    RIA Novosti

    12:31 17/04/2012 KUALA LUMPUR, April 17 (RIA Novosti) - Negotiations on the sale of Russian advanced Su-35 Flanker-E fighters to China have been put on hold over Beijing’s refusal to buy a large consignment, Russian state-controlled arms exporter Rosoboronexport said on Tuesday.

    “We have been promoting the Su-35 fighter on the Chinese market,” Rosoboronexport deputy chief Viktor Komardin said.

    “However, China only wants to buy a limited number [of aircraft] whereas we want [to sell] a large consignment to make [the deal] economically viable.”

    He offered no indication of the numbers involved

    The negotiations have been ongoing for more than one and a half years.

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2012/04/mil-120417-rianovosti01.htm

    victor7

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    Re: Chinese copyright of russian weapons

    Post  victor7 on Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:24 am

    Shameless Chinese want to copy the Su-35s and then become a competition in the arms market. No deal if they do not buy atleast 10-12 dozen 35s.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Chinese copyright of russian weapons

    Post  GarryB on Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:55 am

    They can't even copy its engine, I rather suspect its other good bits will be too hard too, but I agree with Russias stance... buy lots or none.

    I rather suspect that when the US starts introducing F-35s to the region that China might change its tune... unless the Europeans get so desperate for money they offer to sell some Euro canards for knock down prices... but then after China cancels the deal after 4 have been delivered they will have burned all their bridges.

    victor7

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    Re: Chinese copyright of russian weapons

    Post  victor7 on Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:57 am

    Chinese will outright copy the technology. Indians demand a tech exchange openly. That is why they refused Mig-35 because a) Rafeal was stealthy b) total technology transfer where Russia would offer only kit assembly c) 50% reinvestment into Indian industries where as Russia was offering only 30% but then Mig35 was nearly half the price too.

    Fine, if Indians learn a new trick or two from Rafeal technology and apply it on PakFa then good for both Russia and India. They might need stealthy planes to have force multiplier type advantage over Pak or China.

    Anyone going after Rafeal or EFT and overlooking Su-35 is just throwing money away. Good training and tactics make up alot more than any 10-20% difference in the total complex capabilities.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Chinese copyright of russian weapons

    Post  GarryB on Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:00 am

    Chinese will outright copy the technology. Indians demand a tech exchange openly. That is why they refused Mig-35 because a) Rafeal was stealthy b) total technology transfer where Russia would offer only kit assembly c) 50% reinvestment into Indian industries where as Russia was offering only 30% but then Mig35 was nearly half the price too.

    If China could copy that easily why do they import Russian engines for their YF-17s... the engines they import are RD-33s with the gearbox shifted. The RD-33 entered Soviet service in the mid 1980s but the Chinese are unable to copy it themselves.

    Regarding the Indian MRCA competition... a) there was not stealth requirement in the competition so that is irrelevant. The so called stealth of the Rafale requires minimum external weapon carriage so it is largely irrelevant anyway. B) if that were true how did Mig make it to the later stages of the competition? AFAIK Mig were offering joint development and production as per the requirements. Mig has dealt with the Indians before and know what they want.

    The real reason that the Mig was rejected is because it is Russian and Mig could hardly change that.

    I have no problem with the Indians saying they want diversification of products, my problem is that they waited till Mig had spend a lot of time and money before telling them they were wasting their time... which I do have a problem with.

    Mig already have contracts for upgrading in service Indian Mig-29s to UPG level, and of course they have the contracts to make the naval K models for India and Russia.

    Anyone going after Rafeal or EFT and overlooking Su-35 is just throwing money away.

    Politics and fashion have more influence on military purchases than you seem to give credit for.

    An example is South Korea buying F-15Ks instead of Su-35s... there is no chance for South Korea to buy Su-35s because they are Americas btch and if you cross the US like that you end up like Iran or Venezuela...

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