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    Iran Air Defense Systems

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    TR1

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    Re: Iran Air Defense Systems

    Post  TR1 on Mon May 12, 2014 10:28 pm

    Iran needs to stop taking photos of lame mockups.

    Nice "radar array" on that SAM.
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    AlfaT8

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    Re: Iran Air Defense Systems

    Post  AlfaT8 on Sat Aug 30, 2014 3:46 pm

    ‘First shot’: Iran tests Bavar-373 system aimed to substitute Russian S-300
    Tehran has showcased an indigenous long-range air defense system, the Bavar-373 missile, developed as an alternative to the Russian S-300 after Moscow canceled its contract.

    "Bavar-373 has fired a first successful shot," the commander of the Khatam ol-Anbia Air Defense Base, Brigadier General Farzad Esmayeeli, told Iranian state TV on Friday.

    According to Iranian security officials, the new system is better than the Russian S-300, as it is able to track over 100 targets, just like the Russian system but with a higher targeting capability.
    http://rt.com/news/183856-bavar373-missile-iran-s300/
    What do you guys think about this "S-300 replacement". scratch
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    Mike E

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    Re: Iran Air Defense Systems

    Post  Mike E on Sat Aug 30, 2014 6:57 pm

    AlfaT8 wrote:
    ‘First shot’: Iran tests Bavar-373 system aimed to substitute Russian S-300
    Tehran has showcased an indigenous long-range air defense system, the Bavar-373 missile, developed as an alternative to the Russian S-300 after Moscow canceled its contract.

    "Bavar-373 has fired a first successful shot," the commander of the Khatam ol-Anbia Air Defense Base, Brigadier General Farzad Esmayeeli, told Iranian state TV on Friday.

    According to Iranian security officials, the new system is better than the Russian S-300, as it is able to track over 100 targets, just like the Russian system but with a higher targeting capability.
    http://rt.com/news/183856-bavar373-missile-iran-s300/
    What do you guys think about this "S-300 replacement". scratch

    I'm negative about it... Iran has no experience in building long range SAMs, never mind good ones! They would be smart to try and contract Russia for avionics at the very least. That tracking ability is BS no exceptions.
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    Werewolf

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    Re: Iran Air Defense Systems

    Post  Werewolf on Sat Aug 30, 2014 7:49 pm

    Actually that is less about current projects and their quality rather then a long term development and testing of their Military Industrial Complex. Iran already has seen that even russia bows down just because some jews are bitching abour S-300 missiles and therefor Russia in case when jews bitch around are not that credible and reliable to get a product and deal done. That is exactly why Iran has started to develope its Military Industrial Complex to get everything they need on them own, but that is a rather long term solution which will show results in several years or better decades, but better start now then later.
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    Mike E

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    Re: Iran Air Defense Systems

    Post  Mike E on Sat Aug 30, 2014 8:18 pm

    Werewolf wrote:Actually that is less about current projects and their quality rather then a long term development and testing of their Military Industrial Complex. Iran already has seen that even russia bows down just because some jews are bitching abour S-300 missiles and therefor Russia in case when jews bitch around are not that credible and reliable to get a product and deal done. That is exactly why Iran has started to develope its Military Industrial Complex to get everything they need on them own, but that is a rather long term solution which will show results in several years or better decades, but better start now then later.
    True, but either way they need at least a little assistance from Russia on SAMs. - Aka, they need to have a similar MIC to India... They relied on Russia for many years, but now uses their experience with them to build their own weapons.
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    Werewolf

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    Re: Iran Air Defense Systems

    Post  Werewolf on Sat Aug 30, 2014 8:32 pm

    The 5th column consisting of mainly jews has lot of power in russia same as in US. That is also the reason why you don't hear much from russia about gaza, just some side notes but not really anything of value.
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    dino00

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    Re: Iran Air Defense Systems

    Post  dino00 on Sun Aug 31, 2014 10:49 am

    The Jews are in all the topics... Rolling Eyes
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    nemrod

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    Iran tests Bavar-373 system aimed to substitute Russian S-300

    Post  nemrod on Sun Aug 31, 2014 9:39 pm

    In my opinion, it is dubious if Iran could implement itself this project without any foreign help.
    Not because iranians are unable, on contrary, iranians are among the top scientists in the world. Nevertheless, iranians are not necessarily RII -Republic Islamic of Iran-, and RII is not necessarily all iranians, as many high competent iranian scientists are working in western countries.
    This project of Bavar 373 is not possible without the help of either China, or North Korea, Russia, or Belarussia, if not Ukraine. But I think China is more likely. If it is China, Russia somewhat commited by giving the green light, if not providing russian pundits.



    http://rt.com/news/183856-bavar373-missile-iran-s300/


    Tehran has showcased an indigenous long-range air defense system, the Bavar-373 missile, developed as an alternative to the Russian S-300 after Moscow canceled its contract.

    "Bavar-373 has fired a first successful shot," the commander of the Khatam ol-Anbia Air Defense Base, Brigadier General Farzad Esmayeeli, told Iranian state TV on Friday.

    According to Iranian security officials, the new system is better than the Russian S-300, as it is able to track over 100 targets, just like the Russian system but with a higher targeting capability.

    "We believe that 'Bavar' and '3rd of Khordad' missile shields are better than some other long-range missile defense systems of the country," ol-Anbia added, Fars news reports.

    Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, ordered the development of the missile system, after then Russian President Dmitry Medvedev banned armed sales to the country in light of UN sanctions against Tehran. Following the move, Iran filed a $4 billion lawsuit against Russia in the international arbitration court in Geneva.

    The S-300 is a long-range surface-to-air missile system produced by NPO Almaz. It is designed to be used as a defensive weapon against aircraft and cruise missiles.

    Meanwhile, Iran’s Air Defense commander boasted that the country's defense systems will track down all of Islamic Republic's enemies if they fly over Iran's airspace.

    “We give a warning to the enemy’s aircraft before entering the Islamic Republic’s airspace, and deem any kind of intruding drones or planes of enemy a threat, and shoot it down immediately in case of entry [into Iran],” Colonel Mahmoud Ahmadi, commander of Iran’s southwestern Air Defense zone, Tasnim news reported.

    A drawing of the Bavar-373 (Image from wikipedia.org)

    A drawing of the Bavar-373 (Image from wikipedia.org)

    This follow an August 24 incident, when the country's forces shot down a stealth drone thought to be sent from Israel. The invading “Hermes” aircraft was intercepted by a surface-to-air missile.

    Iran has also unveiled plans to increase the number of air defense sites from the current 3,600 to 5,000, according to Brigadier General Farzad Esmayeeli.
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    Mike E

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    Re: Iran Air Defense Systems

    Post  Mike E on Sun Aug 31, 2014 11:13 pm

    They would need India, maybe China, or better yet, Russia to build it successfully. Both Belarus and especially NK wouldn't be of much help.

    I also doubt most claims about it, like the "100 targets" one.
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    nemrod

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    Re: Iran Air Defense Systems

    Post  nemrod on Mon Sep 01, 2014 12:10 am

    Mike E wrote:They would need India, maybe China, or better yet, Russia to build it successfully. Both Belarus and especially NK wouldn't be of much help.

    I also doubt most claims about it, like the "100 targets" one.

    In a war, you can see every kind of propaganda, then lies. Obviously Iran overstates the capacity of its hardware, as US with its F-22, F-15, F-18, F-35 or B2, as the israelis with their Idon Dome, or Merkava IV with their so-called shields the famous Trophy.
    Now, Iran said, it does not mean it is the truth, but I would be curious who provided to iranians this transfert of know-how.
    I think North Korea, as Belarus are fully capable to build a system like S-300. The question is now about its supposed efficiency, Iam not conviced that the Bavar-373, or even S-300 could  deter a western airstrike against Iran.
    Sincerly I don't know, if someone among you could tell us more...
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    Mike E

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    Re: Iran Air Defense Systems

    Post  Mike E on Mon Sep 01, 2014 1:03 am

    True, every country, even Russia on occasion, overstates their military prowess.

    "Like a S-300", yes, as good as one, no. Especially for NK, it might have a range of ~400 km, but it would probably have a kill probability of like 0.10 or something bad... They simply have no industry, neither does Belarus, even though theirs is more advanced.

    I've heard you opinion on this many times, and I disagree. I personally believe that the S-300, and more so the S-400, would do more than just "deter" an airstrike... The Bavar-373 on the other hand...... (Let's keep it at there's a reason every country in the world wants more SAMs, including Russia.)

    To be honest, I'm no expert on this kind of thing as well... What I do know, is that the US forces as expressed their feeling towards Russian S-300 and S-400 systems, and those feelings are always filled with fear...
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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: Iran Air Defense Systems

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Mon Sep 01, 2014 1:47 am

    Mike E wrote:True, every country, even Russia on occasion, overstates their military prowess.

    "Like a S-300", yes, as good as one, no. Especially for NK, it might have a range of ~400 km, but it would probably have a kill probability of like 0.10 or something bad... They simply have no industry, neither does Belarus, even though theirs is more advanced.

    I've heard you opinion on this many times, and I disagree. I personally believe that the S-300, and more so the S-400, would do more than just "deter" an airstrike... The Bavar-373 on the other hand...... (Let's keep it at there's a reason every country in the world wants more SAMs, including Russia.)

    To be honest, I'm no expert on this kind of thing as well... What I do know, is that the US forces as expressed their feeling towards Russian S-300 and S-400 systems, and those feelings are always filled with fear...

    Come on don't lump the White Russian arms industry with that of North Korea, they have a significant manufacturing capability considering a land locked country of it's size.
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    Mike E

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    Re: Iran Air Defense Systems

    Post  Mike E on Mon Sep 01, 2014 3:38 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Mike E wrote:True, every country, even Russia on occasion, overstates their military prowess.

    "Like a S-300", yes, as good as one, no. Especially for NK, it might have a range of ~400 km, but it would probably have a kill probability of like 0.10 or something bad... They simply have no industry, neither does Belarus, even though theirs is more advanced.

    I've heard you opinion on this many times, and I disagree. I personally believe that the S-300, and more so the S-400, would do more than just "deter" an airstrike... The Bavar-373 on the other hand...... (Let's keep it at there's a reason every country in the world wants more SAMs, including Russia.)

    To be honest, I'm no expert on this kind of thing as well... What I do know, is that the US forces as expressed their feeling towards Russian S-300 and S-400 systems, and those feelings are always filled with fear...

    Come on don't lump the White Russian arms industry with that of North Korea, they have a significant manufacturing capability considering a land locked country of it's size.

    What are you trying to imply... NK's MIC is based off of copying, licensing, and in certain cases, "upgrading". Other countries around the same size have larger, nevermind more advanced MICs.

     - We are talking about Iran.
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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: Iran Air Defense Systems

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Mon Sep 01, 2014 6:03 am

    Mike E wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Mike E wrote:True, every country, even Russia on occasion, overstates their military prowess.

    "Like a S-300", yes, as good as one, no. Especially for NK, it might have a range of ~400 km, but it would probably have a kill probability of like 0.10 or something bad... They simply have no industry, neither does Belarus, even though theirs is more advanced.

    I've heard you opinion on this many times, and I disagree. I personally believe that the S-300, and more so the S-400, would do more than just "deter" an airstrike... The Bavar-373 on the other hand...... (Let's keep it at there's a reason every country in the world wants more SAMs, including Russia.)

    To be honest, I'm no expert on this kind of thing as well... What I do know, is that the US forces as expressed their feeling towards Russian S-300 and S-400 systems, and those feelings are always filled with fear...

    Come on don't lump the White Russian arms industry with that of North Korea, they have a significant manufacturing capability considering a land locked country of it's size.

    What are you trying to imply... NK's MIC is based off of copying, licensing, and in certain cases, "upgrading". Other countries around the same size have larger, nevermind more advanced MICs.

     - We are talking about Iran.

    I'm not defending NK, I'm talking about Belarus. MAZ trucks are of high quality (fitted to the Topol-M's), they also produce quality and powerful mega dump trucks for excavation sites. Belarus MIC is limited, but not all that bad either.
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    Mike E

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    Re: Iran Air Defense Systems

    Post  Mike E on Mon Sep 01, 2014 6:15 am

    Ok, Belarus is a completely different situation... They could, the question is how long it would take etc. MAZ trucks are some of the best, or they wouldn't be used by Russia....
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: Iran Air Defense Systems

    Post  Vladimir79 on Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:21 am

    I'm surprised no one has figured out the ploy. We sell them, say we didn't and the next year Iran has a perfect clone.


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    Mike E

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    Re: Iran Air Defense Systems

    Post  Mike E on Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:39 am

    Vladimir79 wrote:I'm surprised no one has figured out the ploy.  We sell them, say we didn't and the next year Iran has a perfect clone.

    Now that I think about it... It could be some sort of licensed-production model, without the US knowing...
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    nemrod

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    Re: Iran Air Defense Systems

    Post  nemrod on Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:21 am

    Vladimir79 wrote:I'm surprised no one has figured out the ploy.  We sell them, say we didn't and the next year Iran has a perfect clone.

    For that reason, since the begining, when I saw the first prototype a couple of years ago, I suspected Russia is behind. Nevertheless Russia has a good relationships with Israel, has a good relationships with many arabs states and Iran. Moreover, Russia tried to comply to US will in order to avoid any troubles. For that reason, as I said above, gave discretly the green light, they provided pundits to China, North Korea, Belarus, Ukraine. Iam continue to think that it is doubfull if Iran could itself implement this project without foreign help.
    Furthermore, I think Russia provided too, pundits the iranian nuclear technlogies, either in heavy water, or centrifuges. As we witnessed a mega deal between Iran and Russia occured these past days, it must be negociated for at least several years ago.

    It is hard sometimes to understand russian's diplomatic scenes.
    However, I continue to think that Belarus could easily provided experts to iranians, they have the technology. Concerning North Korea, it is more complicated, they have the technology too, and if they have not, it was provided by either China, Pakistan, or even South Korea.


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    Mike E

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    Re: Iran Air Defense Systems

    Post  Mike E on Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:51 am

    nemrod wrote:
    Vladimir79 wrote:I'm surprised no one has figured out the ploy.  We sell them, say we didn't and the next year Iran has a perfect clone.

    For that reason, since the begining, when I saw the first prototype a couple of years ago, I suspected Russia is behind. Nevertheless Russia has a good relationships with Israel, has a good relationships with many arabs states and Iran. Moreover, Russia tried to comply to US will in order to avoid any troubles. For that reason, as I said above, gave discretly the green light, they provided pundits to China, North Korea, Belarus, Ukraine. Iam continue to think that it is doubfull if Iran could itself implement this project without foreign help.
    Furthermore, I think Russia provided too, pundits the iranian nuclear technlogies, either in heavy water, or centrifuges. As we witnessed a mega deal between Iran and Russia occured these past days, it must be negociated for at least several years ago.

    It is hard sometimes to understand russian's diplomatic scenes.
    However, I continue to think that Belarus could easily provided experts to iranians, they have the technology. Concerning North Korea, it is more complicated, they have the technology too, and if they have not, it was provided by either China, Pakistan, or even South Korea.



    It could be a Russian design (or even Belarusian etc) design simply sold to Iran. I think if Russia or any country for that matter had more to do with it than that, US would of figured it out... Who knows, maybe if some more info is revealed...

    The design really is similar to the S-300, from what I've heard.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Iran Air Defense Systems

    Post  GarryB on Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:28 am

    Clever also because if it is believed to be a domestic copy then local production rights would no longer be an issue.

    Even more clever because it allows for the future addition of the full sized 380km range large missile because if Iran developed it itself then it is not bound by the agreements on exports of long range precision guided weapons that limits Brahmos to 300km range for instance...


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    Werewolf

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    Re: Iran Air Defense Systems

    Post  Werewolf on Tue Sep 02, 2014 12:45 pm

    If that is the case what Vlad said that would be great for Iran's capability to sustain against NATO and Israel aggression and give them a little bit of safe time to further develope MIC and capabilities to build some military capabilities to react to such aggressions.
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    nemrod

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    Re: Iran Air Defense Systems

    Post  nemrod on Tue Sep 02, 2014 1:46 pm

    I forgot to add with or without foreign help, Iran anyway would have succeeded to build it. It is in fact a prowess. Of course, it could not deter an US attack against Iran, It is doubfull if it could stop a squadron of F-22, nevertheless, it could inflict a significant losses to US air fleet, at a point where US would decide to either postpone, or to cancel. Hence it could significantly complicate any US attacks. Moreover, with the Bavar Irania air defense will completly deter every israelis attacks, leaving only US.
    Undoubtly, the next generation of iranian air defense missiles will be more powerfull, more cleaver, for Iran it is a major breaktrough. Iran now, will have to focus how get SU-27 or Mig-35, and how to develop them, it will give to Iran a reliable structure, in order to be a significant power in the middle east.



    Werewolf wrote:If that is the case what Vlad said that would be great for Iran's capability to sustain against NATO and Israel aggression and give them a little bit of safe time to further develope MIC and capabilities to build some military capabilities to react to such aggressions.

    After the catastrophic campaign against Gaza, Israel could no longer dare any new war in this current decade, or even later. It leaves Iran a free hand to develop its nuclear hardware, and now they are near to have the nuclear bomb, if not the thermonuclear hardware. You like or not Iran became a great power. Moreover, if now Iran undertakes a blockade in the Hormuz strait, Iam not sure  US and even with their allies could remove the blockade without the help of Russia, and China -China too is becoming a significant super power, we could not ignore it-.

    Do not forger, US empire works chieftly because of  the help of Russia -Yetlsin's administration-, once this help will leak, US has no solution. The blockade, the embargo against Iran, North Korea, runs because of the help of Russia. Desert Storm, Iraq's invasion in 2003, Serbia's atttack in1999, Libya's attack in 2011 were successfull because of the help of Russia. Their war in 1945 against Germany was succeeded because of the help of Russia.

    Without Russia, US are nothing.
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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: Iran Air Defense Systems

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:49 pm

    That's an interesting point of view that you put forward guys, seeing how the S-300 is going out of production so giving the Iranians the ability to produce export versions of the S-300 seems like a good idea, I also put out the idea that China obtained blueprints of the Pac-3 SAM from US based Raytheon databases and sold them to Iran:

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    Werewolf

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    Re: Iran Air Defense Systems

    Post  Werewolf on Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:01 pm

    I would not bet a single penny on Patriot to have any effecient capabilities to stop any slow ballistic missile and for sure not IRBM type off weapons.
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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: Iran Air Defense Systems

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:08 pm

    Werewolf wrote:I would not bet a single penny on Patriot to have any effecient capabilities to stop any slow ballistic missile and for sure not IRBM type off weapons.

    The most important point is that foreign countries that the Pentagon and NATO don't control, have in-depth knowledge of their most modern SAMS deployed.

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