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    Ukraine Military: Situation and Needs

    Viktor
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    Post  Viktor on Sat Nov 23, 2013 6:23 pm

    Cyberspec wrote:
    Viktor wrote:Phase 1: 

    1. Observer status in Custom Union
    2. Ditch EU Eastern Partnership (and NATO in relation that comes with it)

    Phase 2: 

    1. Full Euroasian Union member
    I predicted a while back that Ukraine will reunify with Russia in time, so I agree with Viktor's view.

    As for Ukraine joining the EU and Nato I think Russia would never allow that, even at the cost of starting a civil war in Ukraine....they practically said so publicly a few weeks ago.
    And here is another interesting development concerning Phase 2: Laughing Laughing Laughing 

    Ukraine’s Communists collect signatures in favour of referendum on joining Customs Union

    100 000 signatures where needed and jet Communist Party collected 3.5 million for national referendum on joining Customs Union. Now those "orange" guys can suck whatever they want 

    if referendum passes. russia 

    KIEV, November 22, 22:41 /ITAR-TASS/. Ukraine’s Communist Party has already collected 3.5 million signatures in favour of a national referendum on joining the Customs Union [of Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan], leader of Ukrainian Communists and members of the national parliament Petr Simonenko told Itar-Tass on Friday.
    Cyberspec
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    Post  Cyberspec on Sat Nov 23, 2013 8:50 pm

    100 000 signatures where needed and jet Communist Party collected 3.5 million for national referendum on joining Customs Union
    Interesting.

    I suppose it's too early to say how widespread the anti-Yanukovic protests will be, but going by the initial protest in Kiev (only a few hundred attended) it doesn't look too promising for the "Oranges"
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    Post  Pyrrus on Sun Nov 24, 2013 1:59 pm

    Everything may happen. Mass demonstrations are being organized in Kiev by both sides. Each wants to show its power and influence on people. You were right, Ukraine is politically very unstable country
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    Post  Viktor on Sun Nov 24, 2013 2:16 pm

    Pyrrus wrote:Everything may happen. Mass demonstrations are being organized in Kiev by both sides. Each wants to show its power and influence on people. You were right, Ukraine is politically very unstable country
    Demonstrations are not important as was expected (you have anti-EU and pro Custom Union huge demonstrations in Moldova today) but referendum is. Its outcome will forever shut orange pro-NATO/EU/USA mercenaries in Ukraine politics and than Ukraine will fall back in line Very Happy .
    Cyberspec
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    Post  Cyberspec on Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:10 am

    Viktor wrote:Its outcome will forever shut orange pro-NATO/EU/USA mercenaries in Ukraine politics and than Ukraine will fall back in line Very Happy .
    Looks like it won't happen until they rein in the Ukrainian oligarchs who essentially run the country since the end of the Soviet Union.

    A couple of interesting articles/analysis worth considering..

    Ukraine's "civilizational choice" - a Pyrrhic victory for Russia?
    http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com.au/2013/11/ukraines-civilizational-choice-pyrrhic.html


    Ukraine’s Turn to the East: A Geopolitical Accident
    http://darussophile.com/2013/11/24/ukraines-turn-to-the-east/
    zg18
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    Post  zg18 on Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:24 pm

    Cyberspec wrote:Ukraine’s Turn to the East: A Geopolitical Accident
    http://darussophile.com/2013/11/24/ukraines-turn-to-the-east/
    That is a good and realistic analysis , whatever crooks we have in my country there is always worse....
    zino
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    Post  zino on Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:56 pm

    Interfax news agency:

    -EU strongly disapproves of Russia's pressure on Ukraine, say Barroso, Van Rompuy
    -Fule: chance still there for signing Ukraine-EU accord

    They are biting hard, very hard, like a pitbull on a human leg....

    Shoud be nice to see Fule do facepalm in Vilnius. Finger crossing
    macedonian
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    Post  macedonian on Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:02 pm

    Cyberspec wrote:
    Viktor wrote:Its outcome will forever shut orange pro-NATO/EU/USA mercenaries in Ukraine politics and than Ukraine will fall back in line Very Happy.
    Looks like it won't happen until they rein in the Ukrainian oligarchs who essentially run the country since the end of the Soviet Union.

    A couple of interesting articles/analysis worth considering..

    Ukraine's "civilizational choice" - a Pyrrhic victory for Russia?
    http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com.au/2013/11/ukraines-civilizational-choice-pyrrhic.html


    Ukraine’s Turn to the East: A Geopolitical Accident
    http://darussophile.com/2013/11/24/ukraines-turn-to-the-east/
    We seem to be reading the same blogs...cheers Very Happy .
    Though, on this occasion I don't agree with 'the Saker' completely - but he's a great bloke, always open for great discussions..
    I really enjoy discussing things (and often learning new things) with him.

    zino wrote:Interfax news agency:

    -EU strongly disapproves of Russia's pressure on Ukraine, say Barroso, Van Rompuy
    -Fule: chance still there for signing Ukraine-EU accord

    They are biting hard, very hard, like a pitbull on a human leg....

    Shoud be nice to see Fule do facepalm in Vilnius. Finger crossing
    OH, the EU strongly disapproves, eh?! Baroso and Van Rompuy?! Those democracy firsters that went through the same election process that Saudi Arabian rulers went through?!!...I can't say I'm surprised.
    FFS how can anyone stand those people?! All of their statements resemble robotic repetitions of the same warn-out communist maxims.
    Perhaps the fact that I can't stand the EU itself is also a factor, but even without the EU, these people are idiots!
    Pyrrus
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    Post  Pyrrus on Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:49 am

    I'm sorry for the quality of translation, I had no time to do it properly. This is the opinion about the recent events given here http://geopolityka.org/ This is the text:
    In Ukraine last from four days protests after the transfer of information by the authorities there to suspend the procedure of signing the Association Agreement and the Kiev FTAs ( Deep and Comprehensive Free Trade Agreement ) with the European Union . On the streets of larger , mainly peripheral cities continue picketing and marches .

    In the Ukrainian capital on Independence Square ( Maidan ) gather a group of supporters of the opposition, which speak of its leaders , especially Arseniy Yatsenyuk ( Batkiwszczina ) and Oleh Tiahnybok (Freedom ) . In an emotional appeal to the participants in these meetings requested in the disclosure letter, is serving a sentence in prison Yulia Tymoshenko.

    Meanwhile, the course of events like the scenarios played out in the same places and in a similar composition of nine years ago , in 2004 , when mass protests technology combined with external pressures led to an unprecedented decision on the need for a third round of presidential elections . Chairman of the Foreign Affairs Committee of the Russian Duma Alexei canning wrote on his blog that " the real purpose of the new traps in Kiev is the same as in 2004 : the overthrow of Yanukovich 's pro-Western governments and the transfer of the opposition. Not spared on this forces and means . " A few days ago a deputy of the Supreme Council Oleg Cariew (Party of Regions ) reported their suspicions about the real objectives pursued by the U.S. Embassy in Kiev and training programs , suggesting that Washington some time preparing for the scenario of destabilization of the political situation in Ukraine.

    At the head of the U.S. diplomatic mission in Kiev is from July this year . Geoffrey Pyatt , far better known as a specialist for Latin America (including the National Security Council adviser ) , and then middle-ranking diplomat in India and Pakistan. It should be noted that G. Pyatt generally undertake work in countries with which the United States had some tension . Reports from India suggest that it dealt with intelligence activities , regarding the potential influence of Iran in the country and the region. Mission in Kiev is the first nomination ambasadorską G. Pyatt . Following the submission of credentials in Ukraine marked the diplomat that the U.S. supports the country's association with the EU , treatments for its energy independence from the Russian Federation and holding free presidential elections in 2015.

    For several months , as reported O. Cariew , under the auspices of the U.S. embassy organized TechCamp project in which trained activists of non-governmental organizations , primarily related to the opposition . The scope of training includes the ability to use social media to organize street protests and riots , protest movements information policy and the ways of influencing public opinion via the Internet . While training are cited examples of actions taken by the protest movements in Egypt , Libya and Tunisia during the so-called . Arab Spring . Recent training took place on 14-15 November in the U.S. embassy and was conducted by specialists who come specially from the USA. O. Cariew turned to the Supreme Council of interpellation on the matter, questioning the legality conducted by the diplomatic activities of the United States under international law , in particular the Vienna Convention .

    In the context of these events , you can anticipate that the current actions of the opposition are :

    - Top-down protest organized commercial ( Ukrainian media information appears on wages paid to participants of the picket ) , which would confirm the previously known thesis about the almost total commercialization of local social movements ;

    - A coordinated action with the U.S. diplomatic post in Kiev , conducted the passive sympathy diplomatic most EU countries ;

    - Testing technology colored revolutions before the presidential elections that should be held in 2015 ;

    - Operation legitimacy of new political actors who are able to get the potential to mobilize useful in the case of the " orange scenario " ;

    - Destabilization of the situation in Ukraine in connection with the decision of the Ukrainian government on a dialogue with Moscow.
    Cyberspec
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    Post  Cyberspec on Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:50 am

    macedonian wrote:
    We seem to be reading the same blogs...cheers Very Happy .
    Though, on this occasion I don't agree with 'the Saker' completely - but he's a great bloke, always open for great discussions..
    I really enjoy discussing things (and often learning new things) with him.
    I'm pretty busy lately so I don't read him regularly, but you're right he seems like a nice bloke with interesting ideas/insights.


    Pyrus wrote:This is the opinion about the recent events given here http://geopolityka.org/ This is the text:
    They must really hate Yanukovich even though he's pro EU....maybe not zealous enough I guess.

    I doubt they can repeat the same scenario as in 2004 because I think they don't have the money anymore for these risky geopolitical adventures.
    avatar
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    Post  Rpg type 7v on Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:55 am

    wow russia sure won this one , what could be the next country ?

    i have something for garry his weat dream coming true Laughing Razz russia affraid santa 

    http://www.universalnewswires.com/centralasia/viewstory.aspx?id=2341
    Pyrrus
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    Post  Pyrrus on Tue Nov 26, 2013 6:08 pm

    Cyberspec wrote:
    Pyrus wrote:This is the opinion about the recent events given here http://geopolityka.org/ This is the text:
    They must really hate Yanukovich even though he's pro EU....maybe not zealous enough I guess.

    I doubt they can repeat the same scenario as in 2004 because I think they don't have the money anymore for these risky geopolitical adventures.  
    I wouldn't be so certain Americans have no money. They restrained from attack Iran and first of all Syria, but they wouldn't spare money for new easy success - conquer of Ukraine for the West. Plotting is cheaper than leading the open war. Pro EU Ukrainians will do the job for them.
    Just for case, the more proper translation of this article directly from the source: http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?client=tmpg&depth=1&hl=en&langpair=pl|en&rurl=translate.google.com&u=http://geopolityka.org/komentarze/2549-pomaranczowa-powtorka&usg=ALkJrhhyRvGv-ejuj25aQlipEmhYa9j1jA
    Pyrrus
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    Post  Pyrrus on Tue Nov 26, 2013 6:20 pm

    Rpg type 7v wrote:wow russia sure won this one , what could be the next country ?

    i have something for garry his weat dream coming true Laughing Razz russia affraid santa 

    http://www.universalnewswires.com/centralasia/viewstory.aspx?id=2341
    is it really true, or the same like news from Australia? http://www.hoax-slayer.com/gillard-muslims-leave.shtml
    macedonian
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    Post  macedonian on Tue Nov 26, 2013 6:34 pm

    Cyberspec wrote:I'm pretty busy lately so I don't read him regularly, but you're right he seems like a nice bloke with interesting ideas/insights.
    Oh, don't tell me...10 hrs working days...
    But I prefer working for myself, and working my a.. off, and often get paid less than what used to, than ever, ever work for a large company.
    Never again. Cool 
    I'm my own boss now.

    Rpg type 7v wrote:wow russia sure won this one , what could be the next country ?

    i have something for garry his weat dream coming true LaughingRazz:russia:affraidsanta

    http://www.universalnewswires.com/centralasia/viewstory.aspx?id=2341
    Hey, speak for myself - I certainly would surrender to the Ruskies...Very Happy
    I seem to be in the minority here though...
    But, great news! (if true)
    Cyberspec
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    Post  Cyberspec on Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:47 pm

    Pyrrus wrote:I wouldn't be so certain Americans have no money. They restrained from attack Iran and first of all Syria, but they wouldn't spare money for new easy success - conquer of Ukraine for the West. Plotting is cheaper than leading the open war. Pro EU Ukrainians will do the job for them.
    They already had their people in power and stuffed it up. If they did have the money than we wouldn't be talking about this and the Ukr would've signed the agreement. The fact is all they can offer is slogans, pipedreams and AUSTERITY.

    But I don't doubt they will cause major problems.


    macedonian wrote:Oh, don't tell me...10 hrs working days...
    But I prefer working for myself, and working my a.. off, and often get paid less than what used to, than ever, ever work for a large company.
    Never again. Cool
    I'm my own boss now.

    Yeah 10-11-12 hr shifts. But I get more days off. I'm working on becoming my own boss (we'll see if it works) which is why I have less free time for my hobbies.
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    Post  flamming_python on Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:44 pm

    Yanukovich has stated that it would require the Ukraine $20 billion a year from the EU in order to re-orientate to Europe.
    This is right in the ballpark of what I was thinking as well.

    I'm very disappointing that an epidemic of mass-stupidity has broken out in the Ukraine; how can people be this dumb? The EU didn't even offer them a billion dollars; and even that was dependent on agreeing on an IMF loan first (which among its conditions had raising the pension age and a hike on utility prices).

    So disappointing.
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    Post  AlfaT8 on Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:00 am

    flamming_python wrote:Yanukovich has stated that it would require the Ukraine $20 billion a year from the EU in order to re-orientate to Europe.
    This is right in the ballpark of what I was thinking as well.

    I'm very disappointing that an epidemic of mass-stupidity has broken out in the Ukraine; how can people be this dumb? The EU didn't even offer them a billion dollars; and even that was dependent on agreeing on an IMF loan first (which among its conditions had raising the pension age and a hike on utility prices).

    So disappointing.
    Seriously, i knew the EU deal was bad, but damn i thought the Ukrainians wouldn't feel the consequences of there decision till after some years in the long term, but this is more like instant pain.

    P.S: Can you give us some links to these articles.
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    Post  zino on Thu Nov 28, 2013 9:49 pm

    macedonian wrote:
    Cyberspec wrote:I'm pretty busy lately so I don't read him regularly, but you're right he seems like a nice bloke with interesting ideas/insights.
    Oh, don't tell me...10 hrs working days...
    But I prefer working for myself, and working my a.. off, and often get paid less than what used to, than ever, ever work for a large company.
    Never again. Cool 
    I'm my own boss now.

    Rpg type 7v wrote:wow russia sure won this one , what could be the next country ?

    i have something for garry his weat dream coming true LaughingRazz:russia:affraidsanta

    http://www.universalnewswires.com/centralasia/viewstory.aspx?id=2341
    Hey, speak for myself - I certainly would surrender to the Ruskies...Very Happy
    I seem to be in the minority here though...
    But, great news! (if true)

    Guys, is a 2010 article!
    At that time rumors like that was common on the topic. An important italian geopolitacal magazine wrote on the thing as done. Probably some "NZ's friend" run to rescue the straggler one.
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    Post  zino on Thu Nov 28, 2013 10:03 pm

    Interfax news agency released an interview with Fule.

    Summary (for the lazy ones):

    -EU will not give up anything about Ukraine
    -Moldova and Georgia are almost done
    -EU refuses the trilateral discussion form with Ukraine and Russia
    -Visa facilitation with Azerbaijan (the irony of ipocrisy..)
    Viktor
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    Post  Viktor on Thu Nov 28, 2013 10:11 pm

    There was a anti-EU protest in Moldova capital few days ago. People want to enter Custom Union saying that their government is lying to them!!

    ‘Velvet revolution’: Thousands of Moldovans rally against pro-EU govt, ‘forced bondage’ of Euro-integration
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    Post  Vladimir79 on Fri Nov 29, 2013 8:56 pm

    Ukraine has three choices, either integrate with EU as major trade partner, keep it with Russia or diversify between the two.  The last option is preferable due to inability to get off of Russian gas.  The cost of meeting EU standards is little different than upgrading current infrastructure.  It has to be done so it might as well be to Western standards.  If you haven't noticed what Russia's dominance does to Ukraine, it limits sovereignty and keeps them from upgrading the economy.  Political and industrial pressure from Russia is too great unless the EU offers incentives which appear not to be on the table.
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    Post  zg18 on Fri Nov 29, 2013 9:59 pm

    In 2007, when Yulia Tymoshenko was still prime minister of the Ukraine, a European businessman attempted to conclude a contract there. He had spent sufficient time in the region to comprehend that one can achieve very little without paying bribes. The proposed Ukrainian deal nevertheless went wrong. The reason, he insists, was that Ms Tymoshenko demanded an astronomical commission fee. “I had never paid anyone that much before. Not even in Russia.”
    http://www.presseurop.eu/en/content/article/4353961-europe-not-much-card-sharp


    Well , well , well.... Beacon of democracy and human rights...... Laughing
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    Post  flamming_python on Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:09 pm

    AlfaT8 wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:Yanukovich has stated that it would require the Ukraine $20 billion a year from the EU in order to re-orientate to Europe.
    This is right in the ballpark of what I was thinking as well.

    I'm very disappointing that an epidemic of mass-stupidity has broken out in the Ukraine; how can people be this dumb? The EU didn't even offer them a billion dollars; and even that was dependent on agreeing on an IMF loan first (which among its conditions had raising the pension age and a hike on utility prices).

    So disappointing.
    Seriously, i knew the EU deal was bad, but damn i thought the Ukrainians wouldn't feel the consequences  of there decision till after some years in the long term, but this is more like instant pain.

    P.S: Can you give us some links to these articles.

    http://en.ria.ru/business/20120222/171457209.html
    http://www.ukrainianjournal.com/index.php?w=article&id=17703
    http://www.4-traders.com/news/President-of-Ukraine--President-Ukraine-plans-to-restore-negotiations-with-IMF--17606058/
    http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/klymenko-ukraine-able-to-agree-with-imf-on-loans-333454.html
    http://www.kyivpost.com/content/business/azarov-lashes-at-imf-for-outdated-approach-332790.html
    http://www.ukrinform.ua/eng/news/symonenko_interest_on_imf_loans_paid_from_pensions_of_ordinary_ukrainians_311947
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 on Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:16 pm

    Well, we saw how effective the reforms (in other words no money) were.

    A military utterly incapable of even basic policing duties on its territory.
    Don't take this as blanket support for Russia's actions in the Ukraine, but objectively, the Ukranian mil has shown it is useless. Utterly and completely.

    When the best your military can do is a wannabe Ghandi "unarmed" march to get control of its own airfields....IT AIN'T A MILITARY.
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    Post  arpakola on Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:36 am
























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