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    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

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    LMFS

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    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  LMFS on Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:43 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    Lets say its like this. We hate Russians to fail. Which they...sort of somehow manage always. Then we get alot of shit from our neighbours who cant stand Russians. So i have Croatian neighbour that literally calls you to tell you that Russian satelite launch failed.

    Do you get it now? I dont HATE Russian Navy, I HATE THAT THEY ARE FAILING. Which drives me to be critic, great, huge... massive critic. Fyi i am married to a Russian, so it makes very little sense for me to hate Russians.

    Yeah, pretty much what I meant, maybe it was not clear. It is the same with anybody fiercely criticising their own country because it hurts seeing it fail. You as a national can get really nasty, but for a foreigner this would not be tolerated Laughing Would not have guessed that Serbs have such a strong feeling for Russia!

    Sorry for the off-topic BTW!

    kumbor

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    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  kumbor on Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:49 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    LMFS wrote:
    Is the brotherhood between Serbs and Russians so deep that you feel comfortable bashing them for their failures? The Serbian community in the forum are the worse critics of Russian navy from what I see, is this like a family fight or something? respekt .

    Lets say its like this. We hate Russians to fail. Which they...sort of somehow manage always. Then we get alot of shit from our neighbours who cant stand Russians. So i have Croatian neighbour that literally calls you to tell you that Russian satelite launch failed.

    Do you get it now? I dont HATE Russian Navy, I HATE THAT THEY ARE FAILING. Which drives me to be critic, great, huge... massive critic. Fyi i am married to a Russian, so it makes very little sense for me to hate Russians.


    For unknown reason, project 22350 is full of problems. But, bear in mind that radar, sonar and FCS were planned to be of a new model. Poliment-Redut is naval version of S-350, which is still not completed for land use. Because of ukrainian idiots, Russia finally turned for domestically made GTs, and thet`s OK. However, I think that propulsion is the main issue.
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  Big_Gazza on Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:31 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    Big_Gazza wrote:
    LMFS wrote:Is the brotherhood between Serbs and Russians so deep that you feel comfortable bashing them for their failures? The Serbian community in the forum are the worse critics of Russian navy from what I see, is this like a family fight or something? respekt

    The Serbs have cucked themselves long ago when they succumbed to EU/NATO and allowed the 5th columnists into power.  The only thing they excel at now is their ability to rest on their knees for extended periods and to service whatever member is inserted into their collective pie-holes by their Overlords in Washington, or the Imperial satraps that are occupying Brussels.  I think the Serbs resent Russia for remaining sovereign and independent and free, all the things they themselves have failed to do.  Russia is an example of what Serbia could have been if they hadn't given in to EU geopolitical mendacity or NATO warmongering.  Milosevich, for all his failings, had it right when he opposed the Empire.  He is gone, and his "successors" have disgraced themselves and their nation with their venality and cowardice.

    Australian writing this is probably one of the top 10 ironies in...well...world...ever.

    ..and I've said as much too.  Try to keep up.

    edit: The difference of course is that we haven't been bombed for 78 days by a hostile terrorist state in response to our legitimate anti-terrorism operations within our own national borders, only to then turn against the government that defended us and then gotten down on our knees to thank our attackers...  Aussies may be hapless cucks to Imperials (1st the Brits, now the Seppos) but rain bombs on our heads and steal 15% of our territory to give to cavemen troglodytes we will tell you GFY.  Fucking Serbs betrayed their own nation and welcomed their rapist into the bed...  I have sympathy for Serbia and its plight (the Yankistani plot to dismember Yugoslavia along ethnic lines by encouraging old blood-feuds to incorporate its constituent pieces into NATO and the EU was a fucking WAR CRIME) but the behaviour of Serbs is appalling.  Instead of defying your enemies and defending yourselves you have capitulated to these cunts.  Your politicians don't even make an attempt at maintaining the rage or holding NATO/EU criminal elites to account...


    Last edited by Big_Gazza on Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:43 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    AlfaT8

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    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  AlfaT8 on Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:40 pm

    This drama has been going for way to long, we can only hope that all the problems have finally been hammered out and the modification are applied to the other ships.

    As far as i can see there's no choice but to continue with Gorshkov, it's the most recent and capable design, there is no alternative.
    With the possible exception of a modernized Grigorovich, but that's just gonna delay things more, and honestly the Grigorovich is already a revamped Kirvak.
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    KomissarBojanchev

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    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:55 pm

    miroslav wrote:
    KomissarBojanchev wrote:
    franco wrote:
    hoom wrote:I thought they'd previously announced it wouldn't be until late 2018 already? Suspect

    On the other hand & if I'm remembering wrong, its up North doing shooting trials atm so the timing of this announcement may represent results of those trials being less than satisfactory...

    Reading that they still don't have the bugs out of the Redut Air Defense system... same reason we are not seeing any S350's yet.

    But I read in march that the poliment redut is working perfectly.

    When was the last time you saw a test launch of that system on youtube or elsewhere, we saw plenty of Shtil launches, individual and salvos, at one or multiple targets.

    What does this have to do with reports of the poliment redut being ready?
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  Big_Gazza on Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:04 am

    kumbor wrote:For unknown reason, project 22350 is full of problems. But, bear in mind that radar, sonar and FCS were planned to be of a new model. Poliment-Redut is naval version of S-350, which is still not completed for land use. Because of ukrainian idiots, Russia finally turned for domestically made GTs, and thet`s OK. However, I think that propulsion is the main issue.  

    The delays on the Navys acceptance of Gorshkov seems to be due to systems integration and performance issues, which are to be expected to some degree for a ship with an all-new suite of weapons & sensors and a first-of-its-kind-for-Russia integrated combat system (like the US Aegis). Redut-Polimont performance issues were associated with the long range missiles (short range worked fine) which now appear to have been resolved.

    Gorshov hasn't been delayed as such by engine supply issues as she has a Ukropi MGT from Zorya-Mashproekt (as has Kasanatov) but series build had been essentially suspended as only a fool keeps building hulls when you don't have engines. Sounds like the build has been restarted (though its hard to tell), presumably as Saturn is close to completing certifications on the new MGTs.

    The two issues shouldn't be conflated, but of course, they always are. Agenda-driven narratives rarely change over something as insignificant as facts and demonstrable truth...
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:48 am

    AlfaT8 wrote:This drama has been going for way to long, we can only hope that all the problems have finally been hammered out and the modification are applied to the other ships.

    As far as i can see there's no choice but to continue with Gorshkov, it's the most recent and capable design, there is no alternative.
    With the possible exception of a modernized Grigorovich, but that's just gonna delay things more, and honestly the Grigorovich is already a revamped Kirvak.

    According to latest news your hope is futile:

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3254875.html
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    AlfaT8

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    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  AlfaT8 on Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:16 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    AlfaT8 wrote:This drama has been going for way to long, we can only hope that all the problems have finally been hammered out and the modification are applied to the other ships.

    As far as i can see there's no choice but to continue with Gorshkov, it's the most recent and capable design, there is no alternative.
    With the possible exception of a modernized Grigorovich, but that's just gonna delay things more, and honestly the Grigorovich is already a revamped Kirvak.

    According to latest news your hope is futile:

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3254875.html

    It might just be google translate, but he article is fairly positive.
    If true, there are still issues with the Redut that need to be hammered out, apparently.
    Either that, or the MoD, simply want another battery of test, just to be safe.

    hoom

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    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  hoom on Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:32 am

    If true, there are still issues with the Redut that need to be hammered out, apparently.
    Estragon: Let's go.
    Vladimir: We can't.
    Estragon: Why not?
    Vladimir: We're waiting for Poliment-Redut.
    Estragon: (despairingly). Ah!
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    Nibiru

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    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  Nibiru on Sat Jun 30, 2018 4:29 am

    With these abysmal delays, Russia should just forget about setting up a decent Navy. If they can't get things done even under Putin's leadership, then the problems they are having are likely very severe and won't get fixed in our lifetime. such a tragic reality!
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  Big_Gazza on Sat Jun 30, 2018 6:53 am

    Nibiru wrote:With these abysmal delays, Russia should just forget about setting up a decent Navy. If they can't get things done even under Putin's leadership, then the problems they are having are likely very severe and won't get fixed in our lifetime. such a tragic reality!

    Guess who misread the dosage on his Pessimism pills this morning?... FFS, the Navy runs exhaustive tests to fully evaluate the Polimant-Redut, and some people want to give up and hand the keys to Kremlin over to the Pentagon.

    hoom

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    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  hoom on Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:02 am

    Admiral Flota Sovetskogo Soyuza Godot
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    KomissarBojanchev

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    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:41 am

    How is it that the fucking S-500 is having less problems than the S-350?

    kumbor

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    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  kumbor on Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:42 am

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:How is it that the fucking S-500 is having less problems than the S-350?

    Problems of integrating weapon system on a warship are different in comparison with land SAM system. There are strict limits considering space, damage control, and survival of the warship.
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    KomissarBojanchev

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    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Sat Jun 30, 2018 11:01 am

    kumbor wrote:
    KomissarBojanchev wrote:How is it that the fucking S-500 is having less problems than the S-350?

    Problems of integrating weapon system on a warship are different in comparison with land SAM system. There are strict limits considering space, damage control, and survival of the warship.

    But the land S-350 is also buggy.

    I hope Im still living 80 years from now so I can read the declassified problems of the S-350 in detail.


    Last edited by KomissarBojanchev on Sat Jun 30, 2018 11:04 am; edited 1 time in total
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    KomissarBojanchev

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    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Sat Jun 30, 2018 11:02 am

    hoom wrote:Admiral Flota Sovetskogo Soyuza Godot

    eternally 5 months away...
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    AlfaT8

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    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  AlfaT8 on Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:53 am

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:
    kumbor wrote:
    KomissarBojanchev wrote:How is it that the fucking S-500 is having less problems than the S-350?

    Problems of integrating weapon system on a warship are different in comparison with land SAM system. There are strict limits considering space, damage control, and survival of the warship.

    But the land S-350 is also buggy.

    I hope Im still living 80 years from now so I can read the declassified problems of the S-350 in detail.

    80?.... 40 should be enough.

    Very curious case here, i thought the problems with the S-350 were production issues, after all the Korean System it's based on is already operational.
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    Isos

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    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  Isos on Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:33 am

    They are strugling with this redut system while they have s-300fm and could have even introduce naval s-400 by now which is far better than s-350.

    Those vls are not better than the older s-300F launchers because they are not universal and launch one type of missile or quad pack small ones which was also possible on old launchers but with biger and better missiles...

    They should stop with this class now and redesign something new for the non finished hulls and go for supergorshkov.

    hoom

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    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  hoom on Mon Jul 02, 2018 1:56 pm

    They have displayed export model with Fregat & Shtil-1.
    But I don't think that makes much sense compared to just building another batch of 11356.

    miroslav

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    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  miroslav on Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:20 pm

    hoom wrote:They have displayed export model with Fregat & Shtil-1.
    But I don't think that makes much sense compared to just building another batch of 11356.

    It makes plenty of sense at this point, that's what I was talking about earlier, put tested platforms and gadgets but with the latest mods. Gorskov is much bigger (or bigger enough) then Grigorovic, and can fit 2 times more Caliber/Onix missiles and has, by default, space for bigger CIWS systems and 3 Shtil launch complexes.

    Also, if you take a closer look, there is plenty of space in the back for two helicopter hangars for a configuration similar to Oliver Hazard Perry class, it had a beam of 14 m, Gorskov has 16 m, so the space is there, this would be great for antisubmarine escort duties. Just put an AK630 Duet in the middle somewhere so it can protect both sides, or standard AK630's and there you go.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:55 pm

    As far as we are aware, the issue is resolved (SAM). Latest delay was due to turbines.

    It would have been easier to install Shtil and use newer missiles that are available for Buk-M3 instead but they wanted this system working for obvious reasons.


    hoom

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    project 22350

    Post  hoom on Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:09 pm

    http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5383877
    Could it be? Finally!?  Suspect
    The head frigate of project 22350 "Admiral Gorshkov" is planned to be handed over to the fleet one day before the Main Naval Parade in St. Petersburg, the president of the United Shipbuilding Corporation (OIC) Alexei Rakhmanov told TASS.

    "There are such thoughts in the fleet, yes," he said, answering the question about whether the St. Andrew's flag will be raised on the "Gorshkov" on July 28 on the eve of Navy Day and the Main Naval Parade timed to this holiday.

    Edit: btw Gorshkov has transited to St Petersburg for Naval Parade along with an Oscar, Ustinov & one of the Udaloys


    Last edited by hoom on Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:48 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  KiloGolf on Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:12 pm

    hoom wrote:http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5383877
    Could it be? Finally!?  Suspect
    The head frigate of project 22350 "Admiral Gorshkov" is planned to be handed over to the fleet one day before the Main Naval Parade in St. Petersburg, the president of the United Shipbuilding Corporation (OIC) Alexei Rakhmanov told TASS.

    "There are such thoughts in the fleet, yes," he said, answering the question about whether the St. Andrew's flag will be raised on the "Gorshkov" on July 28 on the eve of Navy Day and the Main Naval Parade timed to this holiday.

    12.5 years for a frigate. Great stuff unshaven
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:38 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:
    hoom wrote:http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5383877
    Could it be? Finally!?  Suspect
    The head frigate of project 22350 "Admiral Gorshkov" is planned to be handed over to the fleet one day before the Main Naval Parade in St. Petersburg, the president of the United Shipbuilding Corporation (OIC) Alexei Rakhmanov told TASS.

    "There are such thoughts in the fleet, yes," he said, answering the question about whether the St. Andrew's flag will be raised on the "Gorshkov" on July 28 on the eve of Navy Day and the Main Naval Parade timed to this holiday.

    12.5 years for a frigate. Great stuff unshaven

    They should get other 3 ships in oh about 37.5 years and since no others were laid down in the meantime next (relatively) large medium vessel should come along in about 57 years... give or take...
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  miketheterrible on Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:51 pm

    Next ship is next year as because flagship was delayed to this year, next one is next year.

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