Engines are problem in last 2 years, but what is excuse for previouse 8?
They are introducing a battle management C4ISTAR system for their navy from Corvette up to carrier... how many US corvettes can fire supersonic anti ship missiles AND 2,500km range land attack cruise missiles?
The US navy still does not have that.
So now Ukrainians in ranks of Russian navy are guilty? Ok who appointent them? Who give them their tasks and who controled them? If Russian navy appointed wrong persons as responsible for such important tasks that is incompetence. But ok just 10 years passed lets wait for several more decades... and this ship will surely be finished..no reasons for worries.
What are you dribbling about?
The Ukrainians were subcontractors and were supposed to supply propulsion units. They reneged on the deal so now Russian contractors are being found to fill the gap.
Your problem is that they are not doing it instantly. I pointed out that even NASA with its huge budget can't fix the same problem as fast as the Russians are fixing their problem.
Is Russia capable to finish new generations of ocean going warships in 3-4 years as other significant naval countries? Answer is no. From one reason or another Russia is not capable to do so. Russia building minesweper of 600 tons for 4 years, 2000t corrvetes 4500t frigates and 6000t LS for 10+ years. That is sign of competence or incompetence?
A sign of ignorance.
Who makes the biggest and most powerful Ice Breakers?
Why should it matter how long it takes anyone else can make a ship?
Did they have to develop and produce the engines themselves half way through production of the ship?
Are they under economic sanctions from the west?
When a 2000 ton corvette has more capable missiles than a 5000 ton destroyer why does it need to be made at the same speed?
Russia said that new engines will be ready in 4 years, we will see they said Gorshov will be ready in 2009. I am a bit scepical that design and producing of complex naval engines is such a simple task but ok time will tell, i wish all luck to Russia in that task.
But china is just spitting ship out like turds from an American fat farm... yet those Chinese can't make an RD-93... which is just an RD-33 with the gearbox shifted.
Those european ships coming off the production line in their millions have subsonic anti ship missiles a Russian ship from the 1970s would be safe from.
And those super up to date Stealthy American ships... they are making three aren't they?
You believe that this rate of production is sign of Russian competence and that is ok. You have right to belive in whathewer you like, in holy cow if you like.
So lets pretend a miracle happens and suddenly they start producing 1,000 ships a year... WTF are they supposed to do next year?
It is not like they have a huge line of international customers lining up for ships.
Obviously you are a management expert and fully understand if you plan for mass production without the capacity to make things in enormous numbers you end up bankrupt because production capacity costs a lot of money... whether you actually use it or not.
They have lost access to a lot of shipyards in the baltic and the Ukraine, yet still needed all their shipping supported. Do you think they should have kept sending their shipping in Europe to the north pole for support in Murmansk or the long trip to the Pacific was a better solution?
I mean you are the one bitching about lack of new production but you do realise that maintainence and overhauls have to take place too...
I find that this rate of production is shamefull. Thera are a lot of things that Russia and their MIC could be proud of, but producing of big warships are not one of those things.
WTF would they need big warships for?
They need small ships and support ships to operate with the big ships before they would even consider building big ships.
Again sanctions are in game for last 2 years. Would you like me to compare Russia with Ukraina?
What sanctions have been imposed on the Ukraine?
From what I can tell the Ukraine has been given lots of gifts from the west, why do you think the Ukraine is comparable to Russia?
And how many new generation big ships have they made?
Comparing icebreaker with destroyer? And i am one who @dribbling@ what is next you will compare Lada Niva with Tank?
Yeah... the worlds largest and most powerful next generation ice breaker is like a motor car. Just like Russian stuff is all crap and they can't even make it very fast.
Russian people are stupid and can't make stuff.
Did i ever said that shipyards are only one who are to be blamed? Try to read my posts again.
yeah... I read your post... it is all of Russias fault... putin, stand in the corner and don't come back out till you are really really sorry.
No they are not as their space program is on track, unlike Russian naval program.
Ahhh, so Russian ships delayed because their engines are not ready yet it is all total failure of Russian State, but NASA has shit rockets and no substitute for Russian imports and have to fight congress and John McCain for every engine they import but they are a success... yeah I am the one that is biased and one eyed.
I am sure NASA will solve the problem... isn't it reduce taxes and print more money...
You know it is not shamefull not to produce everything on your own, it is not shamefull to buy thing from somebody who produce those things better then you do, it is not shamefull to admitt that you are not capable to perform every task.
It is nothing to do with shame. They were buying engines from Germany and from the Ukraine and both of those fucked up countries stabbed Russia in the back while smiling and claiming to be a friend in the case of Germany... not so in the case of the Ukraine.
Russia trusted both countries to deliver the products they paid for and both failed Russia. the solution is not a fast or pleasant solution, but it is a much better solution for Russia in the long term.
You can claim it makes them incompetent all you want. If they had never trusted in the first place they would not have had a period of growth that they did and would not be in a very good position now.
The position now means they don't need to wonder what might have been if they had been more friendly to the Ukraine or the EU... they know what cowards and backstabbers they are and that they are basically muppets controlled from Washington by a hostile enemy that can never be trusted.
Had they tried to do everything on their own to begin with they would not have revived their own industries in so many areas and would be on a steep uphill climb now.
At least now they know where they stand and that to make their country strong they need to be able to do everything important themselves.
That is what succesfull people do, they find proper man for job they need to be done and what job they do not know to finish themselves.
Yeah, cause only Ukrainians and Germans can make engines and only Ukrainians and Germans can be trusted with the defence of Russia...
And why even mentioning USA space program? You do not like to stick with subject? Not pleasant to discus succesfull Russina naval programs?
You were the one claiming the russians don't know what they are doing because everyone else can make ships faster.
Surely a comparison with the perfect American space agency NASA is ideal to prove the pitfalls of dealing with an unreliable partner... ironically the unreliable component in this case is John McCain and Congress and not Russia.
For something as critical as the future engines for Russian Navy vessels, and related propulsion systems used in powerplants and other engine types across the spectrum from land vehicles to aircraft then importing from unlreiable countries has been proven a mistake. They have started the process of dealing with the problem, yet still you whine.
They obviously should have known exactly what was going to happen.... the problem of course is that planning for every eventuality actually makes things more expensive and slower... not the reverse. If they had duplicated their capacity for making ship engines and still imported them they likely would not have been able to afford to upgrade the shipyards with new tools and equipment and they likely would be in a worse state... but when you popped up and said the Ukrainians and Germans were selling their engines why did the incompetent Russian Navy waste money producing something they were importing anyway... they should all be fired. :rolleyes: