Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Share
    avatar
    TR1

    Posts : 5680
    Points : 5708
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  TR1 on Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:43 pm

    Viktor wrote:
    TR1 wrote:I meant 32 missiles, not seperate units Wink. Unless they quadpack the 9m100, I suspect 9m96 numbers will be around 32.

    I think per launcher for the cruiser/destroyer/frigate goes.

    1x 48N6
    4x 9M96
    16x 9M100

    For smaller boats that may also have Redut system we will see 1x9M96 per launcher.

    THe Gorshkov is not meant to have 48N6. 9M96 is the largest missile intended to be carried.
    Just compare the 20380s with the Redut, it is known to have 12 missiles in the VLS, the Gorshkov's VLS does not appear to be more than 2.5 times larger, in surface area.
    The real question is, which variants of 9M96 will the 20380 and 22350 carry. Hopefully the 120km version.

    I have never heard of 9M96 quadpacking, only for the hopefullyt-stil-alive 9m100.
    avatar
    Viktor

    Posts : 5669
    Points : 6312
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 37
    Location : Croatia

    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  Viktor on Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:04 pm

    TR1 wrote:THe Gorshkov is not meant to have 48N6. 9M96 is the largest missile intended to be carried.

    48N6 is classified as medium missile same as 9M96


    TR1 wrote:Just compare the 20380s with the Redut, it is known to have 12 missiles in the VLS, the Gorshkov's VLS does not appear to be more than 2.5 times larger, in surface area.

    TR1 wrote:I have never heard of 9M96 quadpacking, only for the hopefullyt-stil-alive 9m100.

    You have never heard of 9M96 quadpacking ?



    or this



    I bet Redut in 20380 and 22350 is one and the same. Perhaps some smaller Redut

    VLS can be applied to 500t boats caring only one 9M96 missile per launcher or

    4x9M100

    TR1 wrote:The real question is, which variants of 9M96 will the 20380 and 22350 carry. Hopefully the 120km version.


    Difference is in length not in diameter and diameter is what counts.
    avatar
    TR1

    Posts : 5680
    Points : 5708
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  TR1 on Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:00 pm

    http://www.ausairpower.net/48N6E+9M96E1+E2-Rounds-1S.jpg

    Compare the big missile to the 9m96. There has been zero indication at all that the big missile is carried on 20380 or 22250.
    The 20380 has 12 missiles, this isnt a mystery, all Russian sources point to this. 22350 has identical cells, just more of them.
    Seems pretty clear to me.

    The quadpacking would be possible if the cells were designed for 46N6 from the start. But, they were not.
    avatar
    Viktor

    Posts : 5669
    Points : 6312
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 37
    Location : Croatia

    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  Viktor on Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:09 pm

    TR1 wrote:http://www.ausairpower.net/48N6E+9M96E1+E2-Rounds-1S.jpg

    Compare the big missile to the 9m96. There has been zero indication at all that the big missile is carried on 20380 or 22250.
    The 20380 has 12 missiles, this isnt a mystery, all Russian sources point to this. 22350 has identical cells, just more of them.
    Seems pretty clear to me.

    The quadpacking would be possible if the cells were designed for 46N6 from the start. But, they were not.

    Perhaps is true but its not logical cozz in that case you would have lots of empty space in between the missile and the launcher and 48N6 is no lengthier missile than Onix/Brahmos meaning if UKSK can be placed there so can smaller in length 48N6 and so can 48N6.

    About news titles and 12 missiles for 20380, 9M96 is not ready jet and there is no point of mentioned it in articles for that reason in comparison with all other of the S-300/400 series.

    If UKSK is meant to carry all option like 3M-54/3M-14/91R/Brahmos/Onix/Kh-101/102 and can be placed in cruisers, future destroyers, frigates, corvetes and even small 21631 than and unification is the word than I have no doubt Redut is meant for more than just 9M96 and in that case 4x9M96 per launcher is reality and dont care what ria news or others write.

    Besides all news and producer itself of S-400 missile system althrow in production already says about 48N6 missile meaning one battery consist of TELx4
    missiles not even mentioning 9M96 witch is part of it.
    avatar
    TR1

    Posts : 5680
    Points : 5708
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  TR1 on Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:34 pm

    http://balancer.ru/forum/punbb/attachment.php?item=263664&download=2

    New photo of Gorshkov!
    Handsome ship so far, the mast isn't hideous like those European AESA boats.
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16741
    Points : 17349
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  GarryB on Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:07 pm

    Nice big Phased Array radar antennas make it look modern and powerful...
    avatar
    George1

    Posts : 10661
    Points : 11140
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  George1 on Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:37 pm

    Frigate Admiral Gorshkov Starts Trials in November

    Project 22350 frigate Admiral Gorshkov, the first Russian naval ship made of carbon composite will start sea trials in the Barents Sea no later than in Nov 2012, reports Izvestiya referring to a source in Russian Navy Main HQ.

    The ship will join Northern Fleet (NF) 14-th Antisubmarine Ship Brigade. Admiral Gorshkov is built under stealth technology; deck erection is made of composite materials absorbing or partially conducting radio waves which ensures "invisibility" to enemy radars.

    "Since 1987, it is the first large-size ship fully designed and built by Russian manufacturers including Severnaya Verf shipyard in St. Petersburg. Project 22350 stealth frigates will shift large ASW ships known in NATO as Udaloy class", said the Russian Navy's staff officer.

    Recall that the Navy command earlier declared frigate Admiral Gorshkov would be commissioned in 2012. The ship's delivery to Russian Navy was once postponed in 2011.

    Frigate Admiral Flota Sovetskogo Soyuza Gorshkov was laid down at Severnaya Verf shipyard in 2006 and put afloat on Nov 29, 2010 in St. Petersburg.

    Project 22350 frigates are designed for warfare in littoral and sea zones. Displacement is about 4,500 tons; length overall is 130 meters; beam overall is 16 meters; cruising range is over 4,000 miles; navigability is unlimited. Frigate of this class accommodates one ship-borne helicopter.

    The ship was named after outstanding military leader and naval art ideologist Admiral Sergei G. Gorshkov who led foundation of Soviet ocean-going nuclear missile fleet. It was he who headed Soviet Navy when over 1,000 warships became the key foreign policy tool.

    http://rusnavy.com/news/navy/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=16105

    Austin

    Posts : 6386
    Points : 6787
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  Austin on Tue Oct 09, 2012 5:46 am

    That must be Carbon Fibre Re-enforced Plastic for the Hull and Carbon Composite for superstructure.

    Pretty common material these days which are used on ships.

    But I think the hull will be all Steel and superstructure will use extensive composite.

    CFRP is mostly used for ASW mine hunters.
    avatar
    TR1

    Posts : 5680
    Points : 5708
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  TR1 on Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:41 am

    AFAIK the 22350 uses a more conventional superstructure, unlike 20380 which has the composite superstructure.
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16741
    Points : 17349
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  GarryB on Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:47 am

    I am more surprised it will start testing next month!

    A little disappointed they didn't mention nano technology too.... Twisted Evil Razz


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    Austin

    Posts : 6386
    Points : 6787
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  Austin on Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:58 am

    Composite superstructure is something they should be using if they are not , if 20380 can use it see no reason why the more advanced 20350 cant.

    To me the suerstructure looks composites but lets see.

    So they mentioned 36 cruise missile , 16 Oniks and 16 Calbir
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16741
    Points : 17349
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  GarryB on Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:18 am

    So they mentioned 36 cruise missile , 16 Oniks and 16 Calbir

    32?

    They will not be restricted, the launcher will be the UKSK launcher which can take Oniks or Calibre or Klub in any combination.

    The anti sub torpedo on a rocket booster Klub, supersonic and subsonic anti ship Klub, subsonic land attack Klub/Calibre, Oniks/Yakhont/Brahmos.

    It could carry 4 anti sub missiles (40km range), 6 land attack Calibre missiles(2,500km range), 10 supersonic anti ship Klub/Calibre, and 12 Oniks/Yakhont/Brahmos supersonic anti ship missiles.

    In fact the combination can be decided when the tubes are being loaded.

    32 missiles means 4 UKSK launch bins.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    runaway

    Posts : 348
    Points : 369
    Join date : 2010-11-12
    Location : Sweden

    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  runaway on Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:54 pm

    "Project 22350 stealth frigates will shift large ASW ships known in NATO as Udaloy class"

    And i thought it was critical to replace sovremenny destroyers, and that Udaloy ones are performing well, despite the age?
    Also, isnt 22350 supposed to replace both types, but it would make more sense starting shifting out sovremenny´s.




    avatar
    George1

    Posts : 10661
    Points : 11140
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  George1 on Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:27 pm

    runaway wrote:"Project 22350 stealth frigates will shift large ASW ships known in NATO as Udaloy class"

    And i thought it was critical to replace sovremenny destroyers, and that Udaloy ones are performing well, despite the age?
    Also, isnt 22350 supposed to replace both types, but it would make more sense starting shifting out sovremenny´s.


    Project 22350 will replace both udaloy and sovremenny class destroyers. Udaloy has 8 (2 x 4) SS-N-14 Silex anti-submarine missiles and sovremenny 8 (2× 4 Moskit SSM P-270) anti-ship missiles.

    Their SAMs are 64 SR (8 x 8 SA-N-9 Gauntlet) for Udaly and 48 MR (2× 24 Shtil/SA-N-12 Grizzly) for sovremney.

    Both of them have 8 ASW missiles, 8 AShM missiles and 48 medium range and 64 short range SAMs. Count the missiles that 22350 carries
    avatar
    TR1

    Posts : 5680
    Points : 5708
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  TR1 on Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:18 pm

    Austin wrote:Composite superstructure is something they should be using if they are not , if 20380 can use it see no reason why the more advanced 20350 cant.

    To me the suerstructure looks composites but lets see.

    So they mentioned 36 cruise missile , 16 Oniks and 16 Calbir

    The 20380 has a whole separate structure shipped from a different builder; 22350 has nothing like that.

    Most large warships don't use all composite structures, its still not the most proven of technologies.

    Good thing they are not using it on 22350, RuNavy needs ships not potentially troublesome ships.
    avatar
    TR1

    Posts : 5680
    Points : 5708
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  TR1 on Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:16 pm

    http://www.flotprom.ru/news/?ELEMENT_ID=124569

    Gorshkov will not be going out for trials in November.

    Izvestia and its sources are wrong, yet again.
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16741
    Points : 17349
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  GarryB on Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:21 am

    And i thought it was critical to replace sovremenny destroyers, and that Udaloy ones are performing well, despite the age?
    Also, isnt 22350 supposed to replace both types, but it would make more sense starting shifting out sovremenny´s.

    The Sovremmenys have had problems with their machinery, but a few were sold to China.

    The Udaloys are very good vessels and I suspect there will be a few ships that urgently need to be retired and a few that can stay on for a few years yet, but overall it is the purpose of the 22350 to replace all the old vessels.

    Both of them have 8 ASW missiles, 8 AShM missiles and 48 medium range and 64 short range SAMs. Count the missiles that 22350 carries

    I am sure Runaway is aware that these new vessels will replace all the old destroyers, I think he is just questioning why the Udaloy class was mentioned for replacement when the Sovremmeny class ships are reportedly not the best in terms of propulsion.

    Izvestia and its sources are wrong, yet again.

    Talk about making news.... how disappointing. Mad



    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    medo

    Posts : 3231
    Points : 3317
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  medo on Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:46 pm

    Izvestia and its sources are wrong, yet again.

    It seems it is a new standard for Izvestia.
    avatar
    George1

    Posts : 10661
    Points : 11140
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  George1 on Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:47 pm

    Disinformation: Frigate Admiral Gorshkov Won't Start Trials in November

    Project 22350 frigate Admiral Gorshkov will not take the Barents Sea for trials late in November. The source in Russian Navy Main HQ that Izvestiya newspaper recently referred to had provided untrustworthy information. Moreover, exterior deck erection does not consist of composite materials, it is only covered with radar absorbent coating, an official of United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC) told Central Navy Portal.

    "Reporters of Izvestiya and their insider in the Navy are running before the hounds", the USC executive told Central Navy Portal.

    "Indeed, the frigate is being actively fitted-out, but she won't be ready for sea trials by the end of November, especially in the Barents Sea. At first, the ship must be tested in the Gulf of Finland, at construction site. Sure, dockside trials may start in November, but the ship will take sea for the first time not earlier than in 2013", added the interviewee.

    Vladimir I. Spiridopulo, Director General of Severnoye Design Bureau which is developer of Project 22350 frigates, did say that the lead ship would begin trials this autumn meaning the dockside ones.

    The interviewee added that the newspaper most likely had confused the frigate with Stereguschiy-class corvettes being built at Severnaya Verf shipyard. Deck erection of those frigates is really made of laminated composite materials but not just carbon plastic. The frigate's steel tophamper is specially designed to reduce radar signature and coated with radar absorbent materials. There are some other 'howlers' in that article published by Izvestiya; for one, the author mentioned Polimer-Redut system instead of Poliment.

    "In all, informativity and credibility of that newspaper article leave much to be desired", concluded the interviewee of Central Navy Portal.

    http://rusnavy.com/news/navy/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=16125
    avatar
    KomissarBojanchev

    Posts : 1206
    Points : 1363
    Join date : 2012-08-05
    Age : 20
    Location : Varna, Bulgaria

    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:55 pm

    Delays, delays, and more delays. The russian military might just be best in the world in f*****g up and delaying military projects.
    avatar
    TR1

    Posts : 5680
    Points : 5708
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  TR1 on Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:23 pm

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:Delays, delays, and more delays. The russian military might just be best in the world in f*****g up and delaying military projects.

    Welcome to any major military program around the world Very Happy

    Anyways anyone whos been following the program could tell you the 22350 was not going on trials in November. Redut-Poliment is still not fitted out, and neither is the gun.
    Subsystem producers were starved of money for years, a sudden influx can't solve the problem immediately.
    avatar
    TR1

    Posts : 5680
    Points : 5708
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  TR1 on Sun Nov 11, 2012 7:17 am

    avatar
    flamming_python

    Posts : 3261
    Points : 3367
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  flamming_python on Sun Nov 11, 2012 2:54 pm

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:Delays, delays, and more delays. The russian military might just be best in the world in f*****g up and delaying military projects.

    Nigga plz, the Russian military-industrial complex is actually still among the better ones, despite the troubles its still going through and the MoD running out of patience with it.

    Pick any of the absolutely atrociously bloated projects by the US and EU industries over the last couple of decades, particularly in the field of aerospace; Russia has nothing comparable. In terms of continous delays and not meeting specifications - I believe Britain takes the lead on this one. Ask the Indians about the Arjun project - again, Russia has and never had anything comparable to Fails of that magnitutude.
    avatar
    George1

    Posts : 10661
    Points : 11140
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  George1 on Sun Nov 11, 2012 3:57 pm

    even the 4 mistrals will be delivered sooner than the 4 first stereguschy corvettes
    avatar
    TR1

    Posts : 5680
    Points : 5708
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  TR1 on Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:22 pm

    George1 wrote:even the 4 mistrals will be delivered sooner than the 4 first stereguschy corvettes

    Unlikely to say the least.

    Or do you mean in total construction time?
    Well, 20380 had no funding for half of construction time, so no surprise there.

    Sponsored content

    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Fri Nov 24, 2017 4:01 pm