More:
http://tass.com/defense/974672
littlerabbit wrote:What's up with Gorshkov?! They said it will be commissioned in mid December...are there any news?
PapaDragon wrote:littlerabbit wrote:What's up with Gorshkov?! They said it will be commissioned in mid December...are there any news?
Forget commissioning, from what they said the other day they don't even plan to order any additional ones before at least 2021.
littlerabbit wrote:PapaDragon wrote:littlerabbit wrote:What's up with Gorshkov?! They said it will be commissioned in mid December...are there any news?
Forget commissioning, from what they said the other day they don't even plan to order any additional ones before at least 2021.
Jesus... I don't get Russian Navy, at all.
No news I've seen since announcement of the final final final final tests in Nov.What's up with Gorshkov?! They said it will be commissioned in mid December...are there any news?dunno
KiloGolf wrote:They seem to have a glorified coast guard mentality for anything on the surface with a dash of few cruise missile VLS cells here and there.
That's it till 2025 for RuN.
GunshipDemocracy wrote:KiloGolf wrote:They seem to have a glorified coast guard mentality for anything on the surface with a dash of few cruise missile VLS cells here and there.
That's it till 2025 for RuN.
and what mentality they should have taking into account budget/intl situation/timing? I look forward to hearing your say.
What other ships are being built within acceptable timeframes in the shitshow called severnaya verf?Strawman Maker wrote:block other ships from being built while you wait...
KomissarBojanchev wrote:GunshipDemocracy wrote:KiloGolf wrote:They seem to have a glorified coast guard mentality for anything on the surface with a dash of few cruise missile VLS cells here and there.
That's it till 2025 for RuN.
and what mentality they should have taking into account budget/intl situation/timing? I look forward to hearing your say.
The mentality to commission 2-3 ships of the class by 2021.
KomissarBojanchev wrote:What other ships are being built within acceptable timeframes in the shitshow called severnaya verf?Strawman Maker wrote:block other ships from being built while you wait...
There aren't even any more ships to be blocked because the naval ministry doesn't know WTF it wants.
There are already turbines for the Gorshkov class.didn't you forget about budget and turbines factor right?
Then the MoF shouldn't be nosing around and instead almost completely stick to the 2020 armament program requirements.Oh I am sure that MoD knows what it wants but there is also MoF which cuts most of proposals and intl situation changing. But I am interested in definition of "an acceptable time frame" ? and acceptable means what? how many months per which class? are you going to develop from scratch all modules of like in Spain assemble from ready foreign parts?
Would be my primary effort too.In all honesty Russia should prioritise construction of ships with shallow enough draft to be able to transit Unified Deep Water System because that would help unify Russian Northern, Baltic, Black and Caspian fleet in to one force deployable in any of those sectors at need.
GarryB wrote:
At the end of the day all the Russian Navy needs is one articulated river barge a few kilometres long that can carry UKSK launch tubes for 500 Kalibrs and perhaps a similar number of Redut launch tubes... plus come corvette sized vessels to maintain their fisheries areas and clamp down on smugglers.
No, you'd want more like 20-30 normal sized barges with 16-32 UKSK each.At the end of the day all the Russian Navy needs is one articulated river barge a few kilometres long that can carry UKSK launch tubes for 500 Kalibrs and perhaps a similar number of Redut launch tubes
hoom wrote:Would be my primary effort too.In all honesty Russia should prioritise construction of ships with shallow enough draft to be able to transit Unified Deep Water System because that would help unify Russian Northern, Baltic, Black and Caspian fleet in to one force deployable in any of those sectors at need.
But above that there is a clear need for a bunch of Frigates & if/when 22350 actually works properly it'll be a very good Frigate.
Rather than a 'coast-guard mentality' as the reason that there aren't more 22350s being built, its incredibly obvious that the program has suffered extreme concurrency hell, compounded by the Ukraine/Engine issue, absolutely nothing to do with lack of intent.
Peŕrier wrote:
About propulsion, lack of russian made gas turbines has been a serious drawback, but some serious funds has to be invested in related technologies, starting with variable pitch propeller, going through integrated electric propulsion and a new generation of modern, competitive and scalable medium speed diesel engines.
Integrated electric propulsion is a particularly promising solution, it permits to get rid with reduction gears, the most critical component of any propulsion system, and makes engines' running regimes partially independent from ship's own speeds and demand for acceleration or deceleration, enabling thermal engines to be far less stressed and to run at most efficient regimes. Moreover, it permits to have a fully distributed power generation thermal engines (and gas turbines as well) being turned of electrical generation sets only, without any mechanical link with propellers and their transmission axis.
By the way, such an approach would have made less troublesome the Kolomna diesel engines used by Pr. 20380, that by statements made public suffer quick changes of speed and loose efficiency quite remarkably when not running on optimal revs speeds.
George1 wrote:Recent images of the 2nd Pr.22350 #frigate Admiral Kasatonov with Kamov-27PL variant on its helo deck at Severnaya Verf Shipyard. (Can someone ID this "bortless" Ka-27PL variant?)
............
Singular_Transform wrote:
That works well on railways, over the rail locomotive needs huge ballast weight anyway.
But on the ship the weight of gear set waaay lower than the weight of generator+motor, even if the stator is superconductor.
The US military actually invested a lot of money into superconductor winded generator/motor sets, to permit the operation of them on ships.
I think that the generator/motor sets will pay themselves only if the ships can start to use laser/rail guns , and if these systems weight will be lower than the same conventional system with ammunition/armoured protection.
But considering that a rail gun won't be capable to do the same thing like a missile I have strong doubts about it.
Peŕrier wrote:
You have only electric motors, axis and screw arranged in a row. Thermal engines can be accomodated wherever reputed the best option. Power transmission from thermal engines to electric ones is through electric lines, way cheaper than transmission axis, and could be doubled or tripled the same way flight-by-wire lines are on aircrafts, making them more damage resistant. Electric motors have enormous torque, without any mechanical challenges connected neither with net power nor with torque generated, and they act both as motors, as brakes and as electrical power generator, depending on what is required from them in that specific second.
Using a batteries buffer, as in SSK, between thermal engines and electric ones, any quick change in power requirement (acceleration) could be attained draining at start part of the additional electric power required from the batteries' buffer, giving thermal engines time to gain revs speed and power output on a more gentle way, in turn extending their service life, reducing the chances of faults and generally consuming less fuel.
In an ASW vessel, it could even be possible to switch for a while to all electric propulsion, using batteries only or just a small and highly sound insulated generation set, to perform very discreet slow speed chases of enemy's sub.
Actually electric integrated propulsion opens a whole new world of opportunities.
The citation of trains' engines is really good, just it works on the other way: Kolomna is specialized mainly on trains' diesel engines, requiring very slow accelerations only, and the power sets developed for Pr. 20380 seem to be not up the task, because they miss the flexible running characteristic of naval medium speed diesel engines.
Making them work as electric power generators would have give them a far better reputation.
Tingsay wrote:Well it looks like Gorshkov won't be commissioned this year.
|
|