Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Share

    Austin

    Posts : 6386
    Points : 6787
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  Austin on Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:10 am

    New Pics of 22350M Frigate



    Firebird

    Posts : 955
    Points : 987
    Join date : 2011-10-14

    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  Firebird on Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:50 am

    http://mil.today/2017/Weapons59/

    So its 8000 tons.

    I still wonder if the stealth profiling could be refined a little?
    Here's an article on the RuNavy producing stealth guns for ships.
    Maybe increased stealth is now being given more priority?

    https://www.rbth.com/defence/2017/07/03/will-russias-navy-destroyers-soon-be-boosted-with-jet-stealth-tech_794755

    I wonder how far behind the Lider class will be?
    Does anyone know if Lider would be built at different shipyards?
    avatar
    Benya

    Posts : 528
    Points : 532
    Join date : 2016-06-05
    Location : Budapest, Hungary

    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  Benya on Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:47 pm

    Russian Shipyard to build 4th Project 22350 Gorshkov-class Frigate Hull by January 2018

    The Northern Shipyard in St. Petersburg in northwest Russia is planning to build the hull of the fourth Project 22350 frigate Admiral Isakov by January 2018, the shipyard’s press office said. The Northern Shipyard is a subsidiary of Russia’s United Shipbuilding Corporation.


    Project 22350 Admiral Gorshkov frigate

    "Blocks No. 3-4 and No. 2 of the frigate Admiral Isakov have been transferred to the second site of the slipway. Shipbuilders are currently planing the units for their further attachment and welding. The blocks are expected to be attached one another before late July and assembled and welded in August. We are expected to build the ship’s hull by January 2018," the press office said.

    The frigate Admiral Isakov was laid down in November 2013. This is the fourth Project 22350 ship. The frigate was named after Admiral Ivan Isakov who had been Soviet Navy Chief of Staff during the Great Patriotic War and had made a significant contribution to the development of the country’s Navy.


    First ship of the class Project 22350 Admiral Gorshkov frigate during sea trials

    The Project 22350 frigate is designed to fight surface ships and submarines on the high seas and repel air attacks both independently and within a formation.

    The Project 22350 frigate is flush-decked and has three-island superstructures, a tower mast and a steel tube. The ship has a lower radar signature, which makes it virtually invisible for the enemy’s radars.

    The Project 22350 frigate has a displacement of 4,550 tons and a length of 135 meters. The capacity of its diesel-gas-turbine power plant is 65,000 hp.

    The ship is armed with the advanced A-192 130mm gun and anti-ship, antisubmarine and air defense missile systems, including the Kalibr (NATO reporting name: SS-N-27 Sizzler) and Poliment-Redut. The ship is capable of carrying the Kamov Ka-27 (Helix) helicopter and its versions.

    Source: Arrow http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/news/defence-news/2017/july-2017-navy-naval-forces-defense-industry-technology-maritime-security-global-news/5396-russian-shipyard-to-build-4th-project-22350-gorshkov-class-frigate-hull-by-january-2018.html
    avatar
    KomissarBojanchev

    Posts : 1206
    Points : 1363
    Join date : 2012-08-05
    Age : 20
    Location : Varna, Bulgaria

    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:39 pm

    Since the super gorshkov is a new hull it will take much longer to build than subsequent regular gorshkovs. It will be a similat situation to the 855s and 855Ms ( build time around 5 years longer)Since its also bigger than the original you can add a few more years of build time. Together with unexpected problems during building because its a new ship, delays during trials, also as garryB likes to say "because its the first of its class", I prefict build time of 15+years and 10+ years of trials for the super gorshkov and assuming its launched in 2025-2027, we can expect it to be in service by 2052 at the earliest.
    avatar
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 5611
    Points : 5715
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:58 pm

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:Since the super gorshkov is a new hull it will take much longer to build than subsequent regular gorshkovs. It will be a similat situation to the  855s and 855Ms ( build time around 5 years longer)Since its also bigger than the original you can add a few more years of build time. Together with unexpected problems during building because its a new ship, delays during trials, also as garryB likes to say "because its the first of its class", I prefict  build time of 15+years and 10+ years of trials for the super gorshkov and assuming its launched in 2025-2027, we can expect it to be in service by 2052 at the earliest.

    Depends what they do with it and so far we don't have a clue.

    Don't take that Naval Expo scale model as some gospel. Keep in mind that it's displayed by very same company that gave us nonsense like ''Shtorm'' Super Superior Supercarrier and that idiotic anime-style nuclear destroyer.  

    It's important to separate that type of horseshit from reality.

    If they don't go full retard and instead just take standard Gorshkov and simply add another segment or two so they could fit extra VLS cells and additional fuel tanks then it will not affect build time in any unpredictable way.
    avatar
    Isos

    Posts : 927
    Points : 925
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  Isos on Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:05 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    KomissarBojanchev wrote:Since the super gorshkov is a new hull it will take much longer to build than subsequent regular gorshkovs. It will be a similat situation to the  855s and 855Ms ( build time around 5 years longer)Since its also bigger than the original you can add a few more years of build time. Together with unexpected problems during building because its a new ship, delays during trials, also as garryB likes to say "because its the first of its class", I prefict  build time of 15+years and 10+ years of trials for the super gorshkov and assuming its launched in 2025-2027, we can expect it to be in service by 2052 at the earliest.

    Depends what they do with it and so far we don't have a clue.

    Don't take that Naval Expo scale model as some gospel. Keep in mind that it's displayed by very same company that gave us nonsense like ''Shtorm'' Super Superior Supercarrier and that idiotic anime-style nuclear destroyer.  

    It's important to separate that type of horseshit from reality.

    If they don't go full retard and instead just take standard Gorshkov and simply add another segment or two so they could fit extra VLS cells and additional fuel tanks then it will not affect build time in any unpredictable way.

    Unless you have some official statement, they didn't start work of dev for any of these ships. Like Papadragon said it's just artwork of the companies.
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16741
    Points : 17349
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  GarryB on Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:03 am

    The whole purpose design the modular multipurpose design of the new Russian ships is so they can be rapidly built in all shipyards.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    Rowdyhorse4

    Posts : 62
    Points : 72
    Join date : 2017-04-25
    Location : Indonesia

    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  Rowdyhorse4 on Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:25 am

    https://www.facebook.com/289334207795128/videos/1538389506222919/

    Supposed Video of a Ka-52K landing on the admiral Gorshkov....
    avatar
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 5611
    Points : 5715
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Aug 02, 2017 2:16 pm

    GarryB wrote:The whole purpose design the modular multipurpose design of the new Russian ships is so they can be rapidly built in all shipyards.

    They may want to start taking advantage of that feature
    avatar
    hoom

    Posts : 630
    Points : 628
    Join date : 2016-05-06

    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  hoom on Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:26 pm

    Some nice pics via Balancer forums



    avatar
    SeigSoloyvov

    Posts : 666
    Points : 670
    Join date : 2016-04-08

    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:27 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    GarryB wrote:The whole purpose design the modular multipurpose design of the new Russian ships is so they can be rapidly built in all shipyards.

    They may want to start taking advantage of that feature

    They need to start taking advantage of that feature.
    avatar
    Isos

    Posts : 927
    Points : 925
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  Isos on Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:08 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    GarryB wrote:The whole purpose design the modular multipurpose design of the new Russian ships is so they can be rapidly built in all shipyards.

    They may want to start taking advantage of that feature

    Maybe they are waiting the super-gorshkov because the gorshkov is not what they want anymore. The modular design is the same for both of them so they have conclude that spending a litle more time for designing a bigger ship is better than buying lot of gorshkovs. They still have Grigorovitch, Steregouchy, Karakurt to build so who cares.

    But if we see the Super Gorshkov we can say Bye-Bye to the 21956 destroyer which too bad because it has the space for S-400F while the Redut cells can't have the big missiles and is just the naval S-350.

    It's all about economy and giving work to the shipyards. They don't really care about a war. Who would attack them ?
    avatar
    SeigSoloyvov

    Posts : 666
    Points : 670
    Join date : 2016-04-08

    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:34 pm

    Isos wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    GarryB wrote:The whole purpose design the modular multipurpose design of the new Russian ships is so they can be rapidly built in all shipyards.

    They may want to start taking advantage of that feature

    Maybe they are waiting the super-gorshkov because the gorshkov is not what they want anymore. The modular design is the same for both of them so they have conclude that spending a litle more time for designing a bigger ship is better than buying lot of gorshkovs. They still have Grigorovitch, Steregouchy, Karakurt to build so who cares.

    But if we see the Super Gorshkov we can say Bye-Bye to the 21956 destroyer which too bad because it has the space for S-400F while the Redut cells can't have the big missiles and is just the naval S-350.

    It's all about economy and giving work to the shipyards. They don't really care about a war. Who would attack them ?

    Project 21956 was never going to be built for yes you are right.

    The leader aka project 23560 is going to be built regardless if they build super Gorvs or not.
    avatar
    Isos

    Posts : 927
    Points : 925
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  Isos on Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:17 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:

    Project 21956 was never going to be built for yes you are right.

    The leader aka project 23560 is going to be built regardless if they build super Gorvs or not.

    I know. 21956 was designed with S-300F so it is a pretty old design but it is offered to export (at least on website of rosoboronexport).

    I've always though that RuN had made the mistake of not integrating S-300 on more ships. They keep it just for big ships while China succesfully put it on frigates. That's why I like the project 21956. Udaloy for exemple are 164m long and could have been designed with it.

    Lider is another level, can't be compared to a frigate of 135m.
    avatar
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 5611
    Points : 5715
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Aug 03, 2017 1:07 am

    Lider destroyer is slated for 2025, it will not be affected by frigate construction

    It leaves 7 years at least so they really need to get off their asses and start building frigates in the meantime

    If Gorshkov class is giving them so much headache then they should just give light upgrade to Grigorevich frigates and build them instead (drop torpedoes and anti-sub rockets​, upgrade sonar and sensors, add another UKSK and streamline the upper section)

    They need fresh ships ASAP
    avatar
    KomissarBojanchev

    Posts : 1206
    Points : 1363
    Join date : 2012-08-05
    Age : 20
    Location : Varna, Bulgaria

    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Thu Aug 03, 2017 12:40 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:Lider destroyer is slated for 2025, it will not be affected by frigate construction

    It leaves 7 years at least so they really need to get off their asses and start building frigates in the meantime

    If Gorshkov class is giving them so much headache then they should just give light upgrade to Grigorevich frigates and build them instead (drop torpedoes and anti-sub rockets​, upgrade sonar and sensors, add another UKSK and streamline the upper section)

    They need fresh ships ASAP

    Completely agree. The Russian navy doesn't have the privilege of "wanting" and "not wanting". They need to start building what they can build now instead of planning new upgrades and ships that keep never getting build because they changed their minds in the last minute about them. There are still so much udaloys, slavas and sovremennys to replace, that it doesn't matter if it will be gorshkov or super gorshkov, they simply need to replace these aging ships.
    avatar
    hoom

    Posts : 630
    Points : 628
    Join date : 2016-05-06

    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  hoom on Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:06 am


    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16741
    Points : 17349
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  GarryB on Fri Sep 01, 2017 7:37 am

    the point is that the modular design will speed up production and development... the new ships will be multirole, but bigger ships will get different radars and sensors from smaller ships, but will have the same weapons in greater numbers.

    They will also have different propulsion arrangements.

    The point is that the software to make everything work can be standardised... the difference will be that the larger vessels will be able to scan greater distances with their larger sensors, but with the C4IR systems even a tiny vessel can have target data for targets well outside its sensor range... like a corvette targeting a ground target 2,000km away as we have seen.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16741
    Points : 17349
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  GarryB on Sat Sep 16, 2017 11:07 am

    The link posted above has been deleted for the bullshit that it is.... just to quote from the third paragraph:

    The Russian navy is a mess, and it will probably become more of a mess in the future.

    An article that originally appeared in the National Interest.

    This article does not belong in this thread, which is about the Gorshkov.

    It does not belong on this forum.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16741
    Points : 17349
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  GarryB on Sat Sep 16, 2017 11:09 am

    There are still so much udaloys, slavas and sovremennys to replace, that it doesn't matter if it will be gorshkov or super gorshkov, they simply need to replace these aging ships.



    The ships they will be building now will be in service for the next 3-4 decades so it makes sense to get them right.

    Pleasing fanbois on websites probably does not enter their criteria for what they should or should not do.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    George1

    Posts : 10666
    Points : 11145
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  George1 on Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:47 am



    _________________
    "There's no smoke without fire.", Georgy Zhukov

    avatar
    George1

    Posts : 10666
    Points : 11145
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  George1 on Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:52 pm

    The Northern Fleet began the final phase of testing the frigate Admiral Gorshkov russia

    https://nortwolf-sam.livejournal.com/2050501.html


    _________________
    "There's no smoke without fire.", Georgy Zhukov

    avatar
    KiloGolf

    Posts : 2130
    Points : 2146
    Join date : 2015-09-01
    Location : Macedonia, Hellas

    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  KiloGolf on Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:14 pm

    George1 wrote:The Northern Fleet began the final phase of testing the frigate Admiral Gorshkov  russia

    https://nortwolf-sam.livejournal.com/2050501.html

    lol1 lol1 lol1

    It's pretty much 2018 already. Nice they get one frigate geek
    avatar
    Big_Gazza

    Posts : 838
    Points : 856
    Join date : 2014-08-25
    Location : Melbourne, Australia

    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  Big_Gazza on Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:09 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:
    George1 wrote:The Northern Fleet began the final phase of testing the frigate Admiral Gorshkov  russia

    https://nortwolf-sam.livejournal.com/2050501.html

    lol1 lol1 lol1

    It's pretty much 2018 already. Nice they get one frigate geek

    FFS, yes the delays are a disappointment, but you know full well that this is a completely new design with new sensors & weapons & battle management systems, so why piss and moan about it?  Who gives a flying fuck?  The ship will be accepted when all bugs are worked out,  system integration is in full compliance to spec, and the Navy is FULLY satisfied.   This is a warship, not a shitcan F-35.  Engine supply issues mean they have plenty of time to get her correct and not repeat the installation issues with Kasatanov (eg dodgy radar cabling), so they are doing it right.  Shake her until she fails, then fix her and do it again.  Rinse & repeat until she's sorted, then apply teh lessons to her sisters.

    That's the way to build a warship.  Not by pushing them out to satisfy a bureaucrats schedule and then having to go back and fix the problems on a number of units once they are eventually solved.  Just because the USAF/USN is going to have to rebuild a load of pre-serial F-35s doesn't mean the RuN wants to follow the same 'exceptional" path with the 22350s.
    avatar
    KiloGolf

    Posts : 2130
    Points : 2146
    Join date : 2015-09-01
    Location : Macedonia, Hellas

    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  KiloGolf on Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:30 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:FFS, yes the delays are a disappointment, but you know full well that this is a completely new design with new sensors & weapons & battle management systems, so why piss and moan about it?  Who gives a flying fuck?  The ship will be accepted when all bugs are worked out,  system integration is in full compliance to spec, and the Navy is FULLY satisfied.   This is a warship, not a shitcan F-35.  Engine supply issues mean they have plenty of time to get her correct and not repeat the installation issues with Kasatanov (eg dodgy radar cabling), so they are doing it right.  Shake her until she fails, then fix her and do it again.  Rinse & repeat until she's sorted, then apply teh lessons to her sisters.

    That's the way to build a warship.  Not by pushing them out to satisfy a bureaucrats schedule and then having to go back and fix the problems on a number of units once they are eventually solved.  Just because the USAF/USN is going to have to rebuild a load of pre-serial F-35s doesn't mean the RuN wants to follow the same 'exceptional" path with the 22350s.

    Bureaucracy and bad management caused these delays. Same as in the F-35 but on a much smaller scale.
    In both cases the platforms are super capable and promising. In practice, they're very very late and expensive.

    1 frigate --> 11 years to induct.
    <insert slow clapping>

    Sponsored content

    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Sat Nov 25, 2017 3:13 am