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    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

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    GarryB
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    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  GarryB on Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:18 am

    So they mentioned 36 cruise missile , 16 Oniks and 16 Calbir

    32?

    They will not be restricted, the launcher will be the UKSK launcher which can take Oniks or Calibre or Klub in any combination.

    The anti sub torpedo on a rocket booster Klub, supersonic and subsonic anti ship Klub, subsonic land attack Klub/Calibre, Oniks/Yakhont/Brahmos.

    It could carry 4 anti sub missiles (40km range), 6 land attack Calibre missiles(2,500km range), 10 supersonic anti ship Klub/Calibre, and 12 Oniks/Yakhont/Brahmos supersonic anti ship missiles.

    In fact the combination can be decided when the tubes are being loaded.

    32 missiles means 4 UKSK launch bins.


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    runaway
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    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  runaway on Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:54 pm

    "Project 22350 stealth frigates will shift large ASW ships known in NATO as Udaloy class"

    And i thought it was critical to replace sovremenny destroyers, and that Udaloy ones are performing well, despite the age?
    Also, isnt 22350 supposed to replace both types, but it would make more sense starting shifting out sovremenny´s.





    George1
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    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  George1 on Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:27 pm

    runaway wrote:"Project 22350 stealth frigates will shift large ASW ships known in NATO as Udaloy class"

    And i thought it was critical to replace sovremenny destroyers, and that Udaloy ones are performing well, despite the age?
    Also, isnt 22350 supposed to replace both types, but it would make more sense starting shifting out sovremenny´s.


    Project 22350 will replace both udaloy and sovremenny class destroyers. Udaloy has 8 (2 x 4) SS-N-14 Silex anti-submarine missiles and sovremenny 8 (2× 4 Moskit SSM P-270) anti-ship missiles.

    Their SAMs are 64 SR (8 x 8 SA-N-9 Gauntlet) for Udaly and 48 MR (2× 24 Shtil/SA-N-12 Grizzly) for sovremney.

    Both of them have 8 ASW missiles, 8 AShM missiles and 48 medium range and 64 short range SAMs. Count the missiles that 22350 carries

    TR1
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    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  TR1 on Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:18 pm

    Austin wrote:Composite superstructure is something they should be using if they are not , if 20380 can use it see no reason why the more advanced 20350 cant.

    To me the suerstructure looks composites but lets see.

    So they mentioned 36 cruise missile , 16 Oniks and 16 Calbir

    The 20380 has a whole separate structure shipped from a different builder; 22350 has nothing like that.

    Most large warships don't use all composite structures, its still not the most proven of technologies.

    Good thing they are not using it on 22350, RuNavy needs ships not potentially troublesome ships.

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    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  TR1 on Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:16 pm

    http://www.flotprom.ru/news/?ELEMENT_ID=124569

    Gorshkov will not be going out for trials in November.

    Izvestia and its sources are wrong, yet again.

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    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  GarryB on Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:21 am

    And i thought it was critical to replace sovremenny destroyers, and that Udaloy ones are performing well, despite the age?
    Also, isnt 22350 supposed to replace both types, but it would make more sense starting shifting out sovremenny´s.

    The Sovremmenys have had problems with their machinery, but a few were sold to China.

    The Udaloys are very good vessels and I suspect there will be a few ships that urgently need to be retired and a few that can stay on for a few years yet, but overall it is the purpose of the 22350 to replace all the old vessels.

    Both of them have 8 ASW missiles, 8 AShM missiles and 48 medium range and 64 short range SAMs. Count the missiles that 22350 carries

    I am sure Runaway is aware that these new vessels will replace all the old destroyers, I think he is just questioning why the Udaloy class was mentioned for replacement when the Sovremmeny class ships are reportedly not the best in terms of propulsion.

    Izvestia and its sources are wrong, yet again.

    Talk about making news.... how disappointing. Mad



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    medo
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    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  medo on Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:46 pm

    Izvestia and its sources are wrong, yet again.

    It seems it is a new standard for Izvestia.

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    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  George1 on Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:47 pm

    Disinformation: Frigate Admiral Gorshkov Won't Start Trials in November

    Project 22350 frigate Admiral Gorshkov will not take the Barents Sea for trials late in November. The source in Russian Navy Main HQ that Izvestiya newspaper recently referred to had provided untrustworthy information. Moreover, exterior deck erection does not consist of composite materials, it is only covered with radar absorbent coating, an official of United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC) told Central Navy Portal.

    "Reporters of Izvestiya and their insider in the Navy are running before the hounds", the USC executive told Central Navy Portal.

    "Indeed, the frigate is being actively fitted-out, but she won't be ready for sea trials by the end of November, especially in the Barents Sea. At first, the ship must be tested in the Gulf of Finland, at construction site. Sure, dockside trials may start in November, but the ship will take sea for the first time not earlier than in 2013", added the interviewee.

    Vladimir I. Spiridopulo, Director General of Severnoye Design Bureau which is developer of Project 22350 frigates, did say that the lead ship would begin trials this autumn meaning the dockside ones.

    The interviewee added that the newspaper most likely had confused the frigate with Stereguschiy-class corvettes being built at Severnaya Verf shipyard. Deck erection of those frigates is really made of laminated composite materials but not just carbon plastic. The frigate's steel tophamper is specially designed to reduce radar signature and coated with radar absorbent materials. There are some other 'howlers' in that article published by Izvestiya; for one, the author mentioned Polimer-Redut system instead of Poliment.

    "In all, informativity and credibility of that newspaper article leave much to be desired", concluded the interviewee of Central Navy Portal.

    http://rusnavy.com/news/navy/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=16125

    KomissarBojanchev
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    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:55 pm

    Delays, delays, and more delays. The russian military might just be best in the world in f*****g up and delaying military projects.

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    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  George1 on Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:01 pm

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:Delays, delays, and more delays. The russian military might just be best in the world in f*****g up and delaying military projects.

    Yes, see the 22380 project. 2 units in 5-6 years have been delivered.

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    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  TR1 on Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:23 pm

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:Delays, delays, and more delays. The russian military might just be best in the world in f*****g up and delaying military projects.

    Welcome to any major military program around the world Very Happy

    Anyways anyone whos been following the program could tell you the 22350 was not going on trials in November. Redut-Poliment is still not fitted out, and neither is the gun.
    Subsystem producers were starved of money for years, a sudden influx can't solve the problem immediately.

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    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  George1 on Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:44 pm

    project 22350 will be able to accommodate 2 ASW helicopters?

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    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  runaway on Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:21 pm

    George1 wrote:project 22350 will be able to accommodate 2 ASW helicopters?

    No, 1 Ka-27M Helix


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    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  TR1 on Sun Nov 11, 2012 7:17 am

    http://www.balancer.ru/forum/punbb/attachment.php?item=306069&download=2

    Kasatonov.

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    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  flamming_python on Sun Nov 11, 2012 2:54 pm

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:Delays, delays, and more delays. The russian military might just be best in the world in f*****g up and delaying military projects.

    Nigga plz, the Russian military-industrial complex is actually still among the better ones, despite the troubles its still going through and the MoD running out of patience with it.

    Pick any of the absolutely atrociously bloated projects by the US and EU industries over the last couple of decades, particularly in the field of aerospace; Russia has nothing comparable. In terms of continous delays and not meeting specifications - I believe Britain takes the lead on this one. Ask the Indians about the Arjun project - again, Russia has and never had anything comparable to Fails of that magnitutude.

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    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  George1 on Sun Nov 11, 2012 3:57 pm

    even the 4 mistrals will be delivered sooner than the 4 first stereguschy corvettes

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    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  TR1 on Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:22 pm

    George1 wrote:even the 4 mistrals will be delivered sooner than the 4 first stereguschy corvettes

    Unlikely to say the least.

    Or do you mean in total construction time?
    Well, 20380 had no funding for half of construction time, so no surprise there.

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    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  runaway on Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:01 pm

    TR1 wrote:
    George1 wrote:even the 4 mistrals will be delivered sooner than the 4 first stereguschy corvettes

    Unlikely to say the least.

    Or do you mean in total construction time?
    Well, 20380 had no funding for half of construction time, so no surprise there.

    Actually, 3 has already been delivered and they seems to be able to supply 6 by 2015 as planned.

    But this thread is about Gorshkov, and these ships take their time. First one laid down 2006 and still not commisioned. Plans for the Gorshkov and Kasatonov is to be handed over is by 2013-14.

    And since these are new types with new technologies and an industri in progress its ok.
    The Talwar class has a build time of 5 years until commisioning, and its also ok.
    So we can look forward to shortened build time for Gorshkov as the serial building gains momentum, maybe down to 5 then to 3-4 years time.


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    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  TR1 on Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:55 pm

    Ony 2 so far, Boiiky still does not have its gun.

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    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  TR1 on Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:48 pm

    http://www.balancer.ru/forum/punbb/attachment.php?item=306648&download=2

    Oh baby! Gorshkov is getting closer to completion!

    http://www.balancer.ru/forum/punbb/attachment.php?item=306606&download=2

    Kasatonov in construction.

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    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  TheArmenian on Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:30 am

    It looks gorgious. Possibly one of the best looking warships in the world.

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    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  TR1 on Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:47 am

    Agreed. Lines are stately and sleek, while the mast does not look like a cancer like many "integrated" masts these days.

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    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  GarryB on Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:40 am

    Interesting that it seems to have a large rectangular position on the side of the mast for an AESA array... presumably Poliment, but there is no space for a forward facing system. Assuming another array on the opposite side and one facing rear suggests to me that the new radar has a FOV of at least 120 degrees and that they are going to save some money and space and power by having three arrays instead of 4.

    Should be interesting... and I agree she has very nice lines at the moment. Smile

    Edit: except now that I take a closer look I can see the other antenna array above the fire control radar for the front mounted gun systems (which is clearly related to the 5P10) and looking at the rear shot of its sister ship the mast is clearly not triangular and has four sides.

    That is OK too.

    Because the square shape is flattened there should be more overlap at the front and rear, which should be good as a threat should result in the vessel being turned front or rear on to present the smallest target while bringing the threat into view of two main radar arrays plus the top radar rather than just one.


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    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  George1 on Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:36 am

    Source: Russia to Lay Down Next Project 22350 Frigate

    New Project 22350 frigate will be laid down in the nearest time at JSC Severnaya Verf shipyard, a source in Russian defense ministry told Central Navy Portal.

    According to the source, Russian Navy Main HQ submitted a request to defense ministry asking to name the new frigate in honor of Hero of the Soviet Union Admiral Ivan S. Isakov.

    Project 22350 frigate is designed for naval warfare in littoral and ocean zones. Displacement is about 4,500 tons; length overall is over 130 meters; beam overall is over 16 meters; operating range is about 4,000 nautical miles; navigability is unlimited. Each frigate accommodates a deck-based helicopter.

    Keel-laying of the third Project 22350 frigate named Admiral Golovko took place at Severnaya Verf on Feb 1, 2012. Lead ship of the project, Admiral Gorshkov was launched in 2010 and is currently at the final stage of outfitting. The first batch-produced frigate Admiral Kasatonov was laid down at Severnaya Verf in 2009.

    As was earlier said by sources in shipbuilding industry, Russian Navy's demand for frigates in the next 15-20 years is up to 20 ships. New frigates will be based on Project 22350 ships capable to operate both independently and within task groups

    http://rusnavy.com/news/navy/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=16441

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    Re: Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

    Post  George1 on Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:23 pm

    Sea Trials of Frigate Admiral Gorshkov to Start Next Year

    Lead ship of Project 22350, frigate Admiral Gorshkov being built by Severnaya Verf shipyard in St. Petersburg will start state acceptance trials late in 2013, said the yard's director Alexander Ushakov.

    "In this year we plan to finish with cable routing. Crew is going to settle into the ship in March 2013, then dockside trials will begin in order to start shipyard's sea trials in the fourth quarter of 2013", said Ushakov.

    As for him, financing of works on Admiral Gorshkov has been going systematically, in contrast to other frigates, corvettes, and a special-purpose ship built by the shipyard.

    Leningrad Naval Base Commander Capt 1 Rank Oleg Zhuravlev said in March 2012 that the crew formed at Northern Fleet for frigate Admiral Gorshkov had already arrived in Kronshtadt.

    One of the main functions of Leningrad Naval Base is supporting of construction, trials and commission of new ships and submarines built by St. Petersburg shipyards.

    Severnaya Verf is the only manufacturer of Project 22350 frigates, Project 20380/20385 corvettes, and Project 18280 communication ships. At present, the shipyard is executing contracts for 6 frigates, 6 corvettes, and one communication ship.

    http://rusnavy.com/news/navy/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=16490

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