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    VKO S-300, S-400 ORBAT. Composition of units:

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    franco
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    VKO S-300, S-400 ORBAT. Composition of units:

    Post  franco on Sun Jul 05, 2015 2:16 pm

    George1 wrote:Head of anti-aircraft missile forces Air Force Major-General Sergey Babakov said that the S-300PS today already "physically and morally" outdated.

    He still has to live with them until the end of 2020, which was the original plan. But by the end of this year, they should be less then half the total.
    By my count at present there are;

    76 SA.400
    160 SA.300PMU
    244 SA.300PS

    Planned procurement to the end of 2020 was 224 SA.400, 152 SA.350 and 40 SA.500.
    Still leaves 148 SA.400's to come and the SA.350 was to start production this year.

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    Re: VKO S-300, S-400 ORBAT. Composition of units:

    Post  Viktor on Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:12 pm

    franco wrote:

    76 SA.400
    160 SA.300PMU
    244 SA.300PS

    Planned procurement to the end of 2020 was 224 SA.400, 152 SA.350 and 40 SA.500.
    Still leaves 148 SA.400's to come and the SA.350 was to start production this year.

    What are all those numbers? Could you clarify?

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    Re: VKO S-300, S-400 ORBAT. Composition of units:

    Post  franco on Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:27 pm

    Viktor wrote:
    franco wrote:

    76 SA.400
    160 SA.300PMU
    244 SA.300PS

    Planned procurement to the end of 2020 was 224 SA.400, 152 SA.350 and 40 SA.500.
    Still leaves 148 SA.400's to come and the SA.350 was to start production this year.

    What are all those numbers? Could you clarify?

    Number of firing units but not completely sure what you are requesting?

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    Re: VKO S-300, S-400 ORBAT. Composition of units:

    Post  Viktor on Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:58 pm

    franco wrote:Number of firing units but not completely sure what you are requesting?

    Firing units like TEL? or ...

    because if TEL than you have a way to small number and if you are reffering to a firing radar numbers its way too high!?

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    Re: VKO S-300, S-400 ORBAT. Composition of units:

    Post  franco on Sun Jul 05, 2015 5:05 pm

    Viktor wrote:
    franco wrote:Number of firing units but not completely sure what you are requesting?

    Firing units like TEL? or ...

    because if TEL than you have a way to small number and if you are reffering to a firing radar numbers its way too high!?

    Firing unit like a TEL.
    Your figures?

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    Re: VKO S-300, S-400 ORBAT. Composition of units:

    Post  Viktor on Sun Jul 05, 2015 5:14 pm

    franco wrote:Firing unit like a TEL.
    Your figures?

    When counting SAMs, TEL units are not that important. What is important and what counts the most are the numbers of the firing radar sets because that

    number tells you about the simultaneously firing potentitial of some region  defended by PVO - meaning it specifies the max. attack potential of the enemy your SAM units will be able to

    repel. (roughly, although you have numerous more factors involved which are extremely important)

    At the moment Russian PVO troops has something of abt. 220-250 firing radar sets meaning 220 - 250,  S-300 (of all version S-400/300) batteries.

    If you want to know the number of TEL involved (ready to fire) you can multiply that number by 8 to get a roughly estimation of their numbers meaning 1800 - 2000 ready to fire TELs.

    But thats unimportant. Even more importaint than that is their reload time because of each prepaired firing position Russian PVO has amassed numerous TELs.

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    Re: VKO S-300, S-400 ORBAT. Composition of units:

    Post  franco on Sun Jul 05, 2015 5:24 pm

    Viktor wrote:
    franco wrote:Firing unit like a TEL.
    Your figures?

    When counting SAMs, TEL units are not that important. What is important and what counts the most are the numbers of the firing radar sets because that

    number tells you about the simultaneously firing potentitial of some region  defended by PVO - meaning it specifies the max. attack potential of the enemy your SAM units will be able to

    repel. (roughly, although you have numerous more factors involved which are extremely important)

    At the moment Russian PVO troops has something of abt. 220-250 firing radar sets meaning 220 - 250,  S-300 (of all version S-400/300) batteries.

    If you want to know the number of TEL involved (ready to fire) you can multiply that number by 8 to get a roughly estimation of their numbers meaning 1800 - 2000 ready to fire TELs.

    But thats unimportant. Even more importaint than that is their reload time because of each prepaired firing position Russian PVO has amassed numerous TELs.

    1. Afraid I have to disagree.
    2. A battery of S-300/400 is 4 not 8.
    3. What is the firing radar set for these weapons?
    4. Have to go out but will give you the what, where and who that I have when I return.

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    Re: VKO S-300, S-400 ORBAT. Composition of units:

    Post  Viktor on Sun Jul 05, 2015 5:33 pm

    franco wrote:
    1. Afraid I have to disagree.
    2. A battery of S-300/400 is 4 not 8.
    3. What is the firing radar set for these weapons?
    4. Have to go out but will give you the what, where and who that I have when I return.

    1. Right.
    2. Standard number of TELs in the export version of S-300xx SAMs is 4 although a Buyer can order more TELs per battery.

    For instance a Buyer can order 8 TELs per battery or perhaps even 12 which is the max number per TEL.

    Standard/average number of of TELs per S-300xx battery in the service of Russian PVO troops is 8 TELs per battery.

    3. 30N6 / 9S32 or 92N6 and their iterations.



    4. I have already learned much about Russian PVO in great detail (what was possible from the internet domain) but you are welcomed to try.


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    Re: VKO S-300, S-400 ORBAT. Composition of units:

    Post  franco on Sun Jul 05, 2015 8:01 pm

    Re #4 - I have been doing this a long time, almost as long as you have been around and I have learned two main things;
    - you are never going to get 100% data
    - be prepared tomorrow to have a different opinion then today

    North
    Polyarnny (531st regt) - 8 S-400 & 12 PM's
    Olenegorsk (583rd regt) - 8 PM's & 8 PS's
    Severodvinsk (1528th regt) - 16 PS's

    St Petersburg area
    Gostilitsy (500th) - 8 S-400 & 12 PM's
    Zelenogorsk (1488th) - 16 PS's
    Vaganova (1489th) - 8 PM's
    Ulyanovka (1490th) - 16 PS's

    Kaliningrad area
    Gvardeysk (183rd) - 8 S-400 & 8 PS's

    Moscow area
    Dubrovka (210th) - 8 S-400
    Marino (584th) – 16 PM's
    Glagolevo (612th) – 12 PM's
    Funkovo (93rd) – 8 S-400
    Klin (722nd) – 12 PM's
    Elektrostal (606th) – 8 S-400
    Kurilovo (549th) – 16 PM's
    Pestovo (614th) – 12 PM's
    Kablukova (629th) – 12 PM's
    Chastsy (799th) – 16 PS's

    West
    Valdai (42nd) – 8 PS's
    Voronezh (108th) - 16 PS's

    South
    Novorossiysk (1537th) - 8 S-400 & 8 PM's
    Bataysk (1536th) – 16 PM's

    Crimea
    Sevastopol (12th) – 8 PM's
    Theodosia (18th) – 8 PM's

    Central
    Engels (511th) -8 PS's
    Yekaterinburg (185th) - 8 PS's
    Samara (568th) - 12 PS's
    Novosibirsk (590th) - 16 PS's
    Angarsk (1534th) - 12 PS's

    Eastern
    Khabarovsk (1529th) - 12 PS's
    Komsomolsk-on-Amur (1530th) - 20 PS's
    Vladivostok (1533rd) – 8 PS's
    Nakhodka (589th) - 8 S-400 & 8 PS's
    Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky (1532nd) - 12 S-400

    Notes;
    - does not include any 300V or Buk units
    - does not include the regiment size unit in Abkhazia of 16 SA-300PS's which may have been given to the Abkhazians or operated jointly and for which I have no unit number
    - notice on Goggle satellite photos that some of the SA-300PS's taken from the Ukrainians in Crimea and awaiting to be returned are stored with the Russian SA-300PM's and some are in the launch position.
    - at one time had a count of 188 SA-300PM's. Now showing only 160. I know that at least 8 were given to Belarus to upgrade their Air Defenses and the rest could be exchanged for PS's that I have not found or still with the SA-400 units.
    - There are an additional 8 PS's at the training site Ashuluk











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    Re: VKO S-300, S-400 ORBAT. Composition of units:

    Post  Viktor on Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:50 am

    When you say for instance 18 S-400, do you mean 18 TEL?



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    Re: VKO S-300, S-400 ORBAT. Composition of units:

    Post  franco on Tue Jul 07, 2015 10:14 pm

    Viktor wrote:When you say for instance 18 S-400, do you mean 18 TEL?



    Yes, check out the goggle map co-ordinates that a poster(?) put in the 400/500 thread. I can provide the same. Also you may be thinking of the 300PT system which employed 2-3 "slave" TEL's along with the "master" TEL, which had the fire control. The 300PM's and 400's are controlled very differently with most firing locations have two 4-unit divisions but some have three 4-unit divisions and at least one has four 4-units. Some regiments have only 1 firing site while other regiments control 2 firing sites. Some of the PS's and PT regiments used to control 3-4 sites but they have all been phased out or in the process of.

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    Post  Viktor on Wed Jul 08, 2015 7:57 pm

    franco wrote:

    Notes;
    - does not include any 300V or Buk units
    - does not include the regiment size unit in Abkhazia of 16 SA-300PS's which may have been given to the Abkhazians or operated jointly and for which I have no unit number
    - notice on Goggle satellite photos that some of the SA-300PS's taken from the Ukrainians in Crimea and awaiting to be returned are stored with the Russian SA-300PM's and some are in the launch position.
    - at one time had a count of 188 SA-300PM's. Now showing only 160. I know that at least 8 were given to Belarus to upgrade their Air Defenses and the rest could be exchanged for PS's that I have not found or still with the SA-400 units.
    - There are an additional 8 PS's at the training site Ashuluk


    Im have not borther to do counting and wont because reading about Russian PVO tactics I have learnt its all about stealth and concealment meaning google earth will lead you to

    nowhere. I is simply by my opinion wrong approach. Why? Well because -

    1. If you are counting anything dont count TEL (it means nothing)
    2. Count shooting radars (only thing making some sense - because you can work with that number)
    3. You until recently thought that 4 TEL goes per battery not knowing that it can support 12 TELs per battery.

    franco wrote:2. A battery of S-300/400 is 4 not 8.

    meaning you lack fundamentals. Take this not as a critics but as a advice - you will feel much better reading about complexity of Russian PVO design of which you apparently know

    little than counting usless TELs.

    4. You will know that Russia has 480 TELs when you saw NATO generals jumping from happines all over the place. Russian PVO generals are talking about reflecting attacks

    consisting of up to 500 planes per side from two different sides (out of three possible vectors of approach) and you are talking about lousy 60 batteries Very Happy ... yeah per air defense zone.

    Smile

    5. But when you start counting (if managed to find) Bastion, Univerzal, Fundament, Akacia, AKUP, Rubezh etc I will know you have reached a certain lvl.

    Counting TELs will lead you nowhere.

    6.
    franco wrote:I know that at least 8 were given to Belarus to upgrade their Air Defenses and

    You have got it all wrong.

    Belarus will get 4 S-300 batteries meaning at least 4x8=32 TELs along with its 4 shooting and search radar. One nice regiment to put it nicely.

    4 shooting radar can guide 48 missiles on to 24 targets. Meaning for instance that Poland could easily find itself without planes to attack just after few futile attempts if it gets

    any crazy idea because Belarus has much more of S-300Px and S-300Vx and other PVO along with its interceptors and powerful PVO industry.

    7.
    franco wrote:Some regiments have only 1 firing site while other regiments control 2 firing sites. Some of the PS's and PT regiments used to control 3-4 sites but they have all been phased out or in the process of.

    Of course you will never be able to count hundereds of concealed prepaired and hundereds of unprepaired firing sites of which every one has a concealed roads and electricity Very Happy

    Things you are able to counts with google earth or sort is up to a point (very low one) "on duty" SAMs. Nothing more.

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    S-300V/PS/PM, S-400 numbers and sites. Composition of rgts and btns

    Post  rambo54 on Tue Jul 14, 2015 2:31 pm

    It's always good to trust what you can see (on satellite or youtube or images).
    For example. One video clip here in this thread show us the deployment of S-400 (5P85S2) at Gadshijevo (the clip is from March this year).
    It is the 531st AD RGT. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=KSw4LE0_dq0
    The RGT has a second battalion over here 69.055234° 33.347985°. It is said that they replace a complete regimental set of equipment.
    Now we have image update of 27th May 2015 for this site.
    Have a look here  69.055234° 33.347985° and here  69.056937° 33.352159°. Still S-300PM (5P85T)! So not even the second Batt of this RGT is replaced (end of May)!

    So I'm a little bit sceptic about announcings.
    Earlier this year there were articles saying: New sites for S-400 are Novosibirsk or Novalja Semelya...or Vaganovo (St.Petersburg)...all nonsense.
    Future will tell and show the new locations. Cool

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    Re: VKO S-300, S-400 ORBAT. Composition of units:

    Post  Viktor on Tue Jul 14, 2015 11:53 pm

    If you could ever hope to undoubtedly see everything than I might agree whith you but until than I will take

    the word of Almaz-Antey chairman or Russian president Putin or any other PVO general and the man from the branch over yours anytime Very Happy

    You tend to exert the control over the foreign army branch that relays on concealment tactics more than any other from any other country by counting some numbers from a civil

    satellites?! Does not go that way - even If you could use real time military satellites and have an army of top intelligence man by your side you would not know whats going on.

    You would not have a clue !

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    Re: VKO S-300, S-400 ORBAT. Composition of units:

    Post  rambo54 on Wed Jul 15, 2015 10:36 am

    Russian Politics always work this way: "announce one thing and realize the half"
    Continue to believe in Putin :-)
    Count your informations ...I count mine
    I think regarding the S-400 and S-300 and S-300V I have a pretty good overview
    Cheers

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    Re: VKO S-300, S-400 ORBAT. Composition of units:

    Post  Werewolf on Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:12 pm

    Remember russia is the biggest user of dummies for Jets, helicopters, trucks, tanks, ICBM's, Trains and even SAM's.

    Civil purposed Satalites are bound to a specific magnification, meaning they are not allowed to go more detailed than what you can see on google and you have no chance distinguishing if this is a real vehicle or a dummy, not to mention it is already hard enough to distinguish what kind of vehicle you are seeing on those pictures.

    SAM (PVO,RKO and VKKO) are russias secret branches that are on the highest priority, you will not get even half the information and locations of those launchers, at least not nearly enoug coords to have any virtual usefulness of countering them with such low intel. It is like trying to gether intel on military hardware by using Wikishmedia alone.

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    Re: VKO S-300, S-400 ORBAT. Composition of units:

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:59 pm

    rambo54 wrote:Russian Politics always work this way: "announce one thing and realize the half"
    Continue to believe in Putin :-)
    Count your informations ...I count mine
    I think regarding the S-400 and S-300 and S-300V I have a pretty good overview
    Cheers

    How do you determine that what you are looking at is a Basic S-300P model or not? As well, what makes you think that is the locations mentioned as to where S-400 is supposed to be? Randomly searching on google earth isnt going to be accurate, nor is it going to cover every aspect of possible locations. So what makes your google world search more reliable than what the military states that they have in their inventory?

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    Re: VKO S-300, S-400 ORBAT. Composition of units:

    Post  rambo54 on Thu Aug 27, 2015 5:34 pm

    we got new update of the Poljarny area on GE - image is from 9.7.15
    over here we have the new S-400 site of 531 RGT: 69.230996° 33.256711° - there are 12 TELs 5P85D2.
    The other site of 531 RGT 69.055827° 33.349671° seems to remain with some 16 TELs 5P85T of S-300PM.
    I think the RGT contains 2 Batt with 12 S-400 at one site and another 2 Batt with S-300PM at another site.

    So obviously we have a similiar situation as in Kalinigrad.
    There we have the 183 RGT with one S-400 site (54.681860° 21.012967°) with 12 TELs 5P85T2 in two Batt.
    Three other sites of this RGT still operates S-300PS: 54.872952° 19.953052° /  54.746847°  20.073375° / 54.600556°  19.847271°

    Cheers

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    Re: VKO S-300, S-400 ORBAT. Composition of units:

    Post  rambo54 on Fri Sep 18, 2015 4:22 pm

    There is an article about S-400 deployment.
    https://russiandefpolicy.wordpress.com/tag/s-400/
    Apart from the known announcement to have two more RGT at the years end the figures showm some confusion about the Regiments at Moscow.
    Obviously the question is whether we have a fifth RGT there or a “silent” upgrade of launchers which then do not count as an official regiment.
    The reason could be that the third battalions of Regiments 606 and 210 replace or already replaced their third battalion (maintained as S-300PM) with S-400 launchers too.
    I might be wrong but the site of the last S-300PM of 210th look different now. It seems that at least 4 of the eight launcher sbecame 5P85T2 (BAZ 64022) meanwhile. The northern section remains with 5P85T (KrAZ 260).
    Unfortunately we have no recent images of the third 606 RGT site 55.673967° 38.362402° or the third site of 93rd RGT 55.814515°  36.872228°. The 549 RGT had only two battalions which are replaced by S-400 completely.
    Well…time will show.





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    Post  rambo54 on Fri Jan 01, 2016 12:30 pm

    There are a lot of rumors about new deployments. I don't know which one is true.
    I've read that there is a deployment at Novaja Semelya (Rogachevo AF)
    http://tass.ru/en/russia/769960
    But as far as I know this is S-300PM - redeployment from Murmansk

    And there is this about Vladivostok (1533 AD RGT)
    http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20151125/1327872970.html

    Strange....Very close to Nachodka's 589 RGT.

    The Regiment at Vladivostok would be No 12 if I'm not mistaken. It is hard to keep up informed :-)

    P.S - about the Regiment at St.Petersburg...is it already known to what Regiment they were going?

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    Re: VKO S-300, S-400 ORBAT. Composition of units:

    Post  franco on Fri Jan 01, 2016 12:59 pm

    There are supposed to be 10 regiments having S-400 by years end and another 5 to receive them in 2016.
    Still not sure of which unit around St Petersburg received the 400.
    Trying to track down the 4 new locations in the Crimea. Have only found one in Sevastopol so far.
    My present count is 36 Regiments and 80 battalions for the PS/PM/400 units.
    The Novaja Semelya would make 81 and the Syrian unit 82.

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    Re: VKO S-300, S-400 ORBAT. Composition of units:

    Post  rambo54 on Fri Jan 01, 2016 2:48 pm

    franco wrote:There are supposed to be 10 regiments having S-400 by years end and another 5 to receive them in 2016.
    Still not sure of which unit around St Petersburg received the 400.
    Trying to track down the 4 new locations in the Crimea. Have only found one in Sevastopol so far.
    My present count is 36 Regiments and 80 battalions for the PS/PM/400 units.
    The Novaja Semelya would make 81 and the Syrian unit 82.

    Hi franco!
    Thanks for your response.

    I think at the years end we had 11 RGT of S-400
    4 at Moscow (606, 210,93, 549); 1 at Novorossisk (1537); 1 at Nachodka (589); 1 at Rybachi (1532); 1 at Polyarny (531); 1 at Kaliningrad (183), probably 1 at Novosibirsk (590), and 1 at St.Petersburg (probably with 500 or 1489 RGT)
    Vladivostok woud be No 12 (1533 RGT)

    According to my informations Novaja Semelya received S-300PM from this site 69.055162° 33.348233° / 69.056871° 33.352229° (use history layer of 9th July 2015 to see some 16 PM)

    For Crimea I found only two PM sites S-300 : 45.114125° 33.979046° (12th RGT) and a new site next to Balbeck AB
    https://maps.yandex.ru/959/sevastopol/?ll=33.597588%2C44.705742&spn=2.817993%2C0.963995&z=18&l=map%2Csat

    My total count for remaining S-300 is some 50 sites
    Kaliningrad: 4 PS (belonging to 183 RGT)
    Kola: 1PM with 583 RGT
    Severodvinsk: 4 PT with 1528 RGT
    St Petersburg: 2PS and 1 PM (belonging to 1488 RGT at Roschtschino) / 1PS (belonging to 1489 at Vaganovo) / 2PS (belonging to 1490 at Eglizi) / 2 PM (belonging to 500 at Tamengont and Sakkalo)
    Moscow: 3PM with 629 RGT / 2PM with 614 RGT / 3 PM with 612 RGT / 1PM with 584 RGT
    (note: 3rd Batt of 606/210/93 RGT meanwhile got S-400 too)
    Rostov: 2PM with 1536
    Voronesh: 2PS with 108 RGT
    Engels: 2PS with 511 RGT
    Samara: 2PS with 568 RGT
    Ekaterinburg: 2PS with 185 RGT
    Irkutsk: 1PS with 1534 RGT
    Atschinsk: 1PS with 388 RGT
    Solnetshny: 1PS with 1530 RGt
    Anastasyevka: 2PS with 1529 RGT
    Vladivostok: 2PS with 1533 RGt (maybe meanwhile S-400)
    Waldai: 2PS with 42 RGT
    Novaya Semelya: 1 or 2 PM with unknown RGT

    the S-400 unit (meanwhile 4 launcher) at Latakia belongs to 549 RGT at Moscow

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    Re: VKO S-300, S-400 ORBAT. Composition of units:

    Post  franco on Fri Jan 01, 2016 3:06 pm

    Is this your first site?
    https://maps.yandex.ru/959/sevastopol/?ll=33.433134%2C44.544491&spn=2.817993%2C0.963995&z=18&l=map%2Csat

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    Re: VKO S-300, S-400 ORBAT. Composition of units:

    Post  rambo54 on Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:23 pm

    franco wrote:Is this your first site?
    https://maps.yandex.ru/959/sevastopol/?ll=33.433134%2C44.544491&spn=2.817993%2C0.963995&z=18&l=map%2Csat
    I hadn't this one because I didn't look at yandeks. It was a former S-300PS site of Ukraine. Now it seems to be S-300PM.

    My sites are here:
    Probably 12th AD RGT with two Batt 45.126739° 33.985778° and 45.107645° 33.965794° of S-300PM - Big Bird is here 45.105382° 33.981945°.
    A new one seems to be here 44.706237° 33.598348° (Yandeks)

    Some equipment is still over here 44.518230° 33.484105°
    This PT site seems to be empty now 44.688928° 34.423665°
    I'm not sure whether these PS sites are still active 45.010170° 35.400187° ad here 45.150717° 35.724671°

    franco
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    Re: VKO S-300, S-400 ORBAT. Composition of units:

    Post  franco on Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:31 pm

    Yandex is generally more up to date then Google.

    Check your messages.

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    Re: VKO S-300, S-400 ORBAT. Composition of units:

    Post  Sponsored content Today at 5:21 pm


      Current date/time is Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:21 pm