Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Questions and Ideas

    Share

    victor1985
    Major
    Major

    Posts : 852
    Points : 901
    Join date : 2015-01-02

    Questions and Ideas

    Post  victor1985 on Fri Jan 02, 2015 2:22 pm

    hey i thinked to something: as we know radar waves pass trough glass or plastic. i tinked if we fill a plane in plastic or something else plastic being in aeerodinamic shape we could put the metal at the interior in some angles that to deviate better radar waves without scramble plane aerodinamics. in this the plane could have both high speed and maneuvrability and invizibility
    ofcourse the plastic should be resistent to friction and temperature. or any other material that permit radar waves to pass

    Werewolf
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5391
    Points : 5640
    Join date : 2012-10-24

    Re: Questions and Ideas

    Post  Werewolf on Fri Jan 02, 2015 2:32 pm

    victor1985 wrote:hey i thinked to something: as we know radar waves pass trough glass or plastic. i tinked if we fill a plane in plastic or something else plastic being in aeerodinamic shape we could put the metal at the interior in some angles that to deviate better radar waves without scramble plane aerodinamics. in this the plane could have both high speed and maneuvrability and invizibility
    ofcourse the plastic should be resistent to friction and temperature. or any other material that permit radar waves to pass

    Glass weights alot and would break immidiatley at low G-force, plastic does not give any structrural benefits which Aircrafts need to perform high G-loads or even low G-loads.

    If you mean GFK or any sort of composite material by plastic than yes to some degree that is already in use.

    victor1985
    Major
    Major

    Posts : 852
    Points : 901
    Join date : 2015-01-02

    Re: Questions and Ideas

    Post  victor1985 on Sat Jan 03, 2015 10:47 am

    then why i heard  about that invisible planes at an specific angle become visible on radars? this method should make easier to put metal at what angle you wish to have a completely invisible on radar plane....i suppose. i know something about that metal can't reflect totally the radar waves. or is just something is not true? i am thinking that under the composite materials the metal could be mobile in that should achieve any angle for waves.

    and how efective is now the GFK?

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15482
    Points : 16189
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Questions and Ideas

    Post  GarryB on Sat Jan 03, 2015 10:56 am

    Actually the external shape of an aircraft is generally already more stealthy than its insides.

    The nose radome on a fighter that covers the radar is radar transparent already, which means the radar antenna has to be angled so it doesn't return enemy radar signals at max strength.

    Having glass leading edges would mean the structure beneath would be exposed to enemy radar and likely return a stronger signal than the leading edge would have.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    victor1985
    Major
    Major

    Posts : 852
    Points : 901
    Join date : 2015-01-02

    Re: Questions and Ideas

    Post  victor1985 on Fri Jan 09, 2015 7:27 am

    why necessary a antenna must be placed in front? i think the antenna could receive signals while is inside the plane and the signals deviated by metal plates to antenna. or a sistem in which the plane could have deviation plates on plane to concentrate signals to antenna. antennas on wings and so on could be mounted cause the signal can be transmit to nose by wires.

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15482
    Points : 16189
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Questions and Ideas

    Post  GarryB on Fri Jan 09, 2015 10:34 am

    It isn't necessary to put the radar in the nose, but most radars are large... too round to fit in the wings and you have to have a nose on the aircraft whether it has a radar in there or not so it just makes sense to fit the radar there.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    victor1985
    Major
    Major

    Posts : 852
    Points : 901
    Join date : 2015-01-02

    Re: Questions and Ideas

    Post  victor1985 on Sat Jan 10, 2015 7:07 am

    GarryB wrote:It isn't necessary to put the radar in the nose, but most radars are large... too round to fit in the wings and you have to have a nose on the aircraft whether it has a radar in there or not so it just makes sense to fit the radar there.
    yea and i thinked to antennas not radar itself. let me put a question:a radar power (distance in wich he is effective) depends on electricity? mean depends on power of the curent?
    few monts ago i tried to make on paper a design of a flux generator. the ideea was that meta materials cooled whit freon spins around metal tracks and generate energy
    also for a aircraft the air could be used to generate energy

    medo
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3054
    Points : 3152
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    Re: Questions and Ideas

    Post  medo on Sat Jan 10, 2015 1:05 pm

    victor1985 wrote:
    GarryB wrote:It isn't necessary to put the radar in the nose, but most radars are large... too round to fit in the wings and you have to have a nose on the aircraft whether it has a radar in there or not so it just makes sense to fit the radar there.
    yea and i thinked to antennas not radar itself. let me put a question:a radar power (distance in wich he is effective) depends on electricity? mean depends on power of the curent?
    few monts ago i tried to make on paper a design of a flux generator. the ideea was that meta materials cooled whit freon spins around metal tracks and generate energy
    also for a aircraft the air could be used to generate energy

    Of course a radar power depend on electricity, which were produced from engines or from additional APUs. Su-30SM have quite powerful radar Irbis-R with 15 kW peak power, the same as V-004 radar in Su-34 and Zaslon in MiG-31. Su-35 have more powerful engines and its Irbis radar have 20 kW peak power. I think PAK-FA will have similar peak power of its radar. Su-34 also have powerful ECM electronics and it have additional APU in tail sting. Powerful radars are also more resistant to jamming as many times jamming signal doesn't have enough power to jam radar signal, what mean jammer have to come closer or have to be stronger.

    Smaller single engine fighters have less powerful radars, usually with 5 kW peak power.

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15482
    Points : 16189
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Questions and Ideas

    Post  GarryB on Sun Jan 11, 2015 3:39 am

    The power of a radar depends, as Medo says on the power available, but also the radar as well.

    Take a tiny low power radar from a UAV drone and put it in an AWACS aircraft with enormous power potential and the small radar wont suddenly become more powerful.

    Equally taking a powerful radar like BARS and putting it in the nose of a MiG-23 will make it rather less powerful as the single engine wont be able to provide the power needed to operate the radar and all its associated electronics.

    New radar technology takes AESA radar modules and distributes them around the aircraft structure, o the entire external surface of the aircraft could become a radar.

    With AESA radars each module is a transmit receive component so theoretically even if each module sends a modest signal all the modules operating at once could generate a very powerful signal... of course you would need a lot of power to turn all the elements on at one time...

    the real advantage of AESA is that each radar element is a radar so the beam it transmits can be specifically shaped to optimise its performance for a particular target in an particular environment.

    For all we know there might be radar beam shapes that make certain RAM mixtures resonate... so they would actively give away a stealth targets position instead of absorbing the energy and hiding it.

    Extra power would improve range but networking with other air and ground stations could also be used to create a synthetic super antenna hundreds or thousands of kms across.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    medo
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3054
    Points : 3152
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    Re: Questions and Ideas

    Post  medo on Sun Jan 11, 2015 11:35 am

    GarryB wrote:The power of a radar depends, as Medo says on the power available, but also the radar as well.

    Take a tiny low power radar from a UAV drone and put it in an AWACS aircraft with enormous power potential and the small radar wont suddenly become more powerful.

    Equally taking a powerful radar like BARS and putting it in the nose of a MiG-23 will make it rather less powerful as the single engine wont be able to provide the power needed to operate the radar and all its associated electronics.

    Absolutely. Theoretically MiG-31 and Su-30SM could change each other radars as they have similar electricity supply and similar powerful radars. If you place less powerful radar in plane, than you need transformer for proper energy supply for radar and it will work with same capabilities as in other planes, but if you place too powerful radar in a plane it will hardly work as there will not be enough energy.



    GarryB wrote:New radar technology takes AESA radar modules and distributes them around the aircraft structure, o the entire external surface of the aircraft could become a radar.

    With AESA radars each module is a transmit receive component so theoretically even if each module sends a modest signal all the modules operating at once could generate a very powerful signal... of course you would need a lot of power to turn all the elements on at one time...

    the real advantage of AESA is that each radar element is a radar so the beam it transmits can be specifically shaped to optimise its performance for a particular target in an particular environment.

    Sometimes I wonder, if you don't need more power supply for the same peak power of AESA radar as in PESA radar because of the losses for so many small transmitters instead of few more powerful ones.

    victor1985
    Major
    Major

    Posts : 852
    Points : 901
    Join date : 2015-01-02

    Re: Questions and Ideas

    Post  victor1985 on Sun Jan 11, 2015 2:36 pm

    medo wrote:
    victor1985 wrote:
    GarryB wrote:It isn't necessary to put the radar in the nose, but most radars are large... too round to fit in the wings and you have to have a nose on the aircraft whether it has a radar in there or not so it just makes sense to fit the radar there.
    yea and i thinked to antennas not radar itself. let me put a question:a radar power (distance in wich he is effective) depends on electricity? mean depends on power of the curent?
    few monts ago i tried to make on paper a design of a flux generator. the ideea was that meta materials cooled whit freon spins around metal tracks and generate energy
    also for a aircraft the air could be used to generate energy

    Of course a radar power depend on electricity, which were produced from engines or from additional APUs. Su-30SM have quite powerful radar Irbis-R with 15 kW peak power, the same as V-004 radar in Su-34 and Zaslon in MiG-31. Su-35 have more powerful engines and its Irbis radar have 20 kW peak power. I think PAK-FA will have similar peak power of its radar. Su-34 also have powerful ECM electronics and it have additional APU in tail sting. Powerful radars are also more resistant to jamming as many times jamming signal doesn't have enough power to jam radar signal, what mean jammer have to come closer or have to be stronger.

    Smaller single engine fighters have less powerful radars, usually with 5 kW peak power.
    APU meaning what? some kind of extra sistems that gain energy from wind or omething? since some aircrafts are designated not to be stealth and dont need special materials on it you and they defend themselfs whit the weapons on board why just not fill the aicraft body whit solar panels? or at last some parts

    victor1985
    Major
    Major

    Posts : 852
    Points : 901
    Join date : 2015-01-02

    Re: Questions and Ideas

    Post  victor1985 on Sun Jan 11, 2015 2:37 pm

    an awacs like plane also could be fitted whit solas panels since he doesnt need to be stealth at all

    victor1985
    Major
    Major

    Posts : 852
    Points : 901
    Join date : 2015-01-02

    Re: Questions and Ideas

    Post  victor1985 on Sun Jan 11, 2015 2:39 pm

    GarryB wrote:The power of a radar depends, as Medo says on the power available, but also the radar as well.

    Take a tiny low power radar from a UAV drone and put it in an AWACS aircraft with enormous power potential and the small radar wont suddenly become more powerful.

    Equally taking a powerful radar like BARS and putting it in the nose of a MiG-23 will make it rather less powerful as the single engine wont be able to provide the power needed to operate the radar and all its associated electronics.

    New radar technology takes AESA radar modules and distributes them around the aircraft structure, o the entire external surface of the aircraft could become a radar.

    With AESA radars each module is a transmit receive component so theoretically even if each module sends a modest signal all the modules operating at once could generate a very powerful signal... of course you would need a lot of power to turn all the elements on at one time...

    the real advantage of AESA is that each radar element is a radar so the beam it transmits can be specifically shaped to optimise its performance for a particular target in an particular environment.

    For all we know there might be radar beam shapes that make certain RAM mixtures resonate... so they would actively give away a stealth targets position instead of absorbing the energy and hiding it.

    Extra power would improve range but networking with other air and ground stations could also be used to create a synthetic super antenna hundreds or thousands of kms across.
    there are two ways in which they figure out whit aesa: either the eqyupment is so small and doesnt disturb the plane at all even shape and weight either the planes whit aesa are bigger and have a special shape
    ofcourse in the first case being small not meaning not being powerfull.
    in a third case they fitted very small equipment in the plane where change of shape or adding weight dont matter.

    medo
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3054
    Points : 3152
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    Re: Questions and Ideas

    Post  medo on Sun Jan 11, 2015 2:46 pm

    victor1985 wrote:
    medo wrote:
    victor1985 wrote:
    GarryB wrote:It isn't necessary to put the radar in the nose, but most radars are large... too round to fit in the wings and you have to have a nose on the aircraft whether it has a radar in there or not so it just makes sense to fit the radar there.
    yea and i thinked to antennas not radar itself. let me put a question:a radar power (distance in wich he is effective) depends on electricity? mean depends on power of the curent?
    few monts ago i tried to make on paper a design of a flux generator. the ideea was that meta materials cooled whit freon spins around metal tracks and generate energy
    also for a aircraft the air could be used to generate energy

    Of course a radar power depend on electricity, which were produced from engines or from additional APUs. Su-30SM have quite powerful radar Irbis-R with 15 kW peak power, the same as V-004 radar in Su-34 and Zaslon in MiG-31. Su-35 have more powerful engines and its Irbis radar have 20 kW peak power. I think PAK-FA will have similar peak power of its radar. Su-34 also have powerful ECM electronics and it have additional APU in tail sting. Powerful radars are also more resistant to jamming as many times jamming signal doesn't have enough power to jam radar signal, what mean jammer have to come closer or have to be stronger.

    Smaller single engine fighters have less powerful radars, usually with 5 kW peak power.
    APU meaning what? some kind of extra sistems that gain energy from wind or omething? since some aircrafts are designated not to be stealth and dont need special materials on it you and they defend themselfs whit the weapons on board why just not fill the aicraft body whit solar panels? or at last some parts  

    APU meaning auxiliary power unit. It is additional electro generator. Tanks and SAMs also have them to operate their systems without using their main engine.

    victor1985
    Major
    Major

    Posts : 852
    Points : 901
    Join date : 2015-01-02

    Re: Questions and Ideas

    Post  victor1985 on Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:30 pm

    so that means all depends on how efficient are those APU. how a radar works more exacly? and what avionics means?

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15482
    Points : 16189
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Questions and Ideas

    Post  GarryB on Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:03 am

    APU meaning what? some kind of extra sistems that gain energy from wind or omething? since some aircrafts are designated not to be stealth and dont need special materials on it you and they defend themselfs whit the weapons on board why just not fill the aicraft body whit solar panels? or at last some parts

    Aircraft already have engines to keep them airborne... but some allow more take off power than others.

    the ones that lack a lot of take off power for powering electronics on board the aircraft can be fitted with small engines called APUs that can power the electronics while on the ground with the engines turned off or in flight when more power is needed.

    APUs generate rather more power than solar panels.

    so that means all depends on how efficient are those APU. how a radar works more exacly? and what avionics means?

    When designing an aircraft it will be known what sort of systems it will be carrying and what sort of power requirements it will have. Generally there is enough energy potential from the main engines to power everything.

    Avionics is an abbreviation for Aviation electronics.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    victor1985
    Major
    Major

    Posts : 852
    Points : 901
    Join date : 2015-01-02

    Re: Questions and Ideas

    Post  victor1985 on Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:04 pm

    i thinked that special drones can be made for test missiles on them....
    similar can be done whit ground forces or naval or whatever
    even low or totally invisible on radar drones can be made whit various speeds and volumes

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15482
    Points : 16189
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Military Questions

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:52 am

    the main problem with unmanned drones is they tend to be fairly stupid.

    If you put lots of sensors on them and self defence systems and try to make them stealthy... all of a sudden you have to duplicate critical systems too and they get bigger and heavier and rather more expensive, yet still don't have a pilot on board that can bring them home if something fails.

    If you want to fill your own skies with armed drones that can make their own decisions you might lose a few civilian airliners. It would be the same problem if you operate all your unmanned drones in enemy airspace.

    And of course when your own ground based air defences now have streams of armed drones flying all around the place as well as manned aircraft coming and going mistakes become inevitable.

    Mistakes are always possible but having a man in the seat able to make decisions greatly increases the performance of the system.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    VladimirSahin
    Master Sergeant
    Master Sergeant

    Posts : 364
    Points : 384
    Join date : 2013-11-29
    Age : 25
    Location : Some redneck state in the US.

    3D armor model question.

    Post  VladimirSahin on Tue Feb 17, 2015 1:24 am

    Hello all, I just recently got into 3D modelling, And I have started modelling the T-72 ural and am planning to simulate its armor for personal purposes plus if I do somehow make some reliable testing simulation I can share results here maybe one day I can make
    a good simulator Smile can anybody give me measures of T-72 ural's hull height and turret height and length? I may have more questions and I am a "noob" at modelling but I am hoping I will be able to get good at over time. I will be asking other questions if I do somehow get past this part, And I would be very grateful if there is a even novice modeler on here that can give me some help and advice.

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15482
    Points : 16189
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Questions and Ideas

    Post  GarryB on Tue Feb 17, 2015 9:44 am

    I seem to remember there were quite a few very capable modellers on this forum... check the introductions area for them....


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    VladimirSahin
    Master Sergeant
    Master Sergeant

    Posts : 364
    Points : 384
    Join date : 2013-11-29
    Age : 25
    Location : Some redneck state in the US.

    Re: Questions and Ideas

    Post  VladimirSahin on Tue Feb 17, 2015 7:43 pm

    GarryB wrote:I seem to remember there were quite a few very capable modellers on this forum... check the introductions area for them....

    Ok I'll check on them.

    victor1985
    Major
    Major

    Posts : 852
    Points : 901
    Join date : 2015-01-02

    Search for books

    Post  victor1985 on Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:47 am

    Hy. I search for books in pdf format or articles or whatever about tactics strategyes and how function weapons and equipment. I know usually nobody gives important informations but sometimes books or articles are made for general knowing of informations. In those books the scientific bases upon the weapons works are written. This kind of books i search.

    victor1985
    Major
    Major

    Posts : 852
    Points : 901
    Join date : 2015-01-02

    Questions and Ideas

    Post  victor1985 on Sun Mar 15, 2015 2:06 pm

    At someones suggestion i will open this topic where i and others can ask a lot of things whitout polluting other topics (is so hard to follow all posts). Also this would be the place for weird ideas and concepts.

    victor1985
    Major
    Major

    Posts : 852
    Points : 901
    Join date : 2015-01-02

    Re: Questions and Ideas

    Post  victor1985 on Sun Mar 15, 2015 7:19 pm

    At subs are used wired torpedos? Informations could be transmitted trought. Also missiles could be carryed by a torpedo engine till surface then the engine could start so that the missiles could be launched from deep water. Torpedo engines would be dropped at surface

    victor1985
    Major
    Major

    Posts : 852
    Points : 901
    Join date : 2015-01-02

    Re: Questions and Ideas

    Post  victor1985 on Sun Mar 15, 2015 7:41 pm

    Or a tank whit air that carry the missile at surface

    Sponsored content

    Re: Questions and Ideas

    Post  Sponsored content Today at 2:08 am


      Current date/time is Sat Dec 10, 2016 2:08 am