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    Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:36 pm

    .
    Different angles:






    More pics of missile loading here:
    https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/97510/

    rambo54

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  rambo54 on Sun Sep 03, 2017 10:49 am

    so they obviously use Sevastopol before Novorossisk construction is finished - right?
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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:26 pm

    rambo54 wrote:so they obviously use Sevastopol before Novorossisk construction is finished - right?

    If the base is not finished yes that would be a sensible move.
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    franco

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  franco on Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:08 pm

    rambo54 wrote:so they obviously use Sevastopol before Novorossisk construction is finished - right?

    Was announced within the last month or so that some of the support units facilities were completed and they were turned over the keys.
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    JohninMK

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  JohninMK on Sat Sep 09, 2017 3:45 pm

    The Russian Navy’s final two diesel-electric submarines have reached the Mediterranean Sea en route to their permanent homeport in the Black Sea, Russian defense ministry announced on August 28.

    Project 636.3 (NATO reporting name: improved Kilo-class) submarines Kolpino and Veliky Novgorod got underway this month from Saint Petersburg on the Baltic Sea where they were built by Admiralty Shipyards.

    On August 16, the submarines were escorted by NATO vessels as they traveled through the North Sea while surfaced.

    They are accompanied by Baltic Fleet tug SB-921 on their way to the Black Sea fleet where they will round off the Russian Navy’s goal of operating six improved Kilo-class submarines in the Black Sea.

    Prior to entering the Black Sea, the submarines are likely to spend some time in the Mediterranean taking part in Russian operations in Syria, similarly to what their predecessor Krasnodar did a month ago before docking in Sevastopol.


    https://thebalticpost.com/2017/08/28/russias-black-sea-fleet-soon-to-welcome-final-two-kilo-submarines/
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    hoom

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  hoom on Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:06 am

    Another Kalibr strike, this time 10 rounds, 6 from one sub, 4 from the other Shocked

    Unless they reloaded at-sea/in Tartus they must have left the Baltic with a full Kalibr loadout & no torps? Shocked

    Edit: I thought had been previously mentioned in this thread but there have been at least 2 previous salvoes from the 2 subs off Syria

    miroslav

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  miroslav on Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:08 pm

    hoom wrote:Another Kalibr strike, this time 10 rounds, 6 from one sub, 4 from the other Shocked
    Unless they reloaded at-sea/in Tartus they must have left the Baltic with a full Kalibr loadout & no torps? Shocked

    Edit: I thought had been previously mentioned in this thread but there have been at least 2 previous salvoes from the 2 subs off Syria


    I am not sure I understand your question, why would the Kalibrs and Torpedos be mutually exclusive. Kilos can carry up to 18 torpedoes according to the specification, but any one of these can be a Kalibr missile.

    Some specs:
    1. Kalibr 3M14K variant for subs:
    Length: 6.2 m
    Diameter: 533 mm (obviously)

    2 Torpedos, 53-65 variant:
    Length: 7.2 m
    Diameter: 533 mm


    Last edited by miroslav on Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:09 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : additional info added)
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    hoom

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  hoom on Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:24 am

    Uh, maths fail sorry Embarassed
    I was counting 12 Kalibr launched thinking that was the capacity but with 18 they have room for some torps or another bunch of shots.

    Anyways: 6 round salvo is pretty impressive.
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    hoom

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  hoom on Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:40 am

    Another 6 missile salvo, this one from Kolpino


    There was also a 3 round salvo a few days back though the video I saw showed only 2, maybe 1 from the other sub?

    For the record there's also been a bunch of dumb National Interest style poop propaganda articles doing the rounds 'The Hunt for Krasnodar' notable primarily for there being several variants & showing up in places that don't normally carry that kind of tripe.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:09 am

    '
    Remember 2 years ago when first Kilo launched 2 missiles simultaneously and it was considered awesome? All shy and nervous like teen girl on her first date?

    Now they're routinely dumping 6 missiles in one salvo like every day is a prom night...lol1
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    BM-21

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  BM-21 on Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:34 am

    I wonder if 6 Kalibr is the maximum capacity for this boat or could they load it with even more cruise missiles? According to some of the earlier posts the land attack variant of the Kalibr has smaller dimensions than the torpedoes that it carries.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Nov 04, 2017 5:02 am

    BM-21 wrote:I wonder if 6 Kalibr is the maximum capacity for this boat or could they load it with even more cruise missiles? According to some of the earlier posts the land attack variant of the Kalibr has smaller dimensions than the torpedoes that it carries.  

    It's smaller but once you add the external package it has same dimensions

    I think that next Lada class should have set of vertical launchers but I don't know if they will add them

    Amur export version was supposed to have it
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    BM-21

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  BM-21 on Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:36 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    BM-21 wrote:I wonder if 6 Kalibr is the maximum capacity for this boat or could they load it with even more cruise missiles? According to some of the earlier posts the land attack variant of the Kalibr has smaller dimensions than the torpedoes that it carries.  

    It's smaller but once you add the external package it has same dimensions

    I think that next Lada class should have set of vertical launchers but I don't know if they will add them

    Amur export version was supposed to have it

    A kilo with 18 cruise missiles would be interesting given that the capability exists.
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    hoom

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  hoom on Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:15 am

    I wonder if 6 Kalibr is the maximum capacity for this boat or could they load it with even more cruise missiles?
    As I posted earlier I'm pretty sure at least one of these subs has fired 12* including a full 6* round salvo, I think both must be over 12* with this latest salvo.

    I hope/wish someone has been keeping proper count.
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    franco

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  franco on Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:54 pm

    It is my understanding that they cannot reload Caliber into the torpedo tubes at sea, so 10 or 6 depending on the variant of sub would be the max.
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    TheArmenian

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  TheArmenian on Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:48 pm

    franco wrote:It is my understanding that they cannot reload Caliber into the torpedo tubes at sea, so 10 or 6 depending on the variant of sub would be the max.

    Incorrect.

    The subs carry a mix of Kalibers and torpedoes and can load, unload and reload all their tubes while at sea.
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    AlfaT8

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  AlfaT8 on Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:59 pm

    franco wrote:It is my understanding that they cannot reload Caliber into the torpedo tubes at sea, so 10 or 6 depending on the variant of sub would be the max.

    No, god no, your getting torpedo tubes mixed up with vertical launcher.
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    franco

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  franco on Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:25 pm

    Stand corrected Embarassed and that sounds better thumbsup if correct Very Happy


    PS Sorry couldn't resist on the last one No

    miroslav

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  miroslav on Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:32 am

    Maybe I'm missing something here, if I'm explaining something that's obvious then I apologies.

    The sub can carry 18 torpedo sized weapons in its torpedo bay, the Kalibr missile family was made to be the same diameter and as long as a torpedo (mostly) from the start so they can fit into a standard torpedo tube.

    The sub has 6 torpedo tubes, this is why they can fire a max of 6 missiles in one salvo, once they fire them they load the second salvo. In the 6 torpedo tubes they can have a mix any 6 weapons that they like, 3 standard torpedo's + 3 land attack Kalibrs or 3 standard torpedo's + 3 anti-sub/anti-ship Kalibrs (for long range).

    I don't want to pretend like a know the loading procedure but logic indicates that the loading/reloding into the tube is exactly the same as long as the weapon is made to fit it, again, that was the whole point.

    Given this and if money allows it, I would imagine that they only need 1/3 of the total load to be standard torpedo and 2/3 a mix from the Kalibr family.

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  miroslav on Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:48 am

    While we are on the subject, I was thinking, whats stooping a frigate like the one from Adm. Grigorovic class to launch a submarine version of the Kalibr missile from its torpedo tubes, I don't see any major reasons why it couldn't.

    As far as I see the solid fuel booster engine on the Kalibr missile is on while the missile is in the water.

    The american design for launching Harpoons from a sub tube relies on a container to house the missiles that is ejected from the tube, once the container break the surface the missiles if fired from it, do they use the same method here?

    On the pictures from above, where the missile is loaded into the sub, by examining the image of the actual missiles (close up of the models), that definitely looks like some sort of a container to house the missiles, the nose is not round enough and there in no "gap" between the end of the missile and the begging of the buster engine.

    Any thoughts.

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  miroslav on Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:37 am

    miroslav wrote:While we are on the subject, I was thinking, whats stooping a frigate like the one from Adm. Grigorovic class to launch a submarine version of the Kalibr missile from its torpedo tubes, I don't see any major reasons why it couldn't.

    As far as I see the solid fuel booster engine on the Kalibr missile is on while the missile is in the water.

    The american design for launching Harpoons from a sub tube relies on a container to house the missiles that is ejected from the tube, once the container break the surface the missiles if fired from it, do they use the same method here?

    On the pictures from above, where the missile is loaded into the sub, by examining the image of the actual missiles (close up of the models), that definitely looks like some sort of a container to house the missiles, the nose is not round enough and there in no "gap" between the end of the missile and the begging of the buster engine.  

    Any thoughts.

    Holly shit, I just now saw the latest video of the launch, and I received my answer.

    At 00:01 you can see the top of the container flying of to the left and up of the 2nd missile and at 00:02 you can see the container tube falling to the right and down of the missile path, again at 00:07 for the 3rd one, and 00:11 for the 4th one, and so on.

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    BM-21

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  BM-21 on Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:57 am

    miroslav wrote:Maybe I'm missing something here, if I'm explaining something that's obvious then I apologies.

    The sub can carry 18 torpedo sized weapons in its torpedo bay, the Kalibr missile family was made to be the same diameter and as long as a torpedo (mostly) from the start so they can fit into a standard torpedo tube.

    The sub has 6 torpedo tubes, this is why they can fire a max of 6 missiles in one salvo, once they fire them they load the second salvo. In the 6 torpedo tubes they can have a mix any 6 weapons that they like, 3 standard torpedo's + 3 land attack Kalibrs or 3 standard torpedo's + 3 anti-sub/anti-ship Kalibrs (for long range).

    I don't want to pretend like a know the loading procedure but logic indicates that the loading/reloding into the tube is exactly the same as long as the weapon is made to fit it, again, that was the whole point.

    Given this and if money allows it, I would imagine that they only need 1/3 of the total load to be standard torpedo and 2/3 a mix from the Kalibr family.

    Good analysis. So in theory nothing could stop the Kilo from firing 18 land attack Kalibrs in three salvos. I have read from several different sources that the Kilo can carry a maximum of 4 or 6 Kalibrs. Why would they say that? What would stop it from carrying even more cruise missiles in the torpedo bay unless there is something that we are missing out on.
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    hoom

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  hoom on Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:17 am

    I have read from several different sources that the Kilo can carry a maximum of 4 or 6 Kalibrs.
    Indeed, seems that some Western analyst made the claim of 4/6 max & was accepted without thought.
    Possibly its based on announced tests or just that the previous subs have only launched 4 or 6 before proceeding on to Sevastopol.

    But now we have two that have fired at least 12 each including full 6 tube salvos and I think thats probably going to be giving some Nato analysts/propagandists nightmares sunny

    The hilarious thing about the previously mentioned 'Hunt for Krasnodar' propaganda pieces articles is they talk up the Kalibr launching by Krasnodar as something massively revolutionary while ignoring that Krasnodar is 4th of 6 for BSF, with each of the previous ones having launched a bunch of Kalibr on the way to Sevastopol, there are already 18 export versions in service with a couple more in-build and bizzarely for late October articles no mention that Krasnodar had long since continued on to Sevastopol & we'd already seen a full 6 missile salvo from the final pair lol!
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    GarryB

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  GarryB on Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:40 am

    They are perhaps describing a normal war load where its duties will include rather more than just a land attack mission...

    I have heard that the Kilos have an automated torpedo reloading system that allows fairly rapid reloading (in comparison to normal 10 minute type reloads).


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    hoom

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  hoom on Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:34 am

    Ah good someone has been keeping count, via the Kalibr thread

    Thats 29* Kalibr launches between 2* Kilos -> neither of them has a full salvo worth of torps.

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