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    Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

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    AlfaT8

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  AlfaT8 on Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:59 pm

    franco wrote:It is my understanding that they cannot reload Caliber into the torpedo tubes at sea, so 10 or 6 depending on the variant of sub would be the max.

    No, god no, your getting torpedo tubes mixed up with vertical launcher.
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    franco

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  franco on Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:25 pm

    Stand corrected Embarassed and that sounds better thumbsup if correct Very Happy


    PS Sorry couldn't resist on the last one No

    miroslav

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  miroslav on Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:32 am

    Maybe I'm missing something here, if I'm explaining something that's obvious then I apologies.

    The sub can carry 18 torpedo sized weapons in its torpedo bay, the Kalibr missile family was made to be the same diameter and as long as a torpedo (mostly) from the start so they can fit into a standard torpedo tube.

    The sub has 6 torpedo tubes, this is why they can fire a max of 6 missiles in one salvo, once they fire them they load the second salvo. In the 6 torpedo tubes they can have a mix any 6 weapons that they like, 3 standard torpedo's + 3 land attack Kalibrs or 3 standard torpedo's + 3 anti-sub/anti-ship Kalibrs (for long range).

    I don't want to pretend like a know the loading procedure but logic indicates that the loading/reloding into the tube is exactly the same as long as the weapon is made to fit it, again, that was the whole point.

    Given this and if money allows it, I would imagine that they only need 1/3 of the total load to be standard torpedo and 2/3 a mix from the Kalibr family.

    miroslav

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  miroslav on Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:48 am

    While we are on the subject, I was thinking, whats stooping a frigate like the one from Adm. Grigorovic class to launch a submarine version of the Kalibr missile from its torpedo tubes, I don't see any major reasons why it couldn't.

    As far as I see the solid fuel booster engine on the Kalibr missile is on while the missile is in the water.

    The american design for launching Harpoons from a sub tube relies on a container to house the missiles that is ejected from the tube, once the container break the surface the missiles if fired from it, do they use the same method here?

    On the pictures from above, where the missile is loaded into the sub, by examining the image of the actual missiles (close up of the models), that definitely looks like some sort of a container to house the missiles, the nose is not round enough and there in no "gap" between the end of the missile and the begging of the buster engine.

    Any thoughts.

    miroslav

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  miroslav on Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:37 am

    miroslav wrote:While we are on the subject, I was thinking, whats stooping a frigate like the one from Adm. Grigorovic class to launch a submarine version of the Kalibr missile from its torpedo tubes, I don't see any major reasons why it couldn't.

    As far as I see the solid fuel booster engine on the Kalibr missile is on while the missile is in the water.

    The american design for launching Harpoons from a sub tube relies on a container to house the missiles that is ejected from the tube, once the container break the surface the missiles if fired from it, do they use the same method here?

    On the pictures from above, where the missile is loaded into the sub, by examining the image of the actual missiles (close up of the models), that definitely looks like some sort of a container to house the missiles, the nose is not round enough and there in no "gap" between the end of the missile and the begging of the buster engine.  

    Any thoughts.

    Holly shit, I just now saw the latest video of the launch, and I received my answer.

    At 00:01 you can see the top of the container flying of to the left and up of the 2nd missile and at 00:02 you can see the container tube falling to the right and down of the missile path, again at 00:07 for the 3rd one, and 00:11 for the 4th one, and so on.

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    BM-21

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  BM-21 on Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:57 am

    miroslav wrote:Maybe I'm missing something here, if I'm explaining something that's obvious then I apologies.

    The sub can carry 18 torpedo sized weapons in its torpedo bay, the Kalibr missile family was made to be the same diameter and as long as a torpedo (mostly) from the start so they can fit into a standard torpedo tube.

    The sub has 6 torpedo tubes, this is why they can fire a max of 6 missiles in one salvo, once they fire them they load the second salvo. In the 6 torpedo tubes they can have a mix any 6 weapons that they like, 3 standard torpedo's + 3 land attack Kalibrs or 3 standard torpedo's + 3 anti-sub/anti-ship Kalibrs (for long range).

    I don't want to pretend like a know the loading procedure but logic indicates that the loading/reloding into the tube is exactly the same as long as the weapon is made to fit it, again, that was the whole point.

    Given this and if money allows it, I would imagine that they only need 1/3 of the total load to be standard torpedo and 2/3 a mix from the Kalibr family.

    Good analysis. So in theory nothing could stop the Kilo from firing 18 land attack Kalibrs in three salvos. I have read from several different sources that the Kilo can carry a maximum of 4 or 6 Kalibrs. Why would they say that? What would stop it from carrying even more cruise missiles in the torpedo bay unless there is something that we are missing out on.

    hoom

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  hoom on Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:17 am

    I have read from several different sources that the Kilo can carry a maximum of 4 or 6 Kalibrs.
    Indeed, seems that some Western analyst made the claim of 4/6 max & was accepted without thought.
    Possibly its based on announced tests or just that the previous subs have only launched 4 or 6 before proceeding on to Sevastopol.

    But now we have two that have fired at least 12 each including full 6 tube salvos and I think thats probably going to be giving some Nato analysts/propagandists nightmares sunny

    The hilarious thing about the previously mentioned 'Hunt for Krasnodar' propaganda pieces articles is they talk up the Kalibr launching by Krasnodar as something massively revolutionary while ignoring that Krasnodar is 4th of 6 for BSF, with each of the previous ones having launched a bunch of Kalibr on the way to Sevastopol, there are already 18 export versions in service with a couple more in-build and bizzarely for late October articles no mention that Krasnodar had long since continued on to Sevastopol & we'd already seen a full 6 missile salvo from the final pair lol!
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    GarryB

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  GarryB on Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:40 am

    They are perhaps describing a normal war load where its duties will include rather more than just a land attack mission...

    I have heard that the Kilos have an automated torpedo reloading system that allows fairly rapid reloading (in comparison to normal 10 minute type reloads).

    hoom

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  hoom on Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:34 am

    Ah good someone has been keeping count, via the Kalibr thread

    Thats 29* Kalibr launches between 2* Kilos -> neither of them has a full salvo worth of torps.
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  KiloGolf on Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:45 am

    https://twitter.com/Capt_Navy/status/955077449926225920 Suspect



    Fire At Russia's Vladivostok Submarine Base Sure Doesn't Look Like An "Exercise"

    Videos began emerging overnight of what appeared to be a sizable fire on the frigid water at Russia's submarine base in Vladivostok. Three separate angles show thick black smoke rising from a blaze burning among docked Kilo class diesel-electric attack submarines. Shortly after the videos appeared, Russian media said the fire was part of a "damage control exercise" according to the Russian Navy.

    Russia's semi-official news outlet TASS quoted the Russian Navy as stating:

    "Exercises to extinguish a fire on the pier using imitation were conducted on the territory of the connection of the Pacific Fleet submarines among the personnel... The personnel coped with the [fire] excellent."

    It's very hard to imagine that such a training event would include lighting one of your own submarines on fire, or at least igniting a fire right next to a cluster of submarines sitting vulnerable tied up to a pier.

    The thick black smoke and the way the surface of the water is burning as seen in the videos makes it look like a diesel fire. Maybe the blaze was touched off during fueling of one of the Kilo class submarines tied-up on the pier, or maybe there was a leak of some kind from the submarine's tanks.

    http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/17853/fire-at-russias-vladivostok-submarine-base-sure-doesnt-look-like-an-exercise

    hoom

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  hoom on Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:52 am

    hoom wrote:Interesting that British media/RN don't seem to have made a big hoo-hah about it this time Suspect
    Didn't like being laughed at for making a big deal about escorting intercepting! a sub transiting openly on the surface?
    Oh boy and now we know why Laughing https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5463018/cash-strapped-navy-forced-to-send-pint-sized-vessel-to-intercept-two-russian-attack-subs/
    They didn't have any proper warships available -> sent a minesweeper & used military censorship to prevent the 'Free & Independant' UK media from reporting the fact until it became convenient to admit it during a big media Red Scare beat-up during leadup to the Budget trying to justify a huge Defense budget increase...

    hoom

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  hoom on Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:24 am

    Curiously Kolpino & Veliky Novgorod still don't appear to have continued past Syria to Sevastopol.
    I'm kinda suspecting they will base out of Tartus for a few years.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:45 am

    hoom wrote:Curiously Kolpino & Veliky Novgorod still don't appear to have continued past Syria to Sevastopol.
    I'm kinda suspecting they will base out of Tartus for a few years.

    Why leave if you are having fun?

    hoom

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  hoom on Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:05 am

    Some interesting pics via Balancer

    One of the boats for Pacific fleet?


    Alrosa still not making much progress...


    There are pics of the new BSF boats tied up in Sevastopol but nothing seeming particularly interesting other than continued absence of the last 2.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:38 am

    hoom wrote:Some interesting pics via Balancer

    One of the boats for Pacific fleet?


    Damn, that looks like FTL drive from that movie Event Horizon, I just hope that section is not accessible by crew because that would be scary as hell... lol1

    hoom wrote:

    Alrosa still not making much progress...
    https://2018.f.a0z.ru/04/04-6129085-dsc07870-kopiya.jpg

    What's the story with this one, experimental test bed or something?

    hoom wrote:There are pics of the new BSF boats tied up in Sevastopol but nothing seeming particularly interesting other than continued absence of the last 2.

    Hard to be present when you have to be on call 24/7 in the Mediterranean to "kalibrate" jihadists in Syria...
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    GarryB

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  GarryB on Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:28 am

    Smart move by Russia though, to Kalibrate the Caliphate...

    hoom

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  hoom on Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:44 am

    I just hope that section is not accessible by crew because that would be scary as hell
    *thump* thats the sonar on the left *thump* *thump* front of the pressure hull *thump* on the right.

    What's the story with this one, experimental test bed or something?
    Test of pumpjet propulsion but as far as I know otherwise a normal Kilo.
    But maybe we've uncovered the reason the repairs seem to be taking so long 'You can't leave. She won't let you.' Shocked


    Hard to be present when you have to be on call 24/7 in the Mediterranean to "kalibrate" jihadists in Syria...
    Thing is the first 4 only hung out off Syria for about a month before moving on to Sevastopol, these two must be close to 6mths.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:21 pm

    hoom wrote:.......
    Hard to be present when you have to be on call 24/7 in the Mediterranean to "kalibrate" jihadists in Syria...
    Thing is the first 4 only hung out off Syria for about a month before moving on to Sevastopol, these two must be close to 6mths.

    Well it's pretty obvious that they want to have cruise missile strikes available so those subs are parked in Tartus for the time being

    Once Syria cools down they will transfer them to Black Sea

    But I wouldn't be surprised if Navy ordered​ couple​ of brand new conventional subs specifically for Tartus down the road, same goes for surface ships

    hoom

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  hoom on Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:03 am

    Finally found visual confirmation the two have been docking in Tartous


    Edit: Hmm, doesn't seem to want to show, possibly doesn't like hotlink?
    https://syria.liveuamap.com/pics/2018/04/11/21643867_0.jpg

    hoom

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  hoom on Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:57 am

    Via Balancer Stary Oskol one of the new BSF boats is out in drydock, apparently work on the prop?



    Kilo props always look almost comically tiny relative to the fairly tubby hull.

    hoom

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  hoom on Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:46 pm

    Alrosa

    By the time they are done with whatever they are doing to the stuff in hull top there, the hull is gonna need an extensive time in drydock...
    Also worried by the continued open torpedo doors, it can't be healthy to leave them open & awash for a year or more No

    Meanwhile Russia looking at options for maintenance on the 2 stationed in Syria http://www.interfax.ru/russia/613052
    "There are three options for solving the problem: either returning the boats to the manufacturing plant (Admiralty Shipyards, St. Petersburg), or sending a floating dock to the logistics center of the Russian Navy in Tartu, or docking in one of the friendly countries of the Mediterranean, "he explained.

    According to him, "the third option is considered preferable from the point of view of economy of resources and resource of boats and is under consideration, especially since the navies of some countries of the region are armed with submarines of this and similar projects."
    Not sure I buy drydocking in a Med country, Algeria has Kilos but pretty sure they send them back to the Baltic for repairs.
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    Hole

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  Hole on Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:48 am

    Would be more economic to send a dry dock to Tartus. Because they will Need ne in the next decades there.
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    Isos

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  Isos on Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:17 am

    Suez canal and go vietnam or india. Or even in Iran where they can send specialists to work on the subs and show to iranians the new kilo class that they could buy. They can patrol around the middle east to show naval presence there and keep a look at US forces also.

    hoom

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  hoom on Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:24 pm

    Suez canal and go vietnam or india. Or even in Iran
    I think sending back to Baltic has to be a more likely option.

    Would be more economic to send a dry dock to Tartus. Because they will Need ne in the next decades there.
    I'm very much inclined to agree.

    Problem with moving a floating dry dock is does BSF have one spare/in good enough condition to risk on a lengthy sea journey?  Suspect
    I think the answer is no.

    Which leads to a 4th option I just thought of: Would it count under Montreaux convention if they carried a sub through to/from Sevastopol as cargo on a semi-submersible?
    And there is one of those that could be available: Project 22570 launched in 2015 & in North fleet

    https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/22570.htm
    "It was designed to transport Varshavyanka- and Lada-class [7FBTK: KILO SS and Petersburg SS] submarines. It will allow us to freely fulfill tasking and transport ships wherever they are needed." Freely – that is, in spite of sanctions. Now submarines, without heading into the open ocean, can travel within the country from the White Sea to the Baltic Sea, from the Baltic Sea to the Black Sea, and from there on to the Caspian Sea.

    Hmm, or rather than risk Turkey refusing passage/a storm capsize with a sub loaded I guess that would at least count as a spare drydock in good enough condition to go to Tartus...

    hoom

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  hoom on Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:25 am

    Apparently the 'famous' Krasnodar will be lead ship in Sevastopol Navy Day parade

    Thats gotta be a big ol love at Western Independent Media (see 'Hunt for Krasnodar' propaganda article series)

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