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    Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

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    hoom

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  hoom on Sat Jul 29, 2017 2:52 pm

    I've been pretty surprised & disappointed about Canada in recent years re Russia/Ukropia 404, made more sense when I read they have a lot of immigrant (& descendants of) Civil War Whites & UPA types out of Ukraine.
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    TheArmenian

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  TheArmenian on Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:23 pm

    Navy day is celebrated at every Russian Naval base.
    Tartus happens to be such a base.

    There will be a parade involving 7 ships including:

    The submarine KRASNODAR which never went to Sevastopol and is still lingering in the Med. sea
    The frigate Admiral Essen
    The frigate Pytlyvy
    A minesweeper
    etc.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:26 pm

    hoom wrote:I've been pretty surprised & disappointed about Canada in recent years re Russia/Ukropia 404, made more sense when I read they have a lot of immigrant (& descendants of) Civil War Whites & UPA types out of Ukraine.

    I don't think that Whites descendants would care especially since modern Russia is definitely leaning lot more into White than Red approach.

    But key factor are definitely UPA offspring, that war was relatively recently and those immigrants were some of most hardcore Nazis that ever existed and huge number of them was given a free pass in Canada.

    Fact that (as usual during Operation Paperclip era) there were no investigations or penalties for what they did, only additionally motivated them to pretend that they were "freedom fighters"
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    hoom

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  hoom on Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:37 pm

    The submarine KRASNODAR which never went to Sevastopol and is still lingering in the Med. sea
    Thanks for clarification Smile
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    franco

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  franco on Sat Jul 29, 2017 4:10 pm

    hoom wrote:I've been pretty surprised & disappointed about Canada in recent years re Russia/Ukropia 404, made more sense when I read they have a lot of immigrant (& descendants of) Civil War Whites & UPA types out of Ukraine.

    Not only Ukraine but also Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Croatia, Hungary, etc all because they were anti-communist in danger of the new post war governments. Skip to present and 1,400,000 descendants plus later and...
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  KiloGolf on Sat Jul 29, 2017 4:19 pm

    franco wrote:
    hoom wrote:I've been pretty surprised & disappointed about Canada in recent years re Russia/Ukropia 404, made more sense when I read they have a lot of immigrant (& descendants of) Civil War Whites & UPA types out of Ukraine.

    Not only Ukraine but also Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Croatia, Hungary, etc all because they were anti-communist in danger of the new post war governments. Skip to present and 1,400,000 descendants plus later and...  

    Being ant-communist is fair enough. Being anti-Russian 25 years after the end of the Cold War is retarded.
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    George1

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  George1 on Sat Jul 29, 2017 4:31 pm

    pls dont go off topic again all with nationalities issues and history. This topic is for kilo class submarines. If you want you can start a new topic in general chat


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    kvs

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  kvs on Sun Jul 30, 2017 12:23 am

    George1 wrote:pls dont go off topic again all with nationalities issues and history. This topic is for kilo class submarines. If you want you can start a new topic in general chat

    Actually, the reason for building these submarines is precisely the nationalities issues and history. Thanks to the cold war, WWII was never properly put in context and many criminals became state "assets" and BS narratives were established about the equivalence between the Nazis and the Soviets. This agenda-driven revisionism has laid the ground work for a new war on Russia. Unless this thread is all about some fictional boutique submarine building activity for its own sake the above tangent was not off topic.

    Whatever, no more posts on this nationalities and history from me in this thread.
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    hoom

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  hoom on Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:22 am

    George1 wrote:pls dont go off topic again all with nationalities issues and history. This topic is for kilo class submarines. If you want you can start a new topic in general chat
    Apologies, my bad Embarassed

    So on topic: laying down 2 simultaneously is pretty good, did they do that with the BSF ones as well?

    http://flotprom.ru/2017/%D0%90%D0%B4%D0%BC%D0%B8%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%B9%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B5%D0%92%D0%B5%D1%80%D1%84%D0%B816/
    Google translate wrote:The first two submarines will be delivered to the Pacific Fleet in 2019, in 2020 the shipbuilders will hand over the second pair of "Varshavianok". The delivery of the series is planned to be completed in 2021.
    So start 2 each year, 2 years to build each pair.

    Whats happening with the old Kilos? Presumably old ones are supposed to be retiring soonish, I know some have had recent refits, are they upgrades or just maintenance?
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  KiloGolf on Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:40 am

    hoom wrote:So start 2 each year, 2 years to build each pair.

    Whats happening with the old Kilos? Presumably old ones are supposed to be retiring soonish, I know some have had recent refits, are they upgrades or just maintenance?

    2-3 got a refit so they'll keep those for a while (one of them Alrosa with pumpjet in the BS fleet).
    There's still another 10 or so, I guess those will have to go.

    That's why I think they need to keep pumping 636s, moar kilos please. Kalina has high chances of going Russian (i.e. delayed for a decade, at best).
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    Kimppis

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  Kimppis on Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:47 am

    To me it seems that they're actually doing pretty damn will their SSK fleet.

    I mean they're going to get those 3 Ladas, right?

    So years before 2025, let's say 2023, they'll have:

    12 Improved Kilos
    3 Ladas
    = 15 new SSKs

    So at that point only something like 5-8 old subs will be remaining. Additional 6-8 new 636s would already do it. Or just wait for a while for Kalinas. They could actually increase the size of the fleet quite easily...
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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:29 pm

    Kimppis wrote:To me it seems that they're actually doing pretty damn will their SSK fleet.

    I mean they're going to get those 3 Ladas, right?

    So years before 2025, let's say 2023, they'll have:

    12 Improved Kilos
    3 Ladas
    = 15 new SSKs

    So at that point only something like 5-8 old subs will be remaining. Additional 6-8 new 636s would already do it. Or just wait for a while for Kalinas. They could actually increase the size of the fleet quite easily...  

    Around 7

    Granted do not count the first Lada that thing is never sent on combat duties it was just a prototype.

    Russian are building two lada's right now and it's unknown if they will build anymore (doubtful really if they would they would not have made more Kilos)

    The rest of the boats will be replaced by Kalina's no doubt

    JohninMK

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  JohninMK on Sun Jul 30, 2017 6:14 pm

    Is the total number of these classes operational at any time limited by the number of crews that can be mustered?
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Jul 30, 2017 6:28 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Kimppis wrote:To me it seems that they're actually doing pretty damn will their SSK fleet.

    I mean they're going to get those 3 Ladas, right?

    So years before 2025, let's say 2023, they'll have:

    12 Improved Kilos
    3 Ladas
    = 15 new SSKs

    So at that point only something like 5-8 old subs will be remaining. Additional 6-8 new 636s would already do it. Or just wait for a while for Kalinas. They could actually increase the size of the fleet quite easily...  

    Around 7

    Granted do not count the first Lada that thing is never sent on combat duties it was just a prototype.

    Russian are building two lada's right now and it's unknown if they will build anymore (doubtful really if they would they would not have made more Kilos)

    The rest of the boats will be replaced by Kalina's no doubt

    7 of what? Got lost in numbers here...
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  KiloGolf on Sun Jul 30, 2017 6:51 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:7 of what? Got lost in numbers here...



    lol1
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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:11 pm

    Electric subs the Russians operate that are active but were built during the 80's etc.

    About 7 old kilos still floating around in active service.
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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:13 pm

    JohninMK wrote:Is the total number of these classes operational at any time limited by the number of crews that can be mustered?

    kilos have around 50 crew members, The russians could activate all of them (including the reserve ones) the thing is why would they.

    You always keep part of your fleet in down time and the other part in active then switch them out.
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  KiloGolf on Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:20 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:About 7 old kilos still floating around in active service.

    what?
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:34 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:About 7 old kilos still floating around in active service.

    what?



    Sorry, I couldn't help myself... Cool cry
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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:15 pm

    Hail the lords Holy Kilos!
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    franco

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  franco on Sun Jul 30, 2017 11:32 pm

    Apparently 6-8 Kilos will get an upgrade and life extension.
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    hoom

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  hoom on Mon Jul 31, 2017 2:19 am

    That's why I think they need to keep pumping 636s, moar kilos please
    Problem is if they get too many Kilos now they'll have insufficient room for Kalinas/very slow build rate.
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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:21 pm

    hoom wrote:
    That's why I think they need to keep pumping 636s, moar kilos please
    Problem is if they get too many Kilos now they'll have insufficient room for Kalinas/very slow build rate.

    Unless Russia plans to increase it's none nuclear sub fleet, a move I think they should do.

    T-47

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  T-47 on Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:28 pm

    Making room won't be the problem. Second hand Varshavyankas will be in high demand in export market I assume. Specially in low budget but expanding navies like Bangladesh.

    And I agree with SeigSoloyvov, they should expand non-nuke subs. To give the nuke subs more freedom for long range voyage from home base.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:37 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    hoom wrote:
    That's why I think they need to keep pumping 636s, moar kilos please
    Problem is if they get too many Kilos now they'll have insufficient room for Kalinas/very slow build rate.
    Unless Russia plans to increase it's none nuclear sub fleet, a move I think they should do.

    Room should not be a problem and they could use some expansion, definitely

    They do have 12 fresh slots in Tartus, Syria that just became available.

    Building 4 Kilos (give or take) for Tartus Naval Base would be prudent. No need to hassle Black Sea Fleet every weekend, they have their own stuff to do.

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