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    Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

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    Militarov
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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  Militarov on Sun Dec 13, 2015 5:59 pm

    George1 wrote:How many Kalibrs an Imp Kilo actually carries?

    8 from what i am aware.

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  kvs on Tue Dec 15, 2015 11:39 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    George1 wrote:How many Kalibrs an Imp Kilo actually carries?

    8 from what i am aware.

    Is that launch tubes or total missiles on board. Seems like a small number to me.

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  Isos on Tue Dec 15, 2015 11:59 pm

    kvs wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    George1 wrote:How many Kalibrs an Imp Kilo actually carries?

    8 from what i am aware.

    Is that launch tubes or total missiles on board.   Seems like a small number to me.

    A kilo has 6 lunch tubes and carry 18 weapons wich are a mix of Kalibr and torpedos. The number of Kalibr carried depends of the mission. If you carry 8 Kalibr, you will have just 10 torpedos. Or it can carry 24 mines instead of the 18 torpedos/Kalibr missiles.


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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  Militarov on Wed Dec 16, 2015 1:18 am

    Isos wrote:
    kvs wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    George1 wrote:How many Kalibrs an Imp Kilo actually carries?

    8 from what i am aware.

    Is that launch tubes or total missiles on board.   Seems like a small number to me.

    A kilo has 6 lunch tubes and carry 18 weapons wich are a mix of Kalibr and torpedos. The number of Kalibr carried depends of the mission. If you carry 8 Kalibr, you will have just 10 torpedos. Or it can carry 24 mines instead of the 18 torpedos/Kalibr missiles.


    8 is standard load they carry from what i noticed in literature. In normal operations they carry 8 Kalibrs probably in 4 + 4 configuration (3M54 + 3M14) + torpedos.

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  kvs on Wed Dec 16, 2015 2:47 am

    Thanks for the clarifications.

    My problem with these numbers it that the sub's fire power lasts a few seconds and then it has to return to port.
    This seems to require many submarines for engagement.

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  Militarov on Wed Dec 16, 2015 3:06 am

    kvs wrote:Thanks for the clarifications.  

    My problem with these numbers it that the sub's fire power lasts a few seconds and then it has to return to port.
    This seems to require many submarines for engagement.  

    Well Improved Kilo is fairly small diesel sub after all, its main role would be to defend coastal regions, patrol in shallow waters etc. US conversion of Ohio class into cruise missile sub SSGN, carries 154 cruise missiles (7x22) in its vertical launchers but its gigantic compared to Kilo.

    Yasen for an example can carry 40 Kalibrs in its VLS. If Borei ever gets cruise missile carrying variant in future would carry probably over 100, depends how many they manage to stick to one of Bulava containers.

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  Mindstorm on Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:18 am



    I must reveal that still today i always remain disoriented by those kind of debates and the points around which develop.

    Instead of questioning in circle the opportunuty of a certain cruise missile amount selection i would ask instead a very simple and much more critical question : what other diesel-electric propusion submarine at world is today armed and capable to employ stand-off land attack cruise missiles (and potentially any other mix with anti-ship and anti-submarine models) with the range and payload of Калибр ?

    Where is an even only close similar capability in any foreign diesel propelled submarine of much more recent construction ?




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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  Militarov on Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:34 am

    Mindstorm wrote:

    I must reveal that still today i always remain disoriented by those kind of debates and the points around which develop.

    Instead of questioning in circle the opportunuty of a certain cruise missile amount selection i would ask instead a very simple and much more critical question : what other diesel-electric propusion submarine at world is today armed and capable to employ stand-off land attack cruise missiles (and potentially any other mix with anti-ship and anti-submarine models) with the range and payload of Калибр ?

    Where is an even only close similar capability in any foreign diesel propelled submarine of much more recent construction ?

     

     

    Well Israelis operate Dolphin-class which has land attack capabilities, rumons say even nuclear strike capable. South Korean Son Won-il class can use Hyunmoo-3 cruise missiles, those are ones i know about. Other diesel subs are mostly armed with torpedos, mines and anti-shipping cruise missiles.

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  Mindstorm on Wed Dec 16, 2015 12:37 pm


    Militarov wrote:....Dolphin-class which has land attack capabilities.....

    Even some version of "Harpoon" have land attack capability ,such as dozen of other models of foreign and domestic cruise missile models with different main roles ,flight profile and.........speed.

    The question relevant here, wanting to remain strictly within long range subsonic cruise missiles, is that a Dolphin class, at example, in order to obtain the possibility to employ anyhow less cruise missiles for submarine and with an useful range even only comparable - but still significantly inferior - to Калибр must mount a warhead (a nuclear one) with a mass less than half that of land attack version of Калибр and that discounting the much shorter salvo delivery times, flight profile variety ,radar and thermal signature and precision all in favour of Калибр missile Wink

    At even payload we talk here of systems with engagement range of two different class : almosty a two fold difference.


    Obviously even the "supposedly" military specialized western media circle avoid like the hell to point out similar wide technological gaps at theirs disfavor, gaps with military balance repercussion ,even at startegical level, orders of magnitude greater than the usual mountain of worthless gold plated, tax income eating, command,control and info dissemination systems that western designer are so quickly eager to promote in theirs meaningless power point presentations......obviously with the "situational awareness TM" marketing garbage word repeated like a void mantra Laughing






    magnumcromagnon
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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sat Dec 26, 2015 7:14 am

    Yet again Indian exercises (with Western military's) with export Russian systems have proven very valuable experiences. Just recently in October India had it's annual exercise "Mulabar" held in the Bay of Bengal, with counterparts Japan and the U.S., in which they exercised submarine vs. submarine warfare. Project 877/Kilo Class submarine manned by India managed to detect and "kill" a Los Angeles class submarine manned by the U.S., and the U.S. side was asked about that invent and they could not comment on that situation which is pretty damning if you ask me...

    http://vpk.name/news/146942_rossiiskii_dizel_vs_amerikanskii_atom_paltus_oboshel_losandzheles.html

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  max steel on Sat Dec 26, 2015 8:35 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:Yet again Indian exercises (with Western military's) with export Russian systems have proven very valuable experiences. Just recently in October India had it's annual exercise "Mulabar" held in the Bay of Bengal, with counterparts Japan and the U.S., in which they exercised submarine vs. submarine warfare. Project 877/Kilo Class submarine manned by India managed to detect and "kill" a Los Angeles class submarine manned by the U.S., and the U.S. side was asked about that invent and they could not comment on that situation which is pretty damning if you ask me...

    http://vpk.name/news/146942_rossiiskii_dizel_vs_amerikanskii_atom_paltus_oboshel_losandzheles.html



    Diesel submarines regularly come out well against Nuclear submarines but only when they work to their advantages. This is close to shore in shallow water where their quiet nature comes to the fore and the nuclear submarine can't use its advantage of speed and unlimited endurance.

    When you get into blue water conditions nuclear submarines can literally run rings around diesel subs as they can use their speed and endurance to engage and disengage at will.

    In blue water the nuclear submarine can sit back listening with their more powerful sonar array and wait for the diesel sub to go shallow and run her diesels or snort to top up Oxygen. They can then move in quick taking advantage of the situation and launch torpedoes at long range and then retire before the diesel sub can return fire.


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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  franco on Sat Jan 16, 2016 9:58 pm

    A series of six conventional submarines (project 636) will be built for the Pacific Fleet, Chief of the Russian Navy's shipbuilding management department Captain 1st Rank Vladimir Tryapichnikov said on Saturday, aired by the Russian News Service radio station . "In the perspective the Navy is making attempts and, evidently, they should find a confirmation in construction of another six submarines (project 636), which would go to the Pacific Fleet," he said.

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  George1 on Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:34 pm

    franco wrote:A series of six conventional submarines (project 636) will be built for the Pacific Fleet, Chief of the Russian Navy's shipbuilding management department Captain 1st Rank Vladimir Tryapichnikov said on Saturday, aired by the Russian News Service radio station . "In the perspective the Navy is making attempts and, evidently, they should find a confirmation in construction of another six submarines (project 636), which would go to the Pacific Fleet," he said.

    Excellent! Here is the page with the news
    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1683370.html

    I would also expect 3-4 for the Baltic Fleet and in that way all in total (15-16) Imp Kilo to replace old Kilo's


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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  George1 on Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:18 am

    Two submarines "Warszawianka" for the Russian Black Sea Fleet will be launched in spring


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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  max steel on Thu Mar 17, 2016 7:14 am

    Fifth and Sixth Improved Kilo Class Submarines to Enter Russian Service

    By the end of May of this year, two more Project 636.3 submarines are due to be in service with the Russian Navy. On March 2, the Russian Ministry of Defense announced that the fifth diesel-electric submarine, called Veliky Novgorod, will be launched on March 18. The submarine will be floated out in Saint Petersburg on the 110th anniversary of the Russian Navy’s underwater forces.

    The MoD’s announcement of Veliky Novgorod’s launching was preceded by a Tass News Agency report that cited a source in the Navy as saying the launch would be on March 17. According to the same source, the Navy will launch Kolpino, the sixth and last submarine of this project, in May. Both of these submarines will join the others in the Black Sea Fleet.

    The Project 636.3 submarines, built by Admiralty Shipyard, are an improved version of the initial Kilo class submarines, which entered service in the 1980s. The first of these improved submarines, Novorossiysk, was laid down in August 2010 and entered service four years later. Since then, three others – Rostov-on-Don, Stary Oskol, and Krasnodar – have entered service with the Russian Navy.

    Russian media have touted the stealth features of the Improved Kilo class submarines, noting that the Rostov-on-Don, in particular, “is believed to be the quietest [submarine] in the world.” The NATO Alliance appears to view the Project 636.3 submarines similarly, dubbing them “black holes” for their stealth capabilities.

    In November 2015, as Krasnodar was being launched, Adm. Viktor Chirkov, commander of the Russian Navy, stated that this type of submarine could be built for Russia’s other fleets too. Though Moscow at first did not seem interested in procuring more of the Improved Kilo class submarines after the first six, delays to the Lada class submarines (which are supposedly even stealthier) have caused Russia to change course and order six more Improved Kilo class submarines, which will eventually join the country’s Pacific Fleet.

    With the entrance of these submarines into service, Moscow has wasted no time in showing off their operational ability. In December 2015, Russia released footage of Rostov-on-Don taking part in Russia’s intervention in Syria. From the Mediterranean Sea, the submarine fired Kalibr cruise missiles at Islamic State positions in Raqqa, inflicting “significant damage,” according to Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu.

    Russia’s Kalibr missile launches from surface ships in the Caspian Sea, which occurred several months prior to Rostov-on-Don engaging the Islamic State, were described by U.S. officials to Defense News as being “really about messaging to the world and us that this is a capability that they have and they can use it.” The use of Rostov-on-Don in the Syria campaign to bomb the Islamic State sends a similar message

    Russia is intending to demonstrate to NATO its ability to deploy cruise missiles from both surface and underwater vessels to hit strategic targets in the Middle East theater, a region that had until recently been primarily dominated by NATO. Moscow is also demonstrating that it is strengthening its military appearance in the Mediterranean and Black Seas, in the face of what it sees as an expansionist NATO. The six Improved Kilo class submarines are an important component of that effort.

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  George1 on Fri Mar 18, 2016 7:18 am

    Fifth "Warszawianka" for the Black Sea Fleet into the water in St. Petersburg

    Подробнее на ТАСС:
    https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/2749905&usg=ALkJrhj1BttGbUttkjlv3ngG0fNlHqawCA


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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  Militarov on Sat Mar 19, 2016 2:45 am





    Roll-out of Kilo sub "Velikiy Novgorod" has begun at Admiralty Shipyards.

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  Book. on Sat Mar 19, 2016 7:08 am

    В Санкт-Петербурге спустили на воду подлодку «Великий Новгород»
    In St. Petersburg, launched the submarine "Veliky Novgorod"

    Published on Mar 18, 2016
    On the eve of the Day of Submariner and the 110th anniversary of the Russian submarine fleet in St. Petersburg launched their fifth diesel-electric submarine "Veliky Novgorod". Subscribe to Russian the RT


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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  Austin on Sat Apr 09, 2016 7:29 pm

    Indian Navy Upgraded Kilo Video , INS Sindhukirti


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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  Dima on Fri Apr 29, 2016 4:50 pm

    Why no one posted this?

    A 636 was damaged by the Polish pigs... an intentional ramming on orders from their murican masters?
    Incidents like these are what Russian navy need to avoid coz it delays operational deployments.

    7FBTK ‏@7FBTK Apr 27
    #russiannavy Kilo sub"Krasnodar" slightly damaged after collision with Polish vessel; being sent to Admiralty Shipyards for repairs
    https://twitter.com/7FBTK

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  franco on Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:58 pm

    Dima wrote:Why no one posted this?

    A 636 was damaged by the Polish pigs... an intentional ramming on orders from their murican masters?
    Incidents like these are what Russian navy need to avoid coz it delays operational deployments.

    7FBTK ‏@7FBTK Apr 27
    #russiannavy Kilo sub"Krasnodar" slightly damaged after collision with Polish vessel; being sent to Admiralty Shipyards for repairs
    https://twitter.com/7FBTK

    It was posted in Russian Navy News... more damage to the Polish sub which had to be towed back into port.

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  AlfaT8 on Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:52 pm

    franco wrote:
    Dima wrote:Why no one posted this?

    A 636 was damaged by the Polish pigs... an intentional ramming on orders from their murican masters?
    Incidents like these are what Russian navy need to avoid coz it delays operational deployments.

    7FBTK ‏@7FBTK Apr 27
    #russiannavy Kilo sub"Krasnodar" slightly damaged after collision with Polish vessel; being sent to Admiralty Shipyards for repairs
    https://twitter.com/7FBTK

    It was posted in Russian Navy News... more damage to the Polish sub which had to be towed back into port.

    Anything official, and how the hell did they find a 636 to begin with??

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  Austin on Sat Apr 30, 2016 5:21 am

    Denied by polish mod

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  Ned86 on Sun May 01, 2016 1:16 pm

    Does anyone know what kind of upgrade got Russian northern fleet Kilo class submarines"Kaluga" and "Vladikavkaz" ?

    I am curious about what did they upgrade? (sonar, weapons system etc...) or it was just overhaul with some minor upgrade?


    After looking at this video about upgraded Indian Kilo, I started thinking that maybe "Kaluga" and "Vladikavkaz" got same fancy LCD displays and same level of upgrade?

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  George1 on Fri May 06, 2016 2:25 am

    Russian shipyard to put afloat new sub for Black Sea Fleet on May 31

    The sixth Project 636.3 diesel-electric submarine Kolpino designed for the Russian Black Sea Fleet will be put afloat in St. Petersburg on May 31, a source says


    ST. PETERSBURG, May 5. /TASS /. The sixth Project 636.3 diesel-electric submarine Kolpino designed for the Russian Black Sea Fleet will be put afloat in St. Petersburg on May 31, a source in the Navy Main Command told TASS on Thursday.

    "The submarine Kolpino is set to be floated out on May 31," the source said.

    Russia’s United Ship-Building Corporation told TASS earlier that the submarine is expected to be put afloat in May. However, the corporation did not specify the exact date.

    In all, the Russian Black Sea Fleet is expected to receive six Project 636.3 (Varshavyanka-class) diesel-electric submarines. The submarines developed by the Rubin Design Bureau are under construction at the Admiralty Wharves Shipyard in St. Petersburg.

    The fifth Project 636.3 submarine Veliky Novgorod designed for the Black Sea Fleet was floated out on March 18. Both Kolpino and Veliky Novgorod submarines will be delivered to the Russian Navy before the end of 2016.

    As of today, the Russian Navy operates four Project 636.3 submarines, the Novorossiysk, the Rostov-on-Don, the Stary Oskol and the Krasnodar.

    In late 2015, the submarine Rostov-on-Don launched Kalibr cruise missiles from the Mediterranean Sea to destroy facilities of the Islamic State terrorist organization in Syria.


    More:
    http://tass.ru/en/defense/874137


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