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    Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

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    JohninMK

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  JohninMK on Mon Nov 02, 2015 5:03 pm

    Looks like there could be a problem, this is from last Thursday. A lot more at the link.

    Very early this morning, St. Petersburg blogger Ilya Kurganov (citing unnamed "navy officials") reported that Kilo-class submarine "Rostov-na-Donu" had arrived in Kronshtadt for unscheduled repairs of its electrical plant. According to the blogger:

       "...it began its scheduled transfer to its home port of Novorossiysk on October 16, 2015, but within literally a few days it was necessary to call for a rescue tug, with which it headed to a location where unscheduled repairs will be performed by technicians from Admiralty Shipyards, where the submarine was built."

    Interfax, citing an unknown source in the shipbuilding industry, confirmed that the submarine is in the Baltic Sea, but the source would only say that "it was forced to return to the Baltic for technical reasons." Finally, Admiralty Shipyards denied that any Russian Navy officials had contacted the shipyard to provide any technical assistance to the submarine.


    http://7fbtk.blogspot.co.uk/2015/10/why-did-rostov-na-donu-return-to-baltic.html
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    George1

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  George1 on Thu Nov 05, 2015 1:55 pm

    Diesel-electric submarine "Krasnodar" delivered to Russian Navy

    This is the fourth submarine of 636.3 in the series, it was launched in April. The ship lifted the naval flag.

    PETERSBURG, November 5 - RIA Novosti. Diesel-electric submarine of Project 636.3 "Krasnodar" passed on Thursday in St. Petersburg, to Russian Navy, the correspondent of RIA Novosti.

    "This ship - the fourth submarine in a series of upgrade project. The three ships have already completed the test and work out combat training tasks. The ship is the result of the work of designers, shipbuilders, and we have great pleasure in raising the naval ensign," - he said at the ceremony of raising Flag head of the combat training of the Navy Minister Viktor Kochemazov.

    He recalled that the submarines of this series will be based in Novorossiysk. "We look forward to when the ship joins the ranks of the Fourth Brigade," - he said.

    As the general director of JSC "Admiralty Shipyards" Alexander Buzakov, "today we can say that the construction of a series of submarines is on time, and this contract gives up early."

    Submarine "Krasnodar" Project 636.3 - the fourth in the series, built at the JSC "Admiralty Shipyards" for the Russian Navy, was launched in April 2015.

    Parent submarine "Novorossiysk" was handed over to the Russian Navy in August 2014, the second submarine "Rostov-on-Don" - the end of December 2014, the third submarine "Stary Oskol" - in July 2015. Until 2016, the plans of the High Command of the Navy, to be built six submarines of Project 636.3. All of them will be part of the submarine forces of the Black Sea Fleet.

    636.3 submarine project "Varshavyanka" refers to the third generation, has a displacement of 3.95 million tons, submerged speed - 20 knots, dive depth of 300 meters, the crew of 52 people. Submarines 636 modified the project have a higher (compared to previous projects) combat effectiveness. Their armed with torpedoes caliber of 533 millimeters (six units), Mines, percussive missile complex "Caliber". They can detect the target at a distance of three to four times higher than that on which they can detect the enemy. During his stealth boat the project received NATO name "black hole".

    https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=2&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20151105/1314097793.html&usg=ALkJrhigMjgv3vV0xSjfBpYrEnzOaOBaGg
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    George1

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  George1 on Thu Nov 05, 2015 1:58 pm

    Navy: 2nd Varshavyanka-class submarine will arrive on Black Sea Fleet at the end of November


    Final Varshavyanka-class submarines "Kolpino" and "Veliky Novgorod" will be launched in spring

    calripson

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    Varshavyanka

    Post  calripson on Fri Nov 06, 2015 1:55 am

    How many Kalibr missiles can the Varshavyanka class carry ?
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    artjomh

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  artjomh on Fri Nov 06, 2015 2:16 am

    calripson wrote:How many Kalibr missiles can the Varshavyanka class carry ?

    18

    But usually only carries around 4, with the rest being torpedoes.
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    Isos

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  Isos on Sun Nov 08, 2015 8:51 pm

    What is the range of a kilo class sub ? I know it's not the same if it sails sumerged or surfaced but in case of war it's dangerous to be surfaced while searching for the enemy.

    On wiki they said it's about 300 km submerged which is very small considering that early soviet subs were able to sail 20 000 km (see foxtrot on English wiki, I can't post the link I'm new)

    why don't don't they build it bigger with higher fuel/battery capacity to allow them to attack with the SNA's in ocean far from land bases ?

    For the norther fleet it would be better as they are far from England and North sea and they don't have enough SNA's to patrol in the atlantic, protect north pole from nato's SSBN, protect their SSBN.

    How would be the kilo used in a war ?
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    George1

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  George1 on Sun Nov 08, 2015 9:14 pm

    Isos wrote:What is the range of a kilo class sub ? I know it's not the same if it sails sumerged or surfaced but in case of war it's dangerous to be surfaced while searching for the enemy.

    On wiki they said it's about 300 km submerged which is very small considering that early soviet subs were able to sail 20 000 km (see foxtrot on English wiki, I can't post the link I'm new)

    why don't don't they build it bigger with higher fuel/battery capacity to allow them to attack with the SNA's in ocean far from land bases ?

    For the norther fleet it would be better as they are far from England and North sea and they don't have enough SNA's to patrol in the atlantic, protect north pole from nato's SSBN, protect their SSBN.

    How would be the kilo used in a war ?

    With snorkel: 6,880 miles at 7 knots
    Submerged: 400 miles at 3 knots

    I think their role isnt for big oceans, but for coastal defense roles

    http://russianships.info/eng/submarines/project_877.htm
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    zg18

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  zg18 on Wed Nov 11, 2015 2:55 pm

    Two Project 677 U/C , Admiralty shipyards

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    Militarov

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  Militarov on Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:29 pm









    Type 877EKM model at Armiya-2015.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  Militarov on Sat Nov 28, 2015 5:20 pm

    Kalibr-capable Kilo sub "Novorossiysk" completed 50-day repair cycle, returned to normal pier, Nov. 26.


    Austin

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  Austin on Sat Dec 12, 2015 4:21 pm

    Should give a good idea what upgraded Kilo is all about , Even though it belongs to IN , Watch this video please

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    Isos

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  Isos on Sat Dec 12, 2015 7:00 pm

    Austin wrote:Should give a good idea what upgraded Kilo is all about , Even though it belongs to IN , Watch this video please


    At 1 min 14s, It was just one torpedo ?

    If this is the case, it's pretty impressive Shocked

    There was a study from chinese where they said you need like 5 torpedos or 6 (not the real numbers, can't remember exactly) anti ship missiles to sunk an aircraft carrier. When I saw videos of torpedo's hit I belive 2 is really enough ...
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    Militarov

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  Militarov on Sat Dec 12, 2015 7:07 pm

    Isos wrote:
    Austin wrote:Should give a good idea what upgraded Kilo is all about , Even though it belongs to IN , Watch this video please


    At 1 min 14s, It was just one torpedo ?

    If this is the case, it's pretty impressive Shocked

    There was a study from chinese where they said you need like 5 torpedos or 6 (not the real numbers, can't remember exactly) anti ship missiles to sunk an aircraft carrier. When I saw videos of torpedo's hit I belive 2 is really enough ...

    Carriers have thousand of compartments that can be sealed, water draining pumps and over all they are huge. Its very hard to actually sink one, to damage, take it out of service etc sure, but to sink it you would need more than 1-2 torpedos. There is a reason why there exist nuclear tipped torpedos and anti-ship missiles.

    ult

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  ult on Sun Dec 13, 2015 4:02 pm

    It was confirmed by the Director General of the Admiralteyskie Verfi that all 6 torpedo tubes can launch Kalibr cruise missiles.

    https://youtu.be/zCNU3XImTOs?t=23m
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    George1

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  George1 on Sun Dec 13, 2015 4:58 pm

    How many Kalibrs an Imp Kilo actually carries?

    ult

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  ult on Sun Dec 13, 2015 5:14 pm

    George1 wrote:How many Kalibrs an Imp Kilo actually carries?

    It can carry 18 torpedoes/cruise missiles. So it depends. I guess it would need at least a couple of torpedoes for self-defense.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  Militarov on Sun Dec 13, 2015 5:59 pm

    George1 wrote:How many Kalibrs an Imp Kilo actually carries?

    8 from what i am aware.
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    kvs

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  kvs on Tue Dec 15, 2015 11:39 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    George1 wrote:How many Kalibrs an Imp Kilo actually carries?

    8 from what i am aware.

    Is that launch tubes or total missiles on board. Seems like a small number to me.
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    Isos

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  Isos on Tue Dec 15, 2015 11:59 pm

    kvs wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    George1 wrote:How many Kalibrs an Imp Kilo actually carries?

    8 from what i am aware.

    Is that launch tubes or total missiles on board.   Seems like a small number to me.

    A kilo has 6 lunch tubes and carry 18 weapons wich are a mix of Kalibr and torpedos. The number of Kalibr carried depends of the mission. If you carry 8 Kalibr, you will have just 10 torpedos. Or it can carry 24 mines instead of the 18 torpedos/Kalibr missiles.

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    Militarov

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  Militarov on Wed Dec 16, 2015 1:18 am

    Isos wrote:
    kvs wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    George1 wrote:How many Kalibrs an Imp Kilo actually carries?

    8 from what i am aware.

    Is that launch tubes or total missiles on board.   Seems like a small number to me.

    A kilo has 6 lunch tubes and carry 18 weapons wich are a mix of Kalibr and torpedos. The number of Kalibr carried depends of the mission. If you carry 8 Kalibr, you will have just 10 torpedos. Or it can carry 24 mines instead of the 18 torpedos/Kalibr missiles.


    8 is standard load they carry from what i noticed in literature. In normal operations they carry 8 Kalibrs probably in 4 + 4 configuration (3M54 + 3M14) + torpedos.
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    kvs

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  kvs on Wed Dec 16, 2015 2:47 am

    Thanks for the clarifications.

    My problem with these numbers it that the sub's fire power lasts a few seconds and then it has to return to port.
    This seems to require many submarines for engagement.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  Militarov on Wed Dec 16, 2015 3:06 am

    kvs wrote:Thanks for the clarifications.  

    My problem with these numbers it that the sub's fire power lasts a few seconds and then it has to return to port.
    This seems to require many submarines for engagement.  

    Well Improved Kilo is fairly small diesel sub after all, its main role would be to defend coastal regions, patrol in shallow waters etc. US conversion of Ohio class into cruise missile sub SSGN, carries 154 cruise missiles (7x22) in its vertical launchers but its gigantic compared to Kilo.

    Yasen for an example can carry 40 Kalibrs in its VLS. If Borei ever gets cruise missile carrying variant in future would carry probably over 100, depends how many they manage to stick to one of Bulava containers.

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  Mindstorm on Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:18 am



    I must reveal that still today i always remain disoriented by those kind of debates and the points around which develop.

    Instead of questioning in circle the opportunuty of a certain cruise missile amount selection i would ask instead a very simple and much more critical question : what other diesel-electric propusion submarine at world is today armed and capable to employ stand-off land attack cruise missiles (and potentially any other mix with anti-ship and anti-submarine models) with the range and payload of Калибр ?

    Where is an even only close similar capability in any foreign diesel propelled submarine of much more recent construction ?



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    Militarov

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  Militarov on Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:34 am

    Mindstorm wrote:

    I must reveal that still today i always remain disoriented by those kind of debates and the points around which develop.

    Instead of questioning in circle the opportunuty of a certain cruise missile amount selection i would ask instead a very simple and much more critical question : what other diesel-electric propusion submarine at world is today armed and capable to employ stand-off land attack cruise missiles (and potentially any other mix with anti-ship and anti-submarine models) with the range and payload of Калибр ?

    Where is an even only close similar capability in any foreign diesel propelled submarine of much more recent construction ?

     

     

    Well Israelis operate Dolphin-class which has land attack capabilities, rumons say even nuclear strike capable. South Korean Son Won-il class can use Hyunmoo-3 cruise missiles, those are ones i know about. Other diesel subs are mostly armed with torpedos, mines and anti-shipping cruise missiles.

    Mindstorm

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  Mindstorm on Wed Dec 16, 2015 12:37 pm


    Militarov wrote:....Dolphin-class which has land attack capabilities.....

    Even some version of "Harpoon" have land attack capability ,such as dozen of other models of foreign and domestic cruise missile models with different main roles ,flight profile and.........speed.

    The question relevant here, wanting to remain strictly within long range subsonic cruise missiles, is that a Dolphin class, at example, in order to obtain the possibility to employ anyhow less cruise missiles for submarine and with an useful range even only comparable - but still significantly inferior - to Калибр must mount a warhead (a nuclear one) with a mass less than half that of land attack version of Калибр and that discounting the much shorter salvo delivery times, flight profile variety ,radar and thermal signature and precision all in favour of Калибр missile Wink

    At even payload we talk here of systems with engagement range of two different class : almosty a two fold difference.


    Obviously even the "supposedly" military specialized western media circle avoid like the hell to point out similar wide technological gaps at theirs disfavor, gaps with military balance repercussion ,even at startegical level, orders of magnitude greater than the usual mountain of worthless gold plated, tax income eating, command,control and info dissemination systems that western designer are so quickly eager to promote in theirs meaningless power point presentations......obviously with the "situational awareness TM" marketing garbage word repeated like a void mantra Laughing






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