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    Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

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    zg18

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  zg18 on Sat Apr 25, 2015 6:40 pm

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    max steel

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  max steel on Sun Apr 26, 2015 9:24 pm

    I know little about military affairs but a naval man with whom I got briefly acquainted once told me the US went seriously wrong when it went for an all-nuclear submarine force. Conventional submarines are inherently much quieter and stealthier than nuclear submarines and they are now solving the problems of endurance that worked against them before. The Kilo class (which is what these submarines are) were a revolution when they first appeared in the 1980s and they have got progressively better. The coming generation of submarines that use a closed cycle system are going to be better still.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  GarryB on Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:33 am

    Conventional subs are also dramatically cheaper.

    With AIP and Lithium Ion batteries the only thing a conventional diesel electric sub will lack in the near future compared with a nuke is the high top speed.

    they are easier to sell on the international market and are perfectly adequate in shallow waters where big nuke subs lack manouver capability.


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    max steel

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  max steel on Mon Apr 27, 2015 1:28 pm

    DURING WAR THOSE NUKE SUBS WOULD BE USED TO FIRE SLBMs SO THEY don't need high maneuverability . Isn't it ?
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    GarryB

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  GarryB on Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:29 am

    Not being able to manouver properly in shallow waters could mean hitting a reef or getting stuck on a rock ledge, and in some cases not being able to defend yourself from external threats... very simply if you handle like a barge there are places you simply wont take your boat for fear of getting stuck or sunk.

    Being able to attack from such places and then retreat to the relative safety of such places can be very useful some times.

    Such things are irrelevant to SSBNs which will never get anywhere near enemy waters.


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    TR1

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  TR1 on Fri May 01, 2015 9:58 pm


    Actually proper construction rates.

    The series so far, time from being laid down to launch:

    B-261 - 39 months

    B-237 - 31 months

    B-262 - 24 months

    B-265 - 14 months

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    GarryB

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  GarryB on Sat May 02, 2015 12:57 pm

    Actually proper construction rates.

    The series so far, time from being laid down to launch:

    B-261 - 39 months

    B-237 - 31 months

    B-262 - 24 months

    B-265 - 14 months

    So what you are saying is that production of the first vessel is not necessarily an indication of how long later vessels will take unless there are some fundamental design changes needed for the second or later boats?


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    George1

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  George1 on Sat May 02, 2015 1:07 pm

    i think more important than time of construction is that Imp Kilo class submarines to be transferred to Black sea fleet
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    TR1

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  TR1 on Sat May 02, 2015 8:22 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Actually proper construction rates.

    The series so far, time from being laid down to launch:

    B-261 - 39 months

    B-237 - 31 months

    B-262 - 24 months

    B-265 - 14 months

    So what you are saying is that production of the first vessel is not necessarily an indication of how long later vessels will take unless there are some fundamental design changes needed for the second or later boats?

    As long as we are talking about something as well mastered by the industry as the Kilo, sure.

    Hoping for the same magic with larger nuclear boats, well........Smile
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    TheArmenian

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  TheArmenian on Sat May 02, 2015 10:23 pm

    TR1 wrote:
    GarryB wrote:
    Actually proper construction rates.

    The series so far, time from being laid down to launch:

    B-261 - 39 months

    B-237 - 31 months

    B-262 - 24 months

    B-265 - 14 months

    So what you are saying is that production of the first vessel is not necessarily an indication of how long later vessels will take unless there are some fundamental design changes needed for the second or later boats?

    As long as we are talking about something as well mastered by the industry as the Kilo, sure.

    Hoping for the same magic with larger nuclear boats, well........Smile

    Yeah, yeah. We know your style: you always stay conservative, safe and somewhat pessimistic about construction rates. If delays and slowness happens, then you say "I told you so" if things go faster, you say "I am pleased with what I see".
    Twisted Evil
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    TR1

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  TR1 on Sat May 02, 2015 10:32 pm

    I never doubted Admiralty's ability to make Kilos quickly.
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    TheArmenian

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  TheArmenian on Sat May 02, 2015 10:39 pm

    TR1 wrote:I never doubted Admiralty's ability to make Kilos quickly.

    That is a vey diplomatic statement TR1. I am impressed.

    Hey, you can use the exact same words/sentence about Sevmash in 2020, just in case they actually finish the boats they are supposed to finish Twisted Evil
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    TR1

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  TR1 on Sat May 02, 2015 11:01 pm

    I will be ecstatic if they do, but I see no reason to change my prediction regarding the big nuke boats for now.

    Hell, I'll be glad if I am off by even two boats.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  GarryB on Sun May 03, 2015 2:39 am

    If you were as careful and pessimistic with your negative predictions as you are with your optimistic praise when they do better than you predicted, I think you would get a lot less stick by our more optimistic members.

    It sometimes comes across as though you are hoping for failure just so you can be right.

    I perfectly understand... my father is the same when supporting the local rugby team... I think it is his way of coping with defeat if he never expects them to win when they do win it is gravy.

    Disappointment is part of life... deal with it... don't make it your world view.

    It is something I like about the americans... a setback is part of the learning experience... don't call it failure... it is only failure if you give up and you are more likely to give up if you never expect it to work out well.

    Of course Russia does not need to emulate everything the US does, like George Bush snr who said when he was secretary of state... "I don't care what the facts are America is not to blame!"... or the religious deep south reaction... a tornado just killed your family and destroyed your house and place of work... how do you feel?" "Well I feel this is a test from God and I am going to just rebuild my house and carry on."


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    George1

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  George1 on Mon May 04, 2015 10:23 am

    4 Imp Kilo submarines in testing (2 for Vietnam, 2 for Russian Navy). And 5 under construction (2 for Vietnam, 3 for Russian Navy)
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri May 29, 2015 9:59 pm


    any info how many Kalinas (677 with AIP) will be ordered for RN? and how many more Varshavyanka´s besides 6 for BSF?
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    George1

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  George1 on Sat May 30, 2015 12:47 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    any info how many Kalinas (677 with AIP) will be ordered for RN? and how many more Varshavyanka´s besides 6 for BSF?

    there isnt any order for Kalinas or further Varshavyanka
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat May 30, 2015 12:05 pm

    George1 wrote:
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    any info how many Kalinas (677 with AIP) will be ordered for RN? and how many more Varshavyanka´s besides 6 for BSF?

    there isnt any order for Kalinas or further Varshavyanka


    They talk about Aircraft Carriers and cannot order more conventional subs? 1AC is like 7-8 subs with AIP. Hope they wait for successful accomplishments of AIP tests and then like with PAK FA orders pirat
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    George1

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  George1 on Thu Jun 11, 2015 2:48 pm

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    Viktor

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  Viktor on Thu Jun 25, 2015 7:39 pm

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    George1

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  George1 on Tue Jun 30, 2015 2:02 pm



    _________________
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    Viktor

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  Viktor on Fri Jul 03, 2015 8:23 pm

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    Book.

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  Book. on Sat Jul 04, 2015 7:11 am

    Kilo + Igla

    nice thumbsup
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    George1

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  George1 on Sat Jul 04, 2015 12:55 pm


    these 3 submarines are already positioned in Black Sea fleet?


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    George1

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    Re: Project 877/636: Kilo class SSK

    Post  George1 on Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:32 pm



    _________________
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