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    AWACS-Airborne Command Posts of RuAF

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    Viktor
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    Re: AWACS-Airborne Command Posts of RuAF

    Post  Viktor on Sat Oct 30, 2010 11:26 am

    Is anything being done to put AWACS on aircraft carriers?

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    Re: AWACS-Airborne Command Posts of RuAF

    Post  GarryB on Sun Oct 31, 2010 4:17 am

    They had the Yak-44 but it is unknown if it has a future.

    Most of the snippets I have read about their proposed new carriers mention UAVs for AEW.

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    Russia’s new AWACS plane enters service

    Post  Russian Patriot on Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:47 pm




    Russia’s new AWACS plane enters service




    MOSCOW/ROSTOV-ON-DON, October 31 (RIA Novosti)
    Tags: Il-76, A-50U, Russian Air Force, Russia

    A modernized A-50U airborne warning and control system (AWACS) aircraft entered service with the Russian Air Force on Monday, an AF spokesman said.

    The aircraft has an advanced onboard computer, satellite communication and radar systems, Col. Vladimir Drik said.

    It now has the capability to detect various types of flying targets, including helicopters, cruise missiles and supersonic aircraft, he said.

    The Beriev A-50, based on the Ilyushin Il-76 transport, first flew in 1978. It entered service in 1984, with about 40 produced by 1992.

    The A-50 can track up to 10 fighter aircraft for either air-to-air intercept or air-to-ground attack missions.

    http://www.en.ria.ru/mlitary_news/20111031/168297656.html

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    Re: AWACS-Airborne Command Posts of RuAF

    Post  GarryB on Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:33 am

    I think perhaps there was a decimal point error there and the aircraft can track more than 10 targets.

    In exercises A-50s have simultaneously directed Mig-31 interceptors, Tu-22M3 bombers and submarines, the old system could maintain tracks on 50-60 targets so I suspect the number is at least 100 for the upgraded model.

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    Re: AWACS-Airborne Command Posts of RuAF

    Post  SOC on Tue Nov 01, 2011 1:38 am

    I think they're trying to imply that it can "track" (read: communicate with) 10 friendly fighters at the same time. That's the only way that tracking an aircraft for an air-to-ground role makes any sort of sense. Of course, if we're talking MiG-31s, that really means 40 fighters, as each jet linked to the A-50U can share info with three others!

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    Re: AWACS-Airborne Command Posts of RuAF

    Post  GarryB on Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:21 am

    I have read that the new upgraded A-50U can track 300 targets, so I guess it means support 10 interceptors/bomber operations.


    It is strange that they have not followed the same format with upgrades, in that they are upgrading the A-50M to A-50U, but the replacement A-100 is still based on a further upgraded Il-76.

    I would have thought changing to a wide body airliner body like the Il-96 would have made more sense.

    I still think a smaller AWACS aircraft is needed too, something like the Yak-44 that could be carrier capable and would be small enough for a much wider range of countries to buy. Places like Iran with rugged terrain benefit from aerial AWACS, but having a smaller, cheaper model would make a lot of sense.



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    Re: AWACS-Airborne Command Posts of RuAF

    Post  Austin on Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:32 pm

    Video : Upgraded RuAF A-50U AWACS

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    Re: AWACS-Airborne Command Posts of RuAF

    Post  Cyberspec on Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:31 pm

    GarryB wrote:I still think a smaller AWACS aircraft is needed too, something like the Yak-44 that could be carrier capable and would be small enough for a much wider range of countries to buy. Places like Iran with rugged terrain benefit from aerial AWACS, but having a smaller, cheaper model would make a lot of sense.


    I came across the following on Paralay's forum....

    From the annual report "Concern Vega".

    "In 2010 was designed and successfully commissioned preliminary design for the ship based AEW aircraft"

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    Re: AWACS-Airborne Command Posts of RuAF

    Post  Flanky on Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:02 pm

    Finally upgraded Russian AWACS. Now they have to work on JSTARS and their airborne ELINT systems.

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    Re: AWACS-Airborne Command Posts of RuAF

    Post  GarryB on Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:54 am

    "In 2010 was designed and successfully commissioned preliminary design for the ship based AEW aircraft

    How did I miss this post?

    This is excellent news.

    This aircraft might be helicopter based like the existing Ka-31, yet its timing is perhaps fairly well aligned with the upgrade of the Kuznetsov, which suggests perhaps nuke propulsion and EM cats along with a AEW aircraft that is to heavy to operate from the vessel as it is currently configured.

    Now they have to work on JSTARS and their airborne ELINT systems.

    They have plenty of ELINT designs... what they lack so far has been a JSTARS type, and considering they are only now working on a defence network that a JSTARS like aircraft can feed data into it only makes sense to make JSTARS like platforms now.

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    Re: AWACS-Airborne Command Posts of RuAF

    Post  Flanky on Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:34 am

    Well they probably need something like RC-135 based on the venerable Il-30 or maybe Tu-204?
    What is needed is a airborne based ELINT with up to date sensors and processing capabilities.
    Having a design on board is one thing.... having the design into actual production variant is another Smile
    They need to produce those planes - atleast 10 - 15 and have them placed in volatile regions like Kavkaz, Georgia, Kuril Islands, Alaska, Syria....

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    Re: AWACS-Airborne Command Posts of RuAF

    Post  GarryB on Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:11 pm

    Would depend on the size of the equipment and sensor arrays, but generally bigger is better, but also more expensive.

    Currently they use the old Il-20 and Il-22 for intel ops, and of course the naval Il-38 and Tu-142 for naval intel, plus the Il-86 and Il-96 as command posts.

    There are several new airliners they could base new versions upon... it is standard practice in the US to do such a thing as it boosts sales of such aircraft as a sort of economic subsidy to the plane makers too.








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    AWACS, JSTARS and EW aircrafts of RuAF

    Post  George1 on Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:30 am

    Beriev A-50
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beriev_A-50

    Ilyushin Il-80
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilyushin_Il-80

    Russia hopes to develop a new airborne warning and control system (AWACS) plane by 2016, the A-100 aircraft built on the basis of the Il-476 transport plane with the PS-90 engine and extended flight range.

    The new AWACS plane will have an advanced active phase array capable of detecting and tracking airborne and land-based targets.

    The Russian Air Force has around 20 A-50 Mainstay AWACS planes, based on the Ilyushin Il-76 transport.


    Last edited by George1 on Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:20 am; edited 2 times in total

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    Re: AWACS-Airborne Command Posts of RuAF

    Post  GarryB on Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:33 am

    The new Il-476 will likely be used as the basis for new AWACS (A-100) and new inflight refuelling aircraft.

    Hopefully a version of the Tu-204 family will replace the Il-20/22 in Elint and I personally would like to see a smaller carrier based AWACS aircraft developed that could be exported and would be cheaper than the A-100 but be useful enough that smaller airforces can operate it to coordinate their air defences.

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    The Russian Air Force’s Special Aircraft

    Post  Austin on Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:43 am

    The Russian Air Force’s Special Aircraft
    Aleksandr Stukalin, Kommersant Publishing House
    http://mdb.cast.ru/mdb/4-2013/

    Centre for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies (CAST)


    Apart from combat and transport aircraft, the Russian Air Force operates a fleet of special aircraft. These aircraft are based on the design of mass-produced planes, and made in small batches. The Air Force uses them for radar patrol and targeting, command-and-control, communication and signal relay, radio-electronic jamming, reconnaissance, and various other purposes.

    One of these special aircraft, the A-60 (1A2), being developed under the Sokol-Eshelon R&D project (the aircraft is equipped with a laser weapons system) was the subject of a separate article in MDB last year. The Russian Air Force aircraft procurement and repair program for 2013-2015, which was unveiled earlier this year, includes a whole range of other special planes and helicopters, such as the A-100, Zveno-3S, Yastreb, Foreytor-S, Mi-8VURT Forvard-M, Il-22PP Porubshchik, and Mi-8MTPR-1. Publicly available information about these aircraft is scant, but most of them have been mentioned, one way or another, in various open sources. The details gleaned from those sources can give a general idea of Russia’s special aircraft programs.

    The new Russian AWACS plane

    The most high-profile program from the above list is probably the A-100 (sometimes also referred to as the Premier program). The program is led by the Vega radio-electronics concern (Moscow) and the Beriyev Aerospace Research Center (TANTK Beriyev) in Taganrog.Its objective is to develop a versatile airborne radar patrol and targeting system for the Air Force, the Army, and the Navy. The program was launched in 2005 in accordance with a presidential decree issued on April 28, 2004.The TANTK side of the project began under the leadership of the center’s deputy chief Sergey Atayants.TANTK delivered the first set of early blueprints in 2006, receiving the customer’s approval. In 2007 TANTK won the tender for the Premier-LA project. The Vega side of the project is currently being led by the company’s chief designer Aleksandr Vasilyev.

    In 2008 Vega designer-general Vladimir Verba published a book entitled “AWACS systems. Current State and Outlook”, in which he outlined his vision of the future aircraft of that type. The book is freely available to any member of the public, but it is simply too large for this article to attempt even a brief summary. It has as many as seven pages devoted to the list of objectives the aircraft must be able to fulfill, in Prof. Verba’s opinion. Nevertheless, it is worth noting that according to the Vega chief, the new Russian AWACS plane must perform the functions of reconnaissance, warning, and command-and-control in the air, on the ground and at sea. It must also be capable of detecting and tracking mobile and stationary objects.

    The range of the specific strategic, operational and tactical tasks the new plane must be able to perform is very broad. In includes traditional air space monitoring and target designation; detection of the main groups of the enemy’s forces and their direction of attack; tracking non-strategic ballistic missiles along their entire trajectory; fire control for over-the-horizon anti-aircraft missile systems; coordinating radio-electronic warfare measures; and participating in search-and-rescue operations to retrieve pilots whose aircraft have been shot down. It remains unclear, however, whether and to what extent the views expressed in the book by Prof. Verba have been incorporated into the specifications and requirements for the new AWACS plane drawn up by the Russian MoD. So far, the ministry has released very few details about the program.

    The MoD unveiled the contract for the A-100 in September 2010 at a sitting of the Commission for the Modernization and Technological Development of the Russian Economy. A year later Col. Gen. Aleksandr Zelin, the then Commander Chief of the Russian Air Force, disclosed some of the details of the program. He said that the aircraft platform chosen for the A-100 was the Il-76MD-90A (Il-476) transport, which is entering mass production at the Aviastar-SP plant in Ulyanovsk. He also confirmed that the A-100 “will have capability against targets on the ground” (whereas the existing A-50 AWACS plane is only effective against targets in the air and at sea). Another major difference between the A-100 and its predecessor is the use of an active phased array antenna. According to Gen. Zelin, the development of that antenna had been completed by 2011, and the entire aircraft should be ready by 2016. “The chief of the General Staff has given his backing to the Air Force command on this matter,” Zelin said. “The Air Force has received the funding necessary to complete this project.”

    In 2011-2012 the government disbursed all the moneys due under the new AWACS program. There have been reports in the media that about US$230 mln has been spent , but the figure has yet to be confirmed or denied officially. Early in 2013, however, questions arose about the schedule of the A-100 program. Aleksey Mitrofanov, a member of the Russian Duma, even submitted an official query to the government and the Audit Chamber, claiming that the deadline for the completion of the project “has been postponed yet again” from 2015 to 2017 at the contractor’s request. Incidentally, only six months previously the developers of the A-100 insisted that the R&D phase would be completed in 2014. There were also doubts about the results of the program achieved so far, including its compliance with the customer’s specifications, the danger of the A-100 becoming obsolete even before it has been completed, and allegations that too little has been delivered for the money already spent.

    Representatives of the Vega concern were quick to reject any doubts about the company’s performance under the A-100 program – but some of those doubts may not have been entirely groundless. Be that as it may, the MoD has set up a special commission to monitor the program’s progress, lead by the new Air Force Commander Chief, Viktor Bondarev. In February 2013 Lt. Gen. Bondarev and a group of Vega specialists visited all the key companies involved in the program as subcontractors. According to Vega deputy chief Vartan Shakhgedanov, the subcontractors demonstrated to the commission almost all the key elements of the future AWACS plane, including the aircraft itself, the antenna cowlings, the automated workstations and racks of IT and control equipment, and the radio-electronic hardware components.

    The Aviapriborostroenie concern is known to be leading the development of standardized platform-independent inertial navigation systems for the A-100. The onboard communication systems are being developed by the Moscow Communication Systems Research Institute (MNIIS) under the Premier-BKSS R&D project. Another subcontractor is the All-Russian Radio Equipment Research Institute (VNIIRA, St Petersburg), which leads the Premier-VRL and B5 projects. Engineers of the Rubin Research and Production Company (NPP Rubin, Penza), which is part of the Aviapriborostroenie concern, were involved in the development of technological systems for dynamic replay and rapid decoding of flight information. The same engineers are now involved in developing a data processing ground station.

    It has been announced that using a combination of government financing and its own funds, Vega is approaching the completion of a project to develop a comprehensive test bench for various A-100 systems. In order to speed up the future joint state trials, the test bench will be used to replace parts of the flight tests with semi-realistic simulation for some of the software, ergonomics, and performance characteristics. As for long-range detection and identification of small targets and cruise missiles, these tests will be performed using the ERIK-1 standard radar measurement complex at the Air Defense Research Center in Tver, under the current proposals.

    The MoD expects that a combination of the A-100 and the new PAK FA fifth-generation multirole fighter will give the Russian Air Force an unprecedented reconnaissance, strike and rapid response capability. Also, the new Russian AWACS system will work in tandem with the new automated control system currently being developed by the Peleng Special Design Bureau (Yekaterinburg).

    Joint state trials of the A-100 were initially expected to commence in 2013-2014 , but it appears that they will have to be postponed as the whole program is taking longer to complete. Meanwhile, the Russian Air Force has commissioned TANTK and Vega to upgrade the existing fleet of the A-50s (which were built in the 1980s) to the A-50U specification (project Titan-U). The upgrade includes the replacement of the R-type radar system with the more advanced RM type. In December 2007 the first prototype of the A-50U entered joint state trials , which were signed off in November 2009 by the then Air Force commander, Gen. Zelin. The aircraft selected as the upgrade prototype was an A-50 with serial number 0083476298 and side number 37 Red. The new radar system (in which LCD displays have replaced the old cathode ray tubes) is lighter, providing for longer endurance of the whole aircraft, and has greatly improved automated workstations. The project to upgrade the workstations involved NPP Pubin. Also, the operators’ cabin is now equipped with a small lounge and a buffet.

    The first aircraft to be upgraded after the prototype was an A-50 with serial number 0043453577 and board number 47 Red. Its upgrade began in December 2008, and on October 31, 2011 the plane was delivered to the Air Force with a new state registration number, RF-92957. Another upgraded aircraft (board number 33 Red, serial number 0043454618, registration number RF-50602) was delivered in 2013.

    Other special aircraft


    A lot less information is available about other Russian special aircraft programs. One of these programs is the Zveno-3S, an airborne command-and-control and relay station that will be developed as part of the third stage of the Zveno system. [30] At present the government is selecting the main contractor for the Zveno-3S.

    Development of the entire Zveno program began back in Soviet times at the Gorky Radio Communications Research Institute (now known as NPP Polet, Nizhniy Novgorod, led by Yevgeny Belousov). The purpose of the system is control of the Russian strategic nuclear arsenal in emergency situations. The increased survivability of the system is achieved by using mobile platforms (planes or helicopters) with senior commanding officers on board. A single airborne command-and-control station of the Russian General Staff can control the strategic nuclear weapons operated by the Strategic Missile Troops, the Air Force, and the Navy. The system’s onboard communication station can maintain “simultaneous jamming-resistant exchange of information via radio relay, satellite, medium-wave, short-wave, VHF and UHF channels with stations on the ground, at sea, and in the air”. In recent years the MoD has been upgrading four Il-80 Zveno airborne command-and-control planes (built on the Il-86 platform). Meanwhile, NPP Polet has been working on the Zveno-2 R&D project, which aims to “develop and manufacture the 83T120 onboard system”. At some point in the future the Zveno program will probably be augmented by a new operational-strategic tier command-and-control and relay aircraft (codename Yastreb) , which is also mentioned in documents pertaining to the program.

    Another program, codenamed Foreytor, is mentioned in the list of airborne satellite communication stations for mobile command-and-control applications that have been (or are being) developed by NPP Radiosvyaz (Krasnoyarsk). In a report filed by the St Petersburg-based Inteltekh, the Foreytor-3-Inteltekh R&D project is listed next to Zveno-3. Another source reports that as part of the Foreytor program, the contractor is developing an onboard computer system “for an information and control system of airborne objects”. The system in question is probably a new set of radio equipment for relay aircraft, being developed to work in tandem or as part of the Zveno system. Previously, projects to upgrade the existing Il-82 relay planes (built on the Il-76 platform) were also led by NPP Polet.

    The Forvard R&D project, which aims to develop a new C&C and relay helicopter on the Mi-8MTV-5 platform, is also being led by NPP Polet under a contract signed with the MoD on December 2, 2007. However, both sides have failed to meet various deadlines stipulated in that contract, so its implementation will probably continue under an adjusted set of requirements and specifications.

    The Il-22PP Porubshchik, a jamming and aerial reconnaissance plane, is being developed under government contracts No 93032 of November 8, 2009, and No 459/ZA/2012/DRGZ of June 5, 2012. The contractor is the Myasishchev Experimental Machinery Plant (EMZ Myasishchev in Zhukovskiy, Moscow Region). As part of that program, EMZ is to upgrade three Il-22 aircraft in 2012-2013. Active jamming equipment was installed on the first of these aircraft back in 2011. Last year that plane, equipped with the L-415 complex, performed 18 flights as part of engineering flight tests. In 2011 EMZ received 210 million roubles in financing under this program; in 2012 the figure rose to US$14.5 mln.

    Meanwhile, the Russian Air Force is already taking deliveries of the Mi-8MTPR-1 jamming helicopters. In April 2011the Moscow Mil Helicopter Plant delivered one such helicopter (side number 95357) to an MoD unit in Vyazma. In September 2011 several helicopters stationed in Vyazma took part in the joint Russian-Belarusian exercise Union Shield 2011, which was held at the Ashuluk range in Astrakhan Region. The helicopters were tasked with the suppression of the adversary’s AA missile radars in the combat zone. Several Mi-8MTPR-1 helicopters are to be delivered in 2012-2014 to units of the 4th Air Force and Air Defense Command (Southern Military District).

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    Re: AWACS-Airborne Command Posts of RuAF

    Post  Austin on Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:20 pm

    A lot less information is available about other Russian special aircraft programs. One of these programs is the Zveno-3S, an airborne command-and-control and relay station that will be developed as part of the third stage of the Zveno system. [30] At present the government is selecting the main contractor for the Zveno-3S.
    Likely Zveno-3S will be based on IL-96 platform to replace the older IL-86.

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    Re: AWACS-Airborne Command Posts of RuAF

    Post  mack8 on Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:37 pm

    Very interesting stuff, thanks Austin.

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    Re: AWACS-Airborne Command Posts of RuAF

    Post  George1 on Mon Apr 21, 2014 3:04 pm

    Beriev A-50U

    http://www.airliners.net/photo/Russia---Air/Beriev-A-50U/2426438/L/&sid=16f1e3c57a8f676365f61122080ff4ab

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    Question about the future A-100 russian AWACS.

    Post  nemrod on Thu May 29, 2014 11:39 am


    Russian air force will receive A-100, a kind of super Awacs.
    http://www.redstar.gr/Foto_red/Eng/Aircraft/A_100.html

    I don't know much about this awacs. Does this aircraft have AESA radar ? VHF, X-BAND radar ? As US are well aware that their stealth aircraft are vulnerable to modern russian radar, in fact they will ask their fighters, and bombers to fly at low altitude, below the classical radar coverture.
    Will this super awacs be able to detect the B2 A lancer ?

    Thx.

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    Re: AWACS-Airborne Command Posts of RuAF

    Post  Werewolf on Thu May 29, 2014 2:05 pm

    B2 will never fly at low altitude regardless of what they believe about their enemies radar capabilities. In case of VHF low altitude like high altitude will not be a big difference since VHF band is reflected by ionosphere and by the earth itself and everything in between could theoratically be "spotted", of course there is much more to it, but that is about the sheme of VHF band.

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    Re: AWACS-Airborne Command Posts of RuAF

    Post  Mindstorm on Thu May 29, 2014 11:23 pm

    Werewolf wrote:B2 will never fly at low altitude regardless of what they believe about their enemies radar capabilities.



    Werewolf you should had worked for Pentagon , Northrop and CIA in the '90 years, because you would had spared them the several billions dollars and years necessary to deeply modify this already hyper-costly strategic bomber and to change its main flying profile to low altitude....... only in order to provide it with a chance to penetrate a part of URSS's IAD of the time  Laughing 



    From the CIA formerly classified "Soviet Forces and Capabilities for Strategic Nuclear Conflict Through the Year 2000"  pag. 367 - Strategic Defensive Forces -


    "In the coming decade ,however, Soviet Strategic air defense will be much more capable to engagé low altitude vehicles. As a result penetration by currently deployed US bombers will become much more difficult in particular in the heavily defended western URSS.
    If the B2 bomber and advanced cruise missiles achieve the desired level of reduced observability, using tactics appropriate to stealth vehicles they probably would be capable to penetrate most of the Soviet Union at low altitude. The capabilities of Soviet air defenses will place some limitations on operations of the B2 , however. "


    I repeat one more time, the real order of magnitude of the tactically relevant RCS of similar "stealth" aircraft and the laughable metropolitan legends circulating on them .....in particular on the net in the last decade , for the very high density of fanatical ignorants..... is entire worlds apart.

    Obviously the real technical requirements of weapon development programs of this kind and, even more, theirs CONOPS , as in the instance of the B2 "Spirit" strategic bomber, are always dictated by the former and never by the latter  Laughing

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    Re: AWACS-Airborne Command Posts of RuAF

    Post  nemrod on Sun Jun 01, 2014 1:50 pm

    Mindstorm wrote:

    From the CIA formerly classified "Soviet Forces and Capabilities for Strategic Nuclear Conflict Through the Year 2000"  pag. 367 - Strategic Defensive Forces -


    "In the coming decade ,however, Soviet Strategic air defense will be much more capable to engagé low altitude vehicles. As a result penetration by currently deployed US bombers will become much more difficult in particular in the heavily defended western URSS.
    If the B2 bomber and advanced cruise missiles achieve the desired level of reduced observability, using tactics appropriate to stealth vehicles they probably would be capable to penetrate most of the Soviet Union at low altitude. The capabilities of Soviet air defenses will place some limitations on operations of the B2 , however. "


    I repeat one more time, the real order of magnitude of the tactically relevant RCS of similar "stealth" aircraft and the laughable metropolitan legends circulating on them .....in particular on the net in the last decade , for the very high density of fanatical ignorants..... is entire worlds apart.

    Obviously the real technical requirements of weapon development programs of this kind and, even more, theirs CONOPS , as in the instance of the B2 "Spirit" strategic bomber, are always dictated by the former and never by the latter  Laughing

    Thx for your responses and articles. In fact Mindstorm you have the same conclusions as Pierre Sprey. He said Stealth technology never worked. Even during Desert Storm, in spite of the hype, as confidential US defence reports old iraqis radars spotted several times the F-1117.
    Moreover, if we add the fact that beside at least  2 F-117 were downed in Serbia, another B2 Spirit was also downed and crashed in Croatia. Leaving the myth of the B2 intact. A myth worked only for ignorants like I was, before Internet came, and evidently the congressmans, and taxpayers.

    Another question.



    If Vhf radars are enough to track the stealth, why do we need X-band, and L-Band ? If a vhf radar is enough to track F-22, and B-2, and could be used as CGI, and could guide SU-35, and Mig-35, why Russia will spend money for the cumbersome, and very expensive SU-Pak T-50 ? Is it worth to spend it ? Why this amount of money won't be spend to equip russian air force by Mig-35, and SU-35 ?

    PS: photo taken from Carlo Kopp's owner of Auspower.net.

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    Re: AWACS-Airborne Command Posts of RuAF

    Post  Werewolf on Sun Jun 01, 2014 1:58 pm

    VHF band radars operate in very long wave lengths meaning they can achieve a much higher resonance of LO objects but are not very precise, not precise enough on hundreds of km to locate the exact location of the object. They are mainly used as Early warning radars which are also called OHT Over the Horizont Radars, because the waves are reflected by ionized sphere and ground. On shorter distances like in Serbia they are accurate enough to determine the exact location to be used for weapon guidance.

    OHT/VHF band radars are spotters and X/L band radars are then used to directly "illuminate" at the direction where the VHF band radars have spotted something, a focused direction of L/X band radars uses lot of energy and has very good performance to locate in its narrowed and therefore more powerful operation to detect even LO/VLO objects.

    They need to work together on higher distances.

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    Re: AWACS-Airborne Command Posts of RuAF

    Post  nemrod on Sun Jun 01, 2014 2:41 pm

    Thx Werewolf.

    Just a few words about this filthy bastard of Voltaire. He is the reference of ultra-liberalism.  I know that many among you recalled only this famous Voltaire' quote

    I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

    Well, quote full of duplicity, the life of this crook is full examples like "do what I say, but don't do what I do", and used very ugly methods, because he was a true uggly.
    In this wonderfull video made in french speaking,  Henri Guillemin did a very relevant study about the life of Voltaire.


    The most notable quote of this crook is -I don't know if you are aware about this very famous quote, but not teached in our frencheese university, you guess why-:

    Un pays bien organisé est celui où le petit nombre fait travailler le grand nombre, est nourri par lui et le gouverne.
    "a country well governed is where the little number work the great number, and this little number is fed by this great number, but the little number governs the great number".
    This is exactly the doctrin of ultra-lberalism, Voltaire is one the father of human rights, women rights, uglly behaviour, colonialism, rascism, hypocrisy, and wars in order to be rich. This doctrin is the baseline of most of the western leaders. The only think that I regreat is when I was younger, Voltaire was presented us as nearly a half-god, pacifism, and in fact he was the complete contrary. No wonder why french republique invaded several countries, looted them. They looted this poor countries, not for the average frencheeses, but mostly for a small group of oligarchs, meanwhile most of the frencheese people lived in the poverty untill 1940. They began to live better only after the 50's not because of french revolution, but mostly because of the Soviet Union. Once Soviet Union collapsed, conditions of life started to decline everywhere in western countries.


    There are many great frencheese true and honnest thinkers, writters, and philosophs. For example Victor Hugo, Lamartine, Emile Zola, Robespierre, Jean Jacques Rousseau, Louis Ferdinand Celine, Jean Jaures, Jules Vales. Voltaire is not our friend, must not among our baseline, he was a simple ugly crook, not more, not less.

    GarryB
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    Re: AWACS-Airborne Command Posts of RuAF

    Post  GarryB on Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:45 am

    Moreover, if we add the fact that beside at least 2 F-117 were downed in Serbia, another B2 Spirit was also downed and crashed in Croatia. Leaving the myth of the B2 intact. A myth worked only for ignorants like I was, before Internet came, and evidently the congressmans, and taxpayers.

    Only one F117 was shot down.

    The other F-117 and the B-2 kill are conspirasy theories.

    If Vhf radars are enough to track the stealth, why do we need X-band, and L-Band ?

    X band is high frequency and also high accuracy and is good for terminal guidance for missiles because the antennas needed are small but precise against non stealth targets.

    L band is the frequency most digital datalinks operate in, so can be used for other purposes, but it is long enough to find smaller stealth aircraft like F-22, F-35, and more importantly stealthy cruise missiles and weapons.

    VHF radar requires large radar antennas which makes putting them in planes difficult or impossible and it is only new VHF systems with digital electronics and AESA design that have enough accuracy for reliably chasing stealth aircraft.

    why Russia will spend money for the cumbersome, and very expensive SU-Pak T-50 ? Is it worth to spend it ?

    Using their air force for defence NATO wont be able to operate stealth detecting VHF radar over Russian territory so will have problems detecting and tracking the PAK FA.

    Plus there is the obvious... the stealth of the PAK FA should render it safe from all current NATO Radar guided AAMs and SAMs... which is pretty useful.

    Jamming and decoys work best concealing small targets.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

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    Re: AWACS-Airborne Command Posts of RuAF

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