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    Russia: Space News and Discussion #2

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    GunshipDemocracy
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    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion #2

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu Mar 03, 2016 10:35 am

    Rmf wrote:
    , this thing will need radiators size of siberia to cool off, the weight of reactor and radiators and cost and fuel to propell all that - its vapourware!
    100% b.s.


    or  maybe not?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioisotope_thermoelectric_generator
    A radioisotope thermoelectric generator (RTG, RITEG) is an electrical generator that uses an array of thermocouples to convert the heat released by the decay of a suitable radioactive material into electricity by the Seebeck effect. This generator has no moving parts.

    RTGs have been used as power sources in satellites, space probes, and unmanned remote facilities such as a series of lighthouses built by the former Soviet Union inside the Arctic Circle.




    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_Specific_Impulse_Magnetoplasma_Rocket

    "Results presented to NASA and academia in January 2011 have confirmed that the design point for optimal efficiency on the VX-200 is 50 km/s exhaust velocity, or an Isp of 5000 s. Based on these data, thruster efficiency of 72% has been achieved by Ad Astra,[21] yielding an overall system efficiency (DC electricity to thruster power) of 60% (since the DC to RF power conversion efficiency exceeds 95%) with argon as the propellant.


    Mars in 39 days
    Acap.svg This section may require copy editing for an extremely long sentence. (January 2016)

    In order to conduct a manned trip to "Mars in just 39 days",[37][38][39] the VASIMR will need the kind of electrical power that can only be delivered by nuclear propulsion (specifically the nuclear electric type) by way of nuclear power in space.[40] This kind of nuclear fission reactor might use a traditional Rankine/Brayton/Stirling conversion engine such as that used by the SAFE-400 reactor (Brayton cycle) or the DUFF Kilopower[41] reactor (Stirling cycle) to convert heat to electricity. However, the vehicle might be better served with non-moving parts and non-steam based power conversion using a thermocell technology of the thermoelectric (including graphene-based thermal power conversion[42][43][44]), pyroelectric, thermophotovoltaic, thermionic, magnetohydrodynamic type, or some as yet undiscovered technology. Thermoelectric materials are also an option for converting heat energy (being both black-body radiation and the kinetic thermal vibration of molecules and other particles) to electric current energy (being electrons flowing through a circuit). In order to avoid the need for "football-field sized radiators" (Zubrin quote) for a "200,000 kilowatt (200 megawatt) reactor with a power to mass density of 1,000 watts per kilogram" (Díaz quote)[45][46] this reactor will also need efficient waste heat capturing technology.[47] For comparison, a Seawolf-class nuclear-powered fast attack submarine uses a 34 megawatt reactor, and the Pilgrim Nuclear Generating Station uses a 690 megawatt reactor.



    this 45 days trajectory is 16 km/s delta/v and you need to slow down so its much worse...
    its obvious some space directors are counting on dumb public to swallow this crap.  but now chief of rosatom is on the act omg its getting worse.

    NASA as well Smile

    max steel
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    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion #2

    Post  max steel on Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:01 pm

    Russian Beacon satellite set to light up the night sky: 'Artificial star' would reflect sunlight to illuminate parts of Earth

    1 Crowdfunding target for next stage of testing has now been reached
    2 Raised almost 1.8 million rubles (£17,365/$24,235) from 2,322 sponsors
    3 It will be launched from a Soyuz 2 rocket with help from Roscosmos
    4 Made of a reflective thin polymer film 20 times thinner than human hair





    The brightest star in the night sky is Sirius, known as the 'dog star' or Alpha Canis Majoris.
    But that could be about to change if a crowdfunded project in Russia takes off as planned later this year.
    Called the 'Mayak' or 'Beacon' project, engineers are hoping to launch a satellite that will become the brightest object in our skies, apart from the sun, thanks to a giant reflective sheet of material.

    The launch is scheduled for the summer and is expected to be taken up in a Soyuz 2 rocket, with help from Roscosmos, the Russian space agency.
    The team is planning to place the spacecraft in a sun-synchronous orbit 370 miles (600km) above the ground.

    This means it will always be in the path of sunlight, so will always be shining at different locations on Earth as it rotates. The small spacecraft will launch a giant pyramid-shaped solar reflector in orbit. The reflector is 170 square feet (16 square metres) in size and made of a thin polymer film 20 times thinner than human hair.

    The aim of the project is to promote space research in the country, and to make science and engineering more appealing to young Russians.
    The satellite itself won't serve a particular purpose, other than to prove what can be possible in the field.


    A previous proposal, which involved attaching a reflective panel of plastic to a cargo ship heading to the Mir space station, was designed to see if orbiting mirrors could illuminate cities or other parts of Earth by reflecting sunlight.
    The idea was that the mirrors could extend daylight hours for farmers, for example, reports Ars Technica.

    The Mayak project team recently announced it has raised enough money to undergo the next stage of the rocket's testing.

    Its target of 1.5 million rubles (£14,537/$20,320) has now been surpassed and as of Tuesday morning, the team had raised almost 1.8 million rubles (£17,365/$24,235) from 2,322 sponsors on its Boomstarter crowdfunding page.

    'We are sending a spacecraft into orbit that will be the brightest star in the sky, visible from any point on our planet,' project leader Alexander Shaenko, head of the modern cosmonautics course at Moscow State University of Mechanical Engineering.

    'We want to show that space exploration is something exciting and interesting, but most importantly that today it is accessible to everybody who is interested.' Students from the university are also taking part in the crowdfunded project to launch the orbital spacecraft.



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    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion #2

    Post  max steel on Sat Mar 05, 2016 6:27 pm

    SpaceX's rocket crash lands on a floating drone ship — as expected

    SpaceX successfully launched its Falcon 9 rocket into space this afternoon, but — as expected — failed to land the vehicle on a drone ship at sea afterward. CEO Elon Musk said the rocket "landed hard" on the drone ship. The mission requirements made a successful landing unlikely.

    THE ROCKET HAD TO SEND A HEAVY SATELLITE INTO A HIGH ORBIT

    This was SpaceX's fourth attempt to land the Falcon 9 post-launch on an autonomous drone ship floating in the ocean. All of the previous sea landings failed too, though the third attempt came very close. The company had low hopes of a successful landing from the start of this mission, since the rocket had to send a heavy satellite into a high orbit. That requires a lot of fuel for the launch itself, so there wasn't much fuel left for the rocket's return to Earth and powered landing.

    So far, SpaceX has only been able to land its Falcon 9 on solid ground, which it did for the first time in December. Ground landings are much easier than ones at sea; the rocket touches down on a large expanse of immobile land, as opposed to a tiny ship floating on the ocean. Still, SpaceX will keep trying to perfect its ocean landings, since ground landings aren't even possible for some missions. Landing at sea requires less fuel, so the technique is a suitable option for missions that require the rocket to travel at especially high speeds.

    Despite the failed landing, today's SpaceX launch still accomplished its primary goal of sending a telecommunications satellite into space for the company's client, SES. The SES-9 satellite was dropped off at high altitude and will use its own propulsion to travel to its intended orbit. Eventually, SES-9 will sit at 22,000 miles above the equator, providing communications service to Northeast Asia, South Asia, and Indonesia, according to SES.

    SpaceX does have another chance coming up to try to land its Falcon 9 again. The company will be launching a cargo resupply mission to the International Space Station in a couple weeks for NASA. It's not clear if SpaceX will attempt to land on ground or at sea, but Musk says the mission has a "good chance" of sticking the landing.

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    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion #2

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sat Mar 05, 2016 6:49 pm

    max steel wrote:SpaceX's rocket crash lands on a floating drone ship — as expected

    SpaceX successfully launched its Falcon 9 rocket into space this afternoon, but — as expected — failed to land the vehicle on a drone ship at sea afterward. CEO Elon Musk said the rocket "landed hard" on the drone ship. The mission requirements made a successful landing unlikely.

    THE ROCKET HAD TO SEND A HEAVY SATELLITE INTO A HIGH ORBIT

    This was SpaceX's fourth attempt to land the Falcon 9 post-launch on an autonomous drone ship floating in the ocean. All of the previous sea landings failed too, though the third attempt came very close. The company had low hopes of a successful landing from the start of this mission, since the rocket had to send a heavy satellite into a high orbit. That requires a lot of fuel for the launch itself, so there wasn't much fuel left for the rocket's return to Earth and powered landing.

    So far, SpaceX has only been able to land its Falcon 9 on solid ground, which it did for the first time in December. Ground landings are much easier than ones at sea; the rocket touches down on a large expanse of immobile land, as opposed to a tiny ship floating on the ocean. Still, SpaceX will keep trying to perfect its ocean landings, since ground landings aren't even possible for some missions. Landing at sea requires less fuel, so the technique is a suitable option for missions that require the rocket to travel at especially high speeds.

    Despite the failed landing, today's SpaceX launch still accomplished its primary goal of sending a telecommunications satellite into space for the company's client, SES. The SES-9 satellite was dropped off at high altitude and will use its own propulsion to travel to its intended orbit. Eventually, SES-9 will sit at 22,000 miles above the equator, providing communications service to Northeast Asia, South Asia, and Indonesia, according to SES.

    SpaceX does have another chance coming up to try to land its Falcon 9 again. The company will be launching a cargo resupply mission to the International Space Station in a couple weeks for NASA. It's not clear if SpaceX will attempt to land on ground or at sea, but Musk says the mission has a "good chance" of sticking the landing.

    What does SpaceX have to do with Russian space news?

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    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion #2

    Post  Werewolf on Sat Mar 05, 2016 10:15 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    What does SpaceX have to do with Russian space news?

    Trying to win the Spacerace which was lost over two decades ago.

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    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion #2

    Post  Vann7 on Sun Mar 06, 2016 7:54 am



    I always had the idea for a long time of , Russia deploying a big mirror in space orbit and use it
    to manipulate the weather in Russia. To allow Russia experience a much better weather ,by
    radiating the sun light on its territory on winters. if done big enough and efficient enough ,
    with enough research and funding and done right , in the right time.. then it should be very possible for a nation like Russia to totally change its cold weather and turn Russia into a more
    warmer nation ,with smaller winters. SOmething that can really benefit the Russian agriculture..
    but also Russia tourism ,could create many perfect days in Russia with clear day or nights.

    The posibilities are endless the mirror could be used for example to weaken hurricanes or to
    fix bad weather.

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    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion #2

    Post  OminousSpudd on Sun Mar 06, 2016 9:42 am

    Vann7 wrote:

    I always had the idea for a long time of , Russia deploying a big mirror in space orbit and use it
    to manipulate the weather in Russia. To allow Russia experience a much better weather ,by
    radiating the sun light on its territory on winters. if done big enough and efficient enough ,
    with enough research and funding and done right , in the right time.. then it should be very possible for a nation like Russia to totally change its cold weather and turn Russia into a more
    warmer nation ,with smaller winters.  SOmething that can really benefit the Russian agriculture..
    but also Russia tourism ,could create many perfect days in Russia with clear day or nights.

    The posibilities are endless the mirror could be used for example to weaken hurricanes or to
    fix bad weather.  

    I think that'd cause ecological disaster on a massive scale. One does not simply muck up the seasons.

    Werewolf
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    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion #2

    Post  Werewolf on Sun Mar 06, 2016 10:31 am

    Sounds like a villian plan from some cartoon.

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    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion #2

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Mar 06, 2016 12:44 pm

    In Russia they managed to print the satellite on a 3D printer

    http://www.gizmonews.ru/2016/03/02/v-rossii-udalos-napechatat-sputnik-na-3d-printere/

    Specialists from Tomsk Polytechnic University have managed to print the satellite on a 3D printer. Spacecraft "TOMSK-TPU-120" will be sent to Baikonur, then it will take on Board the ISS on a cargo ship "Progress MS-02" and on March 31 will launch from the station.

    3DPrinted in Tomsk, the device has dimensions in mm 300х100х100 and run it will be during the next spacewalk. This is done for testing of new materials not previously tested in space. The altitude of the orbit will be 400 km and work in space, it will be about six months. It is expected that in the future technology of 3D printing small satellites will be in great demand. The design of the nanosatellite was created by specialists of the scientific-educational center "Modern production technologies" TPU. The materials used were created by scientists TPU together with employees of Institute of strength physics and materials science SB RAS.

    All the components of the "TOMSK-TPU-120" authorized by the Russian Federal space Agency. Mainly used plastic, and the battery pack is manufactured by the method of slip 3D printing Zirconia ceramic.






    Werewolf wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    What does SpaceX have to do with Russian space news?
    Trying to win the Spacerace which was lost over two decades ago.

    SpaceX's rocket crash lands on a floating drone ship — as expected



    love the bolded part Smile

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    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion #2

    Post  Vann7 on Sun Mar 06, 2016 5:56 pm

    OminousSpudd wrote:
    Vann7 wrote:

    I always had the idea for a long time of , Russia deploying a big mirror in space orbit and use it
    to manipulate the weather in Russia. To allow Russia experience a much better weather ,by
    radiating the sun light on its territory on winters. if done big enough and efficient enough ,
    with enough research and funding and done right , in the right time.. then it should be very possible for a nation like Russia to totally change its cold weather and turn Russia into a more
    warmer nation ,with smaller winters.  SOmething that can really benefit the Russian agriculture..
    but also Russia tourism ,could create many perfect days in Russia with clear day or nights.

    The posibilities are endless the mirror could be used for example to weaken hurricanes or to
    fix bad weather.  

    I think that'd cause ecological disaster on a massive scale. One does not simply muck up the seasons.

    Not really . Im speaking about creating an highly reflective surface in space of a very huge
    dimension. it could be just a giant Aerostat  covered by super resistant tin foil with a tiny engine to control its orbit,and all that it will do is simply use the same mother nature ,the sun  light and direct some of it to some major zones in Russia more warmer and greener and perfect days.
    So example to a special event in Russia ,like sport event ,or parade. or for agriculture. Where is the destruction? Is nothing new of what the earth receive,is the same Sun light being used with more efficiency to your advantage. it will be similar to having solar panels in your house ,used to keep your house warmer ,but on a bigger scale. instead of just one house , to do it a major zone in your country. lets say Urals in Russia. Such kind of simple technology could truly be
    game changing for the Russia weather , and help Russians at will get perfect clear days many times . It will also help to clean the air too , since when you warm the air ,the dust and dense
    smog go away.  It will be ideal for China too ,for cleaning its environment and that all those toxic do not stay floating in air.

    if the whole thing ..lets call it ,instead of a solar panel ,a solar space system.
    If developed well ,through testing and more testing ,it could allow Russia one day to become
    no longer a cold place most of the year ,but to have the weather more closer to LAtin America ,
    that it is green most of the time and there is snow and winter but only on the high mountains
    in the places no one live ,and in the cities a more better weather.

    im fully aware the earth weather changes in some parts of the planet could affect the weather in other parts.. and hurricanes are formed for the over heat of zone zones.. but if it is done correctly it will be not a problem. The use of Science to improve weather is a natural way of
    development. is no different of the use of science to make people older look younger. Manipulating the nature is an inevitable future for science. and this is nothing new.. already Russia have been doing that for decades . they can provoke rain to happen earlier ,throwing special ice crystals over already formed clouds. this is nothing shocking.. just science at work.  
    And creating an artificial mini "sun" /or better call it reflectors in space , will be a natural thing
    to do ,to take a more efficient advantage of the free energy that provides the nature.

    As a bonus ,the reflectors in space ,will illuminate too the nights in some zones in Russia ,
    it will looks prettier with more clear nights if not completely turn night into day. it will be
    very useful technology with endless potential .

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    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion #2

    Post  GarryB on Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:42 am

    There are a few problems with a very large mirror in space to warm up an area on the ground... the obvious one is orbital speeds...

    to maintain height in orbit a craft needs to move at the required speed... if it moves slower it will fall to a lower orbit... if it moves faster it will move up to a higher orbit until it reaches escape velocity in which case it will leave earth orbit forever and move into open space.

    A large object is a large target and a very large object in orbit means it will get hit a lot... if it is large then the centre is moving at the right speed for its altitude but the lower portion and upper portion of the craft would not be moving at the same speed as objects in that altitude... objects at the altitude of the lower portion of the sphere or shape will be travelling slower than the rest of the vehicle so the vehicle will be ploughing through debris ahead of the rest of the craft and of course the top of the vehicle will be getting hit from behind by faster moving material in a higher orbit... it would not last a day and would be shredded.

    An object dozens of kms across would appear relatively small in orbit and would not add that much heat to the ground... more light... sure, but not the intense heat as you get from direct sunlight...


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    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion #2

    Post  Svyatoslavich on Mon Mar 07, 2016 11:54 pm

    Vann7 wrote:Where is the destruction? Is nothing new of what the earth receive,is the same Sun light being used with more efficiency to your advantage. it will be similar to having solar panels in your house ,used to keep your house warmer ,but on a bigger scale. instead of just one house , to do it a major zone in your country. lets say Urals in Russia.
    You really think this would have no environmental effect? Russia's cold climate is not "bad", thousands of plants, animals and microbiota are perfectly adapted to it, change it in such a drastic way and they will mostly die. Humans have adapted to living in it for some thousand years, also, which is way easier and less harmful to other forms of life.

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    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion #2

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Tue Mar 08, 2016 12:13 am

    Svyatoslavich wrote:
    Vann7 wrote:Where is the destruction? Is nothing new of what the earth receive,is the same Sun light being used with more efficiency to your advantage. it will be similar to having solar panels in your house ,used to keep your house warmer ,but on a bigger scale. instead of just one house , to do it a major zone in your country. lets say Urals in Russia.
    You really think this would have no environmental effect? Russia's cold climate is not "bad", thousands of plants, animals and microbiota are perfectly adapted to it, change it in such a drastic way and they will mostly die. Humans have adapted to living in it for some thousand years, also, which is way easier and less harmful to other forms of life.

    True but why would you assume that in Russia there are no people with proper science background to assess it ?
    We also do not know about real objective of this project. What if this is test of military technology o rbetter dual use? or climate weapon?

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    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion #2

    Post  Rmf on Thu Mar 10, 2016 11:16 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    What does SpaceX have to do with Russian space news?

    Trying to win the Spacerace which was lost over two decades ago.

    well they are beating russians in their own game, and thats whole point of spaceX , after 2000s and many cancelled programs in USA, after they started buying russian engines , Elon got some scientists and workers together and started spacex , their goal was to have engine with lowest cost per tonn of thrust , not best isp ,not high thrust or whatever, no records , nothing revolutionary (thus expencive), just get the cost down , that means no bueracracy , means simplicity ,many engines for easy mass production,and low weight, if it takes more fuel to launch its not a problem fuel today is 5% of total launch cost ....
    They have already killed zenit ,now they go after proton with falcon heavy , and with dragon capsule ready they will kill soyuz.

    Not only that they will kill ULA big american space conglomerate -lockheed and boeing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Launch_Alliance who held monopoly in USA. That forced ULA  to get their congresman to fund new super-heavy launcher, republican and democrat together affraid , this launcher is amazingly protected from cancellation ,if anyone watched its own saga i personally was amazed how much funds its getting even more then Nasa demanded in certain years, it will be expencive but it will mean america can do thing in space russia cannot for decades ,if ever.

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    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion #2

    Post  Big_Gazza on Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:25 am

    Rmf wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    What does SpaceX have to do with Russian space news?

    Trying to win the Spacerace which was lost over two decades ago.

    well they are beating russians in their own game, and thats whole point of spaceX , after 2000s and many cancelled programs in USA, after they started buying russian engines , Elon got some scientists and workers together and started spacex , their goal was to have engine with lowest cost per tonn of thrust , not best isp ,not high thrust or whatever, no records , nothing revolutionary (thus expencive), just get the cost down , that means no bueracracy , means simplicity ,many engines for easy mass production,and low weight, if it takes more fuel to launch its not a problem fuel today is 5% of total launch cost ....
    They have already killed zenit ,now they go after proton with falcon heavy , and with dragon capsule ready they will kill soyuz.

    Not only that they will kill ULA big american space conglomerate -lockheed and boeing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Launch_Alliance who held monopoly in USA. That forced ULA  to get their congresman to fund new super-heavy launcher, republican and democrat together  affraid , this launcher is amazingly protected from cancellation ,if anyone watched its own saga i personally was amazed how much funds its getting even more then Nasa demanded in certain years, it will be expencive but it will mean america can do thing in space russia cannot for decades ,if ever.

    FFS I've had enough of this constant spamming and BS....

    If Musk had access to better engines he would use them.  As it is, while the F9 is shaping up as good launcher, its nothing special (though mindless SpaceX groupie fan-boyz fiddling with themselves in moms basement might disagree). and his reuseabilty scheme is seriously limited and is unlikely to be reliable in the long run.  A horizontal fly-back booster powered by a combo of air-breathing engines for take off and cruising, and rocket engines for ascent to 2nd stage launch is probably the optimum, but winged fly-back booster (like Baikal concept) are the next best option, and will readily leverage off current technological progress on UAV and computerized autonomous flight controls.

    Zenit was wounded because of Ukropistani incompetence leading to poor reliability, and then killed outright by Maidan Nazi stupidity...

    Proton will be killed by FH?????  Proton will fly as long as Russia needs to launch heavy birds.  As long as Khrunichev can sort out their manufacturing, QA/QC and human error issues, they have plenty of scope for sharpening the pencil (Proton costs for federal payloads are a fraction of commercial ILS prices).

    ULA will be killed by Musk????  Sorry, but now you have outed yourself as a foolish fan-boi....

    Russia will develop a SHLV when they are ready, and in the great scheme of things, keeping up with grandiose US plans (that will come to naught due to the future machinations of the increasingly dsyfunctional Yankistani political system) is a fools crusade with no real-world payoff  Keep in mind that sending manned missions to Moon or Mars is nothing more than a giant PR exercise for geo-political purposes (forget the garbage about "science") and represent a colossal sink of badly needed resources.  Once the costs become clear, the Uh'Murican political whores will receive orders from Wall Street to pump cash into keeping the US Ponzi Scheme afloat at all costs, and interplanetary missions will be dumped....

    Now be off with you, and cease this endless vapid, puerile, Russo-phobic tirade and undisguised Musk-worship...

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    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion #2

    Post  x_54_u43 on Fri Mar 11, 2016 3:06 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:

    FFS I've had enough of this constant spamming and BS....

    If Musk had access to better engines he would use them.  As it is, while the F9 is shaping up as good launcher, its nothing special (though mindless SpaceX groupie fan-boyz fiddling with themselves in moms basement might disagree). and his reuseabilty scheme is seriously limited and is unlikely to be reliable in the long run.  A horizontal fly-back booster powered by a combo of air-breathing engines for take off and cruising, and rocket engines for ascent to 2nd stage launch is probably the optimum, but winged fly-back booster (like Baikal concept) are the next best option, and will readily leverage off current technological progress on UAV and computerized autonomous flight controls.

    Zenit was wounded because of Ukropistani incompetence leading to poor reliability, and then killed outright by Maidan Nazi stupidity...

    Proton will be killed by FH?????  Proton will fly as long as Russia needs to launch heavy birds.  As long as Khrunichev can sort out their manufacturing, QA/QC and human error issues, they have plenty of scope for sharpening the pencil (Proton costs for federal payloads are a fraction of commercial ILS prices).

    ULA will be killed by Musk????  Sorry, but now you have outed yourself as a foolish fan-boi....

    Russia will develop a SHLV when they are ready, and in the great scheme of things, keeping up with grandiose US plans (that will come to naught due to the future machinations of the increasingly dsyfunctional Yankistani political system) is a fools crusade with no real-world payoff  Keep in mind that sending manned missions to Moon or Mars is nothing more than a giant PR exercise for geo-political purposes (forget the garbage about "science") and represent a colossal sink of badly needed resources.  Once the costs become clear, the Uh'Murican political whores will receive orders from Wall Street to pump cash into keeping the US Ponzi Scheme afloat at all costs, and interplanetary missions will be dumped....

    Now be off with you, and cease this endless vapid, puerile, Russo-phobic tirade and undisguised Musk-worship...

    I bet if Russia went to Mars first, it would cease being a giant PR exercise for you.

    russia russia russia

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    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion #2

    Post  kvs on Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:17 am

    x_54_u43 wrote:
    Big_Gazza wrote:

    FFS I've had enough of this constant spamming and BS....

    If Musk had access to better engines he would use them.  As it is, while the F9 is shaping up as good launcher, its nothing special (though mindless SpaceX groupie fan-boyz fiddling with themselves in moms basement might disagree). and his reuseabilty scheme is seriously limited and is unlikely to be reliable in the long run.  A horizontal fly-back booster powered by a combo of air-breathing engines for take off and cruising, and rocket engines for ascent to 2nd stage launch is probably the optimum, but winged fly-back booster (like Baikal concept) are the next best option, and will readily leverage off current technological progress on UAV and computerized autonomous flight controls.

    Zenit was wounded because of Ukropistani incompetence leading to poor reliability, and then killed outright by Maidan Nazi stupidity...

    Proton will be killed by FH?????  Proton will fly as long as Russia needs to launch heavy birds.  As long as Khrunichev can sort out their manufacturing, QA/QC and human error issues, they have plenty of scope for sharpening the pencil (Proton costs for federal payloads are a fraction of commercial ILS prices).

    ULA will be killed by Musk????  Sorry, but now you have outed yourself as a foolish fan-boi....

    Russia will develop a SHLV when they are ready, and in the great scheme of things, keeping up with grandiose US plans (that will come to naught due to the future machinations of the increasingly dsyfunctional Yankistani political system) is a fools crusade with no real-world payoff  Keep in mind that sending manned missions to Moon or Mars is nothing more than a giant PR exercise for geo-political purposes (forget the garbage about "science") and represent a colossal sink of badly needed resources.  Once the costs become clear, the Uh'Murican political whores will receive orders from Wall Street to pump cash into keeping the US Ponzi Scheme afloat at all costs, and interplanetary missions will be dumped....

    Now be off with you, and cease this endless vapid, puerile, Russo-phobic tirade and undisguised Musk-worship...

    I bet if Russia went to Mars first, it would cease being a giant PR exercise for you.

    russia russia russia

    What an impressive post there Banderoid. You must think you are a legend.

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    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion #2

    Post  kvs on Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:22 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    Rmf wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    What does SpaceX have to do with Russian space news?

    Trying to win the Spacerace which was lost over two decades ago.

    well they are beating russians in their own game, and thats whole point of spaceX , after 2000s and many cancelled programs in USA, after they started buying russian engines , Elon got some scientists and workers together and started spacex , their goal was to have engine with lowest cost per tonn of thrust , not best isp ,not high thrust or whatever, no records , nothing revolutionary (thus expencive), just get the cost down , that means no bueracracy , means simplicity ,many engines for easy mass production,and low weight, if it takes more fuel to launch its not a problem fuel today is 5% of total launch cost ....
    They have already killed zenit ,now they go after proton with falcon heavy , and with dragon capsule ready they will kill soyuz.

    Not only that they will kill ULA big american space conglomerate -lockheed and boeing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Launch_Alliance who held monopoly in USA. That forced ULA  to get their congresman to fund new super-heavy launcher, republican and democrat together  affraid , this launcher is amazingly protected from cancellation ,if anyone watched its own saga i personally was amazed how much funds its getting even more then Nasa demanded in certain years, it will be expencive but it will mean america can do thing in space russia cannot for decades ,if ever.

    FFS I've had enough of this constant spamming and BS....

    If Musk had access to better engines he would use them.  As it is, while the F9 is shaping up as good launcher, its nothing special (though mindless SpaceX groupie fan-boyz fiddling with themselves in moms basement might disagree). and his reuseabilty scheme is seriously limited and is unlikely to be reliable in the long run.  A horizontal fly-back booster powered by a combo of air-breathing engines for take off and cruising, and rocket engines for ascent to 2nd stage launch is probably the optimum, but winged fly-back booster (like Baikal concept) are the next best option, and will readily leverage off current technological progress on UAV and computerized autonomous flight controls.

    Zenit was wounded because of Ukropistani incompetence leading to poor reliability, and then killed outright by Maidan Nazi stupidity...

    Proton will be killed by FH?????  Proton will fly as long as Russia needs to launch heavy birds.  As long as Khrunichev can sort out their manufacturing, QA/QC and human error issues, they have plenty of scope for sharpening the pencil (Proton costs for federal payloads are a fraction of commercial ILS prices).

    ULA will be killed by Musk????  Sorry, but now you have outed yourself as a foolish fan-boi....

    Russia will develop a SHLV when they are ready, and in the great scheme of things, keeping up with grandiose US plans (that will come to naught due to the future machinations of the increasingly dsyfunctional Yankistani political system) is a fools crusade with no real-world payoff  Keep in mind that sending manned missions to Moon or Mars is nothing more than a giant PR exercise for geo-political purposes (forget the garbage about "science") and represent a colossal sink of badly needed resources.  Once the costs become clear, the Uh'Murican political whores will receive orders from Wall Street to pump cash into keeping the US Ponzi Scheme afloat at all costs, and interplanetary missions will be dumped....

    Now be off with you, and cease this endless vapid, puerile, Russo-phobic tirade and undisguised Musk-worship...

    Don't confuse him with facts such as the actual costs of a Proton launch as opposed to the creaming price set with ULA. Then we have
    the Proton replacement Angara being even cheaper to build and to launch than the Proton. Yep, Musk will be "teaching Russia lessons"
    for a long time.

    The premise of the Rmf post is beyond retarded. In his warped mind, competition means a last man standing situation, aka monopoly.

    Big_Gazza
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    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion #2

    Post  Big_Gazza on Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:55 am

    x_54_u43 wrote:
    Big_Gazza wrote:

    FFS I've had enough of this constant spamming and BS....

    If Musk had access to better engines he would use them.  As it is, while the F9 is shaping up as good launcher, its nothing special (though mindless SpaceX groupie fan-boyz fiddling with themselves in moms basement might disagree). and his reuseabilty scheme is seriously limited and is unlikely to be reliable in the long run.  A horizontal fly-back booster powered by a combo of air-breathing engines for take off and cruising, and rocket engines for ascent to 2nd stage launch is probably the optimum, but winged fly-back booster (like Baikal concept) are the next best option, and will readily leverage off current technological progress on UAV and computerized autonomous flight controls.

    Zenit was wounded because of Ukropistani incompetence leading to poor reliability, and then killed outright by Maidan Nazi stupidity...

    Proton will be killed by FH?????  Proton will fly as long as Russia needs to launch heavy birds.  As long as Khrunichev can sort out their manufacturing, QA/QC and human error issues, they have plenty of scope for sharpening the pencil (Proton costs for federal payloads are a fraction of commercial ILS prices).

    ULA will be killed by Musk????  Sorry, but now you have outed yourself as a foolish fan-boi....

    Russia will develop a SHLV when they are ready, and in the great scheme of things, keeping up with grandiose US plans (that will come to naught due to the future machinations of the increasingly dsyfunctional Yankistani political system) is a fools crusade with no real-world payoff  Keep in mind that sending manned missions to Moon or Mars is nothing more than a giant PR exercise for geo-political purposes (forget the garbage about "science") and represent a colossal sink of badly needed resources.  Once the costs become clear, the Uh'Murican political whores will receive orders from Wall Street to pump cash into keeping the US Ponzi Scheme afloat at all costs, and interplanetary missions will be dumped....

    Now be off with you, and cease this endless vapid, puerile, Russo-phobic tirade and undisguised Musk-worship...

    I bet if Russia went to Mars first, it would cease being a giant PR exercise for you.

    russia russia russia

    For the record, my opinion is that the only real value of manned mars exploration is to engender multi-national co-operation in an area that is high profile but neutral in impact in the global hard power balance. Going to Mars is simply too hard and too expensive for any one nation to do by itself. Its only an international effort that our species of somewhat-evolved primates will reach another planetary body to pillage and ruin, and that is for the best, as we have well and truly fucked up this 3rd rock from the sun with our incessant, child-like obsession with grabbing everything for ourselves and trying to put our boots on the necks of other peoples.

    Regarding Mars itself, that planet is quite frankly a useless piece of real estate. Mars is a useless little planet with nothing to offer. I don't see people rushing to colonise the Peruvian Atacama Desert, and that benighted bleak-scape is a tropical paradise compared to the Red Planet. I mean, just think about the foolishness of the endeavor. Setting up shop in a radiation/UV-soaked, freezing cold & nearly airless desert a few hundred million miles and 2 years away from any external help/supplies/spare parts, and where it costs several thousand dollars to get a single kilo of payload to low-earth orbit, let alone to Mars orbit. It costs approx $0.5B to get a robotic probe to Mars that weighs a few metric tons, so what price on a 30-40T manned vehicle that is just sufficient for a crew of 3-4 to survive the 9 month trip with minimal cargo capacity and a one-way only landing capsule?

    Final opinion - given the greedy selfish unfeeling clowns that infect our unaccountable Deep State Ruling Elite, this planet will eventually look like Mars - dead, barren, devoid of anything valuable, all used up and blown away. Rampant, insatiable, capitalistic selfishness will exhaust and destroy this planets biosphere just as surely as the solar wind and lack of a magnetosphere doomed Mars to its present fate. Actually, this is an amusing parallel. Mars was doomed due its small physical size. Similarly, Humankind may well be doomed because of the small size of our collective compassion in light of the Human capacity for greed, stupidity and selfishness.

    russia russia russia Who needs Mars when you have all of this... Very Happy

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    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion #2

    Post  Big_Gazza on Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:58 am

    kvs wrote:
    Don't confuse him with facts such as the actual costs of a Proton launch as opposed to the creaming price set with ULA.   Then we have
    the Proton replacement Angara being even cheaper to build and to launch than the Proton.  Yep, Musk will be "teaching Russia lessons"
    for a long time.  

    The premise of the Rmf post is beyond retarded.   In his warped mind, competition means a last man standing situation, aka monopoly.

    Agreed. Rmf seems to advocate a race to the bottom where everything is sacrificed on the Altar Of Musks Ego.

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    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion #2

    Post  OminousSpudd on Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:15 am

    x_54_u43 wrote:
    Big_Gazza wrote:

    FFS I've had enough of this constant spamming and BS....

    If Musk had access to better engines he would use them.  As it is, while the F9 is shaping up as good launcher, its nothing special (though mindless SpaceX groupie fan-boyz fiddling with themselves in moms basement might disagree). and his reuseabilty scheme is seriously limited and is unlikely to be reliable in the long run.  A horizontal fly-back booster powered by a combo of air-breathing engines for take off and cruising, and rocket engines for ascent to 2nd stage launch is probably the optimum, but winged fly-back booster (like Baikal concept) are the next best option, and will readily leverage off current technological progress on UAV and computerized autonomous flight controls.

    Zenit was wounded because of Ukropistani incompetence leading to poor reliability, and then killed outright by Maidan Nazi stupidity...

    Proton will be killed by FH?????  Proton will fly as long as Russia needs to launch heavy birds.  As long as Khrunichev can sort out their manufacturing, QA/QC and human error issues, they have plenty of scope for sharpening the pencil (Proton costs for federal payloads are a fraction of commercial ILS prices).

    ULA will be killed by Musk????  Sorry, but now you have outed yourself as a foolish fan-boi....

    Russia will develop a SHLV when they are ready, and in the great scheme of things, keeping up with grandiose US plans (that will come to naught due to the future machinations of the increasingly dsyfunctional Yankistani political system) is a fools crusade with no real-world payoff  Keep in mind that sending manned missions to Moon or Mars is nothing more than a giant PR exercise for geo-political purposes (forget the garbage about "science") and represent a colossal sink of badly needed resources.  Once the costs become clear, the Uh'Murican political whores will receive orders from Wall Street to pump cash into keeping the US Ponzi Scheme afloat at all costs, and interplanetary missions will be dumped....

    Now be off with you, and cease this endless vapid, puerile, Russo-phobic tirade and undisguised Musk-worship...

    I bet if Russia went to Mars first, it would cease being a giant PR exercise for you.

    russia russia russia

    And your infatuation with the American Mars project is because why exactly, Mr. Offended? Do you seriously consider it a legitimate program? That's just an exercise in naivety.

    Rmf
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    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion #2

    Post  Rmf on Sun Mar 13, 2016 12:34 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    kvs wrote:
    Don't confuse him with facts such as the actual costs of a Proton launch as opposed to the creaming price set with ULA.   Then we have
    the Proton replacement Angara being even cheaper to build and to launch than the Proton.  Yep, Musk will be "teaching Russia lessons"
    for a long time.  

    The premise of the Rmf post is beyond retarded.   In his warped mind, competition means a last man standing situation, aka monopoly.

    Agreed. Rmf seems to advocate a race to the bottom where everything is sacrificed on the Altar Of Musks Ego.  
    where and how did i advocate that??
    its interesting how its basically same whining from some fanboys here as was americans in 90s how their top line new modular launchers (delta ,atlas,...which by the way angara is copying) were commercialy losing to backward russian rockets designed in 60s.
    its same on both sides - denial ,passive agression, and rudeness.
    russian space program got a second chance, you dont get very often in life ,and squandered it...
    not going and seeing no reason to go to mars or anywhere in space just shows how limited these guys are.
    anyway exomars will launch in monday so hoping for the best.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUuJqXaCOWw

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    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion #2

    Post  GarryB on Sun Mar 13, 2016 3:18 am

    I bet if Russia went to Mars first, it would cease being a giant PR exercise for you.

    You mean like the first soft landing on Mars... the Mars-3 lander on December 2 1971?


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    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion #2

    Post  Big_Gazza on Sun Mar 13, 2016 3:57 am

    GarryB wrote:
    I bet if Russia went to Mars first, it would cease being a giant PR exercise for you.

    You mean like the first soft landing on Mars... the Mars-3 lander on December 2 1971?

    MRO images strongly suggests that Mars-3 landed sucessfully in 1971. The causes of the loss of transmission shortly after deployment have been debated since, but its been suggested that the fuel loss on the orbiter prevented it entering the correct orbit and it dropped below the horizon of the landing site as the prelim camera scan was being returned. Since the incorrect orbit didn't return the orbiter to the landing site for 14 days (instead of <24hrs) the landers batteries were long dead by that time. This is quite plausible as the radio link was redundant, and BOTH channels failed at precisiely the same time, which is what one would expect from the relay droping below local horizon.

    A pity really, but they did well to get that far at all given the rudimentary technology of the day (only 14 years after Sputnik).

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    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion #2

    Post  Big_Gazza on Sun Mar 13, 2016 4:02 am

    Rmf wrote:
    not going and seeing no reason to go to mars or anywhere in space just shows how limited these guys are.
    anyway exomars will launch in monday so hoping for the best.

    I never said that. Going to Mars as part of an international scientific effort (including all space faring nations such as US, Russia, China, EU, Japan and India, and with no-one nation (ie US) extolling Lordship over the joint venture) is a great idea to engender global co-operation. Colonising Mars simply because it is there (and because our Solar System has no other better prospects) is an astoundingly bad idea for the aforementioned reasons...

    Agree 100% on ExoMars. Finally something we see eye-to-eye on! Very Happy

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