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    Russia: Space News and Discussion #2

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    PapaDragon
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    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion #2

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Apr 29, 2016 2:43 pm


    ^^^ Thanks Kvs, that one is funny. Someone should PM it to Rmf, he is on my ignore list but I assume he is going trough 3 boxes of tampons a day lately. Razz


    Also, clarification of the delayed launch, rocket was fine but problem was with data cable. They replaced it and went ahead.

    http://russia-insider.com/en/science-tech/vostochny-cosmodrome-first-launch-eye-witness-account/ri14131

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    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion #2

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Apr 30, 2016 9:37 pm


    Amur region after Soyuz launch, first stage. Gotta say, it took the fall like a pro given the altitude. I think I can see set of airbags and a parachute in a not too distant future. Very Happy




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    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion #2

    Post  kvs on Sat Apr 30, 2016 10:02 pm

    Indeed. They could recover most of the key parts if they parachuted them with some initial retro-rocket assist in the thinner
    layers of the atmosphere.

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    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion #2

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Apr 30, 2016 10:08 pm

    kvs wrote:Indeed.  They could recover most of the key parts if they parachuted them with some initial retro-rocket assist in the thinner
    layers of the atmosphere.

    Yup, the most valuable part is engine itself so that would simplify whole thing even more.

    Although I think that retrieval will be reserved for Angara, Soyuz is pretty much el-cheapo by rocket standards.

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    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion #2

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun May 01, 2016 5:22 pm


    Speaking of retrieval, if they are really that keen on reusing the whole booster they might go with installing parachute on top that would bring it back just above ground and combine it with rocket engines also installed on the top, like the escape system on the Soyuz capsule.

    Before it hits the ground engine activates and brings whole thing to a soft touchdown and because it is on top of the rocket instead on the bottom it makes the whole thing very stable from the get go and removes the need for stabilization engines like on other systems. This would work very nice on Angara 5 because top part of the 4 stage 1 boosters is already unused empty space.

    Basically same approach they plan on using on Federation (PTK-NP) down the road.

    But I still think it would be simpler to just focus on retrieving the engines. Parachute and airbags both attached on the bottom part would do. Get the engines and let rest of it crash on impact. It's mostly just fuel tanks, no big deal.

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    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion #2

    Post  Rmf on Sun May 01, 2016 11:20 pm

    its impossible to use land way unlike kazakh grasslands this is pure wilderness and heavy forest. it will be cut up and transported with helicopter to nearest road.

    if you could use paraglider for controled landing and small landing gear ,that would be much better then any parashute.

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    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion #2

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon May 02, 2016 2:29 pm

    Rmf wrote:its impossible to use land way unlike kazakh grasslands this is pure wilderness and heavy forest. it will be cut up and transported with helicopter to nearest road.
    https://servimg.com/view/19063838/10][img]https://i86.servimg.com/u/f86/19/06/38/38/iqqdxw10.jpg
    if you could use paraglider for controled landing and small landing gear ,that would be much better then any parashute.

    Those things do not fall at random, trajectory is known in advance.

    If they need empty space they can just clear out section of a forest. As for transport, that is what helicopters are for. Or trucks. Its is Siberia not Antarctica. Definitely looks more accessible than some Kazakh shithole.

    Kazakhstan is old news, Baikonur is slowly but surely headed for decommissioning. Borat cannot into space, deal with it already.

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    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion #2

    Post  GarryB on Tue May 03, 2016 6:00 am

    The reusable components on the US Space Shuttle are the main bits that make the whole venture so freaken expensive.

    Reusable doesn't make sense if it is cheaper to make things simpler and single use only.

    Having to scour the countryside looking for components to recover and then completely take to bits and test and then reassemble is not easy or cheap or efficient.


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    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion #2

    Post  Rmf on Tue May 03, 2016 12:21 pm

    kazahstan is civilisation comared to that mountains and taiga in the midle of nowhere.
    thats why i think a wing ,or if you use paraglider it gives a controlled landing like a wing with benefit of a parashute ,you can glide to the launch site which is very important.

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    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion #2

    Post  GarryB on Wed May 04, 2016 9:17 am

    That is not a bad idea... the ability to make it controlable and able to land back in a particular area... and actually land rather than just fall could increase weight and complexity but greatly improve reusability.

    Of course it would still need to be taken apart and examined carefully before reuse so it is not going to save an enormous amount... but as technology improves the eventual goal will be scramjet motors to the edge of the atmosphere and rockets beyond with the scramjet launch platform then landing and refuelling ready for a new mission.


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    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion #2

    Post  Big_Gazza on Thu May 05, 2016 1:49 pm

    The Baikal concept is my idea of a practical booster return system.  A modified URM-1 module with a swing wing, a small air-breathing engine and UAV controls to provide cross-range capability to allow flight to a recovery airstrip.  If the engine module could be made easily decoupled by bolted structural sections, graylock couplings for piping connections and plug-in electrical connectors for controls & instrument loops, the Baikal could be rapidly turned around by fitting a new engine and full systems retesting before going back into the inventory.  The disconnected engine module then goes to refurb for inspection, boroscope checks, clean-up/de-coking and a test burn before going back into the pool.

    SpaceX has persisted with their powered stack descent and tripod landing, and have managed to land on a marine barge (an impressive achievement), but I still don't like the concept. Its too hit or miss, and a failed landing scraps the whole stack. I'm also not convinced that a powered vertical ascent isn't a lot of thermal strain on the engine bay. I'd much rather a UAV-style return and aircraft landing, as its gentler on the hardware and is far more fault-tolerant (depending on fuel supply, you can stack the cores in a holding pattern while you bring them home).

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    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion #2

    Post  Vann7 on Tue May 10, 2016 11:44 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:The Baikal concept is my idea of a practical booster return system.  A modified URM-1 module with a swing wing, a small air-breathing engine and UAV controls to provide cross-range capability to allow flight to a recovery airstrip.  If the engine module could be made easily decoupled by bolted structural sections, graylock couplings for piping connections and plug-in electrical connectors for controls & instrument loops, the Baikal could be rapidly turned around by fitting a new engine and full systems retesting before going back into the inventory.  The disconnected engine module then goes to refurb for inspection, boroscope checks, clean-up/de-coking and a test burn before going back into the pool.

    SpaceX has persisted with their powered stack descent and tripod landing, and have managed to land on a marine barge (an impressive achievement), but I still don't like the concept.  Its too hit or miss, and a failed landing scraps the whole stack.  I'm also not convinced that a powered vertical ascent isn't a lot of thermal strain on the engine bay.  I'd much rather a UAV-style return and aircraft landing, as its gentler on the hardware and is far more fault-tolerant (depending on fuel supply, you can stack the cores in a holding pattern while you bring them home).

    there reverse landing could proof to be invaluable for reverse landing in surfaces like moon or mars. if you deploy first the pad for landing.

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    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion #2

    Post  Big_Gazza on Tue May 10, 2016 4:20 pm

    Vann7 wrote:
    Big_Gazza wrote:The Baikal concept is my idea of a practical booster return system.  A modified URM-1 module with a swing wing, a small air-breathing engine and UAV controls to provide cross-range capability to allow flight to a recovery airstrip.  If the engine module could be made easily decoupled by bolted structural sections, graylock couplings for piping connections and plug-in electrical connectors for controls & instrument loops, the Baikal could be rapidly turned around by fitting a new engine and full systems retesting before going back into the inventory.  The disconnected engine module then goes to refurb for inspection, boroscope checks, clean-up/de-coking and a test burn before going back into the pool.

    SpaceX has persisted with their powered stack descent and tripod landing, and have managed to land on a marine barge (an impressive achievement), but I still don't like the concept.  Its too hit or miss, and a failed landing scraps the whole stack.  I'm also not convinced that a powered vertical ascent isn't a lot of thermal strain on the engine bay.  I'd much rather a UAV-style return and aircraft landing, as its gentler on the hardware and is far more fault-tolerant (depending on fuel supply, you can stack the cores in a holding pattern while you bring them home).

    there reverse landing could proof to be invaluable for reverse landing in surfaces like moon or mars. if you deploy first the pad for landing.

    Rocket powered descent is a tried and tested techology for lunar landings - Surveyor, Apollo, Lunokhod, Luna Sample Return, Chang'e 3.  Its been done on Mars as well with the Vikings and Phoenix, and the sky-crane used with Curiosity rover.

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    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion #2

    Post  George1 on Thu May 19, 2016 3:07 pm

    First rocket launch from Vostochny was postponed due to cable design flaw

    More:
    http://tass.ru/en/science/876703


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    A competition to Federatsia?

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun May 29, 2016 1:54 pm

    A competition to Federatsia?


    In RSC "Energia" reported the ship to fly to the moon

    https://news.rambler.ru/30233437/
    http://vz.ru/news/2015/5/15/745519.html?isasa

    Development of conceptual and technical projects of advanced manned transport system (PCA), designed to replace the ships the ships "Union TMA" and "Progress M" and be used for missions to the moon, completed, reported in the Rocket-space Corporation (RKK) "Energy".

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    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion #2

    Post  kvs on Sun May 29, 2016 8:36 pm

    http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Russia_to_Create_New_Powerful_Plasma_Rocket_Engine_999.html

    Russia to Create New Powerful Plasma Rocket Engine

    A Russian rocket engine company, with the assistance of a major research and development institute, will work on a project to create a powerful electrodeless plasma rocket engine, Russia's Roscosmos space corporation said Wednesday.

    The project will be developed by the Kurchatov Institute, Russia's leading research and development institution in the field of nuclear energy, and the Chemical Automatics Design Bureau (CADB).

    "The project involves the development of a new-generation electrodeless plasma engine. It is a high-power engine using fuel in a plasma state. It has a high energy efficiency, an ability to use almost any kind of rocket fuel... and its maximum engine power is limited only by the power supply of a high-frequency generator," Roscosmos said in a statement.

    According to Roscosmos, the implementation of the ideas incorporated in the proposed project became possible due to the advance made in the study of plasma fusion process, in the development of high-temperature superconducting technology and modern electronic components of high-frequency generators.

    All the idiots who think fusion research is a waste of time can go shove their worthless luddite opinions where the sun don't shine.

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    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion #2

    Post  Rmf on Mon May 30, 2016 7:34 pm

    fusion doesnt work here on earth with no weight limitations and power requirements , yet alone in space ... ha ha ha
    why do they spew this b.s. and why do people fall for it is beyond me... power is main obstacle to any space propulsion not the type of propulsion, and somehow many just say meh its nothing...
    imagine nuclear submarine pulling all the water going trough propeller behind it (as reaction mass). it would get nowhere. once you add reaction mass ,cooling mass , generator mass, it just piles up and youre stuck...
    correction of orbits or accelerating very small probes for years using solar panels is one thing but this is stupid.

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    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion #2

    Post  OminousSpudd on Mon May 30, 2016 8:39 pm

    Won't quote you RMF because I know you're probably on everyone's ignore list by now. But you do know that the nation who's R&D you idolize so much has been putting ridiculous amounts of money into the creation of fusion type reactors and power sources, right? So much so in-fact that LM has come out and made the ridiculous claim that they will have an operational Cold Fusion reactor by ~2020 or thereabouts. But hey, two sets of rules for two different nations am I right? I'm sure you think what they're doing is fantastic and has massive potential.

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    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion #2

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon May 30, 2016 9:46 pm

    OminousSpudd wrote:Won't quote you RMF because I know you're probably on everyone's ignore list by now. But you do know that the nation who's R&D you idolize so much has been putting ridiculous amounts of money into the creation of fusion type reactors and power sources, right? So much so in-fact that LM has come out and made the ridiculous claim that they will have an operational Cold Fusion reactor by ~2020 or thereabouts. But hey, two sets of rules for two different nations am I right? I'm sure you think what they're doing is fantastic and has massive potential.

    Most probably Russians found the way to overcome VASIMR negatives, Then those 39 days to Mars seems to be in line what NASA was claiming. Maybe thermoelectric reactor to provide with electrical energy?

    anyway then mission on Moon - cheaper transport there and back, and to Mars or maybe jupiter can be possible...

    and talking about plasma:

    In Russia plan to launch the world's most powerful laser installation


    MOSCOW, may 30 — RIA Novosti. First world's most powerful laser system the UV-2M will launch in Sarov (Nizhny Novgorod region) at the end of 2017, said Director of the Russian Federal nuclear center — all-Russian research Institute of experimental physics (Sarov) Valentin Kostyukov on the forum "ATOMEXPO-2016".


    Construction is on schedule, created at the same time the technological equipment, he said.
    According to Kostyukova, 95% in the laser unit will be used Russian technology.
    Laser system of new generation intended for fundamental research in physics of high energy densities, including the use of laser thermonuclear fusion energy. The UV-2M will have a dual purpose, one of which is military. Experiments in the physics of hot dense plasma and high energy density, which are held on this kind of installations can be focused on the creation of thermonuclear weapons. The second direction and energy. Laser nuclear fusion can be used to develop energy of the future.
    At a meeting of the scientific and technical Council of the nuclear weapons complex of Rosatom, the developers of the installation noted that the creation of the UV-2M is important for research into new energy sources, explore states of matter, experiments for modeling and designing of new types of nuclear weapons


    РИА Новости http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20160530/1440663584.html#ixzz4AAYN4xyY

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    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion #2

    Post  GarryB on Tue May 31, 2016 9:26 am

    Yeah, fusion does not work on earth... I guess all those bombs that use hydrogen are not real...


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    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion #2

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Tue May 31, 2016 10:21 am

    GarryB wrote:Yeah, fusion does not work on earth... I guess all those bombs that use hydrogen are not real...

    ekhm this laser is on Earth Shocked

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    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion #2

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jun 01, 2016 10:47 am

    ekhm this laser is on Earth

    I know... and fusion bombs set off by fisson triggers also have been set off on earth and underground...


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    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion #2

    Post  George1 on Sat Jun 04, 2016 4:52 pm

    Rockot rumbles off from Russia, carrying GEO-IK Geodesy Satellite

    http://spaceflight101.com/rockot-geo-ik-2-no-2-launch/


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    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion #2

    Post  Austin on Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:49 am

    ILS PROTON SUCCESSFULLY LAUNCHES THE INTELSAT 31 SATELLITE


    Peter B. de Selding @pbdes 12:31 AM - 9 Jun 2016

    Today's Proton launch is 1st for the vehicle's Phase 4 upgraded version, which adds 150 kg to Proton's performance to GTO.

    Peter B. de Selding @pbdes 12:33 AM - 9 Jun 2016

    ILS VP John Palme: Proton Phase 4 upgrade = lighter-weight, high-strength metallic structures & high-precision tooling for optimized design.

    Peter B. de Selding ‏@pbdes 12:37 AM - 9 Jun 2016

    Why upgrade Proton w/ new-generation Angara family waiting in wings? Because Proton rocket'll remain active for another decade, ILS says.

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    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion #2

    Post  kvs on Thu Jun 16, 2016 10:45 pm

    http://www.angstrem.ru/angstrem-group/pressa/news/news_164.html

    Russia will manufacture space-hardened electronics for India's space program.

    Some claim Russia has no such capacity or capability. Underestimating Russia is some sort of pandemic.

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    Re: Russia: Space News and Discussion #2

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