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    Chengdu J-20 Stealth Fighter

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    GarryB
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    Re: Chengdu J-20 Stealth Fighter

    Post  GarryB on Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:02 am

    Actually I was thinking it looks more like the Mig MFI competitor 1.44/1.42.

    We never actually saw the stealthy version, we only saw the aerodynamic version:







    To me it looks like they have taken the Mig layout and applied it to an F-22 body and nose shape...

    There is plenty of speculation that Mig assisted the Chinese in the design, but I am sceptical.

    If Mig was in a joint venture developing a new 5th gen fighter with China then I would expect to hear about it.

    Perhaps they are selling their old technology to fund their new 5th gen fighter design program?

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    Re: Chengdu J-20 Stealth Fighter

    Post  George1 on Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:13 am

    Some observers indicate that J-20 is a medium bomber not a fighter. Any info on that?

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    Re: Chengdu J-20 Stealth Fighter

    Post  GarryB on Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:01 am

    I would expect any proper 5th gen fighter would be able to deliver weapons to ground targets effectively too.

    It is too small to carry a significant payload internally like a B-2, though of course the Chinese would not really want something that big with that sort of range... or that cost.

    It doesn't look particularly big, and certainly a large weapon bay for significant internal payloads might give the impression it is a strike aircraft rather than a fighter.

    The thing is that the engines are probably quite large, so I think it might be bigger because it has extra internal fuel because I think the engines are just plain Al-31s.

    The placement of the engines close together will certainly limit internal weapon bay size.

    I rather suspect they have the engines at the rear close together and a weapon bay in front just behind the cockpit.

    The canards are probably there to add lift near the front of the aircraft that will allow for weight added and removed from the weapons bays (as weapons are used) and fuel is burned/transferred around the aircraft.

    Should be interesting to see what results.

    Note the Mig-1.44 and 1.42 are supposedly different looking aircraft, with one of them revealed to the public with a nose area looking very much like a Mig-29 IMHO, but we never saw the stealthy version.

    The chase plane in the video that is the topic of this thread ironically looks like the E-8, which was a test version of a Mig-21... single engine, delta wing, same square undernose air intakes and single tail fin...

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    More Pictures

    Post  Chrisa on Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:45 am




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    Re: Chengdu J-20 Stealth Fighter

    Post  SOC on Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:07 am

    George1 wrote:Some observers indicate that J-20 is a medium bomber not a fighter. Any info on that?

    They're trying to make it out to be yet another Chinese threat to US CVBGs to justify further defense spending to thwart those pesky Chinamen.

    GarryB wrote:It doesn't look particularly big, and certainly a large weapon bay for significant internal payloads might give the impression it is a strike aircraft rather than a fighter.

    It damn sure isn't small. This thing is about 65-70 feet long.

    GarryB wrote:I rather suspect they have the engines at the rear close together and a weapon bay in front just behind the cockpit.

    They've got a pretty substantial ventral bay, and side-mounted bays in the intakes like you find on the F-22.

    GarryB wrote:Note the Mig-1.44 and 1.42 are supposedly different looking aircraft, with one of them revealed to the public with a nose area looking very much like a Mig-29 IMHO, but we never saw the stealthy version.

    The 1.42 (allegedly) had a cranked-arrow wing, a redesigned intake, and was a bit more LO optimised. The forward fuselage also got reprofiled. The ejection seat testbed seen at Faustino is purported to be closer to the 1.42 than the 1.44. Plus, it is believed that 1.42-designed canards made it onto the 1.44 demonstrator, hence the appearance of mismatched parts.

    GarryB wrote:The chase plane in the video that is the topic of this thread ironically looks like the E-8, which was a test version of a Mig-21... single engine, delta wing, same square undernose air intakes and single tail fin...

    That'd be a Chengdu J-10, China's new-ish 4th Generation multirole fighter. Tons of them in service at this point.

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    Re: Chengdu J-20 Stealth Fighter

    Post  George1 on Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:52 am

    J-20 reminds me Firefox (film) MiG-31 fictional aircraft

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    Re: Chengdu J-20 Stealth Fighter

    Post  George1 on Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:01 am


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    Re: Chengdu J-20 Stealth Fighter

    Post  George1 on Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:02 am

    Chinese are experts in copying even the cinema fighters Smile))

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    LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!

    Post  Chrisa on Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:12 pm

    LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    Re: Chengdu J-20 Stealth Fighter

    Post  Firebird on Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:12 pm




    George1 wrote:Chinese are experts in copying even the cinema fighters Smile))

    I bet their R&D office has a bit in common with the film Galaxy Quest.
    Maybe someone can convince them they should copy the DeathStar from Star Wars. lol[/quote]

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    Re: Chengdu J-20 Stealth Fighter

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Tue Sep 04, 2012 3:57 pm

    After the russian civil war the soviet union was many decades behind britain, france and USA yet by the 1930s they had better land forces and to some extent air forces than both of them and only their navy lagged behind.

    China is in the same situation as the USSR in the 20s and 30s and now it is more rapidly growing than the soviet union ever was so it would be fair to assume that by 2020 they will have a fighting force a little weaker than USA and on a par with russia.

    many people say that chinese cant innovate but look at the DF-21 it has no equivalent in the world and and the most powerful amphibious tank in the world, the type 63A.

    BTW most of the criticisms of the J-20 can be easily fixed by 10 year.s

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    Re: Chengdu J-20 Stealth Fighter

    Post  TR1 on Tue Sep 04, 2012 10:42 pm

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:After the russian civil war the soviet union was many decades behind britain, france and USA yet by the 1930s they had better land forces and to some extent air forces than both of them and only their navy lagged behind.

    China is in the same situation as the USSR in the 20s and 30s and now it is more rapidly growing than the soviet union ever was so it would be fair to assume that by 2020 they will have a fighting force a little weaker than USA and on a par with russia.

    many people say that chinese cant innovate but look at the DF-21 it has no equivalent in the world and and the most powerful amphibious tank in the world, the type 63A.

    BTW most of the criticisms of the J-20 can be easily fixed by 10 year.s

    Soviet Union had an equivalent back in like the 70s.

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    Re: Chengdu J-20 Stealth Fighter

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Tue Sep 04, 2012 11:45 pm

    TR1 wrote:
    KomissarBojanchev wrote:After the russian civil war the soviet union was many decades behind britain, france and USA yet by the 1930s they had better land forces and to some extent air forces than both of them and only their navy lagged behind.

    China is in the same situation as the USSR in the 20s and 30s and now it is more rapidly growing than the soviet union ever was so it would be fair to assume that by 2020 they will have a fighting force a little weaker than USA and on a par with russia.

    many people say that chinese cant innovate but look at the DF-21 it has no equivalent in the world and and the most powerful amphibious tank in the world, the type 63A.

    BTW most of the criticisms of the J-20 can be easily fixed by 10 year.s

    Soviet Union had an equivalent back in like the 70s.

    tell me which ballistic missile could target aircraft carriers?

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    Re: Chengdu J-20 Stealth Fighter

    Post  TR1 on Tue Sep 04, 2012 11:49 pm

    R-27K.

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    Re: Chengdu J-20 Stealth Fighter

    Post  Zivo on Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:39 pm

    It seems China's got a second 5th gen fighter. No details yet, just pics.







    In transit.




    Something about this aircraft looks awfully familiar, but I just cant put my finger on it. Rolling Eyes

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    Re: Chengdu J-20 Stealth Fighter

    Post  TR1 on Sun Sep 16, 2012 9:56 pm

    Ok, love it or hate it, the J-20 was actually interesting.

    This is the most boring "new" fighter ever.
    I hesitate to give it a "stealth" monicker anyways, since none of its characteristics are known, aside from using RD-33 clearly Wink.

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    Re: Chengdu J-20 Stealth Fighter

    Post  Zivo on Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:52 am

    No doubt, it's incredibly generic. Laughing

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    Re: Chengdu J-20 Stealth Fighter

    Post  TR1 on Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:13 am

    Zivo wrote:No doubt, it's incredibly generic. Laughing

    It's like they tried to make the McDonalds of fighters.

    Take a Rafale, paint it black, looks more futuristic and stealth to me.

    http://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/1/6/5/a3679719-11-Rafale-black-LeBreuget.jpg?d=1293133525

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    Re: Chengdu J-20 Stealth Fighter

    Post  Cyberspec on Sun Jun 23, 2013 12:28 pm

    Well, the US Navy seems to take them seriously enough...


    Here’s How the Navy Plans to Shoot Down High-Tech Chinese Jets
    https://medium.com/war-is-boring/5b1dfc2511bd

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    Re: Chengdu J-20 Stealth Fighter

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:30 pm

    J-31 take off and landing:




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    Re: Chengdu J-20 Stealth Fighter

    Post  George1 on Mon Aug 04, 2014 7:46 pm

    Fourth known J-20 prototype makes first flight

    The fourth prototype, with the tail number '2012', has the same design modifications as the third prototype. Source: via Top 81 web page

    The fourth known prototype of the Chengdu Aircraft Corporation (CAC) J-20 fifth-generation fighter made its first flight on the morning of 26 July, according to Chinese aviation websites.

    The fourth known prototype of the J-20 fighter made its first flight on 26 July. (via Top 81 web page)The fourth known prototype of the J-20 fighter made its first flight on 26 July. (via Top 81 web page)

    According to online postings by local spotters, the prototype flew for nearly two hours after having undertaken taxi tests since early July. The first hints on military web forums of a fourth J-20 prototype with the tail number '2012' emerged in late June, with clear photos emerging by mid-July.

    Images show that '2012' features the refinements first seen in the third prototype, '2011'. These include an undernose faceted shape to hold a future electro-optical targeting system, adjusted air intakes to aid engine air flow and clipped tips on the vertical stabilizers.

    The new J-20 prototype does not give any outward indication that CAC has installed an indigenous turbofan engine, despite much online speculation. The status of the J-20's intended WS-15 turbofan is not clear, and it is possible that initially deployed J-20s may use a Russian-made turbofan, perhaps an upgraded version of the Saturn AL-31 or the newer AL-117S.

    In mid-June prototype 2011 reportedly left the CAC airfield to join its two other stablemates at the China Flight Test Establishment (CFTE) at Yanliang Airbase in Xian Province.

    In late April an Asian government source told IHS Jane's that 20 J-20s, or about one regiment, could be deployed by 2020.

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    Re: Chengdu J-20 Stealth Fighter

    Post  GarryB on Tue Aug 05, 2014 5:34 am

    many people say that chinese cant innovate but look at the DF-21 it has no equivalent in the world and and the most powerful amphibious tank in the world, the type 63A.


    Sorry... what?

    The Type 63A is just a Type 63 with a 105mm gun and the Type 63 is just a PT-76 with an 85mm gun.

    How are any of these vehicles more powerful than Sprut with its 125mm gun?


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    China's 5G Fighter Could Be A Game Changer In An Increasingly Tense E.Asia

    Post  nemrod on Fri Aug 22, 2014 2:47 pm

    And the SU-35 ?


    China's Fifth-Generation Fighter Could Be A Game Changer In An Increasingly Tense East Asia

    Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/chengdu-j-20-could-be-a-game-changer-in-asia-2014-8#ixzz3B7mDHLrq


    China is in the process of developing its own native fifth-generation fighter to compete with the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, and Russia's T-50.

    Although China has been secretive about the exact specifications of the aircraft, experts are warning that the plane could be a game-changer in East Asia's potentially fragile security environment.

    China's Chengdu J-20 is currently in its fourth round of prototypes. On July 26, the most recent version of the fighter flew for two hours before successfully landing.

    Information about the J-20 is limited, but an unnamed Asian government source told IHS Jane's that upwards of 20 J-20s could be deployed by within the decade.

    The J-20 has evolved rapidly from its first documented prototype in 2011. Each successive prototype has shown a number of design advancements that help the plane evade enemy radar detection. These changes include modifying the plane's wing size and adjusting the air intakes to maximize stealth.

    It's likely that China is also outfitting the J-20 with an active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar in the plane's nose.

    AESAs are incredibly powerful radar systems broadcast at a range of frequencies, allowing a plane to remain stealthy in the process. And the use of the AESA in the J-20's nose marks a striking similarity to the design of the U.S.'s F-35 fifth-generation fighter.

    The similarities between the F-35, the F-22, and the J-20 are likely not a coincidence.

    Aviation expert Carlo Kopp notes that China imitates the basic shapes and skeletal designs of existing aircraft to speed development while minimizing the risk of a costly and embarrassing engineering failure later on.

    "By cleverly exploiting contemporary United States-developed stealth fighter shaping design rules," Kopp writes for the independent Australian think tank Air Power Australia, "Chengdu engineers were able to rapidly get an excellent basic shaping design with a minimum of risk and cost, and significant long-term stealth performance growth potential."

    This potential, if China capitalizes on it, could allow the J-20 to achieve levels of stealth on par with, or even exceeding, the F-35.

    This stealth capability could put all of East Asia at risk — the integrated air defense systems in the region rely primarily on types of radar that would be incapable of adequately detecting the J-20.

    China would have undisputed first-strike superiority throughout a region where tensions are on the rise. Exact details of the aircraft's

    fuel capacity and range are unknown, but estimates give the J-20 a striking range of 1,000 nautical miles, which would place Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese and Philippines airfields within reach of China.

    And China has simmering economic and territorial disputes with each of these countries.

    China's J-20 has likely also benefited from Chinese espionage.

    A Chinese entrepreneur was arrested in July after stealing gigabytes of data related to the F-35 and the F-22, along with other U.S. military aviation projects. Previous extensive theft of F-35 data is believed to be the driver of a number of redesigns to the J-20 and the cause of the aircraft's improvements within each prototype stage.

    However, China is still believed to be a long way from developing a native engine system for the plane.

    Engines are "the long pole in the tent," Reuben F. Johnson, a Russian and Chinese military aerospace analysts who writes for Jane's, told The Diplomat. Until China develops its own engines, it is limited to using Russian imports.

    Ultimately, the overall quality of a plane is just one factor in the aircraft's effectiveness, David Cenciotti, a military aviation expert and founder of The Aviationist, told Business Insider via email.

    "We don't know much about the [J-20], but it is safe to say it's not always a matter of technology, armament or on-board equipment," Cenciotti wrote. "Theoretically, the J-20 will be able to match Western fifth-gen fighters in a one vs one confrontation, but a realistic engagement with airborne early warning and emissions control procedures would be something much different[.]"

    And, as Cenciotti warns, training and logistics may be the most important factor. And if China can get that right, they'll have a fighter plane that can overcome their rivals' existing air defenses, and even match the over trillion-dollar F-35.


    Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/chengdu-j-20-could-be-a-game-changer-in-asia-2014-8#ixzz3B7mYdaBn

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    Re: Chengdu J-20 Stealth Fighter

    Post  Mike E on Fri Aug 22, 2014 8:03 pm

    Are they actually going to sell the SU-35 to China? I thought that sort of was "downgraded" to "smoke"...

    Of course BI would never mention anything good about a Russian plane...

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    Re: Chengdu J-20 Stealth Fighter

    Post  GarryB on Sat Aug 23, 2014 11:06 am

    the Russian Su-35 will have avionics comparable to those fitted to PAK FA, but the equipment and systems fitted to those exported will be different.


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